Can you stop nerfing vision?

Moody P·Oct 31, 2018·38 votes·12,382 views

Control Ward [Context]

Control wards able to be carried in inventory lowered from 3 to 2

It is so annoying how awful vision control and denial is compared to what it used to be. Why can't I choose to opt for sitting on reds if I want to deny vision? That should be my right as a player; half of my strat on playing split pushers like Illaoi is sitting on 3 wards every back or every other back because having that vision is crucial to my ability to succeed. It has more than enough opportunity cost that spending like this, even with Klepto+Future's Market, is setting my build behind considerably.

Why are you so adamant against letting me make strategic choices in what I buy?

26 Comments

Lipstick PigOct 31, 201814 votes

Most people play point and click shooter games.

Riot is just playing to the market.

When you see an enemy, whoever can react faster wins.

SwiftKitten88Nov 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=F33Der Pan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PHxET5p8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-31T20:14:39.725+0000)

Most people play point and click shooter games.

Riot is just playing to the market.

When you see an enemy, whoever can react faster wins.

i read that as "whoever lives closer to the server wins"

i swear thats Korea's biggest fucking advantage.. they play at 8 ms ping.

back when i first started playing when i had 30 ping because the servers were in LA, my very first 8 ranked games ever ( my promos) was an 8 game win streak.

i had never beat or even matched that since until nov 2016, when i moved to Michigan, i again had 30ms ping min until march of 2017 ( when i moved back to CA)

i not only was able to match that 8 game winstreak when i have NEVER managed to do even ONCE in the 4 years preceding since riots servers moved to chicago. but i matched it THREE TIMES and ONE of those 3 times i had actually DOUBLED IT to SIXTEEN straight wins.

as soon as i moved back to CA with 80 ping.. i have never come close again...

now this is stable ping... no lags issue. the only difference being ping...

now that's a PRETTY FUCKING HUGE difference in winrate. just by having lower ping.

that's my own personal experience and it really made me think... korea is likely only better because they have the lowest ping, and their used to PLAYING at that low ping...

maybe that's not all of the reason why.. but i guarantee it yous certainly a pretty massive part of it.

because i have played on 80 ms ping and 30 ms ping... and the difference was so astronomical, i was FREQUENTLY called a "scripter" when i lived in Michigan when playing at 30 ms. ( which i felt really proud of and took as a massive complement even though i know they meant it as an insult)

just because it was INSANELY easier to perfectly time things, such as Morgana W under them the exact instant my Q lands

Akali is SO HOTNov 1, 20188 votes

I rarely see people even buy 3 pink wards total in a game. This is only going to affect high elo where people actually buy pinks.

The thigh guyNov 1, 20187 votes

Because vision hard counters the assassin meta riot is forcing down our throats.

Crispy0SnakeNov 1, 20186 votes

If you look at pro support players in soloQ they are constantly getting 3 control wards (Look up any support champ in probuilds and look at how many they buy). It doesn't effect Bronze-Gold where you maybe buy 8 per game.

I really like this change because as a support you're constantly pressured to buy these things because the enemy support is buying them. This just shortens the amount of gold you need to exert vision pressure and makes you more selective in your placement of the control wards. You can only place one down at a time remember. This isn't a bad thing imo.

Crispy0SnakeNov 1, 20186 votes

But vision nerfs actively buff assassins and make them more snowbally so I hated the duskblade "one hit wards" change but I think this change is fine for the reasons I put.

IllabetheNov 1, 20181 votes

Depends on remainder gold when they recall. Generally, as a rule, they buy when they have 75G leftover at a recall purchase. But yeah.

They like to have a second ward, because if the primary ward is getting destroyed, they can just place one before it's destroyed and deprive the other team of gold from the one they thought they were killing.

Somebody Love MeNov 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

If you look at pro support players in soloQ they are constantly getting 3 control wards (Look up any support champ in probuilds and look at how many they buy). It doesn't effect Bronze-Gold where you maybe buy 8 per game.

I really like this change because as a support you're constantly pressured to buy these things because the enemy support is buying them. This just shortens the amount of gold you need to exert vision pressure and makes you more selective in your placement of the control wards. You can only place one down at a time remember. This isn't a bad thing imo.

8 per game total for the team lmfao people buy one control ward per game in that elo, just one for lane phase.

Even in diamond I barely see people buy control wards, even vs Evelynn who is hard countered by them

Crispy0SnakeNov 1, 20181 votes

I had emphasis on the "maybe", 8 is definitely an outlier, even for support mains. I mainly put that part there incase someone was like "It effects me, I buy lots of control wards in that elo!" When they buy a maximum of 8, on occaision

Corrupt BlissNov 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you look at pro support players in soloQ they are constantly getting 3 control wards (Look up any support champ in probuilds and look at how many they buy). It doesn't effect Bronze-Gold where you maybe buy 8 per game.

