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@IronStylus, regarding the community beta...

Hellioning··83 votes·10,237 views

I still think your responses to this thread were insulting and condescending. I understand that you prefer these boards and would much rather have discussion on them, but you have to understand that not everyone shares your views, and it seems incredibly rude of you to simply shut down a discussion before it even began by simply stating 'let's move this to a forum I'm more comfortable with' before it even began.

I admit, I'm biased. I dislike these forums. Some of it can be excused by the fact it's a beta, for example, the fact that people's avatars/flairs/whatever can stay on the screen until you mouse over them again. Others are simply because of what I believe is going to happen: minority opinions, of which I share several, are going to be suppressed by the downvote system, while every thread descends into circle jerking over agreeing/disagreeing with the OP. There are, however, problems that I see on this site right now that I don't think will change. I dislike how hard it is to find the new posts (the 'new' button gives you all the new posts, yes, but I don't know the context of those posts unless I specifically click another button to lead me to the context for that post, and I have to do that for every post.) I dislike how annoying the red tracker can be; me clicking the right arrow in GD's red tracker leads me either further down the current page or to a later page, while with the red tracker in the community beta, clicking the right arrow gives me a very truncated version of the message, and I have to click another button to zoom to it, which might make me move up or down the page, depending on how upvoted the comment they replied to was.

I dislike using this forum, and holding a discussion hostage like you did gives me a bad taste in my mouth. And if parrot doesn't respond, well, take some site feedback.

EDIT: Another issue I have, which is happened when I go to the 'new' button on the Caitlyn thread; it doesn't mark the new posts as 'unread' until I see them in the main thread. If I just check the 'new' button every few posts, I still see a bunch of posts I've already seen because they weren't marked as 'read', so even though it only says I have 2 new messages, I still see, like, 10.

120 Comments

RiotIronStylus39 votes

I hear you, but look at that thread now, you can see exactly why I didn't want to stick around, and I feel that any perceived disrespect you saw from me was met with a hyperbolic amount of disrespect from a number of posters.

If it left a bad taste in your mouth, I apologize, however I don't really have the energy to deal with the sort of lashing out which that thread is now full of.

Give your feedback to the dev team and they'll have a look. As I've said, there are more features in the works to hopefully help with ease of navigation and consumption. We'll see.

Until then, depending on the topic, I may or may not move it over here if it's something I want to track a particular way. This is really just about players being able to get their feedback directly to us without certain obstacles such as ease of navigation, toxic behavior, or other aspects getting in the way.

It's really easy to vent over in GD, but it's sometimes impossible to have a conversation which results in feedback that's able to be parsed.

SlumlordThanatos32 votes

I hear you, but look at that thread now, you can see exactly why I didn't want to stick around, and I feel that any perceived disrespect you saw from me was met with a hyperbolic amount of disrespect from a number of posters.

You're the one who brought it about, though.

Surely you have figured out by now how much people on GD (including myself) despises the Community site. Talking about how you want to move the discussion over here and then refusing to talk about it on GD is only going to make us angry. Hence, the "hyperbolic amount of disrespect."

All you're doing to the discussion is annoying people who prefer GD, and moving the discussion to a platform where there can be less conversation about it. There may be less toxicity, but also fewer people who are willing to discuss it.

The uproar in the GD thread was your doing.

RiotIronStylus45 votes

I asked to move the conversation to a venue where I could more easily track it.

The first comment after I asked:

"Sorry, but if I wanted to go to Reddit, I'll just go to Reddit

Thanks though"

The second:

"I'd rather she didn't if IronStylus were put in charge of it. I feel as though he'd ruin her."

After I mentioned one of the above people would be missing out, and someone replying to the comment directly above:

"I agree.

She wants to make her more steampunk...

Gross."

This isn't productive, sorry, and it just keeps going. I said why this was a good venue, I stated that it was easier for me to track, and we just had a decent discussion about Sion on here anyway.

I realize certain people don't like the new format. But I also realize a lot of people do like it, or at least want to try it, because the new Caitlyn thread has ~100 comments on it, all of which are actually perfectly polite and I can respond to every single one of them.

