https://i.gyazo.com/7515f01f7ac6e474c2acedf38c6fc46d.png
this champion is beyond busted in high elo, leblanc dominates midlane with orianna taliyah syndra
those 3 champions are being nerfed, if you want diversity than leblanc HAVE to be nerfed too
"but malzahar, anivia, muh 54% win rate"
malzahar and anivia are not picked in lcs, once the pro play patches are over, riot will nerf them too. Until then it's only logical that leblanc is nerfed
chipndip13 votesLB: 49% Diamond win rate/6% play rate
"LB is broken in high elo. Check this shit out."
Janna: 55% Diamond win rate/28% play rate
"THE JANNA CIRCLE JERK? YOU GUYS ARE SO SILLY LOL!"
This is actually embarrassing.
Ahristocats1 votesXD???????? you can't tell that this champion is about pro player?
**** off
chipndip12 votesYou said this champ is broken in "high elo", not "pro play".
Nothing about pro play stats changes the notion that a 55% win rate on a near 1/3 play rate in DIAMOND play ISN'T absurd. LITERAL FREELO WALKING AROUND and you're going on about a 49% win rate champion. You should be thanking your enemies for drafting LB, based on statistics, for upping the general odds of you winning the game.
Ahristocats1 voteshigh elo and pro play is exactly the same thing, people above d1 are playing the exact same thing pros play and flame you if you pick adc morde
you have no idea what it is, to play against lb, you have no idea how it is to play against ori syndra or taliyah meanwhile i get flamed if i blind pick janna when i play above d1, and you tell me she's a walking freelo
get good at the game, is what i want to say but once balance will be plat+ again janna will be nerfed
just sit down until 7.18 is over
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QJQsAkEO,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-29T16:52:08.037+0000)
high elo and pro play is exactly the same thing, people above d1 are playing the exact same thing pros play and flame you if you pick adc morde
You're saying that ALL THESE JANNA PLAYERS are D5 - D4? NONE OF THEM are the higher up ones?
As an aside: ALL of Diamond is high elo. You're getting to straight up elitist asshole territory when you can draw lines in the sand at the top 1% of the ladder. Sure, D1 is better than D5 by a few fair margins, but let's not act like low Diamond is somehow "low elo". That's unrealistic.
you have no idea what it is, to play against lb, you have no idea how it is to play against ori syndra or taliyah
I play support. You play top/bot juggernauts. We BOTH don't lane against those champs, and the most we BOTH know about those match-ups will be after the laning phase. REGARDLESS, I'VE taken more than enough college level stats classes to know that, based on the information I'm provided, the odds of me outright losing the game in solo queue isn't magically warped out of proportion when someone picks LB. It IS when someone like Janna is picked up. Potential power exploited by pro players isn't the same as general power that's too easy to tap into and abuse in the solo queue environment by non-organized players. I'm praying something like this is easy enough to understand for you.
meanwhile i get flamed if i blind pick janna when i play above d1, and you tell me she's a walking freelo
Cause she is. Idk what's wrong with you guys in EUW but she's pretty damn freelo. Even Sona has a challenger main out there by the name of Consensual Clown, but you abandoned ship out of the support role altogether. You straight up don't appreciate what enchanters do in the game, much like a non-support main does, which is kinda crazy given your background.
Like, really, what's up with EUW?
Regardless, my point on Janna is different than just nerfing her. It's a rallying cry to alter her kit's foundation. She's seen nothing BUT nerfs for the most part and she's still a nuisance in solo queue almost all the time. She really just needs to be a different, better designed champion. Same for Soraka, Sona, and Lulu. Old enchanters have insanely static kits that are either straight up abusive (Janna atm) or nerfed into kingdom come-and-go (Lulu atm). New enchanters offer better, clearer, and more appreciated game play. Old enchanters are nearly invisible stat sticks that are just way too hard to make fair and balanced in LoL's 3-way balancing philosophy in 2017 (low/high/pro). THAT'S my ACTUAL point on Janna, but thanks for the low-key "you suck" shots. GREATLY appreciated, so I'ma throw in the good ol' "git smart" shot since you think Janna's somehow bad in high elo with a 55% GENERAL WIN RATE on a 1/4+ play rate. Like really...REALLY...you're selling this?
Ahristocats1 voteswhat the fuck is this? low diamond is something?
LUL XD
i can straight up go full ap morde ADC with Malicious in low diamond and destroy games, the difference between low diamond and high diamond is as high as the difference between bronze and plat
fact that you think janna is freelo when i get flamed for blindpicking janna says it all, just says it all indeed
chipndip11 votesSo apparently you didn't read like 80% of what I wrote. The fact that you think Sona is garbage when rank one on the NA ladder was a Sona player, and he's now sitting comfy at rank 4 atm on a 65% Sona win rate AFTER hitting rank 1 on his main account and getting perma-banned off of it (so he did a repeat feat climbing as a champ you think is completely useless). The fact that statistical evidence shows that LB is more likely to lose any given game she's seen in (even if only slightly). The fact that Janna has an abnormally high chance to win any game she's seen in, on top of being seen in an abnormally high amount of Diamond games. Toss out ALL of that because you personally play with assholes that don't like passive lanes like Janna's.
