As challenged, I have decided to make a changelist that would be better than current balance

AirKingNeo··4 votes·1,136 views

We, the players of League of Legends, seek to obtain a more perfect state of balance by reducing the late game power of marksmen, reduce the CC and tankiness of tanks, lowering the peel and impact of supports, increasing AP item diversity, rebalance the snowball between teams and individuals, increase the interest of the game with more incentive to make solo kills, and ensure the prosperity and end the bias against bruisers.

Players have the right to have a balance team who is free of bias, will use common sense, will not purposefully make classes imbalanced, and will not be ignorant towards the state of the game. The only bias a member of balance should have is the bias of balance. Balance members who blatantly do not meet these just standards should be removed as they are a direct contradiction to the concept of balance.

All changes will be considered what is major.

Marksmen: Currently Hypercarry Marksmen are dominating the game entirely due to the state of the meta. However, some Caster Marksmen are not without their problems. Marksmen overall have too powerful of a late game. All of this will be addressed. Twitch W stacks poison at half the rate it currently does. E base damage (not per stack) reduced by 0/5/10/15/20. Varus Passive attack speed reduced to 40% and 20% respectively (From 50%/25%), Q cooldown reduced by 4 seconds and is no longer reduced if you hit targets with Blight, and Q maximum AD ratio increased by 15%. Basically undoing unjust nerfs that were a product of the meta, while hitting his passive a bit to compensate. item 3031 Critical Damage boost reduced to +35%. item 1038 -5 AD, cost reduced by 150 (now 1150). To reduce snowballing in the bot lane. item 3508 AD reduced by 10 (now 60), CDR is now 20% immediately, and cost is reduced by 100 (to 3100). item 3087 Damage from passive reduced by 5-20. item 3094 Passive cannot co-exist with Stattik Shiv's passive. item 3046 Damage reduction reduced to 8%, Movement speed from passive reduced to 5% (10% overall, from 12%). item 3812 DoT Convert reduced to 20% of damage taken, -5 AD. item 3036 Bonus damage maximum reduced to +15% and health difference increased to 2000 health. (0.75% per 100 HP difference) item 3072 -5 AD (reducing bad powercreep buff) item 3153 Lifesteal increased to 15%, cost reduced by 100. (Just hold on). item 1055 Lifesteal removed. Replaced with +2 health onhit. [Warlord's Bloodlust] Healing increased to 5-45% AD (from 5-40% AD) [Lifesteal] Reduced by 30% for ranged champions. (Warlords is now 31.5% for ranged effectively.)

Tanks: Tanks in total are an issue due to a few items, while most are just issues based on kit. Mostly just CC. item 3076 Removed from the game. ADC lifestealing bullshit is dead now with reduced lifesteal effectiveness for ranged. Stop ruining bruisers. item 3075 See reason above. Also not interactive or good design. item 3193 Cost increased to 2800 gold, active bonus health when near 3 targets reduced to 80%, and all health gained is considered BASE Health. (This item practically dictates who is viable top lane, except Jax who can abuse Ardent with his passive.) item 3194 Damage reduction for repeated spells reduced to 15%; no longer effects attack modifiers. item 3800 Movement speed reduced to 55%, slow reduced to 55%. Chogath I think the Stoneplate change is enough. If not, -0/-15/-30 health per ultimate stack. Sejuani Passive bonus armor/MR ratios reduced to 60%. Slow immunity reduced to 70% slow resistance. E - Permafrost stun duration reduced to 1/1.15/1.3/1.45/1.6 Passive damage reduced to 7%/12%/17% max HP damage. Maokai Passive heal reduced by 2% at all ranks and changed to missing health. W - Twisted Advance root duration reduced to 1 second at all ranks. Base attack speed reduced to 0.0674 (from 0.0694); base AD per level reduced to 2 (from 3.3). Zac Can we just revert this rework? item 3068 Compensation time. Immolate damage changed to 15 + 1.5 per level, 150% increase vs minions and monsters. Radius increased to 360 from 325.

Supports: