Electrocute fundamentally breaks this game.

Nausicäa ·Aug 2, 2018·131 votes·29,108 views

This Rune should honestly be straight up deleted because it is in large part responsible for the insanely high burst and low TTK in the game currently.

It allows champions who otherwise would not and should not have lethal damage in a single rotation to have kill potential and has unhealthy synergy with certain poke combos like allowing him to drop 70% of your health bar with a SINGLE harass combo even pre 6 before items.

It allows champions like who would otherwise not have lethal damage to pretty much 100-0 you pre 6 if she lands a single E or otherwise kill you without landing a single ability. The combination of Electrocute and is just idiotic as it literally takes half a squishy champions health bar.

Comparing **Thunderlords **10 - 180 (based on level) + (30% bonus AD) + (10% AP) magic damage to Electrocute 50 - 220 (based on level) (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) Attack damage Ability power Adaptive damage. Its utterly stupid how much damage this Rune gained all while MR/Armor was removed from champions making them squishier.

168 Comments

Fisher No ChainsAug 2, 201834 votes

Even fucking Kassadin went from a mid-late game champ to an early game one when people realized that Electrocute turns him into a lane bully lmfao

I’m a LB main so I shouldn’t complain about free elo, but Electrocute is just bullshit as it is now. Having a fifth damaging spell that costs nothing is INSANE and needs to be tuned down asap, since imo it’s one of the biggest problems with assassins right now.

Anu3isIIAug 2, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-02T08:32:33.578+0000)

Even fucking Kassadin went from a mid-late game champ to an early game one when people realized that Electrocute turns him into a lane bully lmfao

It depends on the match-up. I also consider his last buffs the things that made his burst way too high, a bonus of 30% AP Ratio for one combo rotation is a big deal for an Assassin.

I’m a LB main so I shouldn’t complain about free elo, but Electrocute is just bullshit as it is now. Having a fifth damaging spell that costs nothing is INSANE and needs to be tuned down asap, since imo it’s one of the biggest problems with assassins right now.

Agreed. As LB, I can W-Q-R AA and leave squishies at 25% Health, maybe even kill them if I add an Ignite or Chain. I think both Electrocute and Ignite deal way too much Damage, to the point where Assassins don't need to land their combos.

My Waifu VanillaAug 2, 20189 votes

Wait what? Kassadin was a bigger lane bully earlier when he took aery+scorch pre-nerf and Q'd you to death while getting his shield. Kassadin physically cannot proc electrocute pre-6 on a ranged champion. It doesn't happen. He is playing without a keystone. The keystone IS arguably better than Aery/Comet post-6 but you can't be a "lane bully" while still being next to useless pre-6. Those are mutually exclusive ideas.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 2, 20185 votes

^ This

The boards have gotten outright insane with some of their claims lately. "Electrocute makes Kassadin a lanebully", "Adding an indicator to Darius's ult would buff him too much", and so many other absolutely, objectively false statements.

TeCoolMageAug 3, 20183 votes

Not lately, it has been like this for a very long time. Even the reasonable conclusions have been backed up by really wrong claims, but they agree so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

RiotRiot MapleNectarAug 3, 201827 votes

Dropping this in here since I did in another thread but you may not see it. This is a current low scope direction we're testing for some damage runes. These will be on the PBE tomorrow:

Electrocute Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20

Cheap Shot Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40

Sudden Impact Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6

Celerity Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10%

Scorch Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10

F3EDfromDesIr3Aug 3, 20181 votes

[deleted]

RiotRiot MapleNectarAug 3, 201819 votes

God damn, I didn't copy the line that I had at the bottom of the other post;

Notably, there's some runes like Aery and Comet not included in this list which are cited pretty frequently, they likely also need more work in terms of gameplay that isn't just simply some number shifts (we're still talking about them though)

EvilMoustacheManAug 3, 20185 votes

I know this probably has been already said, but it would be fantastic if we can have armor and mr added to the stats based on the combination of rune paths taken currently like with adaptive damage, attack speed, and health.

IfnethAug 3, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2018-08-03T02:38:47.509+0000)

Dropping this in here since I did in another thread but you may not see it. This is a current low scope direction we're testing for some damage runes. These will be on the PBE tomorrow:

Electrocute Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20

Cheap Shot Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40

Sudden Impact Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6

Celerity Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10%

Scorch Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10

Taking 25 total early damage off Electrocute but cutting its cooldown in half makes it stronger overall, since proccing it twice would deal more damage than live Electrocute can over time.

