PSA: Dont Try To Call Out The 0 - 4 - 6 Guy For Feed When You Are 11 - 10 - 1

VvVVvV·Jul 4, 2016·174 votes·7,252 views

Kills dont hide feed, If you have to die to get a kill you really are not doing much better.

102 Comments

MimyJul 4, 201687 votes

You actually feed more because kills refresh your bounty.

SpoofghoulJul 4, 201611 votes

this^

its real annoying seeing teammates go kill for kill with enemies while your something like 1/0/1

and then they are both 20/20

that means cos of mydickhead of a teammate my opponent is now 19 kills up on me and 1¼ item and 5 levels ahead

and because of his dickbehavior im rpetty much'' out of the game''

BladeSteelJul 4, 20161 votes

I have seen that even assists reset it completely...I saw a 0-11 varus get one assist...we killed him and got 300 gold for it. Idk if it was a bug or something but it has happened other times as well

Hyrum GraffJul 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I have seen that even assists reset it completely...I saw a 0-11 varus get one assist...we killed him and got 300 gold for it. Idk if it was a bug or something but it has happened other times as well

Assists don't completely reset it, I think. Also every 1000 gold you recover one tier.

Azules500Jul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I have seen that even assists reset it completely...I saw a 0-11 varus get one assist...we killed him and got 300 gold for it. Idk if it was a bug or something but it has happened other times as well

I believe deathstreaks gradually reset as a champion gets more gold and CS.

Serika ZeroJul 5, 20161 votes

To be fair, it depends on class. If the 0/4 guy is a tank, or support or utility adc, even normal adc that's fine. But if the 0/4 is an assassin, I rather have him be 10/15/1 than 0/4/8

DeathBurstJul 6, 20161 votes

I strongly disagree. He can always be 0-4 and farm CS until he has the items to do his job. If he's 10-15, he gave 15 bounties to the enemy team, and that's much more important than him getting fed.

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20161 votes

so do i, an assassin that is incapable of killing his target is useless and "farm well" assassins? while behind? this doesn't happen in this game

along side with his low amount of gold, he or she also proves that she sucks at that champion for failing to secure kills on assassins. Even when the entire game is in a mess, even when I'm behind (like my last diana game), I can still secure kills. Since that's what assassins's job is, kill.

tanks can cc, engage, disengage and peal to protect. Assassins don't have that luxury. if the adc dies less with a lot of assists = shows skills to position, kite, and target switching a tank with a lot of assists and less deaths = good at engaging or protecting a support with few deaths and a lot of assist = same as tank

but for a non support mage or assassins. It shows how much they suck on that hero. if I go 0/4/20 as Oriana mid you can tell I fucking suck at Oriana and my team has to carry me, than if I go 10/10/10. Now it means my shockwaves were on point, and QW combo destroyed the enemy and that I've won many team fights with that. Which btw, I suck on Oriana. So, I usually have close to no kills when I play her and I'm trying to keep deaths to as low as possible to not drag my team further down.

But again, if we talk about player skill. I rather have the assassin/mage in my team be 10/15/4 than 0/2/10

DeathBurstJul 6, 20161 votes

If you are a 10-15 assassin, you are not "doing your job", you are helping the enemy team more than your own. Unless your kills led to 3 or 4 towers taken down, which would be quite miraculous, the difference in gold is largely in the enemy team's favor.

I'd be perfectly happy with a 0-4-20 Oriana, as long as she also has the CS (and so the gold) to buy her items and remain relevant and continue getting so many assists with so little deaths. The only problem is if she falls behind in gold/items due to not getting kills.

10-10-10 is far better than 10-15-1, which was the score you mentioned in your first comment, but I'd still take the 0-4-20 above the 10-10-10 any day. In both case, the player was present for 20 kills, so their game sense and presence is good, but in one case, they gave 1.8K more gold to the enemy team. And even if they didn't take the kills themselves, it's still 20 kills in both cases, so if the mid didn't take them, that means someone else got them. Probably the ADC. Nothing to complain about.

