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People Please Stop Forcing People To Play Unwinnable Games

VvVVvV··106 votes·5,872 views

If the game is clearly lost please VOTE YES.

Yes there are times when you can come from behind and win but you have to be able to tell the difference between just being behind and the game being over.

What led to this post is a prime example of being held hostage by people that can not tell the difference.

6 minutes into the game 0-2-0 ADC baby rages and AFK quits all while top is repeatedly dying trying to fight soon as he gets back to lane. 9 minutes in top is now 0-6. ADC still AFK. 12 minutes into game I ask team to please vote yes when its time. 15 minutes in its still 4v5, down 9-19, all lanes down in cs and the early vote still fails. 20 minutes mark its still 4v5, down 9-22, we have been stuck in our base past 6 minutes straight and the vote still fails 2-2 25 minute mark......by this time the enemy team is just BMing and not even trying to win...we get a few kills only because they literally just stand still taunting waiting til they are half health right before they smash us. 27 minutes finally other team stops playing around and finishes the game after they got a free baron.

This game almost went twice as long as it needed to. Unless you are in your promo series there is no need to play this situation out.

Edit: its funny to me how many people are posting comments as if they are just reading the title of the post and not even reading the post. So many people talking about voting no because someone wants to quit just because they are having a bad game. That is not what this post is about. Its about people that are voting no because they cant tell the difference in a game that you still have a legit chance at winning or one that is absolutely over. There is a big difference between 1 player having a rough game and wanting to surrender than a game where 1 player raged quit and went afk and on top of that you have another player basically inting and everyone is down levels and gold.

185 Comments

k wìx59 votes

Counterpoint: Please stop trying to surrender when the game is still completely winnable, OMG it's only 15 to 8.

VvVVvV11 votes

Yes and i agree....like i said...there is a difference in just being behind and being over. if only looking at a 15-8 kill count then yes u can still come back from that......but not when the situation is like what happened above. not a 4v5 , 9-22 game where not only are down kill gold but your cs is nowhere near the other teams because you was stuck in your base over 6 min straight and the other team basically had the whole map to themselves.

Done2525 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrPG96I4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T22:58:25.511+0000)

Counterpoint: Please stop trying to surrender when the game is still completely winnable, OMG it's only 15 to 8.

Even better. I had someone try to surrender when it was 15:8...in our favor

Sp33d Zer016 votes

"I don't even wanna play this games because in 0/4"

Verxint2 votes

The one that always enrages me is when the yasuo main or something like that died his third death, tries to surrender, we all vote no because every other position is stomping, and then he ragequits.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

the famous in our favor. i would surrend too when :

  • im the only one fed and my mates act like they're all fed... and dosn't listen calls
  • im the only one fed and every pick in other team (minus my ennemy laner) are fed af

When u get experimented enough you can judge if you have win possibility or not (comp, mates gameplay...)

SephAgro5 votes

looking only at kills is stupid. you have to look at gold income from other factors and the obvious skill comp of the other team to get them that

Drewbz3 votes

Or people that have no idea how to look to see when a comp will spike. My favorite is when the team of Cass, Vayne, Mundo, Janna, and Gnar tries to FF at 20 because they lost the T1 towers. I'm not gonna FF if I see that our comp could roll theirs in about 10 minutes. People don't want to have to turtle. They want to just faceroll win their lanes and go on to the next game.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votes

This dosn't mean anything !!!! if im top in 6/2/2 and my bot is in 0/6/0 along losing their turret, my mid in 2/4 and my jng in 0/3./0.. its more likely game's lost.

KVbqbFsC8e31 votes

Some people just love to waste everyone else's time.

Tacosrock9 votes

Well considering that you're just playing a video game, which is just wasting your time already, what difference does it make whether or not they surrender? You go into the game expecting to waste time.

tobequitefrank7 votes

the entire GOAL of this video game and many many others, is to win. lol?

foxplosion2 votes

If you only play to win and not for fun, isnt a loss wasted time then? So why even play then?

tobequitefrank7 votes

you are correct a loss is literal wasted time.

I play to win.. like everybody else.

Eedat20 votes

People throw games left and right down here bud

Rìveń14 votes

What the hell are people in this thread on about, last time I checked, the game isn't over until the Nexus falls.

And yes, unbelieveable comebacks in the shittiest of situations, in 4v5's do happen.

Really, I despise the surrender function in all scenarios but the one where you're a full 5 man premade and just want to move to the next game as soon as possible, realize that some people want to actually try to win the game, and that you're most likely the person on your team who can't tell the difference, because no game is ever lost before the Nexus falls, and every game is winnable until the very last moment.

If your team is playing like complete garbage and all else fails, just carry the game by yourself, you're at a low silver level as far as I can see, and literally no one there has a single clue of how to shut down a team with one player who deserves to climb their ranks. It's pretty much a "clownfiesta", if you wish, and an entire team can easily be taken care of by a single, somewhat better player.

I'm ready to take a whole load of shit for this post.

TranscendVirtual11 votes

Im honestly so sick of every game pre 10 minutes people giving up, even one thing goes bad people calling for a forfeit, its fucking crazy how quick everyone is to give up espically with some of the crazy comebacks ive had simply by not giving up. The way to improvement is to not give up and trying to pull through if you end up losing you have more material to learn from. The best players learn to play from behind, not give up the second first bloods given

brônco9 votes

did you ever think that maybe they are voting no because they are having fun and don't want to stop playing?

games are for fun btw

Hibeki16 votes

so what you are saying is 1 persons fun > everyone elses fun?

brônco14 votes

{quoted}

so what you are saying is 1 persons fun > everyone elses fun?

What I'm saying is my fun is more important to me than others, yes, that's why I choose to play this game to entertain myself personally, not to entertain others

YumaS2Astral4 votes

{quoted}

What I'm saying is my fun is more important to me than others, yes, that's why I choose to play this game to entertain myself personally, not to entertain others

Your fun ends when the other's fun ends

abca988 votes

Following that logic I could kidnap you and torture you to death just because It would be entertaining for me. That's why empathy is important.

Automated Riven7 votes

apples and oranges. It is not breaking any rules or laws or morality to refuse to surrender. It is, however, breaking all of those to torture someone to death. Not only is your assumption insulting, (objectively) but its a gross overreach to try to insist someone is wrong.

Cosnirak7 votes

or morality

It's definitely immoral to force others to suffer needlessly for your own amusement.

Stupafly4 votes

Nobody forced you to hit play. You join knowing you could be there for an hour.

If you are 'suffering' then just leave. Why would you force yourself to 'suffer'? or are you exaggerating.

Summonah123695 votes

{quoted}

Nobody forced you to hit play. You join knowing you could be there for an hour.

If you are 'suffering' then just leave. Why would you force yourself to 'suffer'? or are you exaggerating. I'm sure he queued up to expect a good and enjoyable game of League, not a team of feeders. Plus if he leaves then he might get a penalty from all the reports.

Stupafly2 votes

Yes if you have a team of feeders that sucks. But that is something you realize that may happen when you click the play button. Im not saying its okay, feeders suck report them.

I dont think its immoral to finish a game that we started together. If we are playing monopoly with some people and 1 hour in you realize you are not going to win so you say fuck it and walk away...... YOU are the asshole.

Edit: 'but it would be immoral for you to make me sit here and waste my time losing' .... and you made me sit here and waste this first 15 min on nothing

Summonah123693 votes

{quoted}

Yes if you have a team of feeders that sucks. But that is something you realize that may happen when you click the play button. Im not saying its okay, feeders suck report them.

I dont think its immoral to finish a game that we started together. If we are playing monopoly with some people and 1 hour in you realize you are not going to win so you say fuck it and walk away...... YOU are the asshole.

