Guesses on how long before new champ gets a rework?

only zhule·Dec 12, 2019·11 votes·10,188 views

I'm going to be honest unless this guy has INSANELY high cooldowns on all his abilities, i think this champion is going to be a train wreck. How do you balance a champion with 10+ passives, and 10+ actives?

Like honestly lets look at this guy. He has a turret, a medium range lifesteal auto, a passive slow that can also be a multi stun, a very fast short range/ melee attack that adds bonus damage to 3/4 of his other weapons, a cone AOE effect with larger AOE if it crits, and a long range poke that allows you to trigger an unlimited range heal/slow/ bonus damage/ or AOE.

Like MAYBE this can be balanced with limited ammo on every gun, but this dude is getting 50 triggers of each weapon effect and even if he runs out of ammo he gets a new gun (and new combo of abilities) instantly.

31 Comments

Dope SoloDec 12, 201911 votes

Riot no longer cares about the integrity of the game.

A Real TrollDec 12, 20199 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-12T04:23:07.050+0000)

Riot no longer cares about the integrity of the game.

whatever sells them skins wins

Dope SoloDec 12, 20191 votes

And shoes, and handbags and jackets. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

SaezioDec 12, 20198 votes

Riot employee no 1: How about this champion that has 5 different weapons and all his spells change with each weapon and he can hold 2 weapons at once? Riot employee no 2: Sure sure, but how do we avoid another Irelia/Akali fiasco? I don't like balancing at all mate. Riot employee no 1: What if I told you we don't even need to balance him? Bob here used to work with the TfT team, he will explain. Bob: i GoT tHRee LeTteRs foR yOu gENtS, r N G

Därk PassageDec 13, 20192 votes

lol you know it's not rng right, it's a fixed order every game

Romans VI XXIIIDec 12, 20196 votes

I mean...surprise? its a CertainlyT champion, of course its going to be completely overloaded, and be a balancing nightmare, thats part of the package.

iiGazeiiDec 12, 20195 votes

Aphelios doesn't have all of those effects at once. At any given moment, he can only hit you with two basic abilities and his ult. Most champs can throw three basic abilities and an ult at you. If he times it right, he can maybe do more, but that only happens infrequently. It takes him a while to burn through the ammo in one of his guns.

only zhuleDec 12, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Aphelios doesn't have all of those effects at once. At any given moment, he can only hit you with two basic abilities and his ult. Most champs can throw three basic abilities and an ult at you. If he times it right, he can maybe do more, but that only happens infrequently. It takes him a while to burn through the ammo in one of his guns.

Most champs have 2 active abilities that matter at any give time. You can plan around them pretty easily. I don't have to worry about Caitlyn suddenly having Ashe 's slow for the next 1-2 mins.

I'm not 100% he will be broken, but i feel like it's pretty freaking hard to balance a champion who has access to passive healing, slows, bonus attack range, cleave, and damage. As well as Caitlyn 's poke, Kaisa 's multi hit, a possible multi stun, a big cone AOE, and a turret. Hope you know which 2 your up against each time you have to fight him, and have plans for all the combos of those 2 guns abilities.

Crescent DuskDec 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:13:25.100+0000)

Most champs have 2 active abilities that matter at any give time. You can plan around them pretty easily. I don't have to worry about suddenly having 's slow for the next 1-2 mins.

I'm not 100% he will be broken, but i feel like it's pretty freaking hard to balance a champion who has access to passive healing, slows, bonus attack range, cleave, and damage. As well as 's poke, 's multi hit, a possible multi stun, a big cone AOE, and a turret. Hope you know which 2 your up against each time you have to fight him, and have plans for all the combos of those 2 guns abilities.

Those are all mutually exclusive at the time they're being used, though. It's like claiming Kayn can gank through walls and heal. Sure, but if he uses the shadowwalk to gank through a wall instead of when he needs a heal, it's a choice in utility he has to make. Ditto with using ult as red kayn to dodge CC when you might not need the heal.

only zhuleDec 13, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T05:05:07.920+0000)

Those are all mutually exclusive at the time they're being used, though. It's like claiming Kayn can gank through walls and heal. Sure, but if he uses the shadowwalk to gank through a wall instead of when he needs a heal, it's a choice in utility he has to make. Ditto with using ult as red kayn to dodge CC when you might not need the heal.

I hold by my comment. I think the kit is overloaded and it will be a problem champ in about 2-4 weeks when people finally get to his skill floor and start testing the ceiling.

ArfBarkBoofDec 12, 20195 votes

He was a collab champion with CertainlyT helming the design with all those passives he shoved into it. Rather than doing anything outside of ignoring Warwick's Blood Hunt bug that's been around forever, he's not going to get anything more than maybe a light slap on the wrist.

Spooky SkeletonDec 12, 20194 votes

If you can't easily explain a champions kit to a newer player, then that champion shouldn't be in league. I dont know who came up with him or why he has to have all this crap in his kit, but boy what a mistake.

League became popular due to the simplicity of the game, it was super easy to pick up and play.

BoomerDec 12, 20194 votes

League became popular because mobas were gaining momentum, and LoL was the only free to play one. That's it. Nothing else.

NelsieLisnenDec 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spooky Skeleton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-12T11:05:17.710+0000)

If you can't easily explain a champions kit to a newer player, then that champion shouldn't be in league. I dont know who came up with him or why he has to have all this crap in his kit, but boy what a mistake.

