Since season 2, its ALWAYS been an ADC meta. Forget seeing assassins half the time mid lane, or tanks in two thirds of the jungle, these are all secondary to the dominance of ADC's (and their babysitters). The changes in patch 5.16, especially to Mordekaiser, might finally see ADC's a little less dominant.
Discuss
Durzaka51 votesIs it also the support meta? Because we have had 1 support per side since season 2 as well.
How about the jungler meta? Because we have had 1 jungler per side since season 2 also.
It is a position that is always going to be filled. Dota 2 does it differently, but they also have at least 1 carry on each side, SMITE does it, HotS does it, this isnt a thing unique to LoL. Get over it.
TheDuelist99916 votessupports move with the secondary meta shifts tho from heal to poke to tanky
RiotRiotRepertoir26 votessupports move with the secondary meta shifts tho from heal to poke to tanky
To me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
Auryiel4 votesMake champions that aren't AD carries that can actually fill these niches
Sadly, that's not really be done. Ex : Azir's turret destroying capability was heavily nerfed, he's more about poke than sustained damage. Cass can't do much against towers. Zigg's passive is a step in the right direction, but not nearly enough.
BruisingEmu1 votesMake champions that aren't AD carries that can actually fill these niches
Sadly, that's not really be done. Ex : Azir's turret destroying capability was heavily nerfed, he's more about poke than sustained damage. Cass can't do much against towers. Zigg's passive is a step in the right direction, but not nearly enough.
Diana too actually. Her passive "cleave" applies to towers and is pretty notable mid to late game.
Auryiel3 votesAs a melee champion, Diana cannot realistically use her passive on towers in siege situations.
THAT'S why AD carries are needed. Because their range and inherent safety (most AD carries have dashes nowadays) allow them to poke down towers in siege situations one huge AA at a time.
Minion wave comes up, shoot it once or twice, back off with the turret having lost 30% of its HP. If Diana has a build that allows her to shred turrets, chances are she does NOT want to be easily picked off and CC'd by the enemy team, which WILL happen if she tries to go for the turret. In a situation where Diana's team is ahead, that's not as much of a problem, but when you're pretty equal, you NEED a way to safely kill those turrets.
Honestly, having mages deal way more damage to towers would be a good start. Increase their AP ratio on AAs against buildings to something like 60%-70% + base AD (from 40% + base AD).
Then, you'd still have the problem of who the fuck kills the tanks and deals the dps, but finding a way to squeeze in those Master Yi, Yasuo, Cass, Ryze, in your comp is also a good start.
Miraweave1 votesAs a melee champion, Diana cannot realistically use her passive on towers in siege situations.
THAT'S why AD carries are needed. Because their range and inherent safety (most AD carries have dashes nowadays) allow them to poke down towers in siege situations one huge AA at a time.
Minion wave comes up, shoot it once or twice, back off with the turret having lost 30% of its HP. If Diana has a build that allows her to shred turrets, chances are she does NOT want to be easily picked off and CC'd by the enemy team, which WILL happen if she tries to go for the turret. In a situation where Diana's team is ahead, that's not as much of a problem, but when you're pretty equal, you NEED a way to safely kill those turrets.
Honestly, having mages deal way more damage to towers would be a good start. Increase their AP ratio on AAs against buildings to something like 60%-70% + base AD (from 40% + base AD).
Then, you'd still have the problem of who the fuck kills the tanks and deals the dps, but finding a way to squeeze in those Master Yi, Yasuo, Cass, Ryze, in your comp is also a good start.
^
She's absolutely bonkers as a splitpusher though. If you go for Nashors you kill towers absurdly fast and can usually kill whoever comes to stop you.
Xela Syab5 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
bro. It would change everything.
Hellioning22 votesBecause teamfighting and kills don't win you the game. Killing the nexus wins you the game. In order to do that you have to kill at least five towers and an inhibitor, and ADCs are the best at killing towers. So until we get team deathmatch, ADCs will be in every game.