I asked for a favor, for the discussion to move over here so I could follow it better and so players could suggest feedback that they could then collectively vote to the top. That request was met with negativity. I was not aiming to exclude, there's a thread of 450,000 views about general relaunch info that's wrapping up in GD. I am not excluding anyone from the discussion, I'm asking that they help me out with giving me their feedback in a way that I can take action on and track properly.

What's interesting, is this very thread, in this venue, has allowed me to keep up with this conversation very easily. This is all critical feedback you're giving me, but I'm still addressing it. You're not being rude, you're being sensible, and you therefore deserve to be treated likewise. That tone and consistency is very hard to maintain in GD.

Hellioning40 votes

First off, I must note that you did not ask them to move the discussion to a venue in which it would be more easily tracked. You said that it would be a BETTER way to do this discussion, and then said you're working with the beta team. You also asked the OP to make that thread, something that they may or may not have wanted to do. It is very easy to take that as 'I don't like this format and will not discuss it unless you change it'. At the very least, that's how I took it. You didn't really explain yourself until the second to last post you made in that thread, as the second was your response that sounded like 'if you're not playing by my rules you're not getting anything' to me and the third and fourth were you defending yourself to trolls. By that point, it's too late.

I should also point out that the thread was incredibly civil until you made that post. There was a bad post, the first response really, but that got downvoted swiftly. The rest were generally either ideas as to what the cait rework should be like, people expressing their opinion that cait was fine, a few people saying that several other champions has more pressing need of a VU than Cait (which might be off topic) and a healthy debate between Glados and AnonTwo as to whether Cait should have pants or not.

For example: 'IronStylus would have a field day with caitlyn.

All I ask for, oh great parrot from the heavens, is that you keep her hat mostly in tact. The zoom coming down when she ults is so sexy, I love it. It's the most iconic thing about caitlyn.'

'I'm honestly surprised IronStylus hasn't tackled her already. I mean, it's clear that Cait doesn't give off the vibe that she should. This is a great injustice.'

I should point out that you shouldn't use the numbers on the Cait thread as a baseline as to what the community beta is. The only reason a lot of those people are on this forum is because you made it clear you would be responding there. I think the second highest post in this forum is that poro skin syndra thread, and that's only being made because the original poster was from EUNE and apparently Rioters never post there, so they want more recognition and traffic from this site.

And again, you never made it clear that you wanted the discussion to come over here so you could track it properly. You made it sound like you wanted it to come over here because you just didn't like how traditional forums work.

I feel the fact we're having this conversation civilly doesn't mean much. It isn't because we're on this site, it's because no one else is here to derail the conversation. When this becomes the new forums, it's going to go back to GD style asking you questions every time you show up, no matter how on-topic it is. If no one else was posting, we could have this exact conversation on GD. We might have it even better, because you can quote in multiple blocks on GD.

RiotIronStylus25 votes

Welp, fair point I suppose, but I don't have a ton of time to revisit every single point of the whole thread.

Either way, the way I'm tracking this discussion is through the "my updates" widget at the top, so no matter what, derailing or not, I'd be tracking this here with ease.

If this isn't valuable for you, sorry. I don't know what else I can do on the matter.

Hellioning40 votes

'My updates' is great for smaller conversations, but when I made the Sion thread, I had to keep going into it just so I didn't have 100+ updates at all time, because every time someone responded to that thread, it would go up there.

This whole web site seems decent enough for smaller, personal conversations, but it falls apart for longer, larger discussions. I'm having trouble doing anything in the Caitlyn thread but respond to people that are responding to me.

Iron Rubric13 votes

so your saying you have thin skin? Also, these forums are3 awful to read, gd is alot easier to read, thats why i loved it so much, granted the community dropped, but still... Also, this game is not an adult only game, you cant claim to want adult discussions. And the toxicity of GD will eventually come here, then what? your gona make a new forum to go hide in and be condescending? I thought just the game was starting to slack, didnt realize one of my favorite reds was too.

Again i would like to emphasize, these reedit style forums ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS TO READ especially for mobile users.

sorry, dont mean to be a jerk, just had a really bad game. Im gona try sticking to these forums, but if you changed the background color or gave the option to, and change the font and size, it might help.

