But i remember when Riot just gutted 
for having a decent win rate for a week in 2 lanes.
While 
on other hand been a toxic champion since Dark havest rework, got a high banned rate, winrate and pick rate for almost 2 months now since pre-season and nothing legit nothing touched him.
Just another biased thing from the balance team.
Noor Sakata31 votesFor a week ? Wukong was 1 shooting for seasons but people suddenly started the circle jerk Not like he was balanced or anything, he was never balance , I would have agreed with you, but you're only circle jerking because of Wukong and keep complaining . Edit : forgot to mention , not like you care about Karthus anyway, you just want everything to be gutted because they nerfed the champion that 1 shoots you from stealth.
kingDeDeDarius4 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:30:06.550+0000)
For a week ? Wukong was 1 shooting for seasons but people suddenly started the circle jerk Not like he was balanced or anything, he was never balance , I would have agreed with you, but you're only circle jerking because of Wukong and keep complaining . Edit : forgot to mention , not like you care about Karthus anyway, you just want everything to be gutted because they nerfed the champion that 1 shoots you from stealth.
Yeah I think this sums up their sentiment. Karthus may it may not be broken, and I don't play him mind you, but I hardly think he counts as one of the absurd problems in this game overall. Rather him than ekki, irelia, riven, lb, vayne, Yas, or pyke tbh. Heh...notice how it's mostly the hypermobile types with too many mechanics
saltran20 votesI watched LS review of 9.2 and he was freaking out about Karthus being untouched, and he even claims that Karthus was buffed indirectly due to Red smite nerf.
Edit: https://youtu.be/0Ic_D4eAUdw (28:20s he talks about him, also somewhere earlier in the video he talked a bit about him I think)
I'm literally permabanning that shit on ranked, (or if not it's muy supp who bans him).
But he's a mage, good luck complaining about him on the Boards, for my part I'm upvoting the thread.
ValiantKiller6 votesI watched LS review of 9.2 and he was freaking out about Karthus being untouched, and he even claims that Karthus was buffed indirectly due to Red smite nerf.
I'm literally permabanning that shit on ranked, (or if not it's muy supp who bans him).
But he's a mage, good luck complaining about him on the Boards, for my part I'm upvoting the thread.
Welcome to worlds, where they know things is broken and comment on it yet do nothing.
Ifneth3 votesWelcome to the wild— No heroes and villains. Welcome to the war We’ve only begun.
So, pick up your weapon And face it. There’s blood on the crown Go and take it.
This is your moment. Take to the skies To prove yourself and RISE!
FOR JUSTICE12 votessee in cases like this, remember mechanically simple champions kind of have to be weaker, considering theyre walking stat checks. you have to draw a specific balance between easy to play and how hard they can carry, because with champions like such there isnt exactly an in-between due to their naturally linear playstyles.
ValiantKiller12 votes[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:04:16.676+0000)
see in cases like this, remember mechanically simple champions kind of have to be weaker, considering theyre walking stat checks. you have to draw a specific balance between easy to play and how hard they can carry, because with champions like such there isnt exactly an in-between due to their naturally linear playstyles.
I don't see any mechanically on a champion that press R and then kill most of squishy not to mention able to clear wave better than most of core junglers right now.
Neither i see him healthy while he can poke top laners and destroy them while out damage late game all mages and in some case running over his laner if they are weak.
is legit liner champion that scale with items and require his q to be skillshot otherwise he just 
etc in my eyes.
Moonscourge8 votesI don't see any mechanically on a champion that press R and then kill most of squishy not to mention able to clear wave better than most of core junglers right now. Neither i see him healthy while he can poke top laners and destroy them while out damage late game all mages and in some case running over his laner if they are weak.
His R can be Zhonyas'd, blocked by a spellshield, shielded in general... It's very predictable and suffers from being entirely avoidable if you're prepared. Wukong goes in and then you're knocked up. You cannot possibly avoid it unless you had vision on it, neither can mates help you besides giving you a shield or heal, then risk being knocked up or killed themselves.
