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The most important parts of the Darius rework that nobody seems to be paying attention to.

hashinshin··26 votes·7,057 views

  1. His attack speed got butchered. This is something nobody is paying attention to. It will take over 6 seconds of autoing to get to 5 bleeds now, at level 18.

  2. His Q does 50% with the hilt now, instead of 66%, and doesn't apply a bleed. And it has a 0.75 second cast time where it doesn't go on cooldown (increasing it's CD by 0.75 seconds unreducable by CDR.) ANY gap closer immediately invalidates his Q.

  3. His bleed now does physical damage (which is always less useful than magical, even with 25% penetration) and got it's base damage reduced considerably. And it doesn't give movespeed anymore.

  4. His W went to 140% damage from 200%. No longer gets reduced cooldown from bleeds. No longer slows attack speed. Now MUST be maxed to reduce it's CD, even if against a ranged opponent. Try to fight Jax or Irelia come mid game. Watch as they lol in your face as they just use their Q when you try to Q, and sit in your face murdering you. Can't even spam W in team fights anymore on bruisers, gets 1 W every 5 seconds and that's if you max it. Less damage, longer cooldown, less effect. Also only slows 1 second now.

  5. His E no longer pulls targets that escape the range. Whether or not that was a bug it was still a MAJOR power in his kit that nobody could escape the pull. Now any movement ability will escape his pull. This will reduce his win rate by likely 2% off this change alone. How many games were won duye to this bug?

  6. His passive damage only lasts for 5 seconds. Not for the duration of 5 bleeds. GG ever trying to fight tanks with Darius, it'll be pretty dang embarrassing. I'm just imagining Mundo going "Darius stop... Darius... this is sad man... sto..."

BUT AT LEAST HIS ULT DOES MORE DAMAGE. Cause that's what everyone wanted, a shitty Darius with a stronger ultimate. Fun for you AND your opposing team.

34 Comments

Vistha Kai9 votes

That's a recurring theme with those juggernaut changes.

A champion gets a gimmick and pays for it with the rest of the kit, Kassadin style.

Du Ma Mi9 votes

I just played him on the PBE and figured out why they nerfed him so hard.

  1. His Q speed probably got nerfed because while it's "Loading Up", you can continue moving. So if you're chasing down a Caitlyn, you can actually get your Q off without stopping for a brief moment (and I do mean brief). I think the .75 might be a tad to long from experience, but Riot will do what Riot will do. Everyone gets nerfed sometimes.

  2. If his handle for Q still applied bleed, he could get his bloodrage, then flash into the middle of the other 4 people and Q, then BAM: They all have max hemorrhage. That would be OP as all shit. (And before anyone tries to say otherwise, he can gain his bloodrage from anything that applies hemorrhage)

  3. His passive got nerfed because of the addition of Bloodrage. It helps him deal a lot of damage, and it really does make sense... Sigh I guess there're no more level 1 Passive+ignite cheese FB's anymore.

  4. Final Point: He may have gotten nerfed a bit around the board, but that's all due to one main thing; ITEMIZATION. With the new Titanic Hydra active and Darius' W, I built almost full tank (5100+ health), and still almost 1-shotted their adc. That combined with the Dead Man's Plate passive, makes me cringe to think of how much damage a near full tank darius could pull off in one auto if his W was still 200%, and he got his Bloodrage on (Heavy AD steroid). With the new items, and (like I mentioned) with a near full tank build, I was dealing close to 400 AD on hit, and this was without my W, without my Bloodrage, without the passive of DMP, and without the active of Titanic. That's scary, especially with the new ulti buff.

I hope that helped shed some light on why he got nerfed.

Cowgirl Ed2 votes

{quoted}

I just played him on the PBE and figured out why they nerfed him so hard.