Champions like Zed, LeBlanc, or Zoe could become more oppressive and meta-driving afterward, since they would trade a slightly weaker all-in for much better combo harass, which they could use to force potions, recalls, or risky plays from their opponents.

It needs to lose more damage or less cooldown, or both. Here’s an example.

Damage: 50-220 (+50% bAD) (+30% AP) >>> 25-160 (+30% bAD) (+20% AP) Cooldown: 50s-25s >>> 40-30s

RyusaetherAug 4, 20181 votes

I see people complaining a lot about the cooldown being halved hence the dmg will be more. But weren't you all concerned about FRONTLOADED DAMAGE? Literally everyone and their mothers were crying about that. Now the frontloaded burst is gone, and you probably have another chance to make a mistake. If you do it again YOU DESERVE TO DIE. This change is good. Maybe a bit more CD, but just a little, like 30-35.

And other damage oriented domination and sorcery runes are getting nerfed, so the major offenders everyone is talking about (all blink/stealth/dash users) will definitely get even less damage the first time they punish you because they'll have less lethality/mpen from sudden impact and less dmg from scorch.

The Bad TouchAug 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I see people complaining a lot about the cooldown being halved hence the dmg will be more. But weren't you all concerned about FRONTLOADED DAMAGE? Literally everyone and their mothers were crying about that. Now the frontloaded burst is gone, and you probably have another chance to make a mistake. If you do it again YOU DESERVE TO DIE. This change is good. Maybe a bit more CD, but just a little, like 30-35.

And other damage oriented domination and sorcery runes are getting nerfed, so the major offenders everyone is talking about (all blink/stealth/dash users) will definitely get even less damage the first time they punish you because they'll have less lethality/mpen from sudden impact and less dmg from scorch.

Except being at 70% hp hp because they procced it 25 seconds ago is effectively the same frontload as being at 80% because they traded without it 25 seconds ago. Either way being at 80% and being bursted hard or being at 70% and being bursted slightly less hard is the same damn thing.

The only thing that changes is champs like Leblanc with ranged autos get MUCH stronger in lane as they will be procing it every 20-25 seconds.

RyusaetherAug 16, 20181 votes

Yeah in prolonged trade it's the same or maybe worse, but you don't get bursted as hard if you get hit once by the full combo, so they can't all in you that easily the first time you make a mistake.

If you nale that mistake twice, then you probably deserve to die.

Nausicäa Aug 3, 20188 votes

Thanks man, can we have have our starting Armor and MR back now too? At least increase everyones base armor and mr by like 5 or something.

Also revert ignite buff thanks.

Emerald FangAug 3, 20183 votes

I might be mistaken here but isn't that a very generous cooldown reduction early-game for the small damage reduction? It does reduce TTK early game but it's up twice as often which means sure, damage per combo is reduced but champions can use electrocute combos a lot more often, which grants pretty huge lane pressure IMO. Then again I may not be thinking of something.

Leto GTAug 3, 20182 votes

Basically you're buffing electrocute. I don't understand...

Over the same period of time it turns into a 60-360 (+80% AD / + 50% AP) on 50 sec. Not to mention level up and stats increase.

Ppl want the damage to be reduced or a complete deletation of this runes because of the amount of damage is and how easy it is to trigger especially for ranged champions while adding lethality damage on champions that are already lethal through their kit.

Do you think it's hard to trigger and rewards a certain type of gameplay? It does not, the design of the rune makes it an additional damage for just playing their champion - using 1 ability. Please work on the trigger conditions so that they reflect an actual gameplay and give some counterplay.

A few examples :

LB : aa -> W -> aa. Quinn : aa -> e/q -> aa. Annie : aa -> q -> aa Heimer : aa -> turret shot -> aa

Several hypothetical possibilities :

Not trigger by summoners and/or auto-attacks - to make it so that they have to land their combo.
Damage is proc (=like a sheen) on the next basic attack to force them to commit.

Not only electrocute is easy to trigger.

Conqueror : proc on minions. Shouldnt it help bruisers vs tanks in extended trades? Grasp : Same thing. stacks on minions.

**Stacks should not proc on minions at all. **

Aery : Proc on auto-attacks. It should proc on spells not on auto-attacks nor anything else like scortch or corruption potion. I'm not 100% sure but I think it procs (both damage and shield) on orianna W if someone runs into the slowing/speed zone.

Scortch : Rewarding ppl with damage for hitting a spell...