ArkenStorm15 votes
would like a word with you about those towers
Hellioning16 votesIt's not just 'killing towers fast'. It's 'killing towers while they are being defended.' Of those, only Trynd can really 'ignore' the enemy and just attack the tower, and he is easier to CC.
ArkenStorm1 votesoh i gotcha. but splitpushing OP.
Hellioning5 votesIt's not really a viable strategy when you know that the only big tower killing threat on their team is going to try and splitpush.
SociopathFriend1 votesThis is true, I had an enemy 
top once and he openly dared me to leave lane and watch as he took my towers.
I dined on clown all game. 
Eventually I waited until I killed him again and then hauled my posterior to my team to make a teamfight push for the win.
Granted, lane Shaco is silly, Tryn and his company are generally much harder to stop than Shaco.
Ariel the Cruel18 votesI once had a troll Shaco on my team. Was one of the most hilarious things ever. He built pure tank (+ sightstone - WOO!). Then spent the entire game just jukeing the hell out of the other team. Any time we went for an objective, he would de-ward then face check their team and let them chase him half way across the map. Meanwhile we took the objective unopposed.
Granted, in coordinated play that would never work. But for a Yolo queue match, it was just a riot.
lDontLiftIcarry2 votesswift boots AP shaco the god. More annoying than your sisters kids. And more fun than a tramploline into a pool.
KONO RUBICK DA4 votes
exactly
It's not just 'killing towers fast'. It's 'killing towers while they are being defended.' Of those, only Trynd can really 'ignore' the enemy and just attack the tower, and he is easier to CC.
only way those melee champions can't destroy the tower is with a waveclear mage like ziggs clearing the wave in 2 sec. i played black market with a lot of melee against range, in this situation your tank just need to run in their team tanking the damage and the tower will fall in 2/2.5 with the focus of the team. Of course your tank will die but you took the tower
ArkenStorm2 votestotally wurf. I would also argue that Jax can almost totally ignore everyone to take a tower
BluePolarizer1 votesno, Jax can't tank late game APs. He can kill them if he's fighting back but he can't just keep facetanking them.
ArkenStorm1 voteswell...with his ult... IDK
kile1478 votesThe point is that when a melee goes to take tower he can take aggro from the enemy team and your team has to go balls deep to protect him, which instigates a teamfight under their tower. With marksmen you can shred the tower from relative safety and if the enemy team tries to focus you then your team can pull you out without having to go all the way in. It doesn't matter how fast a melee can shred a tower, it's still riskier than a marksmen doing it if the tower is being defended. As long as that remains the case marksmen will be in every high elo game. I think that nowadays you could get away with having no marksmen and instead letting Yi hyper carry you with devourer, but that wouldn't be successful at pro level because the best defense is the other guy not being able to reach you.
Kuroi861 votesAscension anyone?
...
Well it's close enough!
KONO RUBICK DA2 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
EASY, the laning phase. Try to lane as a melee+support against ranged+support it's impossible. In the black market mode i played more than 100 game with a melee carry, thanks to their items me and my friend we could lane against them as for example master yi+lulu vs tristana+morgana while doing good in team fight thanks to shield+meditate+lulu ulti ect...
in EVERY game we had no problem to push, people says that it's impossible to push without a carry it's totally possible. The AP carry himself was doing so much damage to the tower.
Do ADC make your team push faster? yes is it impossible to push without them? NO
if you guy make melee vs range possible as a match up, then the ranged ADC won't be the only pick bot, and many melee sustained damage will show themselves bot.
Earl Eulrich3 votesWhat do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
mostly the fact that crit is just an overpowered stat that Riot refuses to look at since forever...
Kwikdraw7 votesThis.
"Oh you have 6k hp and 400 Armor? Let me buy this Last Whisper to make your armor irrelevant. And then I'll build IE, PD, and Shiv/PD, and watch your 6k hp melt in 4 seconds"
"Oh you have 2k hp and 100 Armor?"
Auto-attack
Bye bye!
Diananmen Square4 votesIf someone has 6k health, you might consider a 
.