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20162 votes

a 10/15 assassin managed to kill the enemy carry at least 5 times, making the enemy lose their damage dealer and subsequently win the fighters for their team while he/she also got caught a lot of times while trying to flank as the enemy wasn't retarded enough to put 0 wards.

0/4/20 = bad oriana = she won't have the cs to keep on par. Ofc she would be 50 or so cs behind

again, a non utility mage or assassin with very little kills = they are bad at that champion, unable to secure kills and most likely unable to exert pressure in lane. As per result, they also gona have low cs.

And again a 10/15/1 Oriana means she was hitting essential sockwaves, but she was also out of position quite often. But this Oriana player can win you the game with one good QRWE combo.

While the 0/4/20 one is going to spam e and w on your team mates for assists and catch-up gold. While being so scared to get into a good position to get a decent QR out just because she MIGHT die.

In the 0/4/20 score. Yes, there are 20 kills secured by your team. But guess what your oriana is a fucking coward, and its gona take a miracle to win a mid-late game fight. Again, mages and assassins got kits designed for KILLING THE ENEMY. If they fail at it, they are bad and don't take risks.

I'd gladly take the 10/15/1 Zed over the 0/4/20 Oriana coz out of 20 games. The Zed player is gona win me more than the Oriana player ever will.

In a game where the enemy team was ahead by 10k gold at 20 minutes, I still somehow got 4 kills on Diana. Assassins are supposed to kill, that's their role. If they are unable to do that, they are useless. So your mid or jungle better play utility (Lulu, Morgana, Zillean) or tank (Zac, Sejuani, Gragas,rek'sai) etc. Coz they are worth less than 2 cents on a mage/assassin without kills.

Kills on these 2 classes = player skill. Hence why most assassin players are so fucking obsessed with it. Yet the rest of you seem to disconsider it. But there's a major difference between having a 0/0/0 Zed on mid or a 4/8/0 Zed on mid. One is useless the other one does something.

DeathBurstJul 6, 20161 votes

OK, I think there is no point in going further. We're both making assumptions and inventing stuff on top of the score, and there is no way to decide who is right with the score alone.

Of course I believe that my assumptions (e.g. "it's a safe player that has a good presence") is more probable than yours (e.g. "it's a coward that doesn't know how to CS"), but ultimately, neither of us has any proof.

I'll just say I'm still not convinced, and I would still take the Oriana if I had the choice. In my experience, it's better to not feed, even if you are not fed yourself. A fed enemy is a liability, a risk of losing that crucial late game team-fight just because they had 30 s of grace and made the perfect fight. If nobody is fed, you can just play strategically, manipulate minion waves, and force unfair fights to your advantage.

(And kills != skills, even on Assassins)

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20161 votes

show me a game of pro-play or even high elo play where an assassin player IS GOOD but has more assists than kills ;)

hint hint, there's none that's why kills = skill on assassin and mage its different on the other classes, but these 2 are burst oriented in general

while others are either dps or supportive. It makes sense for them to not always secure kills and have games where they can't get em. While this doesn't apply for assassins.

It makes sense for cars to run on roads. But planes need to fly, even if they start on the ground. If the plane can't fly, its a shitty one. While a flying car would be really sweeeeet :D

DeathBurstJul 6, 20161 votes

Well, I can show you plenty.

http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=Hide+on+Bush

This is Faker account, Korea Challenger, and if you look at it right now, he has more assists than kills on his last 4 matches (3 mid, 1 ADC), including 2 matches with Azir and Viktor. Sure, I got lucky with my example (it's the first account I checked), and that's not always the case, but it does happen more often than not. What's important to note is that, even when he has more assists than kills, he ALWAYS has a ridiculously low number of deaths. And there isn't a single game where he has a large number of kills but a negative KD.

EDIT: and starting from Faker account, you can click on other mid players account and browse their games, and you'll find this kind of game on every one of them. Even in winning game.