Runes lacks counterplay because they're too easy to trigger and don't reward commitement nor thoughts in most cases. The only runes that I can think off that needs some thoughts are "Unsealed spellbook" and "Predator".

Runes right now are overbearing. Either rework them to make them harder to trigger and/or nerfs their damage.

Thank you,

JmmanAug 3, 20183 votes

Would it be possible to Let them dictate style of play rather than just damage. Heck look at after shock. Why does it have damage on it? I fill like everything is damage happy.

Example of better runes

Electrocute. Your 3rd spell / attack you hit become a small AoE of lighthing. (notice damage on the champ did not increase be might hit other targets.

After shock changed to proc a small slow instead of damage.

Aery is just for shield and slows (increases the slow amount)

Comet lowers MR and AC of targets hit. (might have to play with range and speed)

Phase rush is ok because it adds game play not mindless damage.

Changing some damage to true or the reverse damage (AD because AP and AP become AD This might be a better option then "true damage")

See with old runes you can Micro your way into different play styles. The new runes were made for Macro play and too MMORPGish. These would be great as AA from EQ or talents from WoW because they effect the over all performance of the Boss fight or raid. The old way would like you customize for the match your going against. Example. AC for zed mid. Run Quince / MR against mage bot. AC / lifesteal for jungle. You can change it for the style of the lane and match up. Now with the new ones its all the same and you might change one rune because its might be better. This is compared to changing your whole page and all your stats.

If you look at some of the new runes. You have to give someone 100 resist and level 1 or 2 just for fill tankish….. does that not seem a little crazy?

Then look at how easy it is for mobile champions to proc or use all the them. So what advance does an mobile mage have? I mean you have to crazy buff Lee Sin because he go out champ creeped by Graves Kayn Taliyah Kindred Camille etc. Its almost like dashing / mobility / cheesing is now a must for jungle. I'm not saying these champs are op or not. But look at the kits/damage/etc and think what if this champ was in the game 2 or 3 seasons ago as they are now. Would they be totally busted. If you say well times have changed. My response would be well most of the champs you could and they would be fine so maybe newer champs went "too far".

I don't know. Before I could get about the same ap starting out without all the effect / proc damage from the new runes. Why don't you just leave the increase stats ones and removed the straight damage ones. Its ok to increase AP/AD from run speed because that is a play style. Its ok to do a little extra with poke, but why add two ways for the same tree. Only one would be ok but two is over the top. that is a play style. Its not ok to add extra damage into a tank rune because it seems cool. Its not ok to add ALOT of extra damage because your cool and look flashes ( looking at Electrocute). I mean you can dodge comet so it isn't too bad. Extra true damage because they are slowed.... just extra damage for playing your class

Now we are nerfing champs mana and spells because of the extra damage from runes. You are kill the identity and play style of champs because of your dumb runes. Look at fiddle. 70 mana for 60 damage. wow. That nerf will kill him in the jungle and mid. Instead maybe you should look at aery and scorch procing to do the same damage as the spell. NOPE nerf fiddle. So now once you "fix" the runes. What are you going to do about the champs you killed because of the runes. See fiddle was up for buffs / viewed as weak until you gave him a way to proc aery/comet, scorch, cheap shot (with item 3116 then burning with item 3151 . So its it the spell or the 4 procs I can have that will do more damage than the spell? But hey there hasn't been any damage creep. I can double the damage of the spell (not counting AP either) when I use to poke. Oh you have a diving comp. Let me get the rune that gives me 100 to resists and then blows you up for damage at lvl 1. Yep fear is broke. Well sure because its a one shot meta. Any cc is broken because it means death. Unless you can proc your op rune that give you 100 resists for a 75% damage reduce starting at lvl 1. You are making an op rune to counter an op rune then you have to make an op item to counter that op things and we get into the mess we are at now.

haywire androidAug 3, 20182 votes

Wont this buff some of the worst offenders like Zed? Post lvl 6 Zed has enough damge to 100-0 without Electrocute and this will just make him more opressive in lane pre 6.

ModWulf HelhammerAug 2, 201817 votes

You’re forgetting the ease of which you could proc thunderlord’s (ticking damage like GP ult or Morg pool insta procced it) and it’s much lower cool down.

You can’t just look at numbers and call it a day. You have to take in the whole context.

The Bad TouchAug 2, 201843 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-02T07:10:58.900+0000)

You’re forgetting the ease of which you could proc thunderlord’s (ticking damage like GP ult or Morg pool insta procced it) and it’s much lower cool down.

You can’t just look at numbers and call it a day. You have to take in the whole context.

