So F@kin Tired of These Damn Robots

VvVVvV·May 1, 2016·86 votes·6,410 views

Why do people act like they cant think for themselves. They think there is only 1 way to play this game?

just went through a champ selection where our Top had to dodge in a ranked game just because he wanted to top Shaco.

He was locked in and the other 3 people on our team told him they were going to report him unsportsmanlike........just because he was top shaco? wtf

So he dodged.

They wanted him to be a tank. This is what the game has become. People are stuck in this robotic way of thinking there is only one way to play this game. So when they see something different they are quick to report.

I bet if the game went on and this Shaco carried their a$$es they would be sitting there with that di@k face looking stupid.

Edit: For those of you wanting more "context" this guy was 1st pick and locked in. So there was no "pick what the team needs" option. There are 2 other spots to have your tanks if you feel you NEED one. support and jungle.

People act like they have never won a game without a tank before....or that they cant play a untanky champ tanky.

If you feel that way you should see my Hiemer top lane build....its a tank build and i just walk around my turrets while people attack me thinking they will kill me quick all awhile my turrets are killing them. Then i dance a headspin on their dead bodies.

163 Comments

Photos of GhostsMay 1, 201646 votes

He didn't need to dodge, he should have screenshotted and sent in a support ticket. Don't EVER fear unjustified reports.

VvVVvVMay 1, 20164 votes

True....but he did dodge and lost LP because of their threats and i just thought it was complete BS.

WimbledofyMay 2, 20168 votes

if he didn't dodge his team would have tilted. They were already going in to a game with a negative attitude. Dodging = 1-5 lp lost, losing game = 10-30 (or however much)

GuiltyGeckoMay 2, 20165 votes

Call it a sense of Justice, but I personally don't dodge when threatened in queue. I don't blame anyone that does dodge, but for me, I can sacrifice some LP to report those people. I don't want players like that to feel like they can just get away with that behavior. That they can be bullies and the community will just bend over for them.

Getting that message from Riot saying someone has been banned thanks to my reports makes me Kreygasm.

RavenhaleMay 1, 201631 votes

There's nothing wrong with Shaco Top if you have a team that can support that. If I see a Shaco top and our Jungler isn't a Tank, then I'll take a Tank support. If I see a Shaco top and our Support isn't a Tank, then I'll take a Tank jungler. It's not that complicated. That's the team not having flexible players. It's not report worthy.

Some people try to only stick with one champion and will play them in either role they picked as options. If I see a Shaco top, I'd assume he went Top/Jungle and got Top. It's not troll. It's a guy that probably plays his best game with Shaco. Do I really want this guy playing a Tank champion he isn't as good with and will possibly lose lane hard so I have to deal with a Fed enemy top laner while having a tank that is so far behind that they are useless in team fights?

Athenes LuluMay 1, 201620 votes

I think you misspelled sheep.

Trust me, even if you pick "meta" picks and don't play or build a certain way, they'd flame you anyways.

It Hertz When IPMay 2, 20164 votes

I got flamed for building Veigar without Void Staff once.... enemy team had built exactly zero MR beside the tank.

WinBoatMay 1, 201611 votes

Sorry, but I'd probably report him too for top Shaco. It's a troll pick, especially in ranked play. If you gonna play Shaco, then play him jungle. It's no different than taking Janna jungle in ranked. It shouldn't happen. His intended role is jungle, his best role is jungle.

I would prefer a tank myself, or an actual top laner.

redniwediSMay 1, 201624 votes

Any champion can be a "troll pick". All that is required is that the player intends to troll.

There is no such thing as a champion who is a troll pick if the player does not intend to troll. People thinking like this are part of the reason trying "different" things is frowned upon.

If you practice a non-meta champion to the point where you are willing to play them in ranked you should be allowed to do it, and anyone who threatens you over it should receive harsher than normal punishments. That's just my opinion of course, they would likely just receive regular punishments.

WinBoatMay 1, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Any champion can be a "troll pick". All that is required is that the player intends to troll.

There is no such thing as a champion who is a troll pick if the player does not intend to troll. People thinking like this are part of the reason trying "different" things is frowned upon.