Is Dead Man's Plate really that good? I can see it used on a lot of fighters

Du Ma Mi2 votes

{quoted}

Is Dead Man's Plate really that good? I can see it used on a lot of fighters

It isn't like a new God-Tier Item, like Luden's on release, but it really does help. It gives a MS buff while running around, up to a cap of (Unknown). When you reach 100 stacks, your MS buff stays where it's at (still an MS buff, just no more gain), and it discharges the stacks for a bit of damage (I don't know if it ever specifically says anywhere). The things is: with Titanic Hydra (Which is like ravenous Hydra, but it's active - on a 20 second cooldown - deals 10% of your health as bonus damage), and his W on, along with the passive of DMP, you effectively have an 800 Damage dealing auto attack, in a small radius (Due to the "Crecent" passive of Titanic), on a 5000+ HP champion.

terkmc2 votes

Pretty sure his normal Q already doesnt stop movement Passive physical nerfed damage but synergy with Black Cleaver is godly

Du Ma Mi2 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure his normal Q already doesnt stop movement Passive physical nerfed damage but synergy with Black Cleaver is godly

Yeah, as I typed that I thought "Wait... maybe it didn't stop it". I just figured, even if it wasn't entirely correct, a point is a point, might make some people listen to the other arguments more.

hashinshin5 votes

In case anyone put 2+2 together in their head: Yes. They nerfed all his damage for the ability of him to reach 5 bleed stacks. Then they nerfed his ability to get bleed stacks hard, nerfed his slows, nerfed his move speed. And before you say "BUT HE'S SO TANKY OH MY GOD BASE STATS" has any champion in all of LoL ever tanked for long? The only ones that come to mind are Malphite and Maokai. Do you see +30% armor and a 10% health sheild on Darius? 20% damage reduction? No?

lolipopevelynn5 votes

  1. not relevant. darius always got his stacks from poking with Q and the AA reset on his W. i more pissed off that the handle of his Q no longer grants a stack, and so should you tbh. no one stacks darius passive just by AAing 5 straight times.

  2. the nerf to his hilt is not important. again you are focusing on the wrong thing and should instead look at the nerf to his outterswing, but it has yet to be determined if the AD ratio buff to it makes up for it. either way, he does get a good chunk heal which makes up for both nerfs.

  3. just plain false. his passive is actually STRONGER now. you are forgetting that his E still has the armor shread which stacks with cleaver. also cleaver gives 30% shread, not 25%.

  4. what you are not getting is that most of these nerfs need to happen because of darius new bloodrage passive which gives him a MASSIVE 200AD steroid. his W cant remain at 200% dude, it just cant.

  5. who cares, his E now slows once pulled in and his W now a 90% slow aswell. this means that once he pulls you in you are not getting away from his combos unless you have your escape up.

  6. his blood rage refreshes its duration every time he kills a enemy or reaches 5 stacks... which means he can stay in it as long as he is hitting someone or killing someone with ult...

what is a 200AD steroid PASSIVE. hmm, so bad so bad.

darius will actually be more of a terror in lane than he is currently ON TOP of actually scaling into late game now. his passive is broken dude, no other melee is going to touch this guy in lane, and he is actually better against ranged champs now if he can land his E. anything he touches WILL DIE.

TL;DR, darius has the highest AD steroid in the game + no mana true damage ults. his passive now scales into late game because it can now penetrate and he has MASSIVE slows.

updated darius > old darius. only thing ima miss is the move speed.

Vistha Kai2 votes

I don't think anybody, but the person responsible for this AD steroid really fucking cares about it.

It's not needed. It's not welcomed.

Just look what happened to Ryze when they gave him pretty exactly the same mechanic. He's at ~42% winrate.

lolipopevelynn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:08:09.182+0000)

I don't think anybody, but the person responsible for this AD steroid really fucking cares about it.

It's not needed. It's not welcomed.