League became popular due to the simplicity of the game, it was super easy to pick up and play.

Who came up with that? Because there are many, now classic, MOBA characters that are complicated and hard to explain, like Invoker, Meepo, Morphling, Earth Spirit, just to name a few I know. Yes league was an entry level game, but over time people get bored of the same old stuff. Honestly Aphelios is the perfect champ for people with short attention spans. His kit might be complicated, but most of it pilots itself. Anyway, if this champ makes you wanna throw stuff at the monitor, I think you'll like the new juggernaut. He's basically punch-punch-punch-SUPLEX-punch.

NemeBroDec 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spooky Skeleton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-12T11:05:17.710+0000)

If you can't easily explain a champions kit to a newer player, then that champion shouldn't be in league. I dont know who came up with him or why he has to have all this crap in his kit, but boy what a mistake.

League became popular due to the simplicity of the game, it was super easy to pick up and play.

ok boomer

PB4UAMEDec 14, 20191 votes

Remember when RIOT actually gave a fuck about Burden of Knowledge and In Game Clarity? Pepperidge Farm remembers. . .

BârdDec 13, 20194 votes

He's fine.

Even if he theoretically has a lot of shit, there's a ton he doesn't have.

Reliability. Nothing he has can be used on demand, you need to have it ready. Having a slow in your kit doesn't mean shit if you're on Chakram+Severum and Trynd is going for you NOW.
Mobility. He has a small speed boost on one ability, and that's all he's got.
Durability. He's squishy as fuck.

Legion990Dec 14, 20193 votes

Oh look, 2 out of 3 of your "downsides" just got fixed because he has a Yummi on his back. He's an overpowered and broken crap champ that is yet again released in a massively overpowered state to sell skins, and the champ himself, then nerf him once the sales die down, they did the exact same thing with Senna and many others.

BârdDec 14, 20192 votes

That... that isn't how this works.

That isn't how any of this works.

No, no they don't. After the changes, Zoomies is pathetic as both a haste and a heal. Bop and Block is about enough shielding to block one AA or basic ability.
Even if we were talking Old Yuumi (which is irrelevant since those two have never existed concurrently), she wouldn't be able to stop Aphy from getting bursted since he's almost completely immobile, has very limited CC, and is squishier than average even among ADC's, so by the time Final Chapter roots the assailant Aphy is fucking dead.
He's not going to have a Yuumi on his back every game because, surprise surprise, other champions exist.
Even if Yuumi bropke Aphy, and even if solo queue players were cooperative enough to go Yuumi every game instead of their preferred champion, that doesn't mean Aphy is broken since Yuumi does this to everybody. Yuumi in her heyday was broken enough that she could turn Garen into a hard carry and make Maokai literally unkillable. Aphelios "being a champion who can exist in the same game as Yuumi" does not make him broken by association.

ArammusDec 14, 20194 votes

how do you rework a champ that has 20 spells (as you mentioned yourself)? you cant.

option paralysisDec 12, 20193 votes

aphelios just did 1800 dmg to me in half a second, Idk how but hey man he's an adc so it's ok. :)

KynamiDec 12, 20192 votes

I will say that if you are the only one near him when he pops ult on the glaive weapon you are in for an incredibly bad time. TTK on that is incredibly low on anything that doesn't have over 3K health.

Worst JG WinsDec 12, 20193 votes

He won't. Riot's current balance team is sadly more concerned with their champs being "edgy and different" and less concerned with balance. If they were concerned at all with balance the only champs released the past 3 years would be Kayn, Neeko, Ornn and maybe Senna.

NørthDec 12, 20192 votes

I'd replace Senna with Sylas honestly - he is not as obnoxious as she is, his lore is pretty well placed in the universe and well, his kit is not that bad, it has it's own little gimmick. But it should be kind of limited - Sylas steals magic, not everything he can. The list of ultimates he can steal should be narrowed down to those that are actual magic and not a physical ability or stuff.

Although I'd like to know why do you consider Senna a balanced champion released, mind elaborating more on that one?

DynikusDec 12, 20192 votes

but from the look of it this dude is getting like 40-100 triggers of each weapon effect

every gun has 50 rounds Q* (not W) uses 10 rounds every time (but can still be used if he's under 10)

he has a convoluted kit, but I don't think it will be that hard to balance.

only zhuleDec 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

every gun has 50 rounds W uses 10 rounds every time (but can still be used if he's under 10)

he has a convoluted kit, but I don't think it will be that hard to balance.

Good to know that changing weapons does cost him something (thought lost ammo is good in it's own way). I disagree i think it's going to be hell to balance his kit. Or they are going to make him need to be Sona levels of squishy.

I really want to know his various attack ranges and how his ratios are going to work.

DynikusDec 12, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:17:24.633+0000)

Good to know that changing weapons does cost him something (thought lost ammo is good in it's own way). I disagree i think it's going to be hell to balance his kit. Or they are going to make him need to be levels of squishy.

I really want to know his various attack ranges and how his ratios are going to work.

sorry, I meant his q costs 10 ammo every time, not his W. W is free.

RadeticDrawsDec 12, 20192 votes

If they reduce the amount of ammo he has in each weapon, the faster he will be switching between them. Do you want that? Neither do I. At least in his current state he isnt pick or ban from what i saw

NaughtyWordDec 14, 20191 votes

With as overloaded as Aphelios is, someone at Riot owes Kalista an apology. She didn't have even half the amount of abilities as at her peak and they dumpstered her for it.