If you practice a non-meta champion to the point where you are willing to play them in ranked you should be allowed to do it, and anyone who threatens you over it should receive harsher than normal punishments. That's just my opinion of course, they would likely just receive regular punishments.

Cool, I hope you get Bard mids, and Janna jungles every game, I bet you would be back here crying about it within minutes,

And Janna jungle is a troll pick. There are legit troll picks. Shaco top will never work out well in ranked play.

Lazypeon100May 1, 201620 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-01T20:53:54.723+0000)

Cool, I hope you get Bard mids, and Janna jungles every game, I bet you would be back here crying about it within minutes,

And Janna jungle is a troll pick. There are legit troll picks. Shaco top will never work out well in ranked play.

Erm. Shaco top isn't a troll pick bud. Is it optimal? No. But putting that on the level of janna jungle is laughable.

And if I saw a jungle janna who tried seriously I wouldn't report them either. I've seen bard jungles rock people. I've seen no ADC comps work, etc. Are they optimal? No. Are they trolling? Only if that is their intent, otherwise no.

Hell, people see champs for their intended role as troll picks depending on the champ. Take Yorick top for example, many people will call you a troll even though you just want to play the champion.

WinBoatMay 1, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Erm. Shaco top isn't a troll pick bud. Is it optimal? No. But putting that on the level of janna jungle is laughable.

And if I saw a jungle janna who tried seriously I wouldn't report them either. I've seen bard jungles rock people. I've seen no ADC comps work, etc. Are they optimal? No. Are they trolling? Only if that is their intent, otherwise no.

Hell, people see champs for their intended role as troll picks depending on the champ. Take Yorick top for example, many people will call you a troll even though you just want to play the champion.

Sorry but it's a troll pick. I don't care if you disagree or not. I know what I know and even responding back to you is useless cause you guys can't get it through your heads.

It's a troll pick cause 9/10, it's a loss. It's not gonna work. In LCS play? It WILL NOT work. So yeah, a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, that shouldn't convince you that there isn't anything wrong with that picture. A Janna jungle is a troll pick. The chances are very low of winning, even in Bronze ranked, it's low. That includes Bard.

So yeah, Shaco top is a troll pick. Normally Shaco top is supposed to be the off meta fun picks, nothing serious. Keep that pout of ranked. I don't care if you are master level 5, and will try, the chances are still low.

I love how you guys disagree with facts. That's the thing I never understood about the gaming community and disagreements mostly on the internet is that people refuse to agree.

If you think Shaco top is not a troll pick, then owell, to me it's a troll pick, and I will report that person in ranked play if they were to do that, especially if someone told them not to.

Lazypeon100May 1, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-01T21:15:19.783+0000)

Sorry but it's a troll pick. I don't care if you disagree or not. I know what I know and even responding back to you is useless cause you guys can't get it through your heads.

It's a troll pick cause 9/10, it's a loss. It's not gonna work. In LCS play? It WILL NOT work. So yeah, a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, that shouldn't convince you that there isn't anything wrong with that picture. A Janna jungle is a troll pick. The chances are very low of winning, even in Bronze ranked, it's low. That includes Bard.

So yeah, Shaco top is a troll pick. Normally Shaco top is supposed to be the off meta fun picks, nothing serious. Keep that pout of ranked. I don't care if you are master level 5, and will try, the chances are still low.

I love how you guys disagree with facts. That's the thing I never understood about the gaming community and disagreements mostly on the intternet is that people refuse to agree.

If you think Shaco top is not a troll pick, then owell, to me it's a troll pick, and I will report that person in ranked play if they were to do that, especially if someone told them not to.

... Simply stating it is a fact does not make it so. We are not LCS. Literally just about anything will work if you put the time and effort into it. That player doesn't deserve to be flamed / reported because people didn't like his pick.

Also, off meta picks are not against the rules. It isn't a bannable offense. You can feel free to report, but nothing will come of it.

What happens if you pick a champ for their intended role and their win rate is really low? Do I get free reign to call you a troll for your pick?