And you said it. His Q is poke. If he hits it and they aren't standing inside a minion, in which case they don't take nearly as much damage.
ValiantKiller6 votes[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:26:15.649+0000)
His R can be Zhonyas'd, blocked by a spellshield, shielded in general... It's very predictable and suffers from being entirely avoidable if you're prepared. Wukong goes in and then you're knocked up. You cannot possibly avoid it unless you had vision on it, neither can mates help you besides giving you a shield or heal, then risk being knocked up or killed themselves.
And you said it. His Q is poke. If he hits it and they aren't standing inside a minion, in which case they don't take nearly as much damage.
And still it sounds like you super fine with his winrate, so go ahead i don't care let the game kill it players slowly cause people like you want to defend such actions from over buffing champions or leaving them op for the love of some skins or worlds.
Moonscourge4 votesAnd still it sounds like you super fine with his winrate, so go ahead i don't care let the game kill it players slowly cause people like you want to defend such actions from over buffing champions or leaving them op for the love of some skins or worlds.
Nope, but it's also inflated by many people having no concept of playing against him. What makes him strong is that he can "gank" bot by just pressing R, the same thing GP also does and what makes him cancerous to everybody on the map not only his lane opponent. That has always been there. Dark Harvest is one of the problems here and makes it viable in the first place, since his ult damage alone is pitiful where it matters the most.
Shiroe Okazaki6 votesnot everychampion can buy a zhonyas. You onlly get once stopwatch. and for those who can viably use it. have a 5 minute cd on GA.
200220124 votesThere is this thing called Maw
Shiroe Okazaki3 votesOk buy a maw. Get 300 hp AP shield. so maybe sometimes you live? His r damage ramps up to around 600-800 normally. If he buys pen, he'll ignore most of the MR on the item.
200220122 votesThe item gives 50 MR, Karthus has to buy literally all Magic Penetration items to nullify the MR you get from a single item. 3 to 1. Think about it a bit.
He has to spend 1100 + 1600 + 2650 = 5350 gold to counter the 50 MR you got on an item that's almost half the price. Not to mention you get to soak up almost half of his ults damage with the passive.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesvoid staff. 45% pen. think a moment. you dont need all that gold. only 2650 for void. which you normally get anyway. that or maybe morello cause its still kinda out there rn.
200220121 votes40% Magic Pen would mean that in order to nullify 50 MR, a champion would need to have 125 MR, which is way more than a maw. Considering ADCs have 32 MR, buying Maw will set them to around 85 MR alongside scaling, which would make Void Staff ignore 34 MR. Therefore, you would need another MPen item to be 1 MPen off 50, so you need all 3.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesits 40% less TOTAL mr. along iwth sorc shoes most mages will have. Including karthus. Its still gonna do alot of damage. dark harvest and his ulti is gonna destroy most champs below half hp.
200220121 votesOK. And Sorc shoes and Void Staff still don't penetrate 50 MR on an ADC.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesIf an adc is against a karthus. Their 9/10 times gonna die. Either after killing him. Or while he's dead.
200220121 votesThe same could be said for virtually any assassin, diver, bruiser and mage.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesmages have zhonyas so not them. and the rest yea they all die to karthus
200220121 votesADs have Maw (which, probably to your surprise, is actually bough regularly above silver!). Also, Edge of Night.
Noor Sakata1 votesPretty much , but is 800-1000 damage is enough to kill you ? Nope , its less than half of your hp and it's like an excute ability , no one uses it for engages
Shiroe Okazaki1 voteseveryone uses is for executes and you just said its an execute. you kinda just proved your self wrong ya know.
Noor Sakata1 votesIt's like you ran out of ideas and started throwing anything lmao I said , no one uses it for engages , it doesn't 100-0 anyone .
Draconian5652 votesAnd who can buy Maw without sacrificing or delaying their core items? Your ADC is trolling if they get Maw and cuts their damage output in teamfights by a lot, effectively throwing their purpose for picking that champ, which is to scale.