In what world is it hard to land 2 abilities and an auto attack?

HP CrookshanksAug 2, 20186 votes

I think they are hard to land with Zed because he procs it with Q+ignite. I think Zed 's second Q from his shadow, ignite etc shouldn't be counted as another ability for electrocute.

Crescent DuskAug 2, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-02T07:44:54.477+0000)

I think they are hard to land with because he procs it with Q+ignite. I think 's second Q from his shadow, ignite etc shouldn't be counted as another ability for electrocute.

Doesn't even matter because even pre-6 if Zed lands WEQ that's enough damage for him to swap with his shadow to all in trigger his passive via auto and ignite you to death.

Zed's damage is simply retarded. Especially mid-late game, he makes Talon look like a pansy.

Warlord RhinarkAug 2, 201839 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-02T07:10:58.900+0000)

You’re forgetting the ease of which you could proc thunderlord’s (ticking damage like GP ult or Morg pool insta procced it) and it’s much lower cool down.

You can’t just look at numbers and call it a day. You have to take in the whole context.

Thunderlord's Decree dealt way less damage by comparison though.

Electrocute deals 50 - 220 (based on level) (+50% Bonus AD) (+30% Bonus AP) Adaptive.

Thunderlord's Decree dealt 10 - 180 (based on level) (+30% Bonus AD) (+10% Bonus AP) Magic damage.

Honestly, even if it is easier to proc and it does have a lower cooldown, it does lower burst damage by a large margin so I'm all for it.

It's kinda funny you're talking about not taking in the whole context.

GorantharonAug 2, 20187 votes

For any champion who isn't relying on DOT damage, it's exactly the same as TL, as they used to three hit then and they need to three hit now.

There is absolutely no meaningful or noticeable difference for Zed especially. (Edit: For people who can't read in context: I'm talking about triggering the effect here, see sentence 1.)

GabresolAug 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

For any champion who isn't relying on DOT damage, it's exactly the same as TL, as they used to three hit then and they need to three hit now. There is absolutely no meaningful or noticeable difference for Zed especially.

besides thunderlords having 40 more base damage starting level 1 and better stat scaling

GorantharonAug 2, 20187 votes

What are you talking about?

From the Wiki:

Thunderlords: At 3 stacks, the target is dealt 10 - 180 (based on level) + (30% bonus AD) + (10% AP) magic damage in an area around

Electricute: 50 - 220 (based on level) (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) Attack damageAbility power Adaptive damage.

Thunderlords has LESS damage all around.

And I was talking about the trigger conditions, which make no difference for Zed.

My Waifu VanillaAug 2, 20181 votes

It's still on a much longer cooldown. Zed could TLD you every single wave technically speaking. Electrocute will for the majority of the game be AT LEAST every other wave since it starts on a 50 second cooldown while still having the condition of hitting 3 times.

GorantharonAug 2, 20182 votes

Not wrong, but TL starts with half the CD of EC, while EC does almost four times the damage at level one.

A TL user has to hit you pretty consistently to keep even with EC in early trades, if that's even possible, because a single EC procc is a huge deal at level one, much more than TL was at the end.

Z3SleeperAug 2, 20182 votes

It also dealt overall less DPS. The cooldown was only half of Electrocute's, but Electrocute does more than double Thunderlord's damage especially early on. (easy math, 10 + 10 < 50)

Nausicäa Aug 2, 201814 votes

Too bad Electrocute is just as easy to proc on literally 90% of its current users, ie most assassins and burst characters so ya the increased damage is absolutely the only relevant thing to look at.

You're talking like its actually somehow hard to proc when its trivially easy on anyone with a gap closer. The only champions its harder to proc on is poke mages and thats about it. Its not like poke mage/utility mages are currently dominating the game right now either.

HeimerLmaoAug 2, 20184 votes

Actually, it's even easier on some champs. For example Zed: both of his Qs and count towards the proc and ignite does too, making it even easier to proc the damage.

SalsonAug 2, 201816 votes

Well yeah, but it does support Meddler's front loaded damage theory.

Having decent damage on a short cooldown still allows you to back off after a bad trade or two, while insane damage on a long cooldown kills you outright and showballs the lane to kingdom come.

Overall, while damage over one minute might be similar, changing a trade keystone to burst keystone gives.... well more burst, which is hurting the game.

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 2, 20184 votes

How do you counter burst aside from asking for it to be nerfed?

SalsonAug 2, 20184 votes

If game health is important, then burst should be dodgeable. Which is why Duskblade and overpowered Ignite is a problem.