That way they die in 3 seconds instead of 4.
CrazedPorcupine2 votesChanging Azir to an AP marksman would be a good start. Emphasize his Soldier DPS instead of his W-Q-AA burst pattern. Reworking Kayle to an AP Marksman would also be a good change, emphasize her AS/AP magic damage on her E.
There aren't really any other options for making AP champions marksman in that they focus heavily on some form of AA modification/steroid and sustained damage. Azir is a good choice because of his W's bonus AS and tower taking power. In fact Azir is the next best choice for who to use to replace the bot lane ADC.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesThere is one option for an AP marksman. But you won't like it.
CrazedPorcupine1 votesWho? I'm pretty sure I could stand anyone becoming an AP marksman if it made sense.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votes
Rozzeta2 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
It's way too naive to think it that way. The shift from poke/sustain to tanky initiators came as a result of a massive nerf of all poke support's base damage in the name of scaling utility, while also increasing tanky supports utility for free (see Thresh gaining offensive and defensive stats for free, Leona losing 10 base defensive stats on W while gaining a scaling that easily refunds the nerf with just basic stats, Braum gaining damage for building HP). As a result of that, Poke supports were unable to push away tanky supports early in the game. This is something that started with Season 4, and is completely intentional. Tanky initiator supports fit this game's philosophy of "Get the kill, feel good about it", so the difference in power between the two groups has not been addressed with the same celerity metagolems/poke ADC/Assassins metas have been.
Rundus12 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
From what I can gather, adc's have become quintessential for their ability to dish out massive DPS late game while also retaining the ability to siege down towers well as the game progresses. For these two reasons primarily, an adc is necessary in a team a majority of the time. Even if a different form of carry goes bot, an adc is still needed somewhere or they risk not being able to outdamage an enemy adc (there are ways around this, but they're risky). If more adc-types of champs could solo-lane better, it might be a thing. Same with if apc's could seige towers better. Some can. It is possible, but rare.
Selegun2 votesMake Ohmwrecker like Ruby Sightstone. Grant less stats and increase the tower shut down time, maybe more time per level with a 2 minute cooldown with 30 seconds before the same tower can get hit again. Half the reason ranged carries get away its because they always have that last tower to get behind and no one wants to dive for the kill.
Qarekeo3 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
If I may.
I think Zz'rot Portal is a great step in making a meta where marskmen at bottom lane isn't entirely necessary. It allows characters building full tank to seige towers and take them down really quickly, along with pushing lanes like crazy. It's a powerful late-game tool, but it's not built much, and maybe some details about how you counter it keep it from being an ADC replacement.
My point is that maybe it's items that we need to give non-marksmen a way to take objectives. Zz'rot Portal was made just for this, so maybe an AP or bruiser item that helped take down towers and monsters would help? Since marksmen already naturally take down towers very quickly, this could be seen as an edge they have and build to account for. Mages and tanks however, can't naturally take objectives as well as marksmen, so giving them strong tools to do the same would balance out the necessity of each class in a way that would make players feel better about their roles.
One idea I have for mages is a strong AP item with an active ability that scales with AP and can only be cast on towers and monsters. Think of a cross between the Smite summoner spell and Ohmwrecker's active. It would require a really short cooldown (like Ravenous Hydra) to work and to not be castable on champions.
For tanks, I want to see the changes 5.16 will have on Zz'rot Portal's scalings before I say much else. Besides that, non-jungler tanks may need a way to take down dragons and Barons without giving them extra damage against champions. I'm afraid of this stepping on jungler territory, but still think this is worth considering.
For bruisers, they might be able to take advantage of 5.16's Zz'rot Portal, but if they can't, maybe letting Ravenous Hydra's active do damage to towers would help too. You have to be right next to the tower anyway when using it, so it wouldn't feel very different.
Finally, for supports, some changes to Banner of Command would benefit them. Maybe make the active more directly about pushing waves and taking towers? It's already a sort of split-pushing and tower taking item, but it doesn't feel good if a lane isn't already pushed like crazy.
