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This patch needs to be hot fixed or risk serious long term consequences

PhantomGG··87 votes·16,938 views

We begged for this patch to not go through. We voiced how it was a terrible idea. Three days in and we are still voicing how terrible this is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIi2oJiqO00&t=7s

G bay posted a really well made video on how league can die. Saying the worse thing a video game can do to kill themselves, is ailenate their audience in favor of a very specific niche group. And behold that's exactly what they are doing.

That's exactly what this patch did.

Riot do the right thing, revert this patch, and take it back the the drawing board.

Other wise risk long term consequences of losing players, destroying the truth and faith your audience has with you. Hell even me a avid league lover is just heavily debating on simply finishing his promos, and than skipping this whole entire patch if it insn't hot fixed.

Even a friend of mine who has been here since season one, when I told him. "i honestly don't think riot is going to revert this patch" He simply told me "that's what will drive me to quitting then". Another friend, diamond player, wanted to climb to masters this year. I asked him. "how should I approach this patch competitively?" His answer was "just play fortnite".

This could actually, quite literally be the patch, that legitimately hurts the league fan base as a whole in numbers.

PLEASE and I repeat PLEASE do not do what you did with dynamic que and allow this "new and diverse crab " to stay for the whole year.

85 Comments

DarkSoul199425 votes

The only Junglers this change benefits are Graves and Lee Sin (maybe also WW/Olaf/Xin) who were already meta Junglers and who simply can't be out-dueled at Level 2.

Battalion2 votes

Lee Sin and Graves are pick-ban, Xin Zhao is not far behind.

TempName548465 votes

as dia ww main i can tell you that this patch hurt ww a shitload, honestly i don't even think his viable in the jungle currently unless a new playstyle for him appears (had mild success with starting top side buff > enemy buff > scuttle).

DarkSoul199410 votes

The big issue with Warwick is that they hit him directly in 8.9 and then indirectly with the machete nerf on 8.10 so it's hard to gauge whether it's the change to jungle exp + scuttle crab gimmick hurting him or if it was everything else.

TempName548461 votes

W max was already better than Q max before 8.9 so the nerfs didn't really do anything, well asides from low elo and people who didn't really play WW not to mention that Q max last was just as viable as W first or Q first. the machete nerfs really weren't much either + they hit all machete start junglers not only WW.

apparently the better WW players are going Q and E at level 2 now and having success with that so i guess i should try that.

DarkSoul19941 votes

The thing with Machete was that the change hit AS-reliant Junglers a lot harder than, say, Lee Sin or Graves.

BestPudgeNA2 votes

{quoted}

The big issue with Warwick is that they hit him directly in 8.9 and then indirectly with the machete nerf on 8.10 so it's hard to gauge whether it's the change to jungle exp + scuttle crab gimmick hurting him or if it was everything else.

It's definitely the XP changes for him. WW is really a champ that wants all 3 of abilities to duel/gank. WW is kinda the ultimate early game champ and falls of hard. Now that it takes longer to hit 3 WW early game suffers and he still a weak champ late.

4th3t0s2 votes

Forgetting Trundle?

DarkSoul19941 votes

He's in there simply because Olaf and Mundo are so prevalent right now.

4th3t0s4 votes

Or because he can 1v1 easy at level 2

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

???? this change was made to nerf jungle impact. So its a "success" if most of junglers don't benefits of it. Graves already deserved nerf, same for trundle... and so on.

SaltPatrol20 votes

Stop the fear mongering. The nerfs were desperately needed; they obviously went overboard but they needed a base line of nerfs to build off of. They will give some back, jg was just too influential and lanes stopped paying attention to Jg control. Coming from a season 1 main.

Edit 1:

A poster who doesn't reply and just down votes shouldn't reply. It's an open discussion. Hence, forum.

eldritchbreadD7 votes

{quoted}

Stop the fear mongering. The nerfs were desperately needed; they obviously went overboard but they needed a base line of nerfs to build off of. They will give some back, jg was just too influential and lanes stopped paying attention to Jg control. Coming from a season 1 main.