That's literally why mages are in the bot lane now - ADCs don't have a mid game damage output that exceeds mages and mages can build defensively without sacrificing any offensive stats because Zhonyas and Banshee's give over 75 AP each.
200220121 votesRiot's official scalings are 0.6 AD per point of AP. This would mean that buying Zhonyas would equal to an item having 0.6 * 75 AP AD, or in other words 45 AD. So Maw not only gives more offensive stats than Zhonyas, it also gives you more utility - since Zhonya's provides Armor which is less valuable than Magic Resist, and it can have no effect if used incorrectly, while Maw can ALWAYS be used to its full potential. I won't even comment on the other stats its passive gives when triggered, as well as having a better build path. It doesn't even lack the CDR part. And lastly, ADs can buy GA as well, while Mages are not encouraged to spend money on AD.
So no, Maw does not make your ADC trolling, if your ADC plays something other than Lucian and Kaisa, that's trolling, otherwise just play a mage bot and be done with it. Riot never wanted to dictate the meta but to let the players decide what is best in certain situations, and only change a champion if there is an inherrent problem with them that makes them too strong or too weak at what they should be doing based on their kit. It all comes down to whether or not you want to play what is strong. If you don't, then you can't complain that a whole class is weak just because the champs you play are absolute garbage.
Draconian5652 votesIt doesn't matter what Riot's official scaling is. What happens in game is what matters.
Mages hit 2 targets with their AOE abilities, which many mages have, and they DOUBLE the damage output of a melee. AND they don't lose much by going Zhonyas. This is on top of the fact that many AP items give 75+ AP (Spellbinder gives 200 at full charge, Rabadon's increases everything by 25%, Rylai's give 90 AP and 300 health). Riot's scaling don't account for multi-target damage, only the raw value of AP/AD.
To build Hexdrinker 2nd on an ADC is the equivalent of putting yourself 1200g behind your core items, which means the enemy ADC already has a 1200g advantage - this is assuming we're talking about crit ADCs.
If you made a Lucian go BORK, Hexdrinker, and Phage, he's infinitely weaker than a Lucian with BORK and BC.
It's not a matter of whether they have the option to build defensively, it's that they have to OR they die. Yes they could continue their main core item build, but mages then do close to true damage with Oblivion Orb's and Sorceror's Shoes's magic pen, which again, doesn't sacrifice much since they get health and they get early game presence by effectively increasing their base damage output by 25% with those two items alone.
200220121 votesYou do realize that when mages go Zhonya rush they lose damage as well? Or are you going to be completely biased and ignore the fact that going a defensive item will and should reduce your offensive potential? And you do realize that Oblivion Orb gives way less effective health than Hexdrinker despite being much more expensive?
Draconian5651 votesIt's still 75 AP, 45 Armor, 10% CDR.
Sorry if you're normal standard is 90-120 AP per item, which just shows how overtuned the items are, just with raw stats. Mage items sit on 95%-110% Gold Efficiency with just raw stats, while having better passive/actives.
Maw is 50 AD, 50 MR 10% CDR (25 less damage, 5 more MR). Are you really going to say that Zhonya's active is worse than Hexdrinkers?
200220121 votesAD is more worth than AP, that's the first thing. It's not 25 less damage, unless you want to claim that every AP scaling is 100% and above.
Second of all, not only does it have more MR than Zbonyas has Armor, but MR is also more valuable than Armor.
Also, yes, I'm going to say that. Zhonya's active not only has to be manually activated, it also leaves you vulnerable. It's a defensive item that is the jack of all trades, winner of none. Situationally, it can be better (against physical damage), but GA is better than Zhonya in that department anyways. Maw ALWAYS does its job. It doesn't out you at risk for using its potential, it encourages you to fight kn the edge. People often overlook how much extra survivability and sustain it gives you, not to mention that even if we were to take your fallacious claim that it is 25 less damage as correct, the passive makes up for it. Back when it had Armor Penetration, it was more or less a must-buy on every AD champion. Offense and defense on an item is very valuable.