Those are my thoughts. I know you get a ton a replies, but I hope a red sees this.
JAGMAG3 votesi think if you allowed magic on auto attacks to effect towers for example 
dealing magic damge to towers ...if you could just make those apply to towers ranged apc such as a 
could easily replace an adc imo maybe buff the items scaling a bit or add similar items
JedenVojak1 votesIts the fact that they can take out turrets from range, where as other champions either don't do enough damage (like mages) or have to risk death (melee champions) in order to siege the turrets. I think if you could solve that somehow, you could see markmans not being super mandatory.
Maybe some kind of item for it? Like: "Guy's Battering Ram" Active - take less turret damage for 5 seconds or until your next auto attack: if the auto attack is against a turret do extra TONS OF DAMAGE.
Partholonian2 votesIts the fact that they can take out turrets from range, where as other champions either don't do enough damage (like mages) or have to risk death (melee champions) in order to siege the turrets. I think if you could solve that somehow, you could see markmans not being super mandatory.
Maybe some kind of item for it? Like: "Guy's Battering Ram" Active - take less turret damage for 5 seconds or until your next auto attack: if the auto attack is against a turret do extra TONS OF DAMAGE.
There's already an item that makes you take 0 turret damage for a few seconds (and your team, too). Nobody builds it.
People don't want to itemize specifically against turrets because they think it will make their team lose teamfights in the open, at Dragon/Baron, etc. The concept of a power budget is so ingrained that an item that is strong against turrets must be weak against everything else. (Although, ironically, the same is clearly not true of a champion. Jinx and Tristana are amazing towerkillers, even compared to other marksmen, but that doesn't make them bad at fighting champions.)
It might be possible for a team to go without a marksman and take towers with 
(well, maybe not that last one... yet...) but what would they gain that would be better than the standard meta that has a towerkiller built in with no need to deviate from normal items?
P.S. In theory you could also be ok with being bad at siege because you just plan to control the center of the map until you have 5 dragons and a baron and then it doesn't matter how bad your comp is at siege, but in practice the amount of gold turrets are worth in the midgame would make it difficult to succeed with a strategy that deliberately writes them off. Similarly for "we're ok with only being able to take turrets if at least 2 of their team are dead so they don't dare defend" -- it narrows your options too much if you can't get the picks or force teamfights, unless the teamfighting edge you gain for giving up a marksman is implausibly large.
JedenVojak1 votesThere's already an item that makes you take 0 turret damage for a few seconds (and your team, too). Nobody builds it.
People don't want to itemize specifically against turrets because they think it will make their team lose teamfights in the open, at Dragon/Baron, etc. The concept of a power budget is so ingrained that an item that is strong against turrets must be weak against everything else. (Although, ironically, the same is clearly not true of a champion. Jinx and Tristana are amazing towerkillers, even compared to other marksmen, but that doesn't make them bad at fighting champions.)
I would say people don't want to buy that item because its passive is not anywhere near good enough for what it is. The cooldown on it is too long and it only lasts 3 seconds. It's stats are all around okay for the cost, but I don't think it's as slot efficient as other defense options.
It seems stated out more as a dive item than a towerkiller item, and that's kinda the main problem with it far as I can tell.
Sire Hippington3 votesThem beeing the (relativ) savest, highest dps vs champs, highest dps vs neutral objectives(and for kallista also highest execute), highest damage vs buildings And highest sustain champs all at once, while haveing a dominant laneingphase and beyond godlike lategame. They just bring to much at once to the team. The only champ that can somwhat bring the same to the team iis Azir, haveing a good lane, high dps, great lategame and tower-shreding. All other champs lack in one of the areas. You can make adc-less teamcomps work, but ypou need to be 5 premade as it needs more coordination, and usually revolves around a strong early, snowballing it to an end midgame. Once come to late, adcs just add to much of everything.