Edit 1:

A poster who doesn't reply and just down votes shouldn't reply. It's an open discussion. Hence, forum.

bruh to be honest the changes are extremely bad and well clunky in aspects and im a support main and i know it

Daedric Etwahl2 votes

Yeah. I dont know anything about jungle, but in my games today, something just seemed... very wrong with how both junglers were doing. It's very hard to explain and yeah just one game, but things seemed very off, in a bad way

AirKingNeo4 votes

people are only complaining about rng scuttles man

Anime Fizz1 votes

{quoted}

people are only complaining about rng scuttles man

Its not rng, you can clearly see which side it'll spawn before hand, and first one spawn BOTH sides.

It would be rng IF it didnt tell you which side it was gonna spawn, then you could get screwed by something out of your control, but as it is it doesnt work like that.

AirKingNeo1 votes

yeah and that's really shitty still because it forces you to have to path towards it, but if you already cleared camps in a fashion where going to it is a waste of time, you're SOL.

big boi edri10 votes

This patch isn't gonna kill league, y'all are flippin the fuck out.

That said, I think this time I can get behind the hate wagon on this change. Its just awful design and has completely ruined the jungle for myself and many others I know. Hoping they revert it, but again something like this won't be killing the game. It was just a shitty decision.

TempName5484612 votes

no one thinks this patch is going to kill league, riot will continue to slowly eat away at their player base until there are none left though.

big boi edri4 votes

Doubt it, you're just blowing things out of proportion. I've seen people saying games are dying and everything else. All games die, it's just a matter of when.

Riot is better off trying something new whenever they can than leaving things as they are. Stale games die, bringing new things to the table keeps the game alive. Some changes suck, some dont, but at least they're trying.

And continue eating away at their player base? The majority I know enjoy league still, some left but just because it got old, not because of any specific changes. I think this is the first actual change where I can ask anybody I know playing League and they hate it.

Madsin251 votes

The game is stale because their is so much damage. Blowing entire teams up and watching your team explode in .5 is only fun for so long.

Madsin251 votes

The video posted by the OP uses the death of runescape as an example as to how league might die.

However runescape did not die because jagex didn't listen to the playerbase.

It died because they completely changed the games combat system out of greed of trying to bring in " new-age" players.

Until league massively overhauls how combat itself works it will not die.

TempName548461 votes

rs lost a shitload of its player base before the combat overhaul, hell the combat overhaul was probably done because the game was dying.

PhantomGG1 votes

{quoted}

The video posted by the OP uses the death of runescape as an example as to how league might die.

However runescape did not die because jagex didn't listen to the playerbase.

It died because they completely changed the games combat system out of greed of trying to bring in " new-age" players.

Until league massively overhauls how combat itself works it will not die.

Naw it won't die, until a better moba is released. Despite shit I just posted, it's only real legit rival is Dota. And both player bases show clear signs they will never convert to the other. So for both Dota and League to die, both games need to be in a state where players are sick of the bullshit, than a new designer comes and releases something fresh, new and less toxic looking.

Titanium708 votes

There's yet to be a SINGLE JGL change (and there where plenty) without Boards/Reddit/Youtube being flooded "JGL DEAD!!!" Posts....

Was never true - will not be true this time.

JGL is fine - has more Skill expression than ever and can be done by not just META JGLs!

Ryrynounet4 votes

JGL is fine - has more Skill expression than ever and can be done by not just META JGLs!

Ok now I want you to have a 5 chain win in rnaked with Ekko jungle, go ahead.. surprise me

Titanium702 votes

Lul as if I'd ever waste that much time to proove one crying dude wrong...

However out of curiosity I tried Ekko once in the new JGL - and guess what, maintained 100% crab control during the first 10 minutes of the game. Got my Bot ahead and spend the rest of the game annoying Kayn, warding him out and contesting his camps since there was basicly no lane gankable - or better I didnt see an opportunity since I'm in general a bad JGL! (Wasted so much lead on helping this Mid-Varus - bad idea!)

I'm a Midlaner!

BakedLotion2 votes

im still wondering how a kayn got outdueled by an ekko

Titanium702 votes

Easy, he wasn't. ^^

I poked, zoned and scared him away.
He would have won any longer duel early on - but I simply avoided it - annoyed him - just like I'd do it on lane.

JGL is actually funny this patch - I'm longer dependant on my lanes to not AFK push to get something done on the map.