Also, to make sure you and anyone else scrolling actually believes me.
https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=consensualclown1
To boot, Janna's Challenger win rate on 91 games is 62%, 12th highest by win rate this month, 48th or 49th by pick rate (kinda lost count a lil bit)
https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/
Fact that you even came up with this reply "says it all, indeed". PRO PLAY AND SOLO QUEUE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, RUBICK. In an ideal world, they wouldn't be, and the types of metas and ideas that show up in pro play would be similar to what we see in our own games, but they are. You should try respecting that notion.
Ahristocats1 votesyou're being lucky that i'm replying to you because i read what you said but didn't want to reply
The fact that you think Sona is garbage
i thought that like 8 months ago, when lethality was meta, when zyra brand and malz were meta and playing sona was impossible
The fact that statistical evidence shows that LB is more likely to lose any given game she's seen in (even if only slightly). The fact that Janna has an abnormally high chance to win any game she's seen in, on top of being seen in an abnormally high amount of Diamond games.
i don't care about diamond games i never cared about d5 games i never cared about low diamond games i always took in account high diamond and master tier+above, even when i argued about sona at the begining of the season (she had 53% win rate)
you can list all the stats you want, darius has 50% win rate in diamond+ but no one picks him in high diamond,
low diamond games are clown fiesta, you can make everything work there, you can make full ap morde viable
Also, to make sure you and anyone else scrolling actually believes me.
To boot, Janna's Challenger win rate on 91 games is 62%, 12th highest by win rate this month, 48th or 49th by pick rate (kinda lost count a lil bit)
it doesn't matter what her win rate is in challenger because you can't make decisions based on low sample
you can just take a look at her gameplay and see if something is busted or not and janna is only good at doing one thing, everytime she plays against long ranged mages, juggernauts like morde (we never lost against janna), or adcs she's going to be worthless
Fact that you even came up with this reply "says it all, indeed". PRO PLAY AND SOLO QUEUE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, RUBICK. In an ideal world, they wouldn't be, and the types of metas and ideas that show up in pro play would be similar to what we see in our own games, but they are. You should try respecting that notion.
janna is last picked in pro play, janna is not dominating the support role in pro play IT'S THE SAME THING IN HIGH DIAMOND blind pick janna and let me laugh at how your team flames you
so you can either keep crying about janna, or learn the game that's all
[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QJQsAkEO,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-29T17:56:43.598+0000)
you're being lucky that i'm replying to you because i read what you said but didn't want to reply
i thought that like 8 months ago, when lethality was meta, when zyra brand and malz were meta and playing sona was impossible
Lethality is half the meta right now, anyway. When everyone was bugging out over Duskblade, ConsensualClown didn't magically drop out of Challenger. He still holds a top spot, and as I recall, you still quit playing Sona for Mordekaiser and Darius after you initially quit X months ago over her being bad, so how am I supposed to just "assume" your opinion changed outta nowhere? It CLEARLY didn't.
The fact that statistical evidence shows that LB is more likely to lose any given game she's seen in (even if only slightly). The fact that Janna has an abnormally high chance to win any game she's seen in, on top of being seen in an abnormally high amount of Diamond games.
i don't care about diamond games i never cared about d5 games i never cared about low diamond games i always took in account high diamond and master tier+above, even when i argued about sona at the begining of the season (she had 53% win rate)
So I'm still right anyway, given LB has a 50% win rate IN CHALLENGER, akin to her near 50% win rate in DIAMOND, meanwhile Janna's at 62% in challenger with the highest Diamond win rate in the game? And you're throwing subliminals at ME? Are you sure? Take a stats class. Fact check your claims. Don't half-ass alternative facts and fake news based on anecdotal evidence and feelings.
you can list all the stats you want, darius has 50% win rate in diamond+ but no one picks him in high diamond,
I halfway have the mind to check this, too, but I don't care about Darius enough.
low diamond games are clown fiesta, you can make everything work there, you can make full ap morde viable
You're just being an elitist again.
it doesn't matter what her win rate is in challenger because you can't make decisions based on low sample
OH, REALLY?
So you take an extremely small sample of about 1% of the community, cut off the bottom two divisions from that tier (which is blatantly impossible to do given that no stats sites allows you to divide information by divisions) to make it even smaller, and start cooking up "facts" while dismissing players that are blatantly better than the elo range you're making alternative facts for? Because of a SMALL SAMPLE SIZE? REALLY!?
