Vayne

BALDG1VEN BOOMER·Jan 17, 2018·84 votes·4,117 views

54% Win rate 33% Pick rate 41% Ban rate

http://na.op.gg/champion/vayne/statistics/adc

What else can be said about this disgusting champion? Why the fuck was Vayne allowed to go untouched for the entire pre season?

Fun part about it is that her win rate just seems to be going up and up, and it’s not like that wasn’t something you could’ve foresee, why does it take Riot this long to address problematic champions?

Stop buffing this champion through this rough every time worlds comes around no on likes her and she doesn’t need any buffs, but gotta see Uzi Vayne right? Just nerf her to the ground and leave her.

94 Comments

HethaleanJan 17, 201840 votes

Partly because the preseason is usually a little longer to give more and more time for problems to crop up so they can hit everything. Partly because the preseason was over the holidays so not a lot was done. They're changing her on the PBE now though.

Rathar DashingJan 17, 201827 votes

Why is this getting downvoted? It's 100% factually accurate.

Horse GrenadesJan 17, 201823 votes

Doesn't play into their narrative..

So it has to be #fakenews

Rathar DashingJan 17, 20184 votes

Okay, then why did I get downvoted?

DracosKasuJan 17, 20186 votes

Mostly because those people cant even counter your arguments better downvote without reply.

revliledpembrokeJan 17, 20182 votes

Because you're asking why someone got downvoted. That's almost Garen -teed to get downvoted as well.

SKT T1 NEUJan 18, 20182 votes

Actually, it isn't, early Vayne isn't good at all, she takes lots of macro, skill, and outplays in order to be useful. Being a Vayne main myself I can tell you that she only does damage when she has Items, and besides, she still and always will take lots of skill. If anything has to be nerfed, it would be ADC items like maybe 'Phantom Dancer.' Her ultimate is also likely to be nerfed since it lasts too long after getting kills, but Vayne is already being changed on the PBE. Vayne takes skill, she could use a slight nerf but nothing more just because you don't know how to play against her.

[vayne-pose]

Rathar DashingJan 18, 20181 votes

That comment doesn't even mention Vayne's early game...

DivewingJan 18, 20181 votes

Vayne has a high skill CEILING.

Crit items being so busted has also artificially lowered her skill FLOOR.

tl;dr - a monkey on a typewriter can pick up vayne and win a game, a pro-play vayne can 1v10

greekvandaLJan 17, 201836 votes

Because it's an adc. Adc are allowed to break the game.

VerxintJan 17, 201810 votes

Reminder that "counterplay" is a code word for whether or not ADC's can play against them

BjørnetjenestenJan 17, 20186 votes

Vayne is getting nerfed next patch, stop beating a dead horse. Do we really need to cry for vayne nerfs 7x per week, even after riot confirmed nerfs in 8.2? Crying and moaning is not gonna make the patch release earlier you know?

To OP: Just because you lose 80% of your games in placement, doesnt mean you need to start spread this bullshit on the boards. I can even see you lost with vayne on your own team.

This post is so dumb.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Janna Me FiddleJan 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is getting nerfed next patch, stop beating a dead horse. Do we really need to cry for vayne nerfs 7x per week, even after riot confirmed nerfs in 8.2? Crying and moaning is not gonna make the patch release earlier you know?

To OP: Just because you lose 80% of your games in placement, doesnt mean you need to start spread this bullshit on the boards. I can even see you lost with vayne on your own team.

This post is so dumb.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

The post isn't dumb because even ADC mains call her busted

All Riot are doing is removing her ability to "stat check" brute force games.

Her win rate will still be decently high, so will her pick rare.

Because they aren't tackling the costs of I Edge and Shiv which cause her to snowball like other hyper carries do in the midgame.

Expect Tahm/Thresh to show up a lot more alongside Vayne to keep her safe after relic shield goes.