BestPudgeNA6 votes

{quoted}

Yeah dude looks like you hard carried this game ROFL. Lowest KP%, Under 2 KDA when the rest of your teams was over 4. Lower gold and level then your support. Barely outdamaged your support and did less then half of the damage as all your other carries ROFL

https://imgur.com/sSFiVXZ

Big impact you had on that game [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Kitsunes Lust2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah dude looks like you hard carried this game ROFL. Lowest KP%, Under 2 KDA when the rest of you teams was over 4. Lower gold and level then your support. Barely outdamaged you support and did less then half of the damage as all your other carries ROFL

https://imgur.com/sSFiVXZ

Big impact you had on that game [zombie-brand-mindblown]

upvoting just cuz it made me laugh a bit at how true that is XD

Titanium701 votes

... and than look what Kayn was able to do on this game.. x'D KDA isnt everything. ;)

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

... and than look what Kayn was able to do on this game.. x'D KDA isnt everything. ;)

Kayn outfarmed you got the first dragon and rift and helped his team get towers. You're team was down 5 towers at one point, not sure how you controlled the game by "Getting bot ahead" when you teams was losing till a 26th min timefight that you killed nobody in. You're citing a game in which both Junglers were the worst preforming carries on their teams as an example oh why jungle is OP.... u wut m8?

RekSai CoffeeCo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Ryvals,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVpc6qb9,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-05-19T08:25:05.637+0000)

Ok now I want you to have a 5 chain win in rnaked with Ekko jungle, go ahead.. surprise me

Agreed I would also like to see him/her have a 5 chain with Rumble as well

Ryrynounet1 votes

Poor guy, no MS and mana to compensate with CDR Lul :v

DracosKasu1 votes

Skill expression dont make me laugh 2 is offer. Fight at the top scrddle abd hope to be the winner of the 1v1/1v2/1v3 or do red-grub-scuddle bot and hope that your top lane dont feed sonce you cant counter gank. Skillz right

RedPannda6 votes

Why does this have 12 upvotes? Gameplay I'm disappointed in you, not surprised but disappointed.

AirKingNeo13 votes

probably because Riot fucked up and refuses to take responsibility.

People said it was a bad idea and they fucked up. Riot doesn't want to man up and admit they fucked up.

Tacosrock5 votes

I mean... does this seriously surprise you? They already nerfed mages for the sake of diversity in lcs which apparently equals $$$ and have now nerfed the jungle for some odd reason. Both instances are where they’ve alienated a certain playerbase for no good reason.

Ive pretty much stopped playing the game at this point because i know that nothing will be done to fix any mistakes that obviously alienate certain player groups... so whatever. I’ll spend my time elsewhere.

the weeaboo4 votes

Well lets take a look at the roles Rito has shit on over and over:

ADC by making it a no-fun role where you either right click 5 times to win teamfights or get blown up before you do anything. No in between.

Support because all "passive" supports are just shieldbots and are only as good as their itemization that patch, and all "active" supports are overloaded CC lords that either have 47% or 53% winrates based on wether or not they can compete with passive support's itemization. Also by making damage supports a viable thing... why the fuck did their Brand "support" just 100-0 me with a liandrys and sightstone? Oh wait yeah because real supports dont have an impact on the game unless you're really good so why not just play a damage supp and carry it yourself?

Jungle by the retarded amount of mini-reworks it's received over time. First with the smite buff removals, then with the plants, then with the clear times, then with the catchup exp, then with this new scuttle and exp shit. Every 6 months junglers have to relearn their role, and despite being probably the role with the largest variety rito seems insistent on rotating which 5 champs are actually viable.

Tops either have no impact on the match and are on a farm island, or are monsters that just shit all over the map with TP and a slight lead. Every single matchup is feast or famine now. As someone who mostly plays toplaners, I can say that all skill expression from this lane has been removed. If you have a bad matchup in top your best hope is to sit under tower and [ray your bot and mid don't also feed. Top used to be about skill and who could make more outplays 1v1. Now it's all stat checking. Case in point being Ornn and Nasus. Ornn was overloaded and his damage was too high. They remove the unstoppable instead of just nerfing his fucking W because yeah... thats the problem riot... not him chunking me every 5 seconds for 20% of my HP while he gets a huge shield so i cant retaliate.... And then nasus used to be a hyper scaler that would take over a game provided it goes long enough and hes good at managing waves. Now Nasus plays like this: "did I get 6?" if answer is yes, you win lane from now on. If answer is no, don't die and wait until 6. Nasus literally beats anyone in a 1v1 at 6 even without that many stacks. Including fiora. He's just so overwhelming.