In my view, the answer is no. If that player isn't intentionally going out of their way to ruin the game for 9 other people, they are not trolling. Riot doesn't agree with you, and neither does the community.

But thanks for the casual insult. I understood what you were saying it "got through my head." I simply disagree with you.

WinBoatMay 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

... Simply stating it is a fact does not make it so. We are not LCS. Literally just about anything will work if you put the time and effort into it. That player doesn't deserve to be flamed / reported because people didn't like his pick.

Also, off meta picks are not against the rules. It isn't a bannable offense. You can feel free to report, but nothing will come of it.

What happens if you pick a champ for their intended role and their win rate is really low? Do I get free reign to call you a troll for your pick?

In my view, the answer is no. If that player isn't intentionally going out of their way to ruin the game for 9 other people, they are not trolling. Riot doesn't agree with you, and neither does the community.

But thanks for the casual insult. I understood what you were saying it "got through my head." I simply disagree with you.

It's a troll pick. I'm gonna keep saying that. Also Janna jungle will never work in lcs ever. So you are wrong when you say if someone put enough time into it that it will pay off and of course I already knew and predicted you were going to say "we aren't lcs". That may be true, but what I said applies to high tier play as well. Sure maybe here and there in bronze you can get away with it, but essentially you are having people carry you for such a bad pick that's almost a auto loss in that role.

Shaco top in ranked is ruining the game for a lot of people on that team. I know you probably main Shaco this is why you so defensive about it.

I won't report someone for playing a low win rate champion if they go to their truly intended role. I hate having Ashe's and twitches on my team, but I won't report them.

Lazypeon100May 1, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-01T21:30:32.684+0000)

It's a troll pick. I'm gonna keep saying that. Also Janna jungle will never work in lcs ever. So you are wrong when you say if someone put enough time into it that it will pay off and of course I already knew and predicted you were going to say "we aren't lcs". That may be true, but what I said applies to high tier play as well. Sure maybe here and there in bronze you can get away with it, but essentially you are having people carry you for such a bad pick that's almost a auto loss in that role.

Shaco top in ranked is ruining the game for a lot of people on that team. I know you probably main Shaco this is why you so defensive about it.

I won't report someone for playing a low win rate champion if they go to their truly intended role. I hate having Ashe's and twitches on my team, but I won't report them.

I don't play shaco at all dude lol. To be frank, I'm bad with him. I'm casually playing in plat at the moment, highest I've ever been was D5 which I dropped out of because I didn't belong there.

Even in high tiers, I've seen people play things like Urgot mid (honestly he does better there than he does top) and do well. I think it was back in S3 there was a team competing in a high end korean tournament that won with Jungle Heimerdinger of all things.

You can say it's a troll pick, that's fine. It doesn't make you right. LCS has done plenty of things that would have been considered troll picks, if i wasn't for the fact that LCS was doing it.

Or back at the end of S2 there was proxy singed where the whole point was to fight behind enemy turrets and die while forcing 3+ to fight you.

Your definition of trolly doesn't make much sense is my problem.

bill84May 2, 20165 votes

You have some good points. When C9 (i think it's C9) picks lucian top, people accept that even though lucian top is no less trolly than Shaco top

billxxMay 2, 20162 votes

I didn't know c9 didn't have a read on the meta

Troll for TrumpMay 2, 20162 votes

Yes but there's a strong borderline between troll pick and offmeta pick. Urgot anywhere is fine. Going bot as urgot is probably the weakest option. Yorick is weak(personally), but passable, though his impact heavily relies on the strength of the ADC. Heck, I played Brand, Velkoz and LB Top back in S3(Lb had silence back then, I apoligize to any top laners that had to face it). In S4 I was doing a ton of offmeta stuff and didn't really do ranked.

But doing Janna jgl, doing Janna "Roam" is trolling. AP Draven. Ap Darius. That's trolling.

