"we have nerfed kassawin mobility because he ignore frontline"

UdoIkOSc4u··28 votes·2,562 views

meanwhile LeeSin Leblanc Zed still fly around the map

80 Comments

Konidias21 votes

We need a "Riot did something but not the thing I think they really needed to do" section of the forum.

Phife15 votes

lee sin cant fly through the front line, the first person he hits is the frontline...

GloriousKaiser7 votes

item 3340

Phife11 votes

I dont think you've played lee at gold-diamond... he cant just simply walk up and W behind their whole team and kick the carry. No one with a brain would allow that.

GloriousKaiser1 votes

Let me reiterate.

Q -> Q -> item 3340 -> W ->R.

Sammystorm1 votes

you then end a mile from your team and kick their carry maybe to the back of their front line and proceed to die.

GloriousKaiser1 votes

What's with you people think that these are one-off probabilities that only end in one conclusion?

Sammystorm2 votes

Didn't you just do the same thing?

GloriousKaiser1 votes

I told you a viable combo that LeeSin uses to enter the backline and get a kick off.

You basically said that's going to happen every time.

Sammystorm1 votes

That may have been your intention but that is not what you did. In almost every single case that lee sin double q's than ward hops he will be way out of position. W is usually saved for survival. So in most cases my situation will be more accurate than yours when lee sin tries to accomplish what you stated. Also you basically said that he could do that every time and pull it off successful because you left 0 context. So all I have to do is explain why that doesn't work 100% of the time and your statement is inaccurate. Which I did.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

well its true that there are obstacles

but the mian and most frustrating partt of lee sin is ... he can play around every thing that can be called his weakness to actualy nilify it

enemy frontline cant just block all the skillshots and its lee sin who actualy aims the skillshot

so in the end op is right ... lee can get the backline and you are right too ... its not that easy

Phife4 votes

the thing is unlike zed / LB him getting to the backline doesn't mean the end of the game / teamfight... It just means he kicks someone. And if lee's able to get to the backline as mentioned above, hes probably really tanky so in turn his R wont deal a bunch of damage, maybe 300~?

Junkο2 votes

His ultimate has a base damage of 600 on top of 200% bonus AD, even if he built full tanky, with just the jungle items and runes that could easily be 700 damage

Phife3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QB3MBMve,comment-id=000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2015-03-19T14:21:39.339+0000)

His ultimate has a base damage of 600 on top of 200% bonus AD, even if he built full tanky, with just the jungle items and runes that could easily be 700 damage

Ever heard of armor? yeah thats like 50% mitigation.

Junkο1 votes

I wasn't aware ADC's and APC's buy 3 armor items

Phife1 votes

Never heard of base armor that scales with the game? everyones default is around 55-65 thats ~40% mitigation.

Junkο1 votes

It takes 100 armor to reduce 50% damage, so the 60 ADCs and APCs have late game will reduce it by like 30%, that's ignoring the armor pen from LW that every single Lee Sin builds, and also ignoring the armor pen from the Warrior jungle enchantment.

Phife1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QB3MBMve,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-19T19:25:03.136+0000)

It takes 100 armor to reduce 50% damage, so the 60 ADCs and APCs have late game will reduce it by like 30%, that's ignoring the armor pen from LW that every single Lee Sin builds, and also ignoring the armor pen from the Warrior jungle enchantment.

i think you're forgetting that armor / mr scales multiplicative...

Junkο1 votes

They stack additively actually

Phife1 votes

The numbers yes, but the value %'s are multiples.

Kuroi861 votes

100 armor will reduce physical damage to 50% 200 armor will reduce physical damage to 25% 300 armor will reduce physical damage to 12.5%

Around 50 armor will only mean about a 25% reduction on damage meaning they still deal 75% of their damage to you.

NinjaToad991 votes

He means with base armor plus your defensive item you'll have good enough armor to lower the damage by a nice chunk.

Kuroi861 votes

Most definitely. It's not the most efficient way for a damage dealer to go as it will reduce their over all damage. Unless you are playing more of a dps style damage dealer in which case it somewhat evens out. And I do mean somewhat, there's more to it than just armor, but it can help.

NinjaToad991 votes

Well, generally speaking an ADC will get 1 defensive item (Usually item 3026) and mid laners meanwhile will either get a defensive item or not, depending on the laner (Though some might get several AP + Defense items).

