So why not buff its other enchantment counterparts instead of nerfing the good one? Jungle is really hard this season, no reason to nerf a item that makes you, well, strong into the jungle. Better to buff the other who are weak instead.
Fadedpf26 votes
- Basically never used buff this item
- Basically never used buff this item
- Perfect enchantment just not enough ap junglers to use it. Buff ap junglers...
- 10% more cooldown reduction or 500 health would make this a better item, to live up to the warrior enchantment.
- Perfect enchantment even after you nerfed it, and now warrior is too strong? I wonder why.
I just did all the work for you Riot
Migrañaboy1 votes
I just did all the work for you Riot
I'd say blue enchantment is good on gragas.
Fadedpf2 votesgragas is getting more buffs as it is. The enchantment is fine on any ap jungler, ap junglers are just not good right now.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesThere's only like... 3 AP junglers anyway...
Fadedpf1 votes
Most of these are rare but yeah the viable ap junglers are either too squishy, too immobile or need help clearing
SpecterVonBaren1 votes
Doesn't help that most of those are considered tanks before they're considered mages either. As much as I think Nidalee is one of the worst designed champs in the game, it is nice to see another AP jungler.
Partholonian1 votesDoesn't help that most of those are considered tanks before they're considered mages either.
Why not? Tanks are great in the jungle. AP tanks with good AOE are even better.
Not all mages have to be defined by 100-0'ing people.
junglerboy163 votesit's just that most of those AP tanks would almost always take juggernaut over magus.
Chessburger1 votesJuggernaut is just not worth it as a first item finish. Unless you really need tenacity early. I mostly skip it till like the 3rd item on tanks because it doesn't give anything substantial and money would be better used building towards important items. By that I mean, it gives mediocre amount of HP for the cost, it does nothing to help you clear faster and the 10% cdr isn't much especially due to how good scaling cdr glyphs are on tanks. The other 2 are extremely good as a first item finish because of how much stats they give and how much clearing power that translates to because they're offensive stats.
junglerboy161 votesMy point isn't that you would finish one or the other first item or not, my point is that most of those AP tanks can't afford a strictly offensive item like the magus enchantment within their build.
Chessburger1 votesMight have replied to the wrong post. I just wanted to state my opinion on it because most people who don't regularly play tank junglers are clueless about how it works to actually be able to carry your team not just to be the cc bot who soaks damage and is 90% reliant on everyone else's damage. Just so it's clear I'm talking about amumu, malph, naut.
Edit: this is for soloq
junglerboy161 votesI pretty much main tank junglers, so I do know what you mean, my point is that it is a rare situation where one can take a tank jungle and carry with them. Malphite can do it and so can Amumu, Naut I haven't seen, but also Sejuani and Sion work well when forced to carry. Of course if my team is behind or I get really ahead, I will build damage instead of tank, but it is a rare situation when that is as helpful for winning the game.
Sincarnation1 votes
Those are the AP junglers but lets be real how many of them can go Pure AP effectively?
Diana, Elise, Cho, Fiddle, Nid, Kayle, and Gragas
The AP jungle items have never been bad, its just that AP junglers are rare and usually have mana issues.
@Celestial - Actually some WW did grab Rangers (especially when switching was free) not for the HP sustain but for the AoE smite for clear speed, then you just swap to skirmishers
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votesMany of the tanky ones can build either depending on the game.
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb3 votes
Sailor Mint4 votesDo you really want to buff items that are close enough to be worth grabbing on solo laners?
DropFill12 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PegVsKpy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-24T23:24:16.597+0000)
Do you really want to buff items that are close enough to be worth grabbing on solo laners?
I have NEVER seen someone with one of the jungle items in solo lanes
Sailor Mint3 votes"Close enough" doesn't imply that it's currently good enough. But a 90-100AP Magus enchant could make Magus Skirmisher better than Ignite on many mid laners.
Sirsir10 votesSailor Mint8 votesMismatched Summoners (Smite vs Ignite) wouldn't be too different to the different Teleport vs Ignite scenario in top lane.
I'm only talking about Magus in the mid lane, and not even talking about potential level 1 Gromp buff cheese you can do in any lane.
tl;dr: There are possible changes that have no risk of spilling over in other lanes. Buffing the Magus enchant is not one of them.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesI did hear theory crafting on taking smite on Morg due to her passive.
Mandang02 votesIf you didn't have to take smite to use it, I bet you'd see a lot more..
Risurin1 votesI have NEVER seen someone with one of the jungle items in solo lanes
its because you need smite to be able to buy a machete item...yes the item are really cost efficient, but then they would need to sacrifice a summoner spell for the item.
DropFill1 votesits because you need smite to be able to buy a machete item...yes the item are really cost efficient, but then they would need to sacrifice a summoner spell for the item.
Yeah, but since you have to pick smite, I don't understand your point.
SladeXD1 votesI have. I've actually done it a few times myself because some of these actually help a lot in lane or even with objective control or when roaming.
Salt Miner 49 Er5 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PegVsKpy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-24T23:24:16.597+0000)
Do you really want to buff items that are close enough to be worth grabbing on solo laners?
There is absolutely no reason why a solo laner should be taking jungle items. It's not Wriggle's Lantern Teemo we're talking about.
