Why Does It Seem Riot Hates Mana???

VvVVvV··4 votes·932 views

This is a serious question and I really hope to see someone official explain this to me.

It just seems to me the even though most of the champs in the game use mana, Riot seems to have something against mana.

  1. When they changed Sorakas kit, they took away he ability to give mana......this ability made her so unique because she was the only champ that could do it. And with the right items you could have a build that let you do everything every support in the game could do except stun and polymorph someone. With the right items you could heal, give mana, shield yourself or teammates, slow enemies, speed boost yourself and teammates & silence enemies. To me she was a beast back then and by far my favorite support to use........now i only use her when my adc requests her.

  2. They removed mana pots from the game. I dont remember if this was done at the same time Soraka had her mana ability removed or shortly after that change. But why? Over half your champs use mana and some champs being created lately have very high mana costs like Taliyah.

I do sort of think they realized removing the pots was bad which is why I think we now have item 2033 .

30 Comments

LaserDeathBlade4 votes

Because they don't want you spamming shit endlessly that wasn't meant to be spammed endlessly.

If you played earlier seasons of LoL you'd remember the Graves Soraka lane where Graves would just QW the wave endlessly and would never miss a CS and would never be denied. The only possible outcome of that lane was either Graves kills you a lot and has perfect CS, or Graves just has perfect CS.

Same principle applies to a lot of champions that might just 'skip' laning phase by stocking up mana pots and spamming.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Yorick Starting with nothing but mana and health pots. Nightmare fuel man.

lilpokfluf4 votes

They don't hate mana. They hate mana regen

Ralanr2 votes

Considering how much longer it takes for mana to come back in the fountain in comparison to health, I can see that.

Catastrop3 votes

Actually, mana regens at the same rate as health in the fountain, it's just that in most cases, we B with little to no mana so the wait is longer. One of the reasons I kind of loathe resourceless champions just the tiniest bit.

Ralanr1 votes

Makes sense on both accounts.

Aatrox Mid 1v53 votes

Because mana is a weakness ment to stop a champion from being so strong. just imagine a syndra with no mana. She would be able to clear minion waves perfectly and not miss a single cs. also she wouldnt have to worry about if she has enough mana to use her q w e r combo. Mana to me is similar to gnar's passive. When in mini gnar, he takes a shit on most tanks. mega gnar is meant to stop him from being so strong in mini gnar and also gives him bonuses to compensate for that.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Oh so zed & yasou then, lol.

Ralanr1 votes

Giving Zed mana would mean he wouldn't have to chain abilities in certain ways to get energy back quickly.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Oh no, he wouldn't be able to chain kill an entire team by himself, whatever would he do to compete?

Ralanr3 votes

...I have never seen a Zed do that.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

It was more common before they cut his ult in half, making half of it an item; duskblade of draktharr, and when he could use his shadow swapping immediately after his ultimate.

Spicy Rice1 votes

He still couldn't take out a (competent) team by himself, not even at his strongest point

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Got a video or some kind of other proof that he couldn't when he started to snowball?

Spicy Rice1 votes

In sorry, but how exactly do I prove that?

Can you prove that he could consistently 1v5 a team when ahead? (I'm assuming you are talking about higher elos btw)

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Videos on youtube are dated, and since riot does seasons as a yearly basis, some general time-frame is close enough; doesn't have to be your own obviously. To give you an idea of what I'm expecting, lets say we were arguing about how powerful garen was at the time of the juggernaut patch. A video that could be used might be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CuFdwQEJyY

Also to be frank, I don't care about elos; the esports games bore me since it's the same 2 dozen champs, I have a few friends in platinum and some more in bronze, and I'm unranked. I both experience and observe game-changing impacts on both ends of the spectrum. Yes there's some hilarious differences (such as banning nami or banning malzahar), but there's some consistency between them; mobility & burst often make or break it. Kalista was an obvious problem for the game after she came out, as she was frequently painful to fight against across the board. Back to regarding zed, this guy gets close https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLmDUvXwiU

Spicy Rice1 votes

While it is true busted champs are broken in any elo, my point was that different champs are broken in different elos as well.

For example, katarina is notorious for being a pubstomper, able to get penta after penta against players with low experience or mechanical skill

However, she is rarely if ever played in higher elos due to them having knowledge and the skill necessary to make her useless.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

And conversely some are more oppressive higher up the ranking, again kalista as most new players have no idea how to play her or with her.