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

It just means he kicks someone.

you make it seem like zed going to your backline means that your nexus blows up just becuase he is an actual assasin

like any bruiser lee can duel your carry and score a kill which means that once he gets to him some things happen a)enemy carry cant aid his team since he fights for his life b)enemy team needs to blow their stuff out to kill that fighter sicne they cant risk losing a carry c)enemy frontline moves back or can get shredded by four of lee's teammates since lee occupies their backline

maybe 300~

his base dmg is 200/400/600 assuming he literaly has 0 bonus ad he will deal at least 400 to a carry at lvl 16 assuming carry uses armor only from runes and masteries

but notice lee is building tanky but he also builds at least one offensive item

an item giving him 50 bonus ad translates to him gaining 200 dmg on his ult

and thats still not counting any runes and well its a little of ad, he could get hydra and kick even harder

so to be fair i would say that lee sins kick will be at least 300/ 500/ 700 dmg on your carry and it can go even higher with little amounts of ad or arpen (actualy a realy good stat on him)

so my point is that lee going to your backline has actualy the same impact as lb/zed going to your backline
but lee isnt an assasin so he wont burst as hard and escape so well, yet he is tankier so he will live longer

Jefftiffy9 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you've played lee at gold-diamond... he cant just simply walk up and W behind their whole team and kick the carry. No one with a brain would allow that.

I find it absolutely hilarious that people at any elo lets it happen. You see him running up to your front line and go wtf is Lee doing instead of discouraging him and then he ward hops in and q ults your carry out of team and sit there and go OH I SEE and then react like somehow figuring out what he was doing instead of understanding his common rotations beforehand would win the fight.

First thing I do with a Lee on enemy team as carry, #1 juke Q's like crazy and stay the fuck away until its down. First thing I do as support, peel for the fucking carry because Lee is useless if he can't peel for his carry or dive yours. (I mean if he's already in your team the former is impossible). Then Lee blows up and you sit there and punish Lee's team for thinking he was going to make an LCS big play. 1st thing to do as a tank. Eat every Q that may hit a squishy because you shouldn't care. He can't kill you or even really scratch you so why would you not protect your team especially when thats his only in and you have CC if he does decide to go in (nearly every tank does).

This may be the amount I have played Lee talking, but as "flexible" Lee's kit is. The only thing not very projected is his ult before he uses it. I use that to read what other Lee's are trying to do in each situation.

Phife2 votes

{quoted}

I find it absolutely hilarious that people at any elo lets it happen. You see him running up to your front line and go wtf is Lee doing instead of discouraging him and then he ward hops in and q ults your carry out of team and sit there and go OH I SEE and then react like somehow figuring out what he was doing instead of understanding his common rotations beforehand would win the fight.

First thing I do with a Lee on enemy team as carry, #1 juke Q's like crazy and stay the fuck away until its down. First thing I do as support, peel for the fucking carry because Lee is useless if he can't peel for his carry or dive yours. (I mean if he's already in your team the former is impossible). Then Lee blows up and you sit there and punish Lee's team for thinking he was going to make an LCS big play. 1st thing to do as a tank. Eat every Q that may hit a squishy because you shouldn't care. He can't kill you or even really scratch you so why would you not protect your team especially when thats his only in and you have CC if he does decide to go in (nearly every tank does).

This may be the amount I have played Lee talking, but as "flexible" Lee's kit is. The only thing not very projected is his ult before he uses it. I use that to read what other Lee's are trying to do in each situation.

he gets it.

UdoIkOSc4u2 votes

{quoted}

lee sin cant fly through the front line, the first person he hits is the frontline...

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool 1100 range skillshot with 3 sec cd wall hop of 700 range and the strongest knockback ofc

Phife7 votes

Just stop. you're embarrassing your self.

ModAcademy Kayn6 votes

You cant argue with stupid. If he believes that Lee can somehow pass his shots through a tank, let him believe that.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

{quoted}

You cant argue with stupid. If he believes that Lee can somehow pass his shots through a tank, let him believe that.

With the hitboxes we have it probably can lol.

OperationDEEZ16 votes

Forgot about Katarina

NinjaToad992 votes

If Kat can walk up to the front line and QEWR onto the ADC without getting CC'd and blown up in .2 seconds then your problem isn't Kat.