After all, there is a reason the item costs more, than Zhonya while being in the same category.
As for your gold efficiency argument, it is conplete bullshit because we aren't rating basic and advanced items, but finished items. When your argument would be used by others like you're using it, Luden's Echo and BORK would both be shit items.
Draconian5651 votesBecause the ability to multi-hit on basically every mage isn't enough. You're effectively applying 75 AP worth of scaling on every target, not just one target.
Zhonyas is infinitely more useful than Maw because you completely negate an all-in, whereas Maw just increases the kill threshold for mages by 300.
Gold efficiency counts the raw stats of finished items. The fact that mage items are 90-100% gold efficiency JUST from stats, not including their passive/active is ridiculous, especially if you consider that mage actives/passives are strong as shit. Tank actives/passives are one liners.
Anyway, I'm done. Considering that you play mages, it'll be impossible to convince you otherwise that mages are systematically busted - with higher damage outputs by being able to hit multiple targets (effectively 2-5x more damage than AD champs, which are mostly single target focused), higher AP per item, lack of MR options that don't gut damage output for other classes, etc.
^All of these are true if you would look at the game and not just sit back citing Riot's equivalency. If mages were 1-on-1, yes, it would be fair, but it's not when most mages have AOE capability.
200220121 votesYou say mages are busted and ADs are weak because spells CAN be AoE, yet you do not realize that currently viable ADs both have plenty of AoE damage and you fail to recognize that ADs can not only deal damage off cooldowns, but faster too because of attack speed. Not only that, they get to heal from dealing damage in a non-convoluted way.
You also failed to recognise that the mage class hasn't been viable anywhere but support in a very long time; currently mid lane is inhabited by assassins and divers.
Finally, you completely missed the original point, which was that Karthus is indeed counterable by a single item for which he needs 5k gold in order to nullify the defensive part and that by buying it, ADs aren't auto losing due to the tempo loss.
Draconian5651 votesAnd how many AAs do AD Champions get to use with the AS? They don't. In fights, unless they have huge amounts of AS and a range advantage or low CD dashes or CC, they're not going to be AAing that often. Look at Zed, how many AAs is he going to get off in a combo? 1 or 2? The only person spamming AAs in a fight are Crit ADCs, who have far less AD due to crit item itemization.
Top 14 Mid Laners in term of Tiers = 11 AP Champions.
Top 14 Mid Laners in terms of Pick Rate = 9 AP Champions.
I don't care if mages haven't been viable in the past. They're a problem now. It doesn't justify making them strong because they've been doing average in teh past. I don't even know where you're getting the fact that mages haven't been meta. Assassin/divers also include mages. Mobility and CC is a huge factor in what's viable/meta, which many mages have now.
And again, you missed the point that not everyone can build MR, especially with the utter shit MR itemization. Mages get 30% CDR from Luden's + Zhonyas, and AP. That's all they need. Zhonyas STILL gives 75 AP, which is higher than most AD items. To say that a Karthus can ult to deal 1250 damage with his ult because of 2 magic pen components and then say "oh man, Zhonyas is 45 Armor, it's not effective." He might've done more if he went Luden's Rabadon's or something, but relative to AD champs, he's still doing far more, while forcing everyone to build MR. This is the same for all mages.
Maybe it's been too long for you, but look at this: Zhonya's Hourglass is 96.48% gold efficient without its active. Banshee's Veil is 99.26% gold efficient.
Guardian Angel is 84.82% gold efficient without its passive. Mercurial Scimitar is 81.03% gold efficient without its active.
Mages have more room for defensive options. This is statistically proven by their gold efficiency, which means that X item has X stats per amount of gold.
Making double magic pen readily available for every mages by shifting it from Haunting Guise to Morello was an idiotic decision, especially when you let mages do near true damage with each ability.