Lazypeon100May 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes but there's a strong borderline between troll pick and offmeta pick. Urgot anywhere is fine. Going bot as urgot is probably the weakest option. Yorick is weak(personally), but passable, though his impact heavily relies on the strength of the ADC. Heck, I played Brand, Velkoz and LB Top back in S3(Lb had silence back then, I apoligize to any top laners that had to face it). In S4 I was doing a ton of offmeta stuff and didn't really do ranked.

But doing Janna jgl, doing Janna "Roam" is trolling. AP Draven. Ap Darius. That's trolling.

AP draven / Darius would be trolling because they literally cannot work with AP. Jungle Janna could work if whoever does is dedicated enough to it and does well.

My point though I was trying to make though about the LCS argument is that there have been plenty of things that would be "trolly" until LCS actually did it.

I'll note, I don't think it's exactly a good idea to go off meta for the sake of it. I think it's okay though if you do it, with the intention of doing well and winning. I saw an AP caitlyn and an AP lucian do well before. Do I think those are good builds for them? No. But I'm going to reserve judgment til after the game, how they did, and how they ACTED which I think is most important. So long as they actually try, I don't really care what you're trying out so long as your build actually scales with your kit, or work in some other way.

Troll for TrumpMay 2, 20161 votes

Sometimes people do try to do well, but at the same time try to provoke people into reacting. They can't be punished but those that react can.

Can't post names so...

Anyways, the guy's a youtuber who's pretty wellknown. I think he's as toxic as Dunkey; Not as much as Tyler1, but still pretty bad.

Lazypeon100May 2, 20161 votes

If someone is purposefully provoking others, they should also be punished imo.

Basically, my view is just don't be an ass to people. I'm not sure who you are talking about, as I don't actually care much for LCS / league you tubers.

Troll for TrumpMay 2, 20161 votes

Toned down a bit, but..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0diLUy56Is

Like, he's basically refusing to support, leaving the ADC to 1v2, and then laughing at the ADC for getting pissed about it. It's old, and he has stopped doing it but still.

You can do these type of things presently and not be banned.

Lazypeon100May 2, 20163 votes

I just watched a bit of that video, and many of his team mates were raging at him before the game even started. Heck, at high elos roaming support is basically what you do anyway, roam during opportune times to gank other lanes.

People were raging at him pretty much the whole time when he was doing well, and wasn't actively yelling at them or anything of the sort. To be frank, his team mates seemed more toxic than he was.

Lazypeon100May 3, 20162 votes

He stated right in the lobby what his intentions were. His team mates would get mad, even though everyone else would get fed.

Supports roam in high ratings anyway. They are supposed to support their bot lane and roam when they have spare time, he opted to just roam. There's nothing wrong with that if you're trying your best and finding success in it, which he was.

The only people being toxic were his team mates.

Troll for TrumpMay 3, 20162 votes

So it's ok for me to go duo jgl and smite all the things the jgler wants, and make him pissed as long as I act like he does?

Lazypeon100May 3, 20161 votes

No, because you'd be intentionally hurting your team mate. What you're suggesting is the idea of being able to purposefully screw your team over, and be okay for it so long as you don't say anything.

And I think that's where our misunderstanding / disagreement is. Because that janna isn't purposefully screwing over anyone. He's not stealing kills, CS, preventing people being able to play, etc. Why can't he roam? This quite literally happens at top levels of play anyway.

Troll for TrumpMay 4, 20161 votes

I'm not intentionally hurting. I'm not trying to hurt, I'm trying to share xp and get buffs, that way we can coordinate ganks or split off and gank two lanes.

Janna is purposefully screwing over bot lane ADC by forcingher to 1v2, letting her get shat on by opponents, lose Xp, and have a unpleasant experience.

RottedApplesMay 2, 20161 votes

Nautilus : Whats my intended role?

WinBoatMay 2, 20161 votes

I don't understand... Naut is viable in lots of lanes. Shaco is not. JANNA JUNGLE IS NOT.

If you can't understand that, then well, I have nothing more to say to you.

elon wątrobaMay 2, 20168 votes

Nautilius was considered troll pick as support/top and his only role was jungle back then.