Aatrox Mid 1v52 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QBmeWTtn,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-25T13:57:09.962+0000)

Oh so zed & yasou then, lol.

well zed falls off past 35 minutes and yasuo, well he has no weakness... hehe xd

Aatrox Mid 1v51 votes

and also you cant just completely spam zeds abilitites, for example if you use your w e q combo and see you do a shit ton of damage you cant ult right after, because you wont have enough energy for your abilitites and they will be on cd as well.

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

Energy has always been the more consistent for spam potential over mana though; it has a low cap that can't be increased (100 unless you get runes), but recharges ~10 energy/second (again unless you upgrade it with runes). So while zed (leesin & kennen) cannot use all their abilities simultaneously, they usually only have to wait a few seconds between any given ability; but they also have some kind of energy return mechanic built into their kits, so that if they combo in specific ways, they can shortcut this brief downtime anyway. Most mages have around 450 mana, but often only regenerate 1/second (after the mage 'update'); so while they could use a full rotation of abilities at once, afterwords they have to wait close to 30 seconds to cast ANY ability. However what mage naturally has part of their kit that specifically returns significant extra mana? (swain & xerath tend to stack mana regen anyway) I'd rather yasou run on energy (or a few examples of flow I've seen) than be entirely resource-less for how much he can do.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Yeah I agree; yasou & ekko should be reworked (minorly) to be either assassins, or tanks; they're overloaded with abilities from both sides that makes them abusable & painful to deal with.

Ralanr2 votes

Yasuo tank? What?

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Thanks to his double critical chance bandaid passive, he only needs 2 items to criticaly hit on every auto attack; I've fought against several in the past year, that grab obviously tank only items after some critical chance items, and it's just as much of a chore as tank ekko. And like ekko, parts of his kit are better suited for tanks or supports because of their utility; ontop of high base damage potential meaning he doesn't need offensive items to kill people anyway, which is why tank ekko became a thing, only a matter of time for yasou to do the same.

Spicy Rice1 votes

That's because building tank on yasuo is the only viable path atm. If he went full damage, he gets blown up so fast it's hilarious

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Isn't that what his dash & windwall is for? To out-skill the enemy instead of just click to win?

Spicy Rice1 votes

Yes, in 1v1 situations, but with the nerfing of tp, the buffing of mages and marksmen and the downfall of tanks, yasuo is forced to team fight more than ever, and often has to be in the very front to be effective

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Forced to teamfight? What happened to split pushing, or stealing jungle farm, or even just warding around the map? In a teamfight he can also be patient, waiting for the enemy to mess up instead of running in ham & cheese style; he plays more like an assassin than a bruiser from what I've seen, no matter the items. Perhaps you'd be better off playing darius?

Quepha1 votes

Mana feels the best it ever has in the game since the Mage Rework. Tear feels like a really powerful solution to mana problems, Morellonomicon makes a meaningful transition from mana/level to mana resets for the late game, Catalyst items give you sustain and all these mana items actually synergize with each other.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

  1. When they changed Sorakas kit, they took away he ability to give mana......this ability made her so unique because she was the only champ that could do it. And with the right items you could have a build that let you do everything every support in the game could do except stun and polymorph someone. With the right items you could heal, give mana, shield yourself or teammates, slow enemies, speed boost yourself and teammates & silence enemies.

And there you have it. She let you cover EVERY weakness a lane-mate had, and removed the concern about running out of mana from lane-bullies like Ezreal, Miss Fortune, Varus, Corki, etc. She had a reputation for being a toxic "infinite sustain" battery for both health AND spell use, which wasn't fun to play against.

  1. They removed mana pots from the game. I dont remember if this was done at the same time Soraka had her mana ability removed or shortly after that change. But why? Over half your champs use mana and some champs being created lately have very high mana costs like Taliyah.

This change is actually so they could adjust mana-users based on NOT having mana pots, interestingly enough. Including them required that all mana costs had to take them into account, so anyone NOT buying them felt weak, and buying them became a tax on ability use -- or buying them gave you too MUCH lane power, and thus made you overpowered.

Removing them lets them go back and make cost / mana pool adjustments to characters who feel problematic, which is better for balance in the long run.

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