Why does Jinx's Rocket deal 10% AD bonus damage?

Kingsgrave·Apr 3, 2015·18 votes·2,253 views

She already gains AoE attacks that can crit at around 700 range. Why does she also need 10% of her AD as bonus damage on top of that?

41 Comments

IcyPepperApr 3, 201531 votes

Because it costs mana, and her attack speed drops to the lowest base of the adc class.

Only Play DariusApr 3, 201512 votes

Which is going to hurt more?

A rocket, or a bullet?

MrBuffingtonApr 3, 20151 votes

ikr, haven't you ever played an FPS? For real :3

Big LincolnApr 3, 20154 votes

It's incredibly frustrating to play against, especially considering that at level 9 she's only got 10 less range than Kog'maw and doesn't have the downside of any significant downtime and most similar steroids require the champ to pay for it with shortened range or almost exclusively single-target damage (and Draven has to catch his axes to keep his insane damage up)

imo putting more time between when she can switch stances would be a good way to balance her out; she can constantly build her attack speed back up and then burn it on rockets for some really obnoxious harass/damage, putting some meaningful periods in between when she can lob turbo-rockets at you would make her more manageable

IxozielApr 3, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PM8nNbEE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-03T06:50:03.385+0000)

It's incredibly frustrating to play against, especially considering that at level 9 she's only got 10 less range than Kog'maw and doesn't have the downside of any significant downtime and most similar steroids require the champ to pay for it with shortened range or almost exclusively single-target damage (and has to catch his axes to keep his insane damage up)

imo putting more time between when she can switch stances would be a good way to balance her out; she can constantly build her attack speed back up and then burn it on rockets for some really obnoxious harass/damage, putting some meaningful periods in between when she can lob turbo-rockets at you would make her more manageable

Most "similar" steroids reduce your range? What? Kog's steroid buffs his range WHILE giving him % max hp damage. Twitch ult buffs his range. I can't think of any ADC steroids that REDUCE your range. And it's not a steroid. It nerfs her attack speed while slightly increasing her damage, and disables her attackspeed bonus that she gets from her minigun. It's good for farming and harassing early game, and completely inferior to the massive AS you get from minigun otherwise. How exactly can you stand laning against caitlyn if jinx bothers you so much? She has great range, her Q is great for harassing, and she's the safest adc in the game. At least you can kill Jinx with an aggresive support... caitlyn will just net away and have traps set down anyway.

You forget that draven catching his axes also feeds his passive, which feeds him more gold on a kill. It also refreshes the CD onW. He also gets an attackspeed boost from W, Jinx has one steroid, her minigun.

Jinx is pretty strong, but the rocket isn't the problem. Her passive and her ult allow her to chain together kills and keep the MS bonus for a long time, which makes up for her only real weakness, her poor mobility (outside of passive).

This is especially relevant in teamfights, when she gets a kill, then gets another one because of the passive, etc etc. That's why she's such a threat if she gets really fed in the laning phase. Still, she's really useless if she doesn't do well, because she has no escapes and her only steroid (minigun) has rampup time. I would much rather play against a Jinx than a Lucian / Tristana, because of their insane mobility.

Big LincolnApr 3, 20154 votes

kog has abysmal range when his W is down (500 isn't it?) -- thus, he pays for his increased range a lot harder when it's down (which is 9 seconds -- I've yet to see the AD Kog Build that includes CDR unless you're a fan of the Cleaver.). Twitch's steroid is also on a longer cooldown than Jinx's toggled ability. I'm sorry, I worded that really terribly after reading it over

Draven is more vulnerable to getting CC'd or caught trying to move through minions catching axes than Jinx should ever be and if he gets shut down he loses potentially massive amounts of gold. He also burns through mana a lot harder and a lot faster than Jinx does in most realistic situations

Jinx doesn't lose her attack speed immediately; it winds down, which means she still has relatively high attack speed for the first few autos and a massive chunk crit on every single one after

honestly jinx is.. way too easy for how good she is. the few games I've played her with I can even start out horribly and thanks to her absurdly strong wave-clear I can get back into the game faster than Twitch or Kog and I'm an absurdly stronger mid-game force than both of them and with not much of a weaker late game

YorukinApr 3, 20154 votes

Actually, no matter how much attack speed she's wound up, it only lasts for all of one rocket, and that's only to make the transition feel less clunky. The rest of her rockets have an absolutely terrible attack speed, and most of the rocket spam you see is the result of her building item 3006 and whatever attack speed her player favors, frequently item 3087 or item 3046 . And really, anyone can reach that attack speed with a similar build; it's just less advisable on champions like Nautilus or Anivia.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 3, 20151 votes

her auto attack speed isn't terrible in rocket form isn't terrible, it's just as good as every other adc without an AS steroid.

Cosmic WarperApr 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PM8nNbEE,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-03T16:59:09.053+0000)

her auto attack speed isn't terrible in rocket form isn't terrible, it's just as good as every other adc without an AS steroid.

No it's not. Her base AS is among the lowest in the game. Not even close.

DoFrApr 3, 20152 votes

don't be hating on my AS Naut

ofartApr 3, 20151 votes

I'd say her late game is actually much stronger than either Kog's or Twitch's. She might not have as much damage in a dueling situation but if the enemy team clumps even a little bit, her damage is enormous. She also has great utility and an AoE global. I don't think there is any ADC better at team-fighting than her. Vayne is a better duelist but I think Jinx scales harder in realistic scenarios (teamfighting, area control etc.).

Sona PingApr 3, 20156 votes

Because a 0.1 ratio is tiny and empties her mana pool if used more than sparingly in lane.

While Draven 's does multiple times the damage, manaless after the first use, adds "snowballing stacks" for no cost, is far more efficient with mana, and by the time Jinx can use the rockets consistently, Draven has long been consistently doing 8.5X the damage of the rockets with critical hits on top of that.

I mean, you can compare apples to oranges but you can't think it odd that they grow in different places and taste differently covered in caramel.

Cosmic WarperApr 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PM8nNbEE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-03T06:50:03.385+0000)

It's incredibly frustrating to play against, especially considering that at level 9 she's only got 10 less range than Kog'maw and doesn't have the downside of any significant downtime and most similar steroids require the champ to pay for it with shortened range or almost exclusively single-target damage (and has to catch his axes to keep his insane damage up)

imo putting more time between when she can switch stances would be a good way to balance her out; she can constantly build her attack speed back up and then burn it on rockets for some really obnoxious harass/damage, putting some meaningful periods in between when she can lob turbo-rockets at you would make her more manageable

She's already a low mobility ADC that has one of the lowest Attack speeds in the game, and her long range form costs mana per rocket. Having a mana cost and low AS on your long range is a huge way to gate your range. Kog's range is gated through cooldown, and trist's is gated through levels. Jinx is balanced, especially in the tank meta of super cc and tanks. She doesn't melt tanks that easily.

Big LincolnApr 5, 20151 votes

honestly the more i've been playing versus Jinx the less I've had trouble with her

the problem that's given me the illusion of "this champ so op nerf plz" is that she always seems to end up fed off of lane. I'm still gonna ban her because I hate her in general, but she's alright

also I forgot they removed Kog's/Trist's mana costs, so I guess a lot of my argument falls short lol

BLU MedicApr 3, 20153 votes

It's the critical hits that bother me.

I mean, crockets are terrifying...

Earl EulrichApr 3, 20152 votes

yea, i´d like to see them just remove her ability to AoE-crit...and maybe even buff the ad-bonus further. It´d be just great to once see an ADC that can truly work without the usual IE build. Crit just makes the gameplay random and the buildpaths boring.

BLU MedicApr 3, 20151 votes

You can't avoid randomness, sadly. Heck, I'd be fine with more damage as long as Jinx can't randomly do 250% of her attack damage to multiple targets.

Earl EulrichApr 3, 20151 votes

why wouldn´t you be able to remove randomness? they got rid of dodge because it had been random, they could do the exact same thing to crit and it would be for the better. Considering they call it e-sports they really should make sure that skill is the only deciding factor, instead of having a crit-streak with the stupid IE+shiv 40% chance lottery-build anyway.

BLU MedicApr 3, 20151 votes

I meant that you can't avoid being hit by a critical auto attack. If I had the choice, I'd remove them.