Also, if a mobile format was available it would help :D

Cakeisg00d9 votes

I admire how you don't lose your cool at some of these people.

Lord Graves III10 votes

I sorta agree with you, but see it from Parrot's perspective,

He doesn't wanna deal with the amount of toxicity on GD. I can buy that, hell, I don't like dealing with it either. Especially because he draws an inordinate amount of it. Every post, no matter how crappy, awful, and mean spirited gets equal facetime.

Considering the guy only talks to us of his own accord, on his own time, and as such unpaid, I feel that hes not being unreasonable. Bad attitudes on GD can wear a man out. Hell, it can make a man stop speaking to the community. Especially when its during his personal time.

Here on this forum (that I still hate. I hate Reddit) we get to talk directly to the makers of the game we love, and they don't have to deal with people who seriously have bad attitudes that make them feel awful. Its a win win really. Are we so spoiled that in addition to getting direct input towards the game's makers, we also demand it be purely in the form and forum we are most comfortable with? I think we are better than that.

RiotIronStylus24 votes

My hope is that the beta team implements features that will help you adapt and enjoy it. Believe me, right now it's not optimal, I've let them know my feedback, so thanks for sticking it out.

Lord Graves III5 votes

For what its worth. I spend most of my time Devtracking, and this format works well for that. It also seems to work for small conversations. I just hate losing stuff in big threads.

Also, I'm a big fan of your work. Gameside and community-side.

FaerKhan8 votes

I on the other hand, hate the new system for devtracking, as I can't keep track of the formatting (which is why the reddit system sucks).

And since Red tracking is pretty much all I do on the forums, the Community beta just doesn't appeal to me.

Hellioning23 votes

The primary reason that thread is so full of hate and rage is because you specifically said you didn't want to be in that thread anymore. You specifically told a bunch of GDers, who presumably prefer GD to this forum, given that they post in GD and not this forum, that you don't like the way they do things and that, in order to have a discussion with you, they have to go to a site they don't like.

I'm not defending them or the way they're acting, but there are several in that thread who have rational complaints about this format that are either being ignored or being left unnoticed because of all the idiots. That thread was perfectly civil until you responded with what you said. THEN all the toxicity came out.

And I have to ask, parrot, where is your optimism coming from? Why on earth do you think that toxic behavior is going to stop because of this new format? The downvoting system is not going to work once the GD crowd comes over here; see how many posts that you would consider 'toxic' are being upvoted in that thread because the prevailing opinion is that you suck. Sure, if a bunch of rational people were to show up in that thread, they might down vote those toxic comments into oblivion, but why on earth would they?

RiotIronStylus27 votes

but there are several in that thread who have rational complaints about this format that are either being ignored or being left unnoticed because of all the idiots.

Exactly. Their voices are being drown out. And here we are, discussing it rationally.

In terms of optimism, I want to try something new and I'd like others to do the same. There is no way I can track the conversations that go on in GD as they currently stand. The way I go about finding the threads I want to address is insane. The constant refreshing, the upvoting and downvoting that really doesn't mean anything, the anger and the energy, it's a bit overwhelming.

When it comes down to it, I just don't have the time to sort through GD anymore the way I used to. I don't have the energy to put up with negative behavior. I have a job to do on a day-to-day basis and it's only gotten more involved as Relaunch has spun up. I want to be able to serve players by taking feedback directly which is deemed valuable by the community. I can best do that in this venue.

So, beyond that particular thread, I want to be able to do my job and go beyond it. This system is the best way I can achieve that balance. GD is not viable for me anymore in certain regards.

Hellioning19 votes

I guess I can understand that, but League is a big game. When this becomes the offical forums, it'll only become worse, because either A) you look through all of these threads in order to find the ones you want to respond to, or B) you only respond to massively upvoted threads.

If A), then you will have to expend as much energy on these forums as GD, and if B)...well, if B) is your option, you've just found out why I hate reddit and why I hate these forums and are just confirming that this was a bad idea!

RiotIronStylus18 votes

Because seeing upvoted feedback is bad? That's pretty much the best way I we can glean popular opinion. If the most upvoted topic or feedback piece is "Hey, there's a problem here." then we should probably address it. I fail to see how seeing a popular opinion is a bad thing.

Hellioning27 votes

Because me and popular opinion don't get along. I know, I know, 'welcome to democracy' and all that, but just because something is popular doesn't mean that it's, you know, useful. During a server outage, I imagine a thread along the lines of 'riot fix your servers' would be incredibly upvoted, after all, but is that really useful? Presumably, your server people already know that, and the most they can do is post 'hey guys, we know about the issue and we are fixing it.' Does that help anyone, beside the occasional person who thinks that Riot genuinely either doesn't know or doesn't care that their servers are having issues?

More then that, though, it leads to unpopular opinions getting buried. For example, if I make a post about female champion diversity, that thread will probably get downvoted, because the community either doesn't see a problem with female champion diversity at present, doesn't care, or genuinely thinks that female champion diversity is a bad thing. Does this mean that I don't have a point worth responding to? I think I do; otherwise I wouldn't have made that thread.

And, of course, it sets expectation that if a thread gets upvoted, it warrants a Riot response. We all know how well people take 'broken promises' that were never promises in the first place.

RiotIronStylus23 votes

Well, currently people simply bump the hell out of a thread they want attention to be paid to, and you currently have about the same chance of getting buried on GD than on the new format. But I'd submit that the opposite of your description is true in that we've seen "unpopular" threads such as sexuality, diversity, etc become hot issues that elicit upvoting and repetitive "fix ur servers" threads just get buried. They're redundant and not useful.

Either way, you're going to have to give the new venue a chance. There's nothing here that's going to hurt you. You're basing all of your feelings off of assumptions.

Hellioning31 votes

As are you. You have no reason to believe that the self-moderating tools that we are being given will actually work, given the average LoL forum goer.

Whatever, we're just arguing in circles. I'm going to bed. Hope you get a good night's sleep too.

Beldori5 votes

This doesn't take into account for anyone that is a "fanboy" kind of thing or the exact opposite, many people will upvote or downvote just because it is a certain poster regardless if it is a post of merit or not. So regardless you will have to weed through posts once the beta goes live since anyone who has a fanbase can push their post to the top to get your attention by getting folks to upvote their thread regardless of what the post is.

As it has been said this just seems to enforce the herd mentality and I don't seeing it being better than the alternative

emTmyclipin2u13 votes

I'll give you an example. Every post you've put in here, while stated reasonably and with positive intent, has been downvoted into oblivion, at least for here. Not because of how you were posting, but because people disagreed with you and are still angry because of the situation on GD. Were you a normal, non red person, you would not be considered, by your own rules, "worthy" of views. This then turns every thread into a massive circlejerk, positive or negative. My assumption, from your actions previously, is that you would ignore the negative circlejerks, as they tend to slowly spiral into a point where whoever has the best insults gets the most upvotes, while spending time discussing and participating in the positive ones, leading you to assume things that aren't true. Essentially, I'm worried that these forums will change negative feedback into "toxic" posts, and riot will start believing its own hype and thinking it can do no wrong, not because it actually can't, but because they aren't hearing all points.

LeeDark8 votes

Yeah, democracy never gets anything wrong. /sarcasm

exec318 votes

Upvoted feedback doesn't mean it's good feedback and downvoted feedback doesn't mean it's bad and should be ignored by you guys. Unpopular opinions are often well reasoned posts with very important feedback from an alternate point of view but under this system the downvoting will be enough that those important points will never reach your ears.

Knight Devout11 votes

I fail to see how seeing a popular opinion is a bad thing.

Cringing intensifies. Well, I guess that given the small amount of tools you have to read the massive amount of text delivered in the forums, the "popular opinion" might seem appealing , but always remember that more doesn't equal better and that the most upvoted threads I saw were (with good exceptions) either rant threads about "X Champion OP he deads me rito" or complains about the server.

An opinion that a few people dislike might still be valid, and an opinion that a lot of people approve might be really bad. Just look at how many downvotes you are getting for really no good reason.