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20161 votes

yes yes, check that faker account. He has more assists than kills on 6 out of his 15 mid lane games. Darn, it, you were right.

ps: Jhin is an adc that usually gets a lot of assists due to playstyle (bombs and long range ulti for initiation). Similar to Ashe, Sivir and sry for the ones i've missed. Its normal for them to have a bunch of assists over kills.

edit, check his stats on the left 7 kills - 6 assists, average on leblank 6 - 5 zed 5 - 5 azir 8 - 5 fizz

as i've said, assassins and mages get kills over assists, its a prof of their skills (yasou is a fighter in case you wonder)

DeathBurstJul 6, 20161 votes

The stats on the left are averaged over many games, and the numbers are pretty close. In practice, he has generally much more kills, but there are quite regularly matches with more Assists than Kills. Because when you are behind, it's still better to play safe, to only get assists but to give no kills to the enemy, than to trade kill for kill.

Again, there are a few games with more assists, but there is absolutely 0 games with scores similar to 11-10-1, and almost never a game with a negative KD -- not KDA, just KD. There are games with more assists and very few deaths (e.g. 3-3-10), games with obvious dominance (e.g. 13-5-10), and close games with approximately as many deaths as kills, but even in this case there are lots of assists on top of that (e.g. 8-8-8, not 11-10-1).

I'm not saying that it's good or optimal to have score like 0-4-20. What I'm saying is, it happens, even to good players, and that's not really a problem. Whereas being 11-10 with no assist, or 10-15 or even 4-8, it never happens. Dying for a single kill is almost never worth it, the exception being taking out the one fed player in the enemy team and giving to your team the opportunity to force an objective. But it's worth because of the objective, not because of the kill.

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20161 votes

assassins are kill based, so are mages in general (such as syndra, ahri, annie) their job is to kill

adc's jobs is to high dps for objectives jungle's job is to smite jungle objectives support job is to peal/engage/heal tank role is to peal/engage

ASSASSIN ROLE IS TO ASSASSINATE, fucking hard, isn't it?

DeathBurstJul 7, 20161 votes

And ANY PLAYER ROLE (see, I can use caps too) is first to not die. Pros don't die, even if it means having less kills. You asked me to show you, I showed you. Being 10-10 is bad. Being 0-4-20 is not good, but it's less bad. Yes, EVEN ON AN ASSASSIN. Believe me or not, Faker still has the same amount of kills and assists than you, not more. But he has 2.5 less death per game. THAT is the difference. Because dying is f'in bad, even if you trade your own death for a kill.

tl;dr: dying is bad; don't die.

Serika ZeroJul 7, 20161 votes

making plays = putting youself in danger = you might and WILL die, especially when learning

that's why shitty teams that only react finish last places in LCS, LSK, and so on

while teams that try to make plays, will fail a bunch of times, but once they nailed it down, they are better than the rest

again, you can see in faker's profile too. He usually has more kills than assists. Why because that's the role of assassins and mages >.> killing priority targets to win team fights for your team.

Your objective is to win the team fight for your team, at any costs. This generally means killing the enemy. As opposed to someone like ADC whose role is to DPS and survive. Tank who's role is to engage and then try to survive and protect his carry. Assassins and mages HAVE TO KILL

eaglei3Jul 4, 201625 votes

Is that 0-4-6 a member of bot lane who is constantly getting dove and killed by the jungler and mid that the 11-10-1 guy fed kills to??? That is my favorite thing as a support player when we get raged at for not doing anything against a fed mid or top. Those two lanes will usually completely run over an adc/support if they get too fed.

KnoyleJul 4, 20165 votes

15/12/2 Vayne This is fucking top's fault for feeding. Sees Wukong this Moron takes fucking Kennen top.

0/4/20 Kennen ....

Supreme Senpai69Jul 5, 20162 votes

Nami "Guys there's four bot please follow your lanes." -dies- Teemo "/all omfg please report this Nami for feeding" -the enemy top laner kills him- TwistedFate "smh I'll carry you guys" -he ults top and dies-

TheThundersRoarJul 4, 201616 votes

In fact, the 11/10/1 guy is feeding much, much harder because his deaths are worth gold.