Crescent DuskAug 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If game health is important, then burst should be dodgeable. Which is why Duskblade and overpowered Ignite is a problem.

Not so easy to dodge when you give some assassins even greater range than several mages and a slow on a 650 range poke that has virtually no activation time on Zed's WE and whose poke will be up for every minion wave and costs no resources to miss.

DW DianaAug 2, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVTH5Yln,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-02T07:10:58.900+0000)

You’re forgetting the ease of which you could proc thunderlord’s (ticking damage like GP ult or Morg pool insta procced it) and it’s much lower cool down.

You can’t just look at numbers and call it a day. You have to take in the whole context.

You comment suggests it isn't easy to proc electrocute... Is this really your opinion?

SalsonAug 2, 20183 votes

It only hurt some minor users like GP, Brand or Malz. Didn't do shit to prime users like Zed or LB.

DW DianaAug 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It only hurt some minor users like GP, Brand or Malz. Didn't do shit to prime users like Zed or LB.

The core one I can see it effective was Taliyah with her Q tbh, but yeah, the "interactive" changes to thunderlords to make it electrocute made little difference to most, and certainly not enough to warrant the extra power given to it.

TargonAug 2, 201815 votes

I would prefer if Electrocute was replaced with the late season-7 Thunderlord's Decree.

Electrocute is much more problematic that TLD. While the CD of TLD was lower - the lower damage accompanied by the lower CD reinforced making multiple good trades against your opponent. Meanwhile, Electrocute rewards making at least one good trade against your opponent, which feels unfair - similar to how Zoe's E > Q feels. She can miss 100 E>Q combos, but as soon as she lands 1, you're dead.

DoktorKaiserAug 2, 201813 votes

When I said this 3 months ago I got downvoted to hell. This rune is uninteractive, unfun, broken and utterly ruins the gameplay in the early game.

The Bad TouchAug 2, 20187 votes

I mean we are basically beating a dead horse....

New Riot loves all in 3 shot burst damage.

So what game is old Riot working on so I can go play that when it comes out?

Bot probs fedAug 2, 20185 votes

My main issue is stacking this rune. You get ganked by 2 ppl using this rune and there is nothing you can do

GhazterAug 2, 20184 votes

I played cho support and was instantly killed because the Pyke procked electrocute on me while I was full health at lvl 1, he was 2. I think the adc may have also procked electrocute. I was by no means taking that much damage from the auto attacks.

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 2, 201810 votes

played cho support and was instantly killed because the Pyke procked electrocute on me while I was full health at lvl 1, he was 2.

That's a just huge mistake you did. You should never get into fights as level 1 vs level 2. Players have been capitalizing on this kind of cheese for years. The most important level ups to watch out for are 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 5 to 6.

theChibiTinaAug 2, 20181 votes

How do you know he even wanted to fight. Maybe Pyke landed a hook and it was all over for him at that point.

Rins Thigh SocksAug 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

How do you know he even wanted to fight. Maybe Pyke landed a hook and it was all over for him at that point.

How about when you see the opponent has killed 8 minions and the 9th is about to fall you don't walk up to the Pyke.

If you make a mistake that big it doesn't matter how much you "want" to fight a kill lane ought to be able to kill you, or at the very least blow sums.

ΗuaweiAug 2, 20184 votes

I was watching an older League gameplay video and i saw a gank from a jungler.

The guy getting ganked had time to react and i could clearly see what killed him in the end and why and he had decent reaction times.

Fast forward, i watched a very new video of a Darius getting ganked.

Both laner and jungler proc'ed their Electrocute on Darius and they probably also had Coup de Grace because Darius HP bar dissapeared in 0.00001 seconds.

I was like... wth, is this gameplay, how did he die? How could he react?

GabresolAug 2, 20183 votes

I would be happy if ignite and exshaust would at least not proc it... If you have 500 health zed can kill you by using shadow w basic attack ignite on level 4. He does not need his skillshot. (just one example)

Crescent DuskAug 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I would be happy if ignite and exshaust would at least not proc it... If you have 500 health zed can kill you by using shadow w basic attack ignite on level 4. He does not need his skillshot. (just one example)

His damage needs nerfing, period. His shadow slash does enough damage, but on top of that the shurikens are easy to land on a target slowed by said shadow slash.

It wouldn't be so aggravating if the activation time and projectile speed of his shadow weren't so ridiculously quick, it's actually quicker than most mage projectiles.