BjørnetjenestenJan 18, 20183 votes

I dont think you can tell how strong Vayne is gonna be in 8.2, until it has been released and played for a few days. But its pretty obvious she will be weaker than she is now. Also Jinx getting a massive buff/revert, for her midgame, will probably push her into OP-zone. Kog and Twitch also seems to be pretty strong atm, and will get even closer to Vayne in 8.2. Snowball rune also getting nerfed in precision tree.

Because they aren't tackling the costs of I Edge and Shiv which cause her to snowball like other hyper carries do in the midgame.

Nerfing core items for a whole class on random, is probably a bad idea without any testing. You have no idea what consequence it will have on the meta.

This post is dumb AF, Vayne is already getting a huge nerf, and crying about her being strong is not helping or serving any purpose whatsoever. Especially not when riot already accepted she is a problem and nerfed her in 8.2.

I really cant stand the sheep mentality on this board. People would rather believe these random shitposts, instead of doing some research on pbe/redposts and analyze how the game will be changing.

Janna Me FiddleJan 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you can tell how strong Vayne is gonna be in 8.2, until it has been released and played for a few days. But its pretty obvious she will be weaker than she is now. Also Jinx getting a massive buff/revert, for her midgame, will probably push her into OP-zone. Kog and Twitch also seems to be pretty strong atm, and will get even closer to Vayne in 8.2. Snowball rune also getting nerfed in precision tree.

Nerfing core items for a whole class on random, is probably a bad idea without any testing. You have no idea what consequence it will have on the meta.

This post is dumb AF, is already getting a huge nerf, and crying about her being strong is not helping or serving any purpose whatsoever. Especially not when riot already accepted she is a problem and nerfed her in 8.2.

I really cant stand the sheep mentality on this board. People would rather believe these random shitposts, instead of doing some research on pbe/redposts and analyze how the game will be changing.

Vayne main detected.

Let me put this simply for you.

Static gold, that's gold per second. Went UP.

Gold earning in general has gone UP.

ADC item prices have gone unchanged.

Do you really think taking 20 AD off her ultimate and - 5 gold off Triumph will change anything except maybe she'll come online a minute later?

Get your head out of Vaynes backside.

Crit will still be the way to build

Shiv will still be disgustingly cost effective

Fleet Footwork will still be crazy with overheal

Because it's like that

FOR EVERY ADC THAT DIDN'T END UP GETTING OVERNERFED/NOT SO GOOD WITH CRIT PRIOR TO PRESEASON YOU ABSOLUTE SAUSAGE!

The changes are to stop it being abused in the professional scene, Vayne will still be ridiculous in solo queue.

The love tap she's getting won't change that at all.

BjørnetjenestenJan 18, 20181 votes

Doing the math and looking at her numbers, she will be weaker in 8.2. This is a fact, nothing to discuss here. At the same time, other hypercarries are not getting nerfed. Jinx is getting a huge buff. This means more competition for her and her winrate will go down. Spring is gonna be hypercarry meta, gonna be fun. If Shiv and IE are effective on Vayne, they will also be effective on others who can use the same setup.

btw. her uti is losing 30 ad, not 20.

An Enemy SutandoJan 18, 20182 votes

You're forgetting that the favorite pastime of most people who make threads on gameplay is whine and bitch about everything and anything under the sun instead of trying to better themselves. They'd much prefer having the game made easier for them instead of getting better themselves.

Daddy AntsJan 17, 20184 votes

I actually want them to hotfix that final hour nerf. fuck waiting another week.

I actually want to play my main.

Final Hour (R) AD bonus lowered from 30/50/70 to 20/30/40. Relic being nerfed. Coup de Grace, Cut Down and Last Stand being nerfed.

Vayne's win rate is going to take a decent hit.

Rathar DashingJan 17, 20186 votes

Don't forget the Triumph nerf! That's -5 gold for every kill she gets! So like, if she goes 10-0, that's an entire health pot gone from her budget.