0/16/9 stopped actually feeding gold 10 deaths ago. 12/13/7 is still feeding a hardcore 300 gold per death.

It's just an example, really, but I'd rather have 0/8 on my team than 14/14.

killd0zerJul 5, 20163 votes

Not necessarily tbh. You don't necessarily go 13 deaths in a row. Could have fed low gold like 0/16 then gone on a killing spree.

0/8 and 14/14 are pretty fucking ridiculous to compare seeing as 0/8 is involved in 8 kills/deaths and 14/14 is involved in 28 kills/deaths. And even surprisingly this isn't always true either XD. A 14/14 Riven is FAR more useful than a 0/8 pretty much anytime. I don't really care if Riven fed the enemy Maokai if she comes back.

AlayliaJul 4, 201614 votes

Unfortunately, those folks do not understand that they are feeding more because of that fact. Shame

PaladinNOJul 4, 201614 votes

Riven : "Nami, stop feeding!" Nami : "??"

The Riven was 7/2/6, and I guess all she saw was my 0/7 - or to complete my side of that story: 0/7/26. I didn't feel like I was feeding, though I could be wrong.

My ADC was 23/4/5 or thereabouts, and some of those kills was achieved because I put myself in such a way that I died in his stead, like IMHO a proper support should.

Does the term "meatshield" even apply to fish?

WimbledofyJul 4, 20162 votes

7 deaths is sorta quite a bit but it depends on the game, how long it was and how you were dying.

PaladinNOJul 4, 20166 votes

It was some time ago so the details are starting to be overwritten in my memory module, but I died twice due to stupid mistakes (flapping my fin where it didn't belong), 4 was sacrificial, so the ADC could live, and the last one was when simply running out of mana and just about everything (HP, mana, adrenaline, hope etc.) in a full-on, full-body clusterfu...ehh, teamfight.

Game was around 45-50 minutes. I had the 7 deaths within about 30 of them, but I stopped dying any more from that point on (basically because the ADC was so fed by then, there's wasn't really much left within seconds to take harm from).

MrHaZeYoJul 4, 20167 votes

I mean if your sacrificing yourself for your carries than I wouldn't call that feeding.

PaladinNOJul 4, 20163 votes

Spoken like a true ADC main! I know you ain't, but I had to check you up to see if that was a biased statement. :)

How can I put this? I take my job seriously. ;)

MrHaZeYoJul 4, 20164 votes

Haha ya I'm a mid laner, I don't generally bitch out anyone, for whatever reason. This is a learning experience for us all. I'm just trying to perfect the passion.

INoble KnightIJul 4, 20163 votes

I wish I ran into more awesome supports

MrHaZeYoJul 4, 20164 votes

I agree, they're a rare bread.

PaladinNOJul 5, 20161 votes

I'm sorry, but I gotta pun you on that mistake: "Rare bread with antiquated butter" or "Would you like some cheese with that whine?"

It's rare breed. ;)

Please do not mistake my low tolerance for sub-par english as a lack of respect, Sir. It's just my programming. :(

But I still give you a consolation upvote for your intended message. :)

MrHaZeYoJul 5, 20163 votes

lol ya oops.

INoble KnightIJul 5, 20163 votes

Great supports make my jungling a lot better lol

HighH1Jul 4, 20162 votes

You're still feeding,despite those assists. Sure you died for you carry and you get assists but you're still a feeder.A useful feeder but a feeder nonetheless

PaladinNOJul 4, 201611 votes

Well, it was either me or the ADC. I judged it as in a 1v1 situation or objective-wise, the ADC would be more useful overall, so...I pressed S to stall the pursuers who otherwise would've gotten both of us.