200220121 votesAnd how many AAs do AD Champions get to use with the AS? They don't. In fights, unless they have huge amounts of AS and a range advantage or low CD dashes or CC, they're not going to be AAing that often. Look at Zed, how many AAs is he going to get off in a combo? 1 or 2? The only person spamming AAs in a fight are Crit ADCs, who have far less AD due to crit item itemization.
Anecdotal evidence once more. You're comparing Zed to other ADs when Zed HAS NO NEED to land multiple AAs. Why didn't you, for an example, do it with Jayce whose full combo is 4 AAs, or Darius, whose full combo is 3-4 AAs, Or Irelia, or Illaoi, or Nocturne, or Talon etc? You're like "Boohoo it's only a few attacks". Yes, a few attacks that each do damage almost equal to an entire ability.
Top 14 Mid Laners in term of Tiers = 11 AP Champions.
Top 14 Mid Laners in terms of Pick Rate = 9 AP Champions.
I don't care if mages haven't been viable in the past. They're a problem now. It doesn't justify making them strong because they've been doing average in teh past. I don't even know where you're getting the fact that mages haven't been meta. Assassin/divers also include mages. Mobility and CC is a huge factor in what's viable/meta, which many mages have now.
That's a very strange metric, 14 champs. Let's use the classic 10.
So looking at OP.gg we can see why midlane champs are good.
Firat we have Zoe which has been broken since release. She doesn't represent the strenght of mages, but the foolishness of Riot's champion designers.
Second is Talon, a champion that is not overloaded and is just strong. Imagine, Talon is an AD champion! But mages are OP!!!! Obviously only when overloaded.
Then there is Cassiopeia, the chanp that just got nerfed due to how toxic her Q spam is and a champion who is probanly in line for a W nerf.
Lissandra is just a good AP bruiser. She has good CC, good wave clear and nice damage even when you build tankier. She doesn't really belong to the class of mage unless you want to generalize mages to be champs that use AP mostly for their pool, but then KogMaw is a mage too.
Then we have Zed who is just a good all around champion and he would need to be unplayable not to be in the top 10 mid champs.
LB is not even a mage but an assasin.
Yasuo would be nerfed into the ground not to be viable and perfectly counters your argument that AD chanos can get 1 or 2 autos at most. What is funny that if Yasuo landed just 1-2 attacks, it would be damage equal to 1.5-2 abilities 😂😂😂
Karthus is strong everywhere because of Dark Harvest. Take that from him and he will go back to trash tier.
Vlad is not even a mage, but a drain tank. He would have to be unplayable not to be in the top 10 because of how versatile he is.
Katarina is an assassin.
So funnily, in the top 10 there were only 3 mages if we don't count Zoe as an assassin.
And again, you missed the point that not everyone can build MR, especially with the utter shit MR itemization. Mages get 30% CDR from Luden's + Zhonyas, and AP. That's all they need. Zhonyas STILL gives 75 AP, which is higher than most AD items. To say that a Karthus can ult to deal 1250 damage with his ult because of 2 magic pen components and then say "oh man, Zhonyas is 45 Armor, it's not effective." He might've done more if he went Luden's Rabadon's or something, but relative to AD champs, he's still doing far more, while forcing everyone to build MR. This is the same for all mages.
Mages get 20% from what you mentioned, 75 AP is like we established earlier not equal to 75 AP, like it's funny how much you reference gold efficiency, but when it goes against you you just keep quiet how 1 AD is worth 35 gold, and 1 AP is worth 21.75 gold. Karthus can't deal 1250 with his ult in any normal game, or if you want to argue "His tooltip says so!!!" then we can turn it into a dick measuring contest where I can say, well, Zed can deal 3k with his ultimate, so what?
Gee imagine damage dealers forcing people to build defensively, that's so crazy.
Alright, but unless you want to argue that AP always scales 1:1 with an abikity, you have no point. Even when looking at the top 10 midlane champs, the only one who has ratios that scale near that or above is Zoe with her insanely broken Q. Then you look at AD champs, and every AD champ in the top 10 has at least one ability that scales with 100% AD, or above.