Edit: 'but it would be immoral for you to make me sit here and waste my time losing' .... and you made me sit here and waste this first 15 min on nothing

Why would i leave when I'm winning in Monopoly?

Cosnirak2 votes

Hitting play is not agreeing to stay in a game until enough other players feel it should end and thus cause that to happen. Regardless, that has nothing to do with the morality of making others suffer for your own amusement. At no point does hitting play mean I am willing to let others make me suffer for their amusement and thus should sit in a game for 15 more minutes longer than necessary.

When I hit play I do so knowing I might suffer some amount in an attempt to garner my own amusement and satisfaction. It is a cost I am often willing to pay, and it often makes the satisfaction all the greater because of the contrast. When I take actions in the game that I know likely cause another to suffer I do so knowing they have taken that same risk, they are willing to suffer some in their own attempt to gain something positive out of the experience.

Once a game is clearly over, one side having no chance to come back beyond some crazy circumstance such as all of their opponents suddenly disconnecting, there's no more potential to gain. That risk is over, you've suffered and it's done now, time to move on to the next game in or another activity and make an attempt to gain there. Dragging out the suffering when there's no more chance to gain from it is simply making others suffer for your own amusement.

'Suffering' doesn't have to be a big thing, sometimes it's very minor. That doesn't mean it isn't suffering.

Stupafly2 votes

Okay well then when is a game over? When you say it is?

It seems like you play this game to gain LP or BE or something. I play this game to have fun. For me Winning =/= Fun and Losing =/= Unfun.

Just because i know i am going to lose a game does not mean the fun is over.

Cosnirak3 votes

There is no exact line of when the game is "effectively" over, that's why the surrender vote requires 4/5 to say yes. Yes at times people will disagree on when it's effectively over and that's ok. But when you agree that it's over, there's no remotely reasonable chance of winning but you still say no, you are likely being a dick to others.

I play to have fun, and that means more than just winning or gaining points. But it's still rarely ever fun for me anymore if we're clearly going to lose. Sometimes I just wanna get one kill on someone real fast before it's over and I won't hit yes on the vote for a few seconds so I can get in an attempt at that. Sometimes I'm having fun doing all kinds of things and I have to weigh my still having fun vs the suffering of the other players on my team who want to surrender. I'm sure there are exceptions where it's worth not surrendering, such as all of those teammates have been jerks and so I don't care how they feel anymore, but generally I'll put my own wants aside so those others don't have to suffer.

I think the point is no one is asking for a unilateral surrender option, we agree that different people have different points where they think the game is effectively over, but it's still immoral to not surrender when you agree that it's over but just wanna keep playing despite several of your teammates clearly no longer having fun.

abca985 votes

So it is bad to cause physical harm to others but holding them hostage so you can have fun is perfectly reasonable.

tobequitefrank6 votes

wow youre one of the kids that hold people hostage

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

Dying over & over is fun to you....huh.

SephAgro8 votes

yup this shit has to end. please riot do something about surrender votes

SB Arneeman8 votes

It's more important that people don't troll when the rest of the team won't surrender. I literally got an inter in my deciding diamond promo match when I didn't surrender and tried my best to turn the game and win. So many people just go full troll mode the moment they think the game can't be won, even in ranked.

Titanium708 votes

You know.. if less people would spam surrender votes the second the clock hits 15 at scores like 16-17...(That's no joke, I see this regularly) I might actually think about a reasonable surr vote (did it regularly in earlier seasons)... but as long as people spam it...

When it first pops up I instantly press no and move the surr window out of my screen...

It's just an automatism by now, lose a skirmisch at 15, press no, move aside, resume playing the game.

And btw.. most games are not lost because they snowball into being unplayable - the wast majority of games are lost by IDIOTS who think it's over.

Mighty Mortein7 votes

If you're down like 4-6 towers around 25 minutes, then maybe it's a lost cause. I get League is a pretty snowbally game, but it's easy to tell when the enemy team is avalanching.