The bluntness in your statement makes me feel really good about myself as a support. NOT. xD

A useful feeder but a feeder nonetheless

Well, as long as I'm not to be considered a bottom-feeder, I guess I'm to take it as a compliment. :) But yes, I was technically feeding, number for number, I will admit - if this was a court-room with only yes/no answers, ignoring the context.

Let's see...this is a scenario that warrants some icons with no apparent meaning. Wait just a moment...ah, here we go: item 3070 item 3102

I think I got it right. ^^

For some reason, whenever I play, swim or talk about Nami, I like to sea how many watery puns I can splash in a single post...just to add linguistical waves, I suppose.

KnoyleJul 4, 20166 votes

Your ADC has a huge bouny because they are currently legendary with 12 kills and no deaths. The support with CC up the wazoo has no kills 4 deaths and 12 assists and is 2 levels behind the ADC. Which one do you think will give the enemy team for gold? I salute the support that makes the "better me, than you or both of us" sacrificial play.

PaladinNOJul 5, 20162 votes

I just gotta re-post this one; the "sacrificial" Nami. http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/dd6109ebc850da0d95d32a3859f1206d.jpg

I kinda want a picture like that for Soraka as well, as she's a support too...and also the proverbial sacrificial goat.

When I did make the decision to just stop and turn to fight (or if I just walked/swam towards them, I'm not quite sure) against all hope in my case above (if I rememeber correctly, there were 3 of them chasing us), I for some funny reason found myself oddly at peace with it.

It was like "it's okay to die now. Just let it go." (I even think I closed my eyes and took my hands off the keyboard for good measure).

CheekynorthJul 5, 20161 votes

You are the support I want to play with

Sucks I play EUW

PaladinNOJul 5, 20161 votes

Nice to hear, but you would have to make yourself worthy of sacrificial plays though. Plays like that is not something I do lightly (as no support should do), and I am only doing it if I consider the ADC to be worth it.

And "worth" in this case is depending on numerous factors, like farming capability, the understanding of wave management, skillshot dodging, poking, kiting when necessary, communication (i.e. easy to read playmaking based off pings and consistent movements, making me able to follow up to do my part without even a word written).

I consider myself fairly competent in reading the skill of an ADC-player even before a single push has been made, so basically, the ADC will have to show he is good enough to stay alive even without me for a duration. Or put differently: he will have to prove he's a better, more skilled player than me.

This may sound as though I'm only along for the ride, and perhaps I am, given how I only play utility support mages and not all-in tanks or AP supports, but if I can contribute by simply complimenting his or her abilities as AD carry, then I have no issues with putting myself in harms way in his stead.

CheekynorthJul 6, 20162 votes

Well, as a Varus main, poke is one of my strong points. Always charging Q (or almost always). See an enemy? Well my fully charged Q I used from beforehand I can fire and remove a quarter of their health. Sometimes I'm not the best at skillshot dodging but what I do is try to stay behind minions to farm if I'm fighting Thresh or Blitzcrank. I also need to react to the skillshot before I even think about dodging. Thresh hook is simple for me as I know it has a start up time, so I look at his character, wait for the swing in a circle and run. Sometimes I have my bad games but I can do great. I always ward. This is the thing that supports like about me when I play with them. I ward, and tell them I do that, and I ward a LOT. I also take great care of the support, for example, if you manage to snare the enemy adc, and we kill him, I will award you for doing so, and I have a rule with myself: If the support is harmed, by anybody on the enemy team, I will kill them. Or at least attempt to.

Thing is though, you're gold and I'm unranked. That's the problem for me. I haven't found my placement yet

I also don't JUST main Varus. I main Fiora too

PaladinNOJul 6, 20161 votes

Damn, I forgot to add that part. I don't really care about ranked play; while I may be Gold - or as I like to see it: "the lowest requirement for the Victorious skin" - I don't like playing ranked, or have any ambitions trying to climb higher than Gold V. Though I try not to, I still do find myself obsessing over other people's rank (because that's what everyone tells me: "if you have no rank, you're nothing"). Unhealthy mentality in my view, yet I can't seem to shake it.