EvilRabbittMay 2, 20161 votes

I think TBEN (too long a name to type correctly) should look up Shaclone and Pink Ward. And Stonewall. :D All of them are educational.

elon wątrobaMay 3, 20161 votes

I haven't been watching any of these. I'm just a old player, playing since very late season 1.

FatalitýMay 2, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-01T20:35:18.144+0000)

Sorry, but I'd probably report him too for top Shaco. It's a troll pick, especially in ranked play. If you gonna play Shaco, then play him jungle. It's no different than taking Janna jungle in ranked. It shouldn't happen. His intended role is jungle, his best role is jungle.

I would prefer a tank myself, or an actual top laner.

is that why Pink Ward an AP Shaco top player got to diamond with just Shaco?

PoskeMay 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im ChaIIenger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-05-02T00:00:57.242+0000)

is that why Pink Ward an AP Shaco top player got to diamond with just Shaco?

What people dont understand is that reaching diamond is possible with any champion Ap ez can do it (Tbh this can probably reach diamond1) Ap shaco can do it Ad xin zhao top can do it ad nocturn top can do it ad shaco top can do it

Reaching diamond is possible with literaly every champion . It was possible even with urgot when he was urgoted

As long as champion has 42 ish winrate you can reach diamond with it

You can never reach master tier with ap shaco therfore it is a trollpick

However reaching high diamond with ad shaco is possible heck my bro did it reaching diamond2

Ad janna jungle could never even reach diamond..

Spacesuit SpiffMay 2, 20169 votes

Ive seen this done. The shaco did well, so his team started trollling so they wouldnt be carried by a "trollpick". Ridiculous.

JbelsMay 1, 20164 votes

I would be fine with Shaco top in a normal. But ranked is supposed to be serious. You bring your best, or you get wrecked.

redniwediSMay 1, 201612 votes

The point the OP is making is that it's not your team's job to tell you what your best is. That Shaco player is the only one who should be able to decide if top Shaco is something he is capable of playing in a ranked setting of his skill level.

The team does have some say when it comes to team composition, but each individual player has the final say over whether they will conform a team composition or not. There are three lanes that can fill the tank/initiation role after all.

JbelsMay 1, 20166 votes

{quoted}

The point the OP is making is that it's not your team's job to tell you what your best is. That Shaco player is the only one who should be able to decide if top Shaco is something he is capable of playing in a ranked setting of his skill level.

The team does have some say when it comes to team composition, but each individual player has the final say over whether they will conform a team composition or not. There are three lanes that can fill the tank/initiation role after all.

I once said it was the job of every ranked player to be mindful of what they pick, and try to pick what's best for the team. That post was universally downvoted and I had to deal with a bunch of people telling me "I can pick whatever the fuck I want, the rest of the team should have to build around my pick." I wonder how that shit goes when all 5 people in the champ select think in that same way...

WinBoatMay 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I once said it was the job of every ranked player to be mindful of what they pick, and try to pick what's best for the team. That post was universally downvoted and I had to deal with a bunch of people telling me "I can pick whatever the fuck I want, the rest of the team should have to build around my pick." I wonder how that shit goes when all 5 people in the champ select think in that same way...

The hypocrisy in league is hilarious. They all say " I can pick whoever I want, or let him play whoever he wants" but yet they cry for more bans. How about you let your enemy team play their best champions and what they want huh? Lets remove the banning process.

"Let him play what he wants, it's just norms" apparently now everyone is saying on this thread "let him play what he wants, it's just RANKED". Lol... people make up your minds.

I just had the most toxic game in my life today. I banned someones champion, and it was a 4 man premade that all reported me, but they made sure to go Janna top, soraka mid and so on and gave Yasuo a quadra kill before the minions spawned. The kill score was like 100-3 with me having the kills lol.... They kept purposely feeding just cause I banned one of their champions. It's funny how everyone is so toxic in league.

RavenhaleMay 1, 20163 votes

71 to 11.

Heh, Rengar had 32 kills that game. Pantheon built 5 Mobi boots and still had the most kills on the team (4). Your CS was 47. The rest of your team's combined CS was 35.

At least it was a Normal.

WinBoatMay 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

71 to 11.