Janna Me FiddleJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PK8rGmTa,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-17T17:22:26.950+0000)

Don't forget the Triumph nerf! That's -5 gold for every kill she gets! So like, if she goes 10-0, that's an entire health pot gone from her budget.

Triumph is just plain stupid, I'm convinced the devs were smoking crack when they decided to add a gold bonus to what is already a powerful heal effect after takedown effect.

Rathar DashingJan 18, 20182 votes

I agree, the gold was probably just added to make it feel more special, but it could and should be removed. I think they should take away all 25 gold it gives, and instead reduce the delay on the healing effect. I've died too many times to Zyra plants waiting for that Triumph to heal me.

Daddy AntsJan 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PK8rGmTa,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2018-01-18T04:39:38.845+0000)

I agree, the gold was probably just added to make it feel more special, but it could and should be removed. I think they should take away all 25 gold it gives, and instead reduce the delay on the healing effect. I've died too many times to Zyra plants waiting for that Triumph to heal me.

Takedown means Kill or Assist.

That aside I completely agree, they should remove the gold bonus.

Rathar DashingJan 18, 20181 votes

I know what takedown means...

GayFluffyUnicornJan 17, 20182 votes

Yes lets nerf coup de grace again until noone can use it anymore and adc just abuse the next broken thing.

DauntJan 18, 20181 votes

Everyone is abusing the stupid damage from that rune.

marzípanJan 17, 20184 votes

It's not the champion, its item 3302 causing the problem. Vayne's niche in this game is that she is supposed to have a horrible laning phase and can be easily bullied out, but shines in the late game through good creep farming. However, due to adc's now being allowed to use , which shouldn't be in the game, adc's with bad laning phases are now able to have good ones, because they cannot be bullied out of lane by Draven Ezreal Caitlyn Lucian .

Just, ADC's being able to use relic shield in the first place shouldn't be something that's allowed. In the PBE, halving the healing that it gives is a start, but it isn't enough.

Wouldn't it just be enough to make relic shield melee only, and classify Thresh as a melee champion? This would be fixed that way, unless I'm wrong.

It Hertz When IPJan 17, 20183 votes

{quoted} Wouldn't it just be enough to make relic shield melee only, and classify as a melee champion? This would be fixed that way, unless I'm wrong.

Thresh's AA range would have to be hit, unless you want him able to proc item 3074 at 450 range.

TheTruLoliJan 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's not the champion, its causing the problem. Vayne's niche in this game is that she is supposed to have a horrible laning phase and can be easily bullied out, but shines in the late game through good creep farming. However, due to adc's now being allowed to use , which shouldn't be in the game, adc's with bad laning phases are now able to have good ones, because they cannot be bullied out of lane by .

Just, ADC's being able to use relic shield in the first place shouldn't be something that's allowed. In the PBE, halving the healing that it gives is a start, but it isn't enough.

Wouldn't it just be enough to make relic shield melee only, and classify as a melee champion? This would be fixed that way, unless I'm wrong.

their not just halving the healing for ranged champions they r also getting rid of the passive shield and replacing it with a built in sightstone so adcs no longer will want this since it wont be providing extra health, plus vayne is getting nerfed next patch, they r removing 20 or so ad from her ult and something else i believe

Daddy AntsJan 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

their not just halving the healing for ranged champions they r also getting rid of the passive shield and replacing it with a built in sightstone so adcs no longer will want this since it wont be providing extra health, plus vayne is getting nerfed next patch, they r removing 20 or so ad from her ult and something else i believe

Final Hour (R) AD bonus reduced from 30/50/70 to 20/30/40.

It's a 10/20/30 reduction.

TylerBrahJan 18, 20184 votes

Explain how she's busted. Go on, do it.

Explain how she's literally irrelevant on the competitive scene (both in picks/bans) whereas actually busted chamions (Zoe/Orinn) are insta bans/picks.

Explain how she's only strong the moment early game lane bullying ADCs were coincidentally rendered trash tier (Draven/Caitlyn).