Also, on a different topic: how do you feel when a Red post about balance or rework gets massively downvoted? (look at Scarizard knifecat threads, which reached almost 400 downvotes when he proposed to remove stealth). Do you think such vocal disagreement is valuable?

emTmyclipin2u7 votes

The second part of your thread has a very important point. Riot has a very big amount of hypocrisy with downvotes. Were Riot run by the people, Yi would still have resets, Karma's rework would have been undone (when Morello said that he wouldn't do it, it got over 1000 downvotes by the time I stopped following the thread), Nasus would have kept his voice, the list goes on and on. For claiming they want our feedback, if the feedback disagrees with their opinion, they do a lot of dismissing, ignoring, and doing their own thing. Their communication is lacking, not because, I theorize, they actually want to surprise us, but because they realize that its easier to say "no takebacks" than "we're doing what we want despite your feedback". They've come a long way from the past, but even the public reworks end up coming out extremely different than last communication (RIP Skarner).

ThaddeusMike4 votes

I hear you, but look at that thread now, you can see exactly why I didn't want to stick around, and I feel that any perceived disrespect you saw from me was met with a hyperbolic amount of disrespect from a number of posters.

Perceived disrespect? Can you see how that might be perceived as you trying to deflect blame? I came into that thread after having read your much longer, more reasoned response and I still thought the first few posts of yours were disrespectful. I can only imagine what people reading them at the time thought. However, that perception wasn't internally generated; it came from you, from what you wrote, and from how you wrote it. Yeah, you had a point. 5 posts later you managed to make it. The first posts, however, were dismissive of a group of people you were purportedly trying to help.

Bubble Butt Lulu23 votes

Thanks for posting the things you don't like about the Community Beta. I'm sure the devs will appreciate it.

As for IS not wanting to post on GD, I can see why. I'm pretty bad about shit posting most of the time there too. The general atmosphere and attitude of GD is just terrible and this is coming from an avid GDer.

Hellioning19 votes

Oh, I totally agree, the average forum poster in GD is terrible. But the issue is that eventually the bad elements of GD are going to be forced to come over here (they can't have two concurrent forums forever) and then everything is going to be exactly the same as before, if not worse due to the upvoting/downvoting system.

Bubble Butt Lulu7 votes

I can see where you're coming from and I've had some of the same thoughts, but I'm going to give it a go anyways. The Beta has a committed team full of people who want the platform to succeed. Maybe you can come up with an idea that can help change some of the things you don't like. They've done some stuff here like having the ability to report posts that I feel like will really help out.

Hellioning8 votes

I suppose that if Riot gives these forums decent moderation when they come out, than sure, they will most likely be superior to GD. But if you gave decent moderation to GD, you'd have the same result.

I just think this is a bunch of change that won't do nearly as much as Riot wants it to and exists merely because reddit does.

RiotIronStylus46 votes

Moderation in an environment such as GD is simply not feasible or scalable. My personal feeling is that the community needs to be able to self moderate in some way. We all need to be adults if we want our voices heard.

More moderation isn't going to fix the problem. This can't be a completely top-down solution when it comes to personal behavior and accountability.

Hellioning29 votes

Why on earth would this new format cause people to act more responsible and be accountable for their own actions? The people you trust to moderate the idiots ARE the idiots. We'll probably get rid of the 'omg wtf riot u suck' comments, but there are still going to be plenty of 'Riot I think you're terrible and are running this game into the ground' when, say, server issues occur. Why do you think that is going to change with this new format?

RiotIronStylus37 votes

Getting rid of 'omg wtf' threads which don't give actionable feedback would be a great step in and of itself. I trust that people will self moderate if they've given the option to. We'll see if that trust holds true, might not.

People can say "Riot I think you're terrible..." all they want in this venue as well. It will be up to the community to decide whether that feedback, how it's phrased, and whether it's actionable, should be brought to the top. If it's brought to the top in a respectful way, then it'll be addressed. Pretty simple.

My wife is a behavioral psychologist. One of the things she focuses on is simple reward-based behavioral reinforcement. Respectful and constructive critical feedback will be responded to, negative and non-constructive negative feedback will not be. The reward for keeping it together is that we can have a conversation. I like to reinforce respectful behavior with respectful response. Eventually the bulletin will make it around that such feedback, presented in such a way, will get a red's attention.