JhaerikApr 4, 20152 votes

Technically crits aren't random. First of all computers can't generate truly random numbers.(Though that's irrelevant here) As far as I know Riot uses a weighed crit table that "averages" out when crits happen. Prevent crit streaks for the most part. You can test it out for yourself. Go to bots and grab 50% crit. Count your crit streaks. Do 4 auto attacks and stop. Do this 100 times. Counter the number of 4 crit streaks. Mathematically you should see ~6 4-crit streaks. You won't however.

Essentially, each consecutive crit diminishes the chase of the next crit slightly, and each non crit increases the chance of the next crit slightly. All being proportionate to your crit chance. if >0% and <100%

MrBuffingtonApr 3, 20152 votes

BLU Medic, you talking about TF2 Soldier, or Jinx? :P

BLU MedicApr 3, 20155 votes

Both, especially if Jinx has her full build and IE.

Although there's only two things scarier than crockets: crit sticky traps and a Kritzkrieg'd Widowmaker Engineer with amazing aim.

MrBuffingtonApr 3, 20152 votes

Haha the crit widowmaker engineer, good times XD

BLU MedicApr 3, 20152 votes

Also rather impressive are the Kritz'ed Enforcer Spy and the Uberecharged Phlogistinator Pyro.

MrBuffingtonApr 4, 20151 votes

Pretty much everyone with krits, lol, even mini krits. I remember going on an unofficial melee only server, playing scout with the soda popper so I could mini crit people with the fish. Fun times XD

BLU MedicApr 4, 20151 votes

Ah, but the Soda Popper no longer gives you mini-crits. It lets you jump 6 times instead.

MrBuffingtonApr 5, 20151 votes

Ah right, I forgot they changed that, man it's been a while...

BLU MedicApr 5, 20151 votes

They changed a lot of things. Crit-a-Cola is now OP, The Baby Face's Blaster is now super OP, the Loch-n-Load is still stupid and I don't have a clue what's up with the Short Circuit.

MrBuffingtonApr 6, 20151 votes

I keep seeing stuff about a hookshot, lol

BLU MedicApr 6, 20151 votes

Ah, the grappling hook, from the new (and rather crap) game mode called Mannpower. The grappling hook is fun, it offers (too) much mobility, but combine it with Capture the Flag, a Heavy Weapons Guy with 30 seconds of critical hits and a buff that reflects damage back at you, and it's just not fun.

MrBuffingtonApr 6, 20151 votes

I've seen some kgb punch heavy gameplay in that mode that was pretty funny

BLU MedicApr 6, 20151 votes

Yeah, you just grapple on to someone then punch them to death. Rinse and repeat.

AspynnApr 3, 20153 votes

Because she's one of the few immobile ADCs that is actually balanced between power and mobility. She gets better AAs for no dash. It's honestly something that a lot of the other immobile ADCs should have, or something like it.

Curling VeigarApr 3, 20152 votes

should just be removed entirely imo

GaleWinUnleashedApr 3, 20152 votes

To make up for her abysmal attack speed. And thematically it makes perfect sense: wouldn't you expect an exploding rocket to hurt more than a bullet?

XelviApr 3, 20151 votes

I agree, actually. Her late game is more insane than pre-rework Tristana's (which I don't understand at all - I mean, why rework a champ just to have another one replace her).

Sona PingApr 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why does Jinx's Rocket deal 10% AD bonus damage?

Because a 0.1 ratio is tiny (An extra long sword's worth of damage for spending 3600 gold on AD) and empties her mana pool if used more than sparingly in lane. It means she spends mana to get that small amount of extra damage only after buying multiple thousands of gold in AD while Varus gets the same amount of bonus damage free on every hit by putting just 1 point into his Blighted Quiver.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 3, 20151 votes

well late game, you will have almost 400ad, which would mean that each aa would do 40 additional damage, but lets say it crits. Each rocket late game, is an additional 100 damage. With this, Jinx out damages every adc mid to late game. It is a bit unnecessary.

Sona PingApr 3, 20153 votes

the .1 ad means Jinx outdamages every adc.

Except that's objectively false. 100 damage is nothing, the Statikk Shiv does more than that. And late game other ADCs abilities do more; Vayne does percent health damage, Kalista has those BS spear stacks that have far higher ratios per hit, and as I mentioned in the other post, Draven's AD steroid does 8.5X Jinx's.

You want to say you don't like Jinx or that you can't play well against her, that's fine. But don't make facile statements about the rockets and how she is out of line with other ADC champions because she's not, mathematically.