Maybe it's been too long for you, but look at this: Zhonya's Hourglass is 96.48% gold efficient without its active. Banshee's Veil is 99.26% gold efficient.
Guardian Angel is 84.82% gold efficient without its passive. Mercurial Scimitar is 81.03% gold efficient without its active.
Mages have more room for defensive options. This is statistically proven by their gold efficiency, which means that X item has X stats per amount of gold.
Gold efficiency has no meaning without relations. You are judging gold efficiency by stats alone when AD items have far more useful and consistent abilities. Why didn't you, for an example, present Edge of Night? Or why didn't you present Deaths Dance? Both have better gold efficiency than their counterparts. Why did Maw exit your argument? Was it because when activated it would go to 120% gold efficiency?
Making double magic pen readily available for every mages by shifting it from Haunting Guise to Morello was an idiotic decision, especially when you let mages do near true damage with each ability.
But ADs have triple Lethality options ??????????????
kingDeDeDarius3 votesAnd who can buy Maw without sacrificing or delaying their core items? Your ADC is trolling if they get Maw and cuts their damage output in teamfights by a lot, effectively throwing their purpose for picking that champ, which is to scale.
That's literally why mages are in the bot lane now - ADCs don't have a mid game damage output that exceeds mages and mages can build defensively without sacrificing any offensive stats because Zhonyas and Banshee's give over 75 AP each.
Oh you mean people have to Counterbuild?? Good, they should have to. I have always had to as darius against adc crit and mage burst. Why should adcs and other classes always be able to build whatever the heck they want? Counterbuild g is a strategy and belongs as part of the game depth. Like any choice, it has its pros and cons like "do I build item A and boost my damage, B which boosts my survivability, C which does a little of both, or D for some other purpose (armor shred, grievous wounds, etc.). People need to stop fricken whining when they can't build broken builds every game. Some games, the adc or assassin SHOULD HAVE TO just get by
Daddy Ants3 votesOh you mean people have to Counterbuild?? Good, they should have to. I have always had to as darius against adc crit and mage burst. Why should adcs and other classes always be able to build whatever the heck they want? Counterbuild g is a strategy and belongs as part of the game depth. Like any choice, it has its pros and cons like "do I build item A and boost my damage, B which boosts my survivability, C which does a little of both, or D for some other purpose (armor shred, grievous wounds, etc.). People need to stop fricken whining when they can't build broken builds every game. Some games, the adc or assassin SHOULD HAVE TO just get by
What you seem to misunderstand is.
Mages do NOT lose power for building items like Zhonya's and Banshee's due to their stats.
Zhonya's Hourglass is 96.48% gold efficient without its active. Banshee's Veil is 99.26% gold efficient.
Guardian Angel is 84.82% gold efficient without its passive. Mercurial Scimitar is 81.03% gold efficient without its active.
Defensive Mage itemization is all around more efficient and less punishing to build.
Maw is technically a "bruiser" item so not including it.
Irelia Bot7 votesI don't see any mechanically on a champion that press R and then kill most of squishy not to mention able to clear wave better than most of core junglers right now. Neither i see him healthy while he can poke top laners and destroy them while out damage late game all mages and in some case running over his laner if they are weak.
You serously sound like you have never actaully played pKarthus outside of perhaps ARAM. He is more sill demanding than you give hm credit for.
That being said he is over preforming for what I would say is about a 6 or 7 difficulty champ.
Shiroe Okazaki6 votesKarthus is so over stat right now. That his only mechanic is press e run into a teamfight die and press r for the ace.
kingDeDeDarius4 votes[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:04:16.676+0000)
see in cases like this, remember mechanically simple champions kind of have to be weaker, considering theyre walking stat checks. you have to draw a specific balance between easy to play and how hard they can carry, because with champions like such there isnt exactly an in-between due to their naturally linear playstyles.