Explain how she's only strong the moment every hypercarry is coincidentally strong due to the relic shield/overheal trash meta that fits in conjunction with the lack of meta early game ADCs.

This board just needs to admit that they are trash at this game and inaccurate "win rate percentages" should never be used to accurately measure a champions busted nature. If Vayne is busted, explain how with numbers, comparisons and data. Not just correlative win rate percentages. Katarina ain't busted, Vayne ain't busted, you guys just suck at dealing against them.

If you want to see what champions are busted, look at what the insta bans are on the competitive scene, and yea, simply saying"DUDE THAT'S NOT FAIR TO COMPARE PRO PLAYERS VS US SILVER SHITTERS", is not an argument and it ironically works against your point. Because actually pro players who know everything there is to know about this game, know what's busted and what isn't alot more than you hard stuck silver shitters who still think Yasuo is broken.

So here's what's going to happen.

Silver stuck top/support mains are going to bitch about being irrelevant in the current meta
They will parrot narratives surrounding win rates and use it to imply that the game is horribly imbalanced and simultaneously hint that this is why they're hardstuck low elo trash that went 2/8 in their placements
They will then force Riot to look into this
Riot will then nerf the character
The character will still be strong because the character isn't the actual problem
They will then nerf the actual problem (Runes/Items)
The character will now be dumpster tier
The silver stuck top/support mains who started this mess by bitching on the forums, will still be low elo trash because Vayne (or any other """"Busted"""" champion) was never the problem
Suddenly a new consensus busted champion will emerge
Rinse and Repeat
Nothing is actually solved and things are only made worse

Happens every time.

Want evidence? Just look at the OP - http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=TSM+Piccaboo

Yep, this rant thread came right at the heel of a 6 loss streak. Really makes you think doesn't it, i'm sure this thread is intended to be constructive and actually further the betterment of this game, right?

In 14 games, Vayne has only been involved in 4 games (1 of which Vayne was on her team and she still got BTFO). Nah, OP is just on a massive loss streak (6) and is now coming onto this board, to circlejerk and blow off some steam with other hardstuck low elo players about the current hot topic, which just happens to be Vayne.

I challenge one person who thinks Vayne/Katarina or whatever latest meme OP champion is busted, to go in 20 ranked games with her and give me their GGOP. Show me how it goes. Should be freelo right?

DauntJan 18, 20183 votes

I don't think you're familiar with the boards and how they'd rather scream how a champ is broken rather than looking at the big picture and acknowledging that they're bad. Gameplay on the boards is a joke with 90% of the posts here being shit and inaccurate. I'm just glad Riot isn't influenced too much by this community since they also realized it's a joke.

HópeJan 18, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Explain how she's busted. Go on, do it.

Explain how she's literally irrelevant on the competitive scene (both in picks/bans) whereas actually busted chamions (Zoe/Orinn) are insta bans/picks.

Explain how she's only strong the moment early game lane bullying ADCs were coincidentally rendered trash tier (Draven/Caitlyn).

Explain how she's only strong the moment every hypercarry is coincidentally strong due to the relic shield/overheal trash meta that fits in conjunction with the lack of meta early game ADCs.

This board just needs to admit that they are trash at this game and inaccurate "win rate percentages" should never be used to accurately measure a champions busted nature. If Vayne is busted, explain how with numbers, comparisons and data. Not just correlative win rate percentages. Katarina ain't busted, Vayne ain't busted, you guys just suck at dealing against them.

If you want to see what champions are busted, look at what the insta bans are on the competitive scene, and yea, simply saying"DUDE THAT'S NOT FAIR TO COMPARE PRO PLAYERS VS US SILVER SHITTERS", is not an argument and it ironically works against your point. Because actually pro players who know everything there is to know about this game, know what's busted and what isn't alot more than you hard stuck silver shitters who still think Yasuo is broken.

So here's what's going to happen.