Stacona4 votes

Okay people, this guy is clearly an idiot and moron, but there is a valid point that champions like Leblanc and Zed need to receive nerfs, Leblanc being the biggest offender. In addition to champions like Katarina and Irelia also being insanely overpowered and escape nerfs constantly.

Also Kassadin follow up compensation buffs are a massive mistake.

UdoIkOSc4u2 votes

{quoted}

Okay people, this guy is clearly an idiot and moron, but there is a valid point that champions like Leblanc and Zed need to receive nerfs, Leblanc being the biggest offender. In addition to champions like Katarina and Irelia also being insanely overpowered and escape nerfs constantly.

Also Kassadin follow up compensation buffs are a massive mistake.

how can i be a moron if i post about samething of a game lol,katarina insanely overpowered she is the worst of everyone you listened

Stacona5 votes

RIP English

Baron of Bread3 votes

They are from EUW, it is fairly likely that English isn't their first language. Lay off that part and just discuss the topic at hand, or argue it if you prefer that term (I am sure you will do fine in either case).

Stacona1 votes

Yes, he is European on the North American forums - congrats

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Congrats?

  1. How do you expect us to be heard by Rito if not by coming here...
  2. EU servers have LOTS of languages, so we all only communicate in English. If we, who only learnt English at school, can make it through what he said and understand, you can make it too.
  3. the problem with what he said is the lack of ponctuation and syntaxis, stuff that is freaking LOGIC. If he doesn't use those, he has logic problems, not English problems.
Stacona1 votes

You replied to a sarcastic comment...

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Exactly. Using sarcasm, "congratulations" becomes "that's just stupid". And I disagree.

Kuroi861 votes

Lb needs tweaking on how quickly she can harass/burst.
Zed needs some base damage moved to his scaling so he can transfer a little power out of his early game without hurting his late game.

Kat recently got a pretty significant nerf and Irelia has been the poster girl for nerfs for quite a while lol. Kat' problem is her reliance on her ult, it packs so much damage that unless you've stomped her by lvl 6 the chances of you winning lane drop significantly. Irelia' kit is just insanely strong and number nerfs aren't going to do much when she can simply build duelist/bruiser and simply out scale most lane opponents.

Stacona1 votes

Katarina has received zero nerfs whatsoever

Irelia needs a rework and one that makes sense that she uses floating blades, right now insane CC duration [a lot longer than what the tooltip reads, this a long standing bug which Riot still has not fixed] insane damage while being a tank, immune to CC, and insane mobility, while also getting waveclear - there are many things wrong with Irelia to why she needs a rework

Compare Leblanc's damage to Anivia's, Velkoz's, or Malzahar - even if Leblanc was an immobile champion her damage output is still insanely high add the mobility and you have an insanely anti-fun champion to play against in the game - they sort of went in the right direction with Kassadin when they nerfed his base damages, that is what they need to do with every other mobile champion so that mobility champions are insanely weak for damage to compensate their mobility (Kassadin still needs many nerfs btw) and in other games you see fast targets deal low damage like thiefs in Fire Emblem sure are super fast and have multiple attacks but pretty much deal like nothing to literally no damage to tanks while the slower moving characters like mages and archers are meant to deal high damage- a game where you are player vs computer for the most part as better balancing for PvP in this area than the PvP game

Also Vel'Koz's and Malzahar's biggest power moments is when they completely remove their mobility which is their ultimates to place them in a vulnerable state for possible counter attack and is not just simply dash onto you 2000 units away, one shot you, and then blink back 3000 units away leaving zero room for counter play --- i personally think Riot can balance mages the best, but has no clue on how to balance Assassins and Bruisers (which they have stated in the past by the way) but mobility should be 50% or less damage than the AVERAGE immobile champion considering the champion also does not have some other catch like insane utility like Ashe and somewhat Varus but even then they probably still shouldn't out damage these types at all for having mobility

Kuroi861 votes

Katarina has received zero nerfs whatsoever

Patch 4.20 Death lotus Cooldown increased to 90 / 60 / 45 seconds from 60 / 52.5 / 45. Base damage reduced to 350 / 550 / 750 from 400 / 575 / 750.