Heh, Rengar had 32 kills that game. Pantheon built 5 Mobi boots and still had the most kills on the team (4). Your CS was 47. The rest of your team's combined CS was 35.

At least it was a Normal.

Oh yeah, they had a couple kills because the other team felt sorry and let them kill them since it was game and started fountain diving for fun. Literally got 4 man premade trolled cause I banned someones champion that I didn't feel like playing with just cause I wasn't feeling it. They instantly said enjoy 20 minutes of your life wasted and constantly talked smack. Was hilarious tho, I recorded some of the footage with fraps. I was simply placing smiley faces and being nice lol in the game too.

I couldn't CS cause everyone was so fed, so I didn't bother jungling, why should i? Anyhow, reported them all for intentionally feeding, and being toxic, they won't be banned. Since they were a premade, they convinced the whole other team to report me, luckily I did nothing wrong, so not gonna be punished for it.

Anyhow, worst toxic game I've seen so far. And yeah I just been playing normals and waiting for solo que, i tried the DQ and lost a ton and went from like Bronze 1 to B3 all in one period cause I didn't want to stop and refused to let DQ win although it did... So I'll just keep the low win rate in ranked for now. In normals my MMR is probably around 1500 assuming cause if you go to lolking.net i consistently get paired with golds and some plats. The MMR-com website had me at 20% better than silver 1 players until today it dropped to 18% better than Silver 2. Owell, assuming my correct rank is around platinum level, it's just a matter of going back to rank play sometime which I don't want to currently.

LiveYiOrDieHardMay 2, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6pxpELjH,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-01T22:09:10.827+0000)

Oh yeah, they had a couple kills because the other team felt sorry and let them kill them since it was game and started fountain diving for fun. Literally got 4 man premade trolled cause I banned someones champion that I didn't feel like playing with just cause I wasn't feeling it. They instantly said enjoy 20 minutes of your life wasted and constantly talked smack. Was hilarious tho, I recorded some of the footage with fraps. I was simply placing smiley faces and being nice lol in the game too.

I couldn't CS cause everyone was so fed, so I didn't bother jungling, why should i? Anyhow, reported them all for intentionally feeding, and being toxic, they won't be banned. Since they were a premade, they convinced the whole other team to report me, luckily I did nothing wrong, so not gonna be punished for it.

Anyhow, worst toxic game I've seen so far. And yeah I just been playing normals and waiting for solo que, i tried the DQ and lost a ton and went from like Bronze 1 to B3 all in one period cause I didn't want to stop and refused to let DQ win although it did... So I'll just keep the low win rate in ranked for now. In normals my MMR is probably around 1500 assuming cause if you go to lolking.net i consistently get paired with golds and some plats. The MMR-com website had me at 20% better than silver 1 players until today it dropped to 18% better than Silver 2. Owell, assuming my correct rank is around platinum level, it's just a matter of going back to rank play sometime which I don't want to currently.

You banned someone's champion and expected them not to troll? Are you really that dense?

Mickey DonnerudoMay 1, 20169 votes

I have over 400k mastery on Garen and I have gotten shrekt by a Shaco top before. If you know your champion, you can make even weird things work.

LatetotheRaceMay 2, 20164 votes

To be fair though, shaco top is horrible. Besides, higher tier players will dodge in a horrible queue, the 3-9 lp loss is better than a 20 lp loss.

OhWandererMay 2, 20163 votes

ya ... going top shaco into a possible tank is a big "camp my lane" sign for the enemy jungler. he doesnt snowball well and he is not very helpful in team fights.

LauchmelderMay 2, 20163 votes

Nocturne (to me): Go tank Support I lock in Annie

Later: I ping for help because they overextend without wards. Nocturne: Don't tell me what to do.

Hypocrisy much.

Urgonnalearn2dayMay 2, 20163 votes

9/10 top shaco would be garbage. Also if the team desperately needs a tank, why go shaco?

Only Play DariusMay 2, 20162 votes

Top Shaco is a cheese pick based entirely on putting someone else on tilt. Maybe your teammates have been victim of that and refuse to see it done to another human being.