Silver stuck top/support mains are going to bitch about being irrelevant in the current meta

They will parrot narratives surrounding win rates and use it to imply that the game is horribly imbalanced and simultaneously hint that this is why they're hardstuck low elo trash that went 2/8 in their placements

They will then force Riot to look into this

Riot will then nerf the character

The character will still be strong because the character isn't the actual problem

They will then nerf the actual problem (Runes/Items)

The character will now be dumpster tier

Happens every time.

Want evidence? Just look at the OP - http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=TSM+Piccaboo

Yep, this rant thread came right at the heel of a 6 loss streak. Really makes you think doesn't it, i'm sure this thread is intended to be constructive and actually further the betterment of this game, right?

In 14 games, Vayne has only been involved in 4 games (1 of which Vayne was on her team and she still got BTFO). Nah, OP is just on a massive loss streak (6) and is now coming onto this board, to circlejerk and blow off some steam with other hardstuck low elo players about the current hot topic, which just happens to be Vayne.

I challenge one person who thinks Vayne/Katarina or whatever latest meme OP champion is busted, to go in 20 ranked games with her and give me their GGOP. Show me how it goes. Should be freelo right?

Why would you need someone to play Vayne and show you when the bitch has a 35% play rate and 54% win rate. That should say enough.

TylerBrahJan 18, 20183 votes

Way for my entire point about how win rate meaning jack shit in regards to how busted a champ is to go completely over your head.

Why don't you tell me what's exactly busted about her with specifity, not just "too much damage" (because other ADCs like Twitch/Tristana/Kog'Maw out damage her significantly right now and are far easier/safer to play due to their range) or any other shitty parroted comment you're likely googling right now to find, tell me exactly what's so broken about her. She has clear weaknesses and clear strengths, hence why she's fucking irrelevant in the pro scene.

It's nobody's fault that this board is filled with shitters who can't punish her. The problem has been stated clearly in my post, her direct counters are weak as fuck right now add to that how busted the runes currently are (giving ADCs braindead sustain early game) and there's no wonder why she and LITERALLY EVERY OTHER HYPERCARRY, is doing exceptionally well (look at Twitch for example).

Nerfing Vayne will do nothing until the Runes/Items are nerfed and champions like Caitlyn/Draven are buffed.

HópeJan 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It's nobody's fault that this board is filled with shitters who can't punish her.

So her 54% win rate in Diamond is filled with shitters who cant punish her.

Also win rate is very accurate in meaning how busted a champ is. Win rate isnt accurate in determining how frustrating a champion is

Two fundamental differences.

One of the problem with Vayne is that EVEN IF YOU BEAT HER IN LANE SHE WILL STILL OUTSCALE YOU AFTER A FEW MINUTES.

Buffing Caitlyn will do Nothing Buffing Draven will do Nothing when her problems have nothing to do with her ''counter champs feel weak''.

Shes supposed to be a tank buster, yet she decimates squishies faster than anything possible. Removing AD OFF HER ULT is actually the most reasonable nerf because her true damage will still apply to tanks for the most efficient damage, but essentially nerfing her physical auto damage which tanks dont mind too much in the first place if they're building resistances, but squishies DO care about her Auto damage and less W damage.

Do **NOT BUFF OTHER CHAMPIONS TO NERF VAYNE **

Do **Nerf the champion ** a bit moderately along with relic shield nerf and see what happens there.

DauntJan 18, 20182 votes

One of the problem with Vayne is that EVEN IF YOU BEAT HER IN LANE SHE WILL STILL OUTSCALE YOU AFTER A FEW MINUTES.

No, the thing is that it's harder to beat her in lane which leads to her hitting her power spike faster. She doesn't outscale you after a few minutes if you beat her in lane. She does the same thing Kog and Trist are currently doing but with slight more efficiency since she doesn't get as punished early. Again, that's not Vayne's problem. That's a problem with relic shield, runes and the current crit itemization. The nerf is kinda okay but it seems like a huge hit to a champion that's not the main issue of the current meta.

And yes, everywhere besides in Korea, Diamond is filled with shitters.