Hellioning10 votes

Well, that's just blind hope. And I can't really argue with that, because there's nothing to argue against.

Arkna58 votes

  1. Upvotes and downvotes aren't a tool of self moderation, it's a tool for encouraging herd mentality.

  2. Actual self moderation tools (community mods, ability to filter posts, a search function that was made in the 2000s, a report button) don't exist.

The biggest reason is toxic and derailing posts having equal visual real estate as legitimate questions and comments.

I've have a few too many discussions that devolve, get lost, get derailed, get piled with vitriol and eventually become too hard to track. The best way I can answer the players, and do service to people who have a desire to interact on topic in a polite way is in the new beta format.

Pretty straight forward.

You should be judging a post by it's content, not some number to the side of it. It's a convenience that makes popular ideas easy to see, but buries dissenting opinions. Let's say you rework Poppy. Players who main Poppy could have their entire opinion ignored just because there aren't as many Poppy players to contribute. And given Riot's history of satisfying players who have their main's reworked, this isn't something I really trust you on anyways.

Oh, and you told someone to remake his thread on the Community Beta, when GDer's already feel as though they are ignored in favor of Reddit. Then you flat at tell him he has to use the Community Beta to participate in further discussions. YOU derailed that thread, and to try and use it as evidence against hosting topics on GD is mind boggling.

coeriv14 votes

To me, this is just by far the most annoying format I've ever tried to read posts in. If i could somehow click on the "layers" so that one conversation isn't interjecting another...

At this point, if i want to see all the comments towards the first poster, i have to scroll up and down my page multiple times to read different conversations started by different responses. It's just painful to me.

Also, bringing my comment from GD to here with the hopes that maybe you will actually give this a shot.

Use a non riot name to try and and start a new productive conversation in a already established....thread? parent thread? idk what to refer to the entire page as.

It's EXTREMELY hard to get your post any attention at all with out post deep into a...minor...parent..thread? or with out replying directly to someone to begin with.

I am Razgriz3 votes

Just a question. Doesn't GD self-moderate already? You already have an upvote/downvote system in place. Yeah it doesn't shoot highly upvoted stuff to the top but downvoted stuff gets hidden. You think that will change significantly in this beta?

exec323 votes

Self moderating is exactly why GD has become what it is today. It doesn't work and the Upvote/Downvote system is used just as much for agreeing/disagreeing with someone as it is for getting rid of dodgy content. We need proper moderation. Half the reason why moderating GD isn't feasable today is because EVERYTHING goes into GD when there's perfectly functioning sub forums that could be getting used that aren't because there's no moderators directing people when they post in the wrong location.

It really pains me seeing all the champion concept threads get no posts but the ones that get posted incorrectly on GD can go for 100's of pages.

Casual Sidestep3 votes

If the "immature" forumgoers from GD come here instead, then guess what? They're going to be toxic and immature here too. You're delusional

Penguin Eclipse18 votes

Honestly this very thread is an example of why this type of forum moderating doesn't work. I am not referring to the content, but the massive downvotes and upvotes being given.

IronStylus has received a considerable amount of downvotes. Not because of the quality of his posts, but because people are disagreeing with him. If he were not a Red, his posts would have been buried. That is simply what happens when you give people upvote/downvote buttons. People vote based on their own personal opinions or for a message they want to send. That's not good or bad, that's just the way it is.

If this sort of system were implemented right now in GD, the trolls would still be overrunning the place. Don't believe me? Look at some of Morello's posts and see how many downvotes he gets or when someone makes a honest fact based post about how they don't believe LeBlanc or Leona are OP. Now look at someone bashing Morello or CertainlyT or the millions of posts on Yasuo and see how many upvotes they get. Now imagine if those votes in GD actually meant something.

When it comes to voting on threads it gets even worse. Topics like "Riot is a Greedy Company" would be upvoted to the top while serious topics talking about say, the upcoming changes to SpellThief, would receive almost no votes and disappear.