But that was why I specifically wrote skill, and not rank in my post above (with all these smurfs running around, displayed rank doesn't really provide the whole case). Even unrankeds can be skilled, and I've see better performance from what has been, on paper at least, unranked players than some Platinum or even supposedly Diamond players.

I now really find myself in a situation where I need to thread carefully, because every pro recommends you have more than 2 mains, but...I have only 2 mains myself (with a little bit of Silver Kayle on the side), so I shouldn't say anything on that. ^^

Also, I have no idea how good is Varus is with Nami - he's a rather niche pink, it seems. Which was probably a reason why I laid my eyes on my Lulu (top/mid if I have to) and Nami (support): neither is seen very often, and while their kit and playstyle is primarily why I picked them - which was a case of something just saying "click" when I got the basics on how to play them - they were, and still are, also safe picks, in as much as they're not banned on a regular basis.

I believe it has been said 2 champions for each (preferred) role is the recommendation...though if you ever see me jungle, you better dodge. Jungling to me gives me a feeling of camping, like full camping: break out the tent and roll out the sleeping-bag; light a campfire and burn some sausages. I have no idea what to do in there.

Okay, this got to the point where I feel I'm derailing the thread. Best leave it at this.

GL down the bot lane. :)

King of MongooseJul 4, 20162 votes

i don't care how many times i died, if you die more than you get kills then you are feeding

TheRealBazJul 4, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=King of Mongoose,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4dMHUM3q,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-07-04T18:26:48.190+0000)

i don't care how many times i died, if you die more than you get kills then you are feeding

oh hey its you, i see changing up your summoner icon

xWatersJul 4, 20166 votes

This guy is everywhere with those types of comments... and yea I noticed the icon change too lol.

PaladinNOJul 4, 20163 votes

Even I, who don't frequent these boards recognized that nick...

SlashStrikerJul 4, 20162 votes

i kinda agree with that

PSA: Dont Try To Call Out The 0 - 4 - 6 Guy For Feed When You Are 11 - 10 - 1

I don't agree with that

Kills dont hide feed, If you have to die to get a kill you really are not doing much better.

If you were 0-5 top then you continue to feed but you start getting kills from now on and end game you end up 10 - 15 - X then its so much worf.

Killing someone while dying is worth cause you get that gold but it depends.

if Feeder does it then its good
if you are ahead and you try to kill a Feeder and die than its bad

sometimes people don't do anything. No initiate or anything at all. I just lose turrets slowly and i get pissed off that everyone is just sitting there and watching aimlessly. They got no idea what to do and when someone like me finaly did something after 5 hour of doing absolutely nothing everyone rage at me. We are losing every lane slowly and surely and everyone are sitting ducks

No Aggression, no Win Aggression has to be smart and strong

Ayasaki123Jul 5, 20162 votes

Pretty much this. Dont Try To Call Out The 0 - 4 - 6 Guy For Feed When You Are 11 - 10 - 1, but also don't call out the 25-12-11 guy for feed when you are 3-0-1. He might be dying lots, but what have you been doing all game that your team has a minimum of 36 kills and you've only participated in 4 of them? I'd much rather have a guy who is getting stuff done and occasionally dying on my team than a guy who has a nice looking kda, but is actually completely useless when it comes to destroying the enemy nexus.

VvVVvVJul 5, 20162 votes

Guy...in this comment you have just basically let everyone know reading this how much you dont know about this game. Why do you think someon can only be strong but getting kills?

You do know a 3 - 0 1 guy can be just as fed as a 9 - 0 guy if he farms right, right? pls tel me somehow you just forgot about this fact when you made this statement. You do know that a 3 - 0 guy can get done just as much as someone else who is in every fight right? How do you know that person is not warding, clearing wards......pushing, taking turrets? You do know that the person constantly dieing while getting kills is giving up way more gold to the other team right?

If you go kill someone thats worth 100 gold...i can literally just go kill a camp and a few minions and i will have more gold than you.

Please people stop thinking kills mean everything.