Why is bot tower made of paper?

Valhalla Rising·Nov 14, 2016·44 votes·2,318 views

Get ganked bot, there goes first and second blood+assist gold, then 10 seconds later first tower blood.

This is like every fucking game it's getting really old and basically determines the outcome of the entire match in about 30 seconds.

% win after First Blood: Blue Team 60.3% Red Team 58.6%

% win after First Tower: Blue Team 72.1% Red Team 70.9%

and now thanks to bot towers being made of paper, those gold bonus's usually come from the same old abuse bot lane play back to back.

It makes no sense to me, if anything bot towers should be harder to kill than mid/top because it's almost always multiple people that will end up smashing it.

Way too punishing as well, if top or mid lose their tower they can still manage better than adc/support without their outter tower, especially supports.

27 Comments

SpecterVonBarenNov 14, 201619 votes

It's to prevent lane swaps in LCS matches by incentivizing them to not just trade the first tier towers in bot and top mechanically every game.

bro0rtegaNov 14, 201610 votes

Ya, it was so boring to see that in every pro game.

BardfulNov 15, 20161 votes

I wish they upped tower health to compensate this though for all towers. I have had to go with my carry into the jungle to help our jungler and within almost no time (We were in our own jungle dealing with an invade) the cait had our tower.

VoidStaresBackNov 14, 201611 votes

It's only flimsier during the first five minutes of the game, at which point fortification falls off of the other towers and they all have the same defenses, and if you get successfully ganked in the first five minutes you're pushing way too hard without wards (or playing against evelynn, but y'know). Even with the three people, it's unlikely that a pre-five gank will result in a lost tower, since their early-game damage is too low.

BlueBilberryNov 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's only flimsier during the first five minutes of the game, at which point fortification falls off of the other towers and they all have the same defenses, and if you get successfully ganked in the first five minutes you're pushing way too hard without wards (or playing against evelynn, but y'know). Even with the three people, it's unlikely that a pre-five gank will result in a lost tower, since their early-game damage is too low.

Exactly right.

manbearswineNov 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and if you get successfully ganked in the first five minutes you're pushing way too hard without wards

I have to disagree with that one, many meta junglers can put immense pressure on the game very early on.

DorkunedAurasNov 15, 20162 votes

It's not that the junglers can't gank at lvl 3, pre-5 minutes, it's that if you're open to ganks pre-5 minutes, you've already fucked up in lane.

manbearswineNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's not that the junglers can't gank at lvl 3, pre-5 minutes, it's that if you're open to ganks pre-5 minutes, you've already fucked up in lane.

What do you even mean by that? Do you imply that vision goes down later on with sightstone? Or that somehow the trinkets start to work differently?

The jungler is just having more issues to clear his jungler early on, leaving him less room to gank, but ganks from champions like lee/elise/hecarim/etc can be very effective very early on.

DorkunedAurasNov 16, 20161 votes

I'm saying that if you, as a laner, whatever lane that may be, are getting successfully ganked before 5 minutes, you're pushing too hard and essentially allowing them to gank.

manbearswineNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying that if you, as a laner, whatever lane that may be, are getting successfully ganked before 5 minutes, you're pushing too hard and essentially allowing them to gank.

And I'm telling you that that's just not true.

Weasel KenseiNov 14, 20166 votes

Yeah as a general stat Iv seen argued, but not by its legitimacy as much as how high, the team that wins bot lane wins the game 60% of the time.

Several factors dictate this:

Stronger ADC Stronger Support Access to Drakes Freedom to roam earlier, this in turn means more ganks and objective taking potential Weaker enemy ADC Weaker enemy Support More ingress/egress options for the enemy jg to be invaded. Pushing out a lane means its harder to get a minion wave to your towers to destroy them

All the advantages pile up fast. Not to mention the gold glut you listed OP the first blood, kill gold, 2 assist, tower first blood. Factor in 1 wave of minions also and thats about 1000 gold team advantage on a gank into a double kill/tower kill.

If that advantage is pressed well, the match is decided already... why play, just troll, your team wont ff may as well grief so you can move on to a match thats not over already... Im exaggerating, but its how some people feel and its due largely to how frail the towers are.

The Yetii RiderNov 14, 20163 votes

The change was to force 2v2 bot in the LCS, because Riot wanted the competitive game to more accurately reflect the game the player's experience.

RakvirNov 14, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAhVnET2,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-14T19:15:39.460+0000)

The change was to force 2v2 bot in the LCS, because Riot wanted the competitive game to more accurately reflect the game the player's experience.

Thank you!

^ This. Right here. LCS forcing changes when basically 99% of the player base doesn't play even remotely the same way because THEY have professional teams and pre-game strategies while we get random strangers half the time we wish we could smother in their sleep.

ph1234kNov 14, 20162 votes

People would just shift. That tower lacking defense is the reason we throw two champs into that lane. If top lane had the lower defense we would throw two champs into top instead of bot.

Valhalla RisingNov 14, 20162 votes

:P but 2 bot lane has been meta for like, ever? and the tower nerf was this season

Hauling AsheNov 14, 20162 votes

Actually, that's not true, because it was only recently that the fortification on bot tower was removed.

LXIINov 14, 20163 votes

But we could just... not have any towers be weaker?

xelakerNov 15, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAhVnET2,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-11-14T17:37:20.304+0000)

But we could just... not have any towers be weaker?

towers now work on the ward health system

R18Nov 14, 20162 votes

So we can have Vietnam flashbacks

MarshbouyNov 15, 20162 votes

% win after First Tower: Blue Team 72.1% Red Team 70.9%

correlation does not mean causation. Most of the time in the games i play, the team that loses the 1st tower loses it because either a lane got stomped or the enemy was well coordinated enough to roam and take the turret.

ZT XperimentorNov 14, 20161 votes

Just bottom tower?

ZepperNov 15, 20161 votes

I guess Riot could fix the gold advantage system so that those who don't get first tower have a chance to comeback. It'd be interesting to see if they actually plan on resolving this.

theArtifactsNov 15, 20161 votes

I like games to be about 20-30 minutes in length. The odd 40 min + game is fine but repeatedly and pushing the 60 minute mark occasionally gets draining. I don't have a problem with first turret falling as fast as it can.