And finally... mids. Assassins are eternally in this limbo of being too potent against ADCs and enchanters and yet useless against everything else. Riot doesn't want them to do their job. Meanwhile they just gut the shit outta mages at every opportunity even though mages are only good to get enemies to waste gold buying MR so that the ADC can shred them. And occasionally pull off big AoE cc.

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

skulldeadboss8 votes

{quoted}

No, the patch needed to happen. There are a ton of balance changes that need to happen in the next few patches but the overall direction is something that needed to happen for the entire season.

I cant see the balance anywhere, they just made jungle random.

Vanjie3 votes

What I don't like is how the work was supposed to make it easier for players to choose all different types of junglers. That is not the case at all. You have to play early game junglers and junglers who can duel really well . . . . before level 4 to practically win the game. The game is decided by Scuttle Crabs but also the fact that a jungler cannot come back at all.

All the Developers had to do was nerf EXP and nerf a few early game junglers. This did not happen at all. They put too much power into Scuttle Crabs and it is dictating the presence of the game. On paper it is not a bad idea. Unfortunately when you put too much power into one thing, it's going to create a mess. It also alienated almost the entire JG roster of champions that do not clear well and is early game.

Either early game jungglers need to be nerfed and scale into mid to late game, or the changes need to be reverted and the idea needs to be severely tweaked. AP junglers also still feel incredibly weak and even worse for taking Scuttle. The top 10 junglers now are all early game and attack speed base.

Risen292 votes

{quoted}

What I don't like is how the work was supposed to make it easier for players to choose all different types of junglers. That is not the case at all. You have to play early game junglers and junglers who can duel really well . . . . before level 4 to practically win the game. The game is decided by Scuttle Crabs but also the fact that a jungler cannot come back at all.

All the Developers had to do was nerf EXP and nerf a few early game junglers. This did not happen at all. They put too much power into Scuttle Crabs and it is dictating the presence of the game. On paper it is not a bad idea. Unfortunately when you put too much power into one thing, it's going to create a mess. It also alienated almost the entire JG roster of champions that do not clear well and is early game.

Either early game jungglers need to be nerfed and scale into mid to late game, or the changes need to be reverted and the idea needs to be severely tweaked. AP junglers also still feel incredibly weak and even worse for taking Scuttle. The top 10 junglers now are all early game and attack speed base.

Exactly. Nerfing overall exp rates in the early levels would have been sufficient to achieve their goal of limiting jungles influence during the lane phase.

These other changes were completely unnecessary and have had the opposite effect. Now the viable jungle champion pool is lower and those that are powerful pre-3 will be able to have a hugely disproportional impact on the game by shutting down the enemy jungle so hard that they cannot contest you from ganking lanes constantly.

YOU SO BAD3 votes

This is why riot doesnt listen to the community.

People dont understand the game at all.

The scuttle changes are very very good for the game.

People just dont understand enough to see it.

Squirt Chimsley3 votes

An answer to question number 1 from the video, "Why hasn't league died"?

Its not so much that the game is constantly changing and that the experience of the game is none like non-MOBA's, but rather that the game has professional teams with insane contracts. In other words, the game persists and hasn't died because the money is there with the teams and players that keep its economy solid. Faker got a 2.5 million dollar contract to play with SKT which is akin to some low level, bench riding players in professional sports.

As long as the money and the critical acclaim to professional leaguing remains, it will never die. Once Faker and other pro players and streamers decide to jump ship, then the game will start to decay. Unfortunately, most of the players on league don't give a fuck about the game. They don't read the patch notes, they don't study the game. Instead, they come home, zone out and remain in a low level of awareness in a game that demands a coherent community. In other words, the game won't die as long as the bulk of its community doesn't care what riot does to keep the game fresh, even if it gets as ridiculous as this new patch might make it.

Lunie2 votes

Let's balance the game. Is it fun? Nope. SHIP THE CHANGE. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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