PsychoB0b9 votes

IronStylus, I can see why you wanted to move here...People are blowing things waaay out of proportion on the forums. There was absolutely nothing dismissive or rude in your tone...you didn't even say to use this site instead. You just asked if they'd mind giving this site a try, but you'd check that thread....and apparently you might as well have kicked everyone in the shins and yelled "Post on the beta now you idiots!" which...quite frankly is disgusting :/

Sorry you have to deal with that kind of negativity....if it helps any, I think you're a great artist, and one of my favorite reds (Xelnath's up there, and CertainlyT's my favorite champ designer :p)

MackleDoge13 votes

That's really just your opinion. I wasn't part of that thread, but following the Dev Tracker and only seeing what Iron Stylus said, that really did seem rude and dismissive to me. Dismissing how the people on GD or the other original forum sub-communities feel is part of the issue with this entire thing, and not really something you should feel great about encouraging. Did those people handle it appropriately? Definitely not, but if you actually go and look at that thread, it only turned toxic after they were essentially told "I know you guys have this thread going and want answers but I want you guys to remake it on this other format that you obviously don't use because you are making and commenting on this thread in this format".

PsychoB0b5 votes

I did read through a bit of the thread....and it was incredibly toxic. He wasn't demanding anyone go onto the beta...he was asking if they'd mind trying it out. The hostility that came from it is a perfect example of why he didn't want to post there.

MackleDoge8 votes

You must not have read through the start of the thread, because that thread didn't turn toxic until after IronStylus asked them to remake a perfectly valid thread on this format.

PsychoB0b3 votes

Ctrl+c Ctrl+v

...woo?

He asked them to do it because it's easier to sort through replies. He goes to bed at night, goes to work, comes back home....and theres 500 new replies to the thread, which he'd have to read through all of it incase there were good points made. As opposed to the same thing...but the community upvoted the parts they liked so it was more visible, and gave him better feedback than sorting through all the replies.

MackleDoge8 votes

I'm not sure what your preamble nonsense means so I'll just ignore that. And it's not the fact that he asked for it to be remade over here that's rude, it's the fact that he made it quite clear that if they didn't they were going to be ignored. That's been the main issue that people have with this format to begin with (as far as GD people are concerned) is that they would end up being ignored in favor of this format regardless of any circumstances. If you can't understand that, then I don't even understand how else I'm supposed to explain this to you.

As far as what actually happened in the beta forum thread, that has been explained and counter-argued numerous times already and I'm not going to rehash it just because you (or anyone else for that matter) elected to ignore it.

PsychoB0b2 votes

The preamble was showing the ability of the copy/paste tool.

He made it clear that FUTURE threads were going to be held here.

Being ignored is a valid point...and something that could do with a bit of feedback to prevent.

Furthermore, no need to be a dick man.

MackleDoge4 votes

I wasn't trying to be a dick, that's my bad, I just couldn't figure out the right way to word what I was trying to say. Sorry if you felt I insulted you, wasn't my intention >.< I mean, I get copy pasterino but I'm not sure what you meant by it? I don't know man, it seemed pretty obvious from the way he worded it that he would participate if the thread was on the beta but he wouldn't be participating if it was on GD. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting it, but if I am, so did every single other person in that thread.

Personally, I don't really mind this format, I do prefer GD format, but I'm not upset or bothered by this one (though I do have a few issues with it). I just feel that Stylus handled that entire situation really really poorly. Note That does not mean I'm excusing the toxicity that happened afterwards in that thread.

LeeDark10 votes

Which was a lie, basically. He ignored the content of the thread, instead helping to derail a Caitlyn VU thread into one about the Community beta. While here, he discusses the Caitlyn VU in it's thread. His second post in that GD thread basically was, "Well, screw you, then. We like Reddit better, and that should be obvious by now."

coeriv9 votes

Well, i'v been here about 4 minutes and have decided this is the most annoying discussion format i have ever read.

The further down the page i scroll, with comments sorted by "best" the more i see constructive comments completely drowned out due to a lack of up votes. i think?

Not to mention this format creates threads inside of threads inside of threads. There seems to be 5 different discussions going on at any given time.

God forbid you loose track of your post.

Also, i can upvote my own post. thats lovely

So i've figured out how to find my post... I suppose that's ok

Maybe it's just that i dislike the style of the forum, who knows... But if we switch to this i'll never be back on the forums again. ((not that anyone should be concerned about this)

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