Just look what happened to Ryze when they gave him pretty exactly the same mechanic. He's at ~42% winrate.

you guys are underestimating the worth of 200 AD (TWO HUNDRED ATTACK DAMAGE) so hard that its comical. thats a IE+BT+tiamat worth of AD from just his passive

Vistha Kai2 votes

AD buff which he will not always have - or ever in case of laning.

lolipopevelynn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:14:34.582+0000)

AD buff which he will not always have - or ever in case of laning.

lol?

he gets passive stacks the EXACT SAME WAY as he currently does on live, except it will be easier to stick to people because of his two massive slows. the hell are you even talking about? do you not know how to pull or something? the delay on his pull is actually faster now btw.

there is litterally nothing stopping him from getting stacks like he always has. the only potentially problem i can see is the delay in his Q. his Q is no longer a click and forget spell.

Vistha Kai1 votes

His whole kit is now completely invalidated by any mobility, which means he will never or rarely max passive stacks unless dunks somebody in a teamfight.

I just checked what's the exact value of the slow on Apprehend.

It looks like Statikk wants Darius' Q to be completely unusable without Apprehend. That's a great design, hands down.

lolipopevelynn4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:26:30.959+0000)

His whole kit is now completely invalidated by any mobility, which means he will never or rarely max passive stacks unless dunks somebody in a teamfight.

I just checked what's the exact value of the slow on Apprehend.

It looks like Statikk wants Darius' Q to be completely unusable without Apprehend. That's a great design, hands down.

his old kit was invalidated by any mobility aswell. seriously, what are you even complaining about? old darius and new darius have the exact same problems vs mobile champions as they always have. old darius cant catch nid, new darius cant catch nid. old darius cant catch ahri/lb, new darius cant catch ahri/lb.

i mean he is the same immobile champ he has always been... what makes darius stick to mobile champs like ahri/nid/ekko in his old kit that is not in his new kit? if anything his new kit helps him stick to mobile champs better because of the massive slows he got.

inb4 "his 5% move speed buff helped catch dem nids doe!". dont make me call u names.

Vistha Kai3 votes

Wrong.

Live Decimate is instant and Apprehend pulls despite the use of mobility spells, additionally every bleeding enemy gives him movement speed buff.

PBE Decimate has a delay of 0.75 seconds, additionally half of the damage and Hemorrhage is ignored if the target is at half the range or close. Apprehend is completely useless aganist champions with mobility spells.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:41:50.342+0000)

Wrong.

Live Decimate is instant and Apprehend pulls despite the use of mobility spells, additionally every bleeding enemy gives him movement speed buff.

PBE Decimate has a delay of 0.75 seconds, additionally half of the damage and Hemorrhage is ignored if the target is at half the range or close. Apprehend is completely useless aganist champions with mobility spells.

i dont think you played a single game as darius.

he will still pull in champs that use a escape like flash at the start of the spell cast. he wont be able to pull them in while they are in the MIDDLE of it tho.

this is why apprehends delay is now faster. you can catch people at the start of there flash for example, but not in the middle of it.

no one even made full use of that bug anyway. you are lying out of your ass if you think this bug actually made darius better.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Flash is instant, Arcane Shift will ignore Apprehend, other dash in the game is much faster than 0.25 second.

And yes, you are right. Apparently I've never played Darius in my life.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:48:05.896+0000)

Flash is instant, Arcane Shift will ignore Apprehend, other dash in the game is much faster than 0.25 second.

And yes, you are right. Apparently I've never played Darius in my life.

i know you havent since you apparently dont know how apprehend interacts with flash and shift. saying shift ignores apprehend only proves that without any shadow of a doubt.

Vistha Kai3 votes

Don't mind the fact I have 40 ranked games and 54% winrate with Darius and also played him in countless normal games.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T23:56:24.134+0000)

Don't mind the fact I have 40 ranked games and 54% winrate with Darius and also played him in countless normal games.

40 rank games with one champ 8 months into a season.

kk.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Eight months into a season you have whole 10 games more than me and... 43% winrate.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZ1lAp8j,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T07:10:16.193+0000)

Eight months into a season you have whole 10 games more than me and... 43% winrate.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Idk who you are talking about. But for me the average champ takes me 2-3 games to learn. And 10 games to figure out the best build and level up order for me. And I do not have a 43% win rate, so I'm not sure you are even talking to me. I have all the champs unlocked through IP with a ton of experience in this game, I just have given up on ranked for the most part. I play a max of 2 ranked games a day now because the player base is just so bad there.