Stupafly5 votes

Honestly, if i think we still have a chance at winning but you stop trying to win and start trying to demoralize the team because its 'over' then there is no way in HELL am i letting you get out of this game.

Sarutobi5 votes

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people have a different opinion on what is "Unwinnable" Ive seen people who claim a game is unwinnable once First Blood is drawn, or when just one person on the enemy team is fed. Since everyone has a different opinion on the matter its hard to determine what is and isnt unwinnable. Then there is the case of people throwing because they think the game is over, and because of that makes it in their favor to Surrender and thats not fair towards the people who try to win.

Awf Meta5 votes

In other news, people still refusing to attack the Nexus.

saltran4 votes

I'm one of this guys that doesn' like to surrender, but when it's a 4vs5 it's just a waste of time unless you were really feed before one player went afk.

Spacefight0r3 votes

Something to consider:

Assuming the same player skill, a player who is unwilling to surrender will almost always have a higher win rate and at worst would have the same win rate as someone who will surrender.

Furthermore, if you are truly that far behind, the game shouldn't last much longer anyways.

Ahri Inari3 votes

What is winnable and unwinnable is different for everyone. If you want to surrender use the properway with vote. Don't afk fontain to pressure your teamate to do so.

FirewaterDM2 votes

Ranked - 0% chance i'm FFing unless the team makes the entire experience so unfun that I'm just reporting everyone and logging off for the day.

Norms- depends, 9/10 times for norms I don't FF unless equally shitty circumstances because trying to practice- yes unwinnable games suck but sometimes people just trying to learn shit and FF'ing cause they lost instantly doesn't get them that time to practice in real game scenarios.

But yes unwinnable games suck and inevitable, use them for practice- IF you keep spamming FF's it's honestly just as annoying.

Edit: I do play with friends who do pay for time at internet cafes, etc so 100% I say yes if they're using their money, or if my premade's tilted otherwise i'm saying no.

Also I don't say yes ever if it's the one (or 2) people who got shit on spamming it all game when everyone else did fine.

Modl Ryden l2 votes

Need them to remove ff@15 and have steadier paced games throughout.

BobaFlautist2 votes

Who gets to decide if a game is unwinnable?

Mcsquzzy2 votes

sometimes people vote no because they want the person who is having a bad game to have to sit there and play till the end out of spite for what they view as losing the game or the person who did poorly is fed up with the harassment, and decided they can stay with him for 5 more minutes till 20 when 4 votes can get them out.

I feel these are the 2 most common, faith in possibly winning is like the 1% group

Anzila1 votes

I will, occasionally, when we're 'winning', call for a surrender vote. This is always when I'm on a premade of escaping assassins, and the entire game has turned into Rocket Tag. It does not reflect that I think we will lose, it reflects that I stopped having fun by death six while my team did nothing, and sitting in a bush when they're down two champs for two minutes while hoping the enemy Xerath wanders by is not what I consider entertaining.

That said, what baffles me is the people who just refuse to vote. If you don't want to surrender, vote no. The most depressing message I've ever seen is The Surrender vote has failed 1-0. Four people had given up to the point pressing a single vote button was too hard, or required too much skill.

OneMustFall2 votes

{quoted}

I will, occasionally, when we're 'winning', call for a surrender vote. This is always when I'm on a premade of escaping assassins, and the entire game has turned into Rocket Tag. It does not reflect that I think we will lose, it reflects that I stopped having fun by death six while my team did nothing, and sitting in a bush when they're down two champs for two minutes while hoping the enemy Xerath wanders by is not what I consider entertaining.

That said, what baffles me is the people who just refuse to vote. If you don't want to surrender, vote no. The most depressing message I've ever seen is The Surrender vote has failed 1-0. Four people had given up to the point pressing a single vote button was too hard, or required too much skill.

Or they're just sick of having to constantly deny the surrender vote that's being spammed every five minutes. Like what's the point of voting no when some numbnuts is just going to spam it again the next time he gets a chance?

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