Sailor Mint1 votesIf the stats get buffed enough, it'll happen.
There's only so much power you can put on a 2250g item.
Erockandroll2 votes[{quoted}](name=Monkey Trouble,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PegVsKpy,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-02-25T00:15:35.734+0000)
There is absolutely no reason why a solo laner should be taking jungle items. It's not Wriggle's Lantern Teemo we're talking about.
Riot stated that they had no problem with laner's taking smite, as long as it didn't crowd out other summoner spells. And their has been at least one instance of a smite Support in the LCS (though to not much success.)
I mention this because the value of smite in lane increases with the base value of the jungle items. With the only inefficiency being in the Jungler passive.
Nucleophilic atk4 votesWarrior enchantment isn't too strong. Just the people that use it are 
ModWulf Helhammer4 votesBecause buffing all other items to match the power level of one particularly OP item is not a good design philosophy. It just leads to a power creep as newer, more powerfull items (or champs) get released, and makes it that you have to balance a ton more things if you have to buff the weak ones (and some aren't that weak in the first place), instead of nerfing the one strong one to the levels of the others.
Here's a video illustrating this concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6oMY4U0Yw
Pyrokineticmage1 votesBecause buffing all other items to match the power level of one particularly OP item is not a good design philosophy. It just leads to a power creep as newer, more powerfull items (or champs) get released, and makes it that you have to balance a ton more things if you have to buff the weak ones (and some aren't that weak in the first place), instead of nerfing the one strong one to the levels of the others.
Here's a video illustrating this concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6oMY4U0Yw
Items and champions are different concepts. Not to mention this seasons jungle is the hardest in the history of Lol. Making it even harder makes many jungle options lower.
Pretty sure everyone is tired of Lee, Jarv, and Rek Sai. Nerfing items won't fix this but increases the gap of tier 1 junglers and tier 2. Simply because the tier 1 champions are stronger in the jungle and don't need as much help from items.
Chessburger1 votesActually anything that can gank whenever they choose to and are AA + slight burst oriented to profit heavily from warrior enchantment is on top in this jungle/meta. Lee, jarv, vi, rek are just the most versatile and the best of those types of champions.
ZephyrDrake1 votesBecause buffing all other items to match the power level of one particularly OP item is not a good design philosophy. It just leads to a power creep as newer, more powerfull items (or champs) get released, and makes it that you have to balance a ton more things if you have to buff the weak ones (and some aren't that weak in the first place), instead of nerfing the one strong one to the levels of the others.
Here's a video illustrating this concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6oMY4U0Yw
yeah, it's better to nerf strong items to the level of mediocrity of the others. I mean if all the enhancements/jungle items suck then they are all well balanced right?
X Frady4 votesIll probably get downvoted to death here, but, cant just Rito remove the jungle items altogether? I feel they added a huge mess instead of solving the jungle problems before them.
Linna Excel1 votesHaving to jungle without an item is an interesting concept. However there is the problem that jungle items provide gold and you don't want your laners getting CS and stealing all of your jungle farm.
If they added a jungling line of masteries, it could probably be done.
Joushi3 votesBecause that is the exact reason that makes power creep get out of hand.
TotalJerk3 votesIf anything power is seeping. Riot keeps hitting champions in their numbers. All the current "OP" champions are just the ones who either have raw utility that can't be hit in the numbers (
) or only got there because everything else was nerfed (
)
ForgiveColour2 votestrailblazer was once op and we all know how that went
logique4 votestrailblazer was once op and we all know how that went
Except it wasn't, one champion ww was strong with it.
ForgiveColour1 votesspoken like a true silver player with a great knowledge of the game
qetzel2 votesEven if they are wrong, their rank has nothing to do with it. Why not explain rather than just dismiss?
Celeste Benal2 votesWW used Skirmisher's Blade with Devourer enchantment to do massive amounts of True damage on every hit. So Riot nerfed both devourer and WW.
Now, despite his massive sustain, WW falls off hard after his first back because he just doesn't do any damage until he gets his enchantment.
Most players switched to Skirmishers with Warrior Enchantment. Riot nerfs Smite range vs champs, and reduces Warrior AD from 45 to 40. RIP jungle.
Logique mistakenly said Trailblazer and Warwick in the same sentence. WW has never used Trailblazer because of his innate sustain.
SmokingPuffin2 votesRiot is thinking about buffs for the other items. Rebalancing is a big project though. Nerfing the obviously strong one is a quick and easy bandaid for now.
For all the complaining about how hard jungling is this season, junglers are still having outsized impact on the game. Riot is going to have to be very careful when buffing stuff to not end up right back in the season 4 trap.
Dengeden1 votesYou make a good point but once the jungle item was completed, sustain usually wasn't an issue.
Celeste Benal1 votesIt is outperforming its counterparts because it is the only viable enchant left. Time to nerf it so that all enchants are equally worthless.
KaisadiIIa1 votesThey took away 5 AD. That's not a nerf. That's a punch in the face of diversity.
Chaotic Reks1 votesthe 45 AD isn't a problem. its that damn 10% armor pen... seriously, tanks are becoming obsolete, so lets give AD fighters and assassins more ways to delete them