HópeJan 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, the thing is that it's harder to beat her in lane which leads to her hitting her power spike faster. She doesn't outscale you after a few minutes if you beat her in lane. She does the same thing Kog and Trist are currently doing but with slight more efficiency since she doesn't get as punished early. Again, that's not Vayne's problem. That's a problem with relic shield, runes and the current crit itemization. The nerf is kinda okay but it seems like a huge hit to a champion that's not the main issue of the current meta.

And yes, everywhere besides in Korea, Diamond is filled with shitters.

And i disagree because ive beaten plenty Vaynes and have seen Plenty Vaynes get shit in on lane and come back because she reached her 1 item power spike. Vaynes R is free AD.

EVEN IF YOU BEAT HER IN LANE, AS SOON AS SHE PRESSES R SHE GETS 1300G FOR FREE.

TylerBrahJan 19, 20181 votes

[deleted]

HópeJan 19, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Your match history says it all. You just suck at the game, you saw the latest meme and now you're on the bandwagon blaming your lack of skill on the latest hot topic.

Im sorry what? Click the full picture.

https://i.imgur.com/dHxXVoW.png

Are you just talking out of your ass now?

Oh wait i know, looking at your match history, you explicitly play Vayne, you literally MAIN Vayne, No wonder you are so defensive about this topic, hey i suggest going on a website called google and typing ''biased'' and reading the definition, Not only are your points invalid, you're trying to justify any obviously false statement into a true one just because it takes your side. No thanks not replying again to your trolly posts.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJan 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Was I suppose to be offended by a board smurf who called my silver but got placed in Silver? lol.. xD

There's too many irrelevant points in your post I'm not gonna even bother.

BigfootNamedYetiJan 18, 20183 votes

The one way to handle vayne on step process take away true DMG make it physical not true that way she's still can be strong but you can mitigate her bullshit __

BjørnetjenestenJan 18, 20184 votes

Yes lets remove a champs entire kit and identity, because one hardstuck silver doesnt know how to land his cc on a low range squishy adc.

BârdJan 18, 20183 votes

To be fair, it isn't unique to that guy.

There are a LOT of hardstuck silvers who can't deal with Vayne.

Janna Me FiddleJan 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, it isn't unique to that guy.

There are a LOT of hardstuck silvers who can't deal with Vayne.

Lot of Challengers can't deal with her either right now. Guess they should just CC her

Oh wait she's invisible

Whelp there goes our ADC.

justintime4yaJan 17, 20182 votes

I think the reason that ADC's are really strong is to balance the fact that tanks are also very strong right now. Take Leona, who was buffed and almost immediately nerfed due to Aftershock, or Ornn who can apply increased CC to an entire team if given the chance. An ADC is the only class with constant enough damage to properly punish a tank, but then squishies are punished far more heavily than tanks are, simply because they are tanks.

Besides, with the upcoming destruction of shield meta ADC's are easier to pop anyways.

FuhrerRicoJan 18, 20182 votes

Vayne's a fricken overloaded waste of space. No true counterplay. Fricken cancer. Screw riot I hate them and this game now. Finally done with this toxic game.

BjørnetjenestenJan 18, 20185 votes

Silver darius main, cries over vayne "overloaded"

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TylerBrahJan 18, 20182 votes

Every time

Elkington VIJan 18, 20182 votes

Because she's popular and flashy.

DracathioJan 18, 20182 votes

Why get her nerfed? Why not buff some other champions so they can actually fight her better? I mean I read a discussion a while back that in all honesty just shows how bad the game has become because champions are just getting nerfed left and right instead of real balance happening. Some champions are apparently also unplayable that use to be fun to play. Maybe people need to learn how to fight these champions better while at a disadvantage.

I QQ a lot during games because of me being new, but in all honesty my friends know how to fight all these champions and know how every champion has the ability to fight one another, even at a low chance of survival. It's called team work, learn how to use it before causing a champion that is fun for some people to become unfun and ruin this game even more so.