CatAndBookTails1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMxcCPFw--g

Vistha Kai1 votes

{quoted}

Idk who you are talking about. But for me the average champ takes me 2-3 games to learn. And 10 games to figure out the best build and level up order for me. And I do not have a 43% win rate, so I'm not sure you are even talking to me. I have all the champs unlocked through IP with a ton of experience in this game, I just have given up on ranked for the most part. I play a max of 2 ranked games a day now because the player base is just so bad there.

I was responding to Hallows Evelynn.

Narasimha1 votes

Yeah, just to jump in, that's kind of unimpressive. Even if you've played double as many normal games, thats still only 120 games with Darius in total. Not something to really brag about.

Jefftiffy2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, just to jump in, that's kind of unimpressive. Even if you've played double as many normal games, thats still only 120 games with Darius in total. Not something to really brag about.

It's probably a hell of a lot more than you have. And quite honestly I like Darius as a champ right now. Changing him making him have about 50% of his current strength unless he executes someone with his ult to even hit his current 100% is kind of bull. It's throwing so much skill cap and counter play into his kit that darius may even dip below a 40% win rate. Because as it is right now Apprehend pulls anyone caught in it period. The way it will work after the bug fix will make it so it will not pull anyone caught in it that breaks out. Less deception to both sides, but sadly its one of the few things keeping Darius viable currently even with "all of his mobility".

I have been playing this game for 3 years. And this is by far the biggest group of shitty reworks all in one patch. Not a single one addresses their issues. In fact every single one of them creates more problems and is going to knock 4 champs out of the meta. (maybe not Skarner because I don't play him at all and can't really say much)

Vistha Kai1 votes

So you are saying that after playing 3 seasons you need more than 120 games to learn how to play a champion?

Because I, after also playing this game for three season, need a maximum of 5 games. Maybe 10 for high skillcap champions.

Narasimha1 votes

Then clearly you must be some kind of genius. Because after playing for 4 seasons, I still find myself improving on champions I've played since then. Otherwise, I'd be Diamond by now. But I'm not, not even close. Which means I have a lot to improve on.

DarthSpectrum5 votes

Well, if you focus solely on the nerfs, of course it can seem that Darius is on the wrong side of the axe.

Darius's bleed's base damage may have been reduced, but their scaling went up just as considerably to compensate. With the instant 5 bleed stacks and 200 bonus AD from his passive, Darius will actually do a lot more damage with his bleed now. Not to mention, since it has been converted to physical damage, it will now benefit from his 30% armor shred. Sure, magic damage might be stronger early game, but eventually, they will probably get MR.

Decimate's hilt damage may have been nerfed to around 76% of its former value, but its blade damage and scaling over all got buffed considerably. The extra damage on maxed out Q actually offsets the damage lost from the hilt damage reduction. Additionally, Darius gets a 10% missing health heal per enemy hit with the blade part, up to a 30% missing health heal. For a champion who didn't have any sustain at all without LF items, this is great.

His W scaling got nerfed, but this is understandable granted that 200% total attack damage with his new passive 200 AD will be insane. He will literally be doing ultimate level damage on one ability. This ability is again stronger than before except in the case against a 4+ stack hemorrhage target. However, Darius can mitigate nerf by building CDR.

Apprehend finally got bugged fixed. Its old mechanics was OP. Not only did it pull enemies immediately in the cone, the cone is actually much bigger than the animation appears.

However, I do agree with you that Darius has been hit pretty hard with the Juggernaut rework. He lost his speed buff and he will have a much harder time pulling enemies now. Despite the massive damage increase for Darius, he will have even a harder time now getting on top of his targets.