Absolutely wrong. Champs should have realtively even contribution towards winning when optimally played. Otherwise, you're saying that champs like yas, riv, and irelia SHOULD be inherently better. The reward in playing mechanically challenging champs should be the satisfaction of mastering them, not being stronger. Aka, you should lose more when starting out with said champs and gradually work up to normal winrates. What you advocate is champ and playstyle elitism. Playing mechanically difficult champs shouldn't be better, it should be even. They exist for the satisfaction of players who otherwise might get board of MOBAs, but people who don't care about that strategy, and would rather play less complex champs because they like macro play, or they like a champs lore or appearance, etc, should have just as good of winrates when mastering their champs as riven, vayne, yas players, etc
3TWarrior2 voteswell, mechanically intensive champions are supposed to have a "slight" advantage, but that has gone up over time with easier access to damage and more tools to deal with more situations
of course, the average win rate is supposed to be lower as a result because they are more difficult to manage
PB4UAME1 votesNo they aren't.
They have more options availible, so when mastered they can be played even into counters. They are supposed to have skill reliant versatility, to the point where they can be OTP'ed even in Challenger if you've mastered them-- But they have NEVER been supposed to be stronger than other champions. Such a "balance" philosophy would be anything but balanced, as its inherently hypocritical and antithetical to the concept of fairness. If that actually were the case, why on earth should anyone play literally anything else except for RIOT's golden few "mechanically difficult" (fucking LOL, as if any champions are even mechanically difficult to play. I mean, really, even the most difficult to play champions are hardly more difficult to play than any others, even then its totally subjective, not to mention there are other factors like map awareness required, macro play, decision making, timing, etc etc why only focus on one mostly irrelevant factor and disregard literally everything else? Especially as a systemic design/choice.) champions, as they would simply be better for no real reason than everything else?
3TWarrior3 votesno, the reason that they have a "slight" advantage when used properly is for the opposite reason. Why would anyone use a complicated champion when they could use a much simpler champion and achieve the same results
it is supposed to be a difference so minor that the champions can turn a bad situation around, giving "out plays" , but look at everything. Most of the top champions are complicated champions because they have that innate advantage that allows them to do what a simpler champion can not without a lot of compensation in other areas such as Objective control
Big Salami Tommy1 votes[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:04:16.676+0000)
see in cases like this, remember mechanically simple champions kind of have to be weaker, considering theyre walking stat checks. you have to draw a specific balance between easy to play and how hard they can carry, because with champions like such there isnt exactly an in-between due to their naturally linear playstyles.
"pressing R is mechanically complicated"
Meteor Driz9 votesDude leave karthus alone he hasn't had his time to shine in YEARS.
Edit:
Also, champion.gg only has him at 52% win rate mid. Ranked 11th out of 46.
Stop complaining because you lost to a karthus one time.
Z3Sleeper9 votes[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pk4oLQyH,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-01-28T23:51:39.998+0000)
Stop complaining because you lost to a karthus one time.
Stop complaining because you main Karthus
See how dumb and ignorant that sounds? That’s you.
As for the “time to shine” thing. Just because a champion hasn’t been OP in awhile does not excuse them being OP.
Bârd7 votesKarthus isn't OP.
Dark Harvest, burst itemization, and Sorcs+Oblivion orb are OP.
Karthus just so happens to be the best abuser of those two factors.
He didn't become OP as a result of some massive buffs. Once Riot addresses those two, he'll be a reasonable champion again.
Bârd8 votesThey don't want to nerf Karthus because they know he's not really the issue here.
He's a symptom of Dark Harvest and burst items being too dominant.
He's been viable but not overpowered for his entire existence, and he isn't OP now because his kit is too strong, he's OP right now because...
Once the things that are propping him up get addressed, Karthus will go back to being reasonable even with no direct changes.
We don't want another Cinderhulk+Sejuani situation.
Yboat3 votesEven if building an item means you do less damage, at worst you are alive and not feeding them. At best you survive and deal out addional damage.