Patch 3.01 Shunpo Damage reduction duration reduced to 1.5 seconds from 3. Bouncing blades Initial damage reduced to 60/85/110/135/160 from 60/90/120/150/180.

Not to mention the 5.4 nerf on her Voracity.
Do some research before making claims like that. Seriously.

Irelia needs a rework and one that makes sense that she uses floating blades, right now insane CC duration [a lot longer than what the tooltip reads, this a long standing bug which Riot still has not fixed] insane damage while being a tank, immune to CC, and insane mobility, while also getting waveclear - there are many things wrong with Irelia to why she needs a rework

While her damage isn't insane, she does tend to outscale people thanks to Hiten Style and it's on hit life return and true damage. Even if you're winning the fight against her Equilibrium strike pretty much ensures you're not going to win the trade or fight short of being Warwick. Agreed her mobility is good, though thankfully somewhat gated, her waveclear though is ass as she lacks any AoE except for her ult.

Compare Leblanc's damage to Anivia's, Velkoz's, or Malzahar

LeBlanc 1435 (+ 370AP)

Anivia 710 (+ 200 AP) with her ult taking 5 seconds to make up the difference in base damage and 7 seconds to outdo LB in scaling.

Vel'Koz 1605 (+ 233 AP) 615 from passive procs

Malzahar 1170 (+290 AP) 674 % health damage (Calculated from Anivia' health which is lowest in the game. Also this goes up by 5% per 100 AP)

Hm, outside of Anivia, LB is going to be pretty well out damaged.

they sort of went in the right direction with Kassadin when they nerfed his base damages, that is what they need to do with every other mobile champion so that mobility champions are insanely weak for damage to compensate their mobility

Yes... because that's what assassins should be known for, doing shit damage. You sir need a wake up call.

dash onto you 2000 units away, one shot you, and then blink back 3000 units away

YAY FOR MASSIVELY OVER BLOWING A CHAMPIONS ABILITIES UNTIL THEY LOOK OVERPOWERED!!! Forget the fact that said champ would have to be insanely fed vs her target being three levels behind for this to even be possible.

but even then they probably still shouldn't out damage these types at all for having mobility

Except they typically don't. Compare Ashe full build to Kalista full build. All Ashe has to do is land her ult, then follow up with an E and crit auto and walk away and Kalista has lost 70-80% of her health with no ability to counter. Compare this to the fact that Kalista needs her support to auto Ashe as well as her Q and three to four autos to deal similar damage. Even with Runaan's, AS boots and Bork, it still takes Kalista longer than Ashe to output this damage.

Now comparing LB to Anivia, Vel'Koz and Malzahar. LB has a ton of single target damage. But in a team fight situation the three mages will deal out a lot more damage thanks to their AoE. Vel'Koz in return for immobilizing himself, can deal upwards of 25-50% of an enemy teams total health with a well placed ult, even if he doesn't get a chance to use it's full duration, one and a half seconds will not only deal massive damage but proc his passive on multiple targets for BIG damage.

Dengeden3 votes

Meanwhile LeeSin Leblanc Zed can only do that under exceptional circumstances... usually because you're being exceptionally stupid. Also he didn't "ignore" the front line, he shred it and then said hi to the back line. And inc. LB nerf, brah.

Junkο5 votes

If you do the math you will realize these LB nerfs aren't even close to nerfs.

DrCyanide2 votes

Something like 60 damage lost when she has 800 AP if I recall right. Really makes you wonder "why?".

Dengeden1 votes

Isn't that true for most nerfs? Let's be honest, unless something really fundamental is removed (cough cough AS slow LeeSin cough).

Junkο1 votes

Only for LC$BIGPLAY$ champions like Zed, Lissandra, Nidalee, LB, Lee Sin and the like. Veigar got major nerfs in what were supposed to be buffs. Azir got WAY overnerfed. Most new champions also get nerfed hard, Gnar is now just a pure tank because he doesn't have any damage anymore and Rek'sai took huge damage nerfs also.

Dengeden1 votes

Yup, just ignore my subtle hint that Lee's nerf was substantial :^)

Also seriously, Veigar got reworked, not directly buffed or nerfed. So, you're just going to blame Riot for gutting champions by claiming they're not flashy enough? And then proceed to blame them for not gutting champions because they're apparently too flashy? Damned if they do, damned if they don't...

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