I really like this change because as a support you're constantly pressured to buy these things because the enemy support is buying them. This just shortens the amount of gold you need to exert vision pressure and makes you more selective in your placement of the control wards. You can only place one down at a time remember. This isn't a bad thing imo.

I think my biggest problem with the control ward change is how it affects supports. As you've mentioned, in higher elo play we tend to use control wards a lot, both as the ahead team and the behind team. Reducing the amount of wards we have forces more vision disparity between teams, requires supports to back more often thus missing the already needed XP and GP.

Now this isn't to say this change is beneficial or not, I just personally believe it will hurt supports a bit more than intended.

Bob the ToastrNov 1, 20181 votes

8 control wards per game in Bronze-Gold??? I didn't even start buying control wards on non-supports until I got out of Bronze and now that I'm gold I get maybe 3-4 a game lol.

Warlord RhinarkNov 1, 20184 votes

How many people do you see even carrying 3 Control Wards in their inventory at once, much less 2?

Moody PNov 1, 20186 votes

Me. That's why I'm posting about it.

Critmaster GarenNov 1, 20184 votes

i think its rather doing the opposite.

control wards dont just grant vision, but also deny it.

being able to only carry up to two means, a team thats ahead cant just load up on control wards and suffocate the opposing team of vision as easily. plus, i dont recall a lot of people carrying more than 1 control ward at a time for specific objectives anyways.

most of the time you just want to have one available to sweep the dragon or baron area. its been a long time that i saw someone actually load up on a stack of wards in the shop, instead of buying one for the occation.

since you can have only one control ward placed at a time, i dont think this reduced cap means a lot either, and is part of the reason why people dont load up on control wards anyways.

the regular item 3340 is more important for your own vision than control wards imo, and control wards are more of a tool to deny vision to the enemy team.

ez mental boomNov 1, 20183 votes

Vision makes pro play boring. Most changes to vision are aimed towards pro viewership

Pika FoxNov 1, 20183 votes

Vision is OP. Why do you think before supports got real gold income and wards were unrestricted supports were only allowed to buy wards?

Vision gets restricted because vision is too good in pro play. Its too good in general. ESPECIALLY control/pink wards/ward clearing tools.

GlaricionNov 1, 20181 votes

I'll always miss having 2 inventory slots open for wards and just lighting up half of the minimap all by myself...

0-S3 Never Forget

Jerry SeinfeIdNov 1, 20182 votes

remove wards.

aezensNov 1, 20181 votes

Ask your teamates to place wards... oh right there is no "ward please"-ping still. Guess you have to find a premate then.

They nerfed warding trinket as well ... guess I´ll hug the new plating tower next season then...

XL BENCH PRESSNov 1, 20181 votes

Then adapt Khazix your strategy. You can't expect to do the same thing patch after patch, season after season. That's why METAS exist.

ankoanko19Nov 1, 20181 votes

Isn't the point of this change to guarantee more vision for the losing team?

Excellent EraNov 1, 20181 votes

I want to be able to buy 800gp sightstone at 5 mins and buy green wards again ;/

FelixFurryNov 1, 20181 votes

What I'm seeing a lot from these replies is that "It only affects high ELO, low ELO don't use as many Control Wards so it shouldn't affect them at all."

Okay? That isn't the point. Regardless of what ELO a person is in, vision control is still vital to the game and each player has the right to use the 3 Control Wards given because it helps at all stages of the game. Just because someone in Diamond+ uses the 3 Control Ward slots and some people below that rank don't doesn't justify the reasoning behind the removal of vision potential. The only real reason that I can see here (personal insight incoming) is that the developers don't want as much vision contention during games at higher levels of play. They started showing that clearly when they removed wards from the jungle item line, which granted was a beneficial choice as time went on as we found ways to adapt to the lack of vision. But continuing to do that in different areas may lead to complex consequences.

An issue that arises from this is that because vision options are being taken away (even though it is only 1 ward slot), it still brings in the chance for a larger change and possibly riskier games. Remember that even the slightest change in the game can result in a huge difference over time.

These are just my thoughts. Take them as they are for consideration. Please don't be negative to one another in the forum as this should be a positive and constructive place. <3

MarkedOfKaneNov 2, 20181 votes

What about buffing stealth? Akali

ExtyLusNov 2, 20181 votes

Strongly in favor of nerfing vision. Go look at competitive play: way too much vision. People, if anything, DONT buy enough vision in solo q - even in high elo. At least, they don't do so if competitive vision is optimal.

ProffessorAutismNov 2, 20181 votes

Well how the fuck are you going to get bursted in 0.1 picoseconds for that sik play? Rmember,everione but burst players are jsut npc's that exist to be killed by said burst champions so KNOW YOUR PLACE "TANK"