Mental gymnastics, much?
you can just take a look at her gameplay and see if something is busted or not
The WHOLE POINT of my long paragraph from about 2 posts ago is that it's incredibly difficult to see just how much old enchanters provide in a match, which is part of why I dislike their design in this day and age. Janna's contributions don't kill you. They stop you. They seal leads. They stop snowballs. They break your make-or-break moments. They're low-key enough that people let her fly on by, but strong enough to silently win her matches way more than she loses them. In ANY elo, and it's LITERALLY PROVEN by the type of people that gave you the same information that LB generally loses more than she wins. If you think different, PROVE it, don't just say it. I proved my claims. If you can't see it, get glasses or contacts. Just stop trying to overnerf LB. She's balanced all the way up to challenger, which is proved in my previous link as well (100 wins/50% win rate challenger elo).
janna is last picked in pro play, janna is not dominating the support role in pro play IT'S THE SAME THING IN HIGH DIAMOND
Literally like talking to bricks, yet I do it.
"I can't actually look up the difference between divisions in game statistics, but I'ma make the claim that Janna is never picked in higher Diamond tiers when all signs say otherwise. WHY? Just cause. No evidence. No data. Just me. Watch me denounce all these numbers disproving me right quick."
Just face it: You don't have a point. You're just whining about LB.
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QJQsAkEO,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-29T17:56:43.598+0000)
you're being lucky that i'm replying to you because i read what you said but didn't want to reply
i thought that like 8 months ago, when lethality was meta, when zyra brand and malz were meta and playing sona was impossible
Lethality is half the meta right now, anyway. When everyone was bugging out over Duskblade, ConsensualClown didn't magically drop out of Challenger. He still holds a top spot, and as I recall, you still quit playing Sona for Mordekaiser and Darius after you initially quit X months ago over her being bad, so how am I supposed to just "assume" your opinion changed outta nowhere? It CLEARLY didn't.
The fact that statistical evidence shows that LB is more likely to lose any given game she's seen in (even if only slightly). The fact that Janna has an abnormally high chance to win any game she's seen in, on top of being seen in an abnormally high amount of Diamond games.
i don't care about diamond games i never cared about d5 games i never cared about low diamond games i always took in account high diamond and master tier+above, even when i argued about sona at the begining of the season (she had 53% win rate)
So I'm still right anyway, given LB has a 50% win rate IN CHALLENGER, akin to her near 50% win rate in DIAMOND, meanwhile Janna's at 62% in challenger with the highest Diamond win rate in the game? And you're throwing subliminals at ME? Are you sure? Take a stats class. Fact check your claims. Don't half-ass alternative facts and fake news based on anecdotal evidence and feelings.
you can list all the stats you want, darius has 50% win rate in diamond+ but no one picks him in high diamond,
I halfway have the mind to check this, too, but I don't care about Darius enough.
low diamond games are clown fiesta, you can make everything work there, you can make full ap morde viable
You're just being an elitist again.
it doesn't matter what her win rate is in challenger because you can't make decisions based on low sample
OH, REALLY?
So you take an extremely small sample of about 1% of the community, cut off the bottom two divisions from that tier (which is blatantly impossible to do given that no stats sites allows you to divide information by divisions) to make it even smaller, and start cooking up "facts" while dismissing players that are blatantly better than the elo range you're making alternative facts for? Because of a SMALL SAMPLE SIZE? REALLY!?
Mental gymnastics, much?
you can just take a look at her gameplay and see if something is busted or not
The WHOLE POINT of my long paragraph from about 2 posts ago is that it's incredibly difficult to see just how much old enchanters provide in a match, which is part of why I dislike their design in this day and age. Janna's contributions don't kill you. They stop you. They seal leads. They stop snowballs. They break your make-or-break moments. They're low-key enough that people let her fly on by, but strong enough to silently win her matches way more than she loses them. In ANY elo, and it's LITERALLY PROVEN by the type of people that gave you the same information that LB generally loses more than she wins. If you think different, PROVE it, don't just say it. I proved my claims. If you can't see it, get glasses or contacts. Just stop trying to overnerf LB. She's balanced all the way up to challenger, which is proved in my previous link as well (100 wins/50% win rate challenger elo).
janna is last picked in pro play, janna is not dominating the support role in pro play IT'S THE SAME THING IN HIGH DIAMOND
Literally like talking to bricks, yet I do it.
"I can't actually look up the difference between divisions in game statistics, but I'ma make the claim that Janna is never picked in higher Diamond tiers when all signs say otherwise. WHY? Just cause. No evidence. No data. Just me. Watch me denounce all these numbers disproving me right quick."