LankPants4 votes

His bleed now does physical damage (which is always less useful than magical, even with 25% penetration) and got it's base damage reduced considerably. And it doesn't give movespeed anymore.

There's a little bit of nuance on his E dealing phys damage rather than magic. Once you auto someone once with a black cleaver it will tick on them from the bleed and end up applying max stacks.

Not saying it's 100% better or anything, but it's definitely a nice synergy.

IcyPepper1 votes

How many games were won duye to this bug?

Well, um, I don't see it as a negative to fix the bug. However, he should have been compensated elsewhere.

gaby1best1 votes

That's the point, he got nerfed. But his passive dealing physical damage is actually a good thing for the sole purpose of item 3071

His E no longer pulls targets that escape the range. Whether or not that was a bug it was still a MAJOR power in his kit that nobody could escape the pull. Now any movement ability will escape his pull. This will reduce his win rate by likely 2% off this change alone. How many games were won duye to this bug?

That was a bug, how can you say it should've been kept? The casting time got lowered to 'compensate' though. e

BUT AT LEAST HIS ULT DOES MORE DAMAGE

What? Base damage got nerfed mate.

Stop acting like Darius was all balanced and didn't deserve a nerf. His laning(which is currently lane monster bully, i'mma zone the shit out of you just because I'm here) got nerfed(he got a heal on Q though) and his teamfighting got buffed. It's a good trade in my opinion, considering how overwhelming current Darius is.

AthenasVendetta1 votes
  1. "His attack speed got butchered. This is something nobody is paying attention to. It will take over 6 seconds of autoing to get to 5 bleeds now, at level 18."

His attack speed has never really been fast. 3% per level reduction isn't going to hurt him that much.

  1. "His Q does 50% with the hilt now, instead of 66%, and doesn't apply a bleed. And it has a 0.75 second cast time where it doesn't go on cooldown (increasing it's CD by 0.75 seconds unreducable by CDR.) ANY gap closer immediately invalidates his Q."

It would be really interesting to have the hilt(handle) slow or cripple base on the proximity to the center. The Cast time yes this will probably change.... if not you are going to have to predict movement a second in advance.

  1. "His bleed now does physical damage (which is always less useful than magical, even with 25% penetration) and got it's base damage reduced considerably. And it doesn't give movespeed anymore."

Remember this is the pbe... To move it to true damage would just be broken. Now they might have to tweak the numbers a little bit but it shouldn't effect you too much.

  1. "His W went to 140% damage from 200%. No longer gets reduced cooldown from bleeds. No longer slows attack speed. Now MUST be maxed to reduce it's CD, even if against a ranged opponent. Try to fight Jax or Irelia come mid game. Watch as they lol in your face as they just use their Q when you try to Q, and sit in your face murdering you. Can't even spam W in team fights anymore on bruisers, gets 1 W every 5 seconds and that's if you max it. Less damage, longer cooldown, less effect. Also only slows 1 second now."

He is more of a team fighter and always has been sure it was fun to build him crit king darius... but the change to w actually is for the better... if he apprehends anyone and applies a 90% slow the individual more than likely will die.

  1. "His E no longer pulls targets that escape the range. Whether or not that was a bug it was still a MAJOR power in his kit that nobody could escape the pull. Now any movement ability will escape his pull. This will reduce his win rate by likely 2% off this change alone. How many games were won duye to this bug?"

I doubt this change will effect much. the cast time was reduced and it might be reduced even more.

6." His passive damage only lasts for 5 seconds. Not for the duration of 5 bleeds. GG ever trying to fight tanks with Darius, it'll be pretty dang embarrassing. I'm just imagining Mundo going "Darius stop... Darius... this is sad man..."

Five seconds to repeatedly press r and kill low targets is a lot of time.

BUT AT LEAST HIS ULT DOES MORE DAMAGE. Cause that's what everyone wanted, a shitty Darius with a stronger ultimate. Fun for you AND your opposing team.

Theorchero1 votes

Then you realize he's just as sticky because his W is now a 90% fucking slow.

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