ProfDrDeath8 votesThere are actually more sides to the ADC+Support bot lane coin, which makes moving teams away from a ranged AD auto-attack based champion + support bot difficult:
The first is the need for high and focused sustained damage to efficiently take down big targets (Baron, Dragon, enemy tanks) and structures (Towers, Inhibitors, Nexus). High and focused sustained damage can, in principle, come from two sources: Low CD, spammable spells and continous damage-over time effects (Cassio, Ryze, Karthus, Anivia to a lesser extent - her focused damage is more bursty) and auto-attacks with their five-factor multiplicative scaling (AD, AS, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, ArPen) - thus, AD auto-attack based champions.
The second important thing to note is that a build that is based on five synergizing factors is, by necessity, rather strict (it boils down to a more or less mathematical problem with the stats of the items, making additional utility a more secondary concern) and squishy (items have only a limited number of different stats - usually three to four - and any stat not dedicated to offense weakens you exponentially. This is THE single most impactful drawback of multiplicative scaling.).
This factor, squishiness by necessity, is the reason why these kinds of builds are only implemented on ranged champions - simply put, range is its own form of survivability, and a very powerful one at that, too - can't kill what you can't hit (safely).
Another factor that goes together with the survivability advantage of range lies in the fact that usually, a ranged champion is less level-reliant for survivability, as range does (mostly) not scale with extra levels. This makes ranged champions better for sharing XP than melees.
Auto-attack improving stats don't scale as hard with levels as tankiness, either (the gold value in tank stats you get per level >> the gold value in damage stats). Same is true for base damages on abilities - you usually need upwards of 50 additional AP (1000 gold) to get the same increase in damage you'd get from an additional level in an ability. These two facts make sharing XP worse for champions depending on their abilities (=mages, including the aforementioned low-CD ones) or needing every bit of tankiness (= all melees).
However, in contrast to its scaling with XP, auto-attack damage scales superstrong with gold (for example, on most Marksmen champions, a single BF is almost equal to ALL the AD you get from leveling your champion to 18).
Hence, auto-attack based, ranged champions are better suited for sharing XP, but not gold. The fact that SR features only 4 gold&XP streams for 5 players means that two of them have to share (as it is impossible due to the laws of space and time to share equally between everyone at the same time). And, for the facts explained above, the person that can share his XP without losing out too much is a ranged, auto-attack based champion.
The additional benefit of having a second champion with a rAABC is that it either enables both to make strong offensive moves (if both champions in question are strong early) or enables the combo to better withstand said offensive moves by their enemies (in case of the rAABC being weaker early).
All these factors combined result in every team featuring a ranged AD champion that builds offensively.
TL;DR: Need for focused sustained damage, base-stat scaling, SR set-up, resource allocation and basic rules of League's itemization together are responsible for ranged ADCs being the optimal choice for the partner of the support in the duo lane.
Trash ADC Btw2 votesThis feels strikingly close to an admission that you feel personally that Mordekaiser being an ADC replacement in bot-lane is unlikely to work out.
Just pointing that out. I'm sorry if it seems like I keep bringing this up, but you're the rioter responding and this is kinda a thread about the topic.
g07h4xf003 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
Literally ever single other game in history is able to find a balance between melee vs ranged. Rito and League of Legends (6 years running) seems to be the only game/company that can't figure it out. Dota 2 is a cousin/sister game to League of Legends where there are actually melee carries and you don't need to have a ranged "marksman" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. How about Rito does some homework to find out why and how other games are able to find this balance, then try to implement something here?
As long as Rito keeps having a bias for ranged champions and don't actually release good items to help melee champions, ADCs will always be "necessary" and "dominant" in team comps.
The 5.16 patch proves that Rito doesn't actually care and want to make ranged damaged champions even stronger.
several patches ago was a good start in helping balance, but since then it's been nerfed into oblivion and by next patch it will be a support-only item that will be niche to build. Great.
CubedJustice1 votesIf you've noticed, League and Dota aren't the same, and the same things don't work for both games. They had the same base material, and from that, spread into two unique games with unique balances.
KONO RUBICK DA2 votesIf you've noticed, League and Dota aren't the same, and the same things don't work for both games. They had the same base material, and from that, spread into two unique games with unique balances.
let's see:
g07h4xf003 voteslet's see:
-turn rate balancing kiting well riot and the community don't want it -poor man shield balancing ranged poke, look at doran shied: shit since 2 years and riot don't want to fixe it -ranged carry having bad base AD, sniper the equivalent of caitlyn has 800 range and 15-21 base AD meanwhile treant protector the equivalent of maokai has 81 base AD. When i look at ranged adc, caitlyn has 47 which is 7 less than tryndamere and it applies to all melee/ranged characters. Riot can just tune down their base AD and their poke will be nerfed, melee can then lane against them
This right here. Remove perfect kiting from the game.
Also, base movement speeds. There are still a number of melee champions with 325-335 movement speed so they hit like 380 with fully upgraded boots. Meanwhile ADCs can match that and be faster by simply having 
or 
. Give melee champions more movement speed options, especially tanks. Remember Force of Nature? 8% movepseed right there that tanks could buy. Now they have 
which needs to stack and they can lose the movespeed if they attack or get CC'd. Great.
Tweaking base movement speed would also be another big step.
KONO RUBICK DA1 votesThis right here. Remove perfect kiting from the game.
Also, base movement speeds. There are still a number of melee champions with 325-335 movement speed so they hit like 380 with fully upgraded boots. Meanwhile ADCs can match that and be faster by simply having
Tweaking base movement speed would also be another big step.
riot already said multiple time that they won't remove kiting. But well please take care of ranged base AD
g07h4xf003 votesriot already said multiple time that they won't remove kiting. But well please take care of ranged base AD
Then add counters to kiting. Make 
actually block damage. In Dota 2 the deadman's shield item is 500g and blocks 20 damage if you're melee. And their ranged champion base ADs are like around 20. Our ranged champions have like 50 some base AD and our shield costs 440g blocking 8 damage. Wow, 8 damage! No top laner actually buys this item anymore it's pretty useless.
used to be the perfect anti-kiting item because it reduced movespeed on-hit by 10% and attack speed by 15%. The movespeed debuff was removed which basically made its passive a strictly worse version of the 
passive.
was a step in the right direction but its active cooldown was increased to 90s (for comparison, 
active has a 40-second cooldown) and its base stats were nerfed to shit. After 5.16 ONLY supports will build this item, if ever.
More and more ADCs released have more mobility and more slows making this problem worse. We're going in the exact opposite direction.
Remember that items like and give bonus % movespeed to champions who don't really need it...
g07h4xf002 votesIf you've noticed, League and Dota aren't the same, and the same things don't work for both games. They had the same base material, and from that, spread into two unique games with unique balances.
Flawed argument. So you're saying that because they are different games you can't expect both to be balanced? Stupid.
Other games have this balance including games that aren't even MOBAs (but have an online/multiplayer/competitive aspect).
Miraweave1 votesTo me, this is a good point, in that when comparing supports over the last few years, we've seen them specialize in doing a lot of different things. Granted, they've all lanes with adcs for the most part, the thing they brought to their team's teamfight or strategy wasn't simply one static thing. The same could be said of junglers, where we've seen a variety of different picks with different purposes to their teams.
You could make a similar argument for adcs, in that Ezreal pokes and Graves bursts and Kog does the hyper carry thing, but at the end of the day, I think they are pretty much all just filling a team's needs in 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' and 'turret destroyers'. There could be more or slightly different things, but I think the point still stands.
It's unlikely to me that adcs will be replaced anytime soon unless there are champions or a strategy that can fill in the holes in the team comps they're leaving behind. Unless, of course, I'm falsely assuming that things like 'sustained reliable teamfight damage' are a core component to a successful team.
What do you guys think? What is it that makes ranged adcs seemingly irreplaceable to the game? Or, what would it take for them to become less meta or even non meta?
I think it's just basically the fact that autoattacks scale so well that not having a source of autoattack DPS puts you incredibly behind.
ACENOX1 votesso something is going to be done?