Just face it: You don't have a point. You're just whining about LB.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes
Bans : 716
Picks : 390
Presence : 43.5%
Win rate : 218W - 172L
55.9 % KDA : 2.6 CS/min : 1.3 DPM : 279
all of pro play for season 7
he is a fairly common pick in pro play
as for as 
you are correct
Ahristocats3 voteswho the fuck cares about all pro play of season 7?
are you serious right now? we're playing in 7.14 in pro, not 7.6
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 voteswell if you are gonna say a champ is or isnt played at least be correct with the information
presence % ranks 15th for this season of all champs in pro play
presence % ranks 1st at 70% for this season for all champs in pro play
Penns1 votes"this season" was back when malz was a support tho
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteswhy does role matter?
he was a contested pick and had a big presence in the game at the pro scene
Ahristocats2 votesbecause he was busted and nerfed? he's only a pub stomper now, no one picks him in competition anymore
in 7.14 he got picked like 2 times midlane
nothing is stronger than ori syndra taliyah leblanc corki cass, they all deserve nerfs, other midlaners deserve buffs
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesits not about role... its about strength of champ in competitive play
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesWin rate in role matters because data can be spewed because a champion may excel in one role but when put in to another lane he may just get stomped because they lack something or just simply vulnerable to counter matchups.
It's very common to see a champion win rate be high in one role but when looked at other roles it falls off so when looking at that you need to look at data from a specific role rather than all around especially when looking at LCS since pros are better at punishing off roles or lower tier picks.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesrole dont matter in this discussion
i posted the stats of malz he had the 15th highest presence % of all of pro play
the OP was saying that you dont see him played in pro play... the OP point was strength of champ at competiitve play and why its worthy of being nerfed brough up mal saying champ isnt played i simply stated that champ is played. and provided the stats to back it up
Ahristocats2 votesyou don't see him ANYMORE
what the hell can't you understand with this?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesyet he still ranks 15th in presence
not 50th like he wasnt a heavy contested pick/ban
you were the one who brought him up... not me
Ahristocats2 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QJQsAkEO,comment-id=000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-29T16:03:49.626+0000)
yet he still ranks 15th in presence
http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/picksandbans.php?season=S7&tournament=ALL&patch=7.14
https://i.gyazo.com/4281fed9ab7a117c4dbdeef8e10b34f8.png
either you're the dumbest dude on earth, or you're manipulating everyone on purpose
malzahar got NERFED IN THE PAST and now in 7.14, he's an invisible midlaner, he's garbage in pro play
he doesn't need nerfs anymore, he's trash compared to the other mages listed above WHO need a nerf
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesnever said he need nerfs...
you state he isnt picked in pro play which simply wasnt true... thats all
im not arguing whether or not LB does or dont need nerfs
but yet you want to result to insults by saying im the dumbest dude on earth and say im manipulating people .
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesIt's the context of being played mid versus overall play, why would he create a thread about LeBlanc then use Malzahar as an example, most of Malz play time came as support this season anyways.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesi didnt bring up Malz
regardless of where he was played...
lb is getting nerfs due to her pick/ban and win% at pro level and thats fine im not arguing anything at all with that
be the op stated malz wasnt picked in pro play... i simply stated he was and had a big presence
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesWell yes.
But anyways yes she's getting nerfed because of that and she's heavily prioritized in NA compared to other regions.
Kariu Rena2 votesLol yeah its pretty cancerous to see this board defending this broken ass champion and calling her balanced LUL
Catastrop1 votesLmao what boards are you on? Nobody defends LB, if anything they're using the winrate to get Riot to do something about this awful "rework".
Kariu Rena1 votesmaybe you need to open your god damn eyes LUL
nm10101 votesI've said in multiple Leblanc threads the past few days that she is an unhealthy play style and needs changes, in basically all of them I got mass downvoted. With decent farming and/or a kill or two you get a gunblade at ~15 minutes, at this point in the game you can literally run bot lane and one combo the adc or support with q rq maybe an e or second q depending on runes/summoners they have.
After this you can use your mobility to kill them over and over and over again. Outside of you making poor decisions or messing up there isn't really a way for the enemy to counterplay this unless they got outrageously fed.
Shoot even a revolver is good enough to burst from ~ 75% :P
Catastrop1 votesWhy does it matter if she doesn't have a 45% winrate? Doesn't change the fact that this rework was hot garbage either way. Also doesn't change the fact that her playstyle has devolved to even more unhealthy levels compared to pre-rework. At least pre-rework LB had risks, this one now uses W as a pure mobility tool and jukes everything you can throw at(bar targetted attacks obviously). I just looked at the PBE and what is this, the 4/5th nerf to her waveclear, I've honestly lost track at this point.
Ahristocats1 votesnever said her rework was good
said those who think she doesn't need nerfs are delusional
PimpStickNasus1 votesWhat website was the screenshot in op from. I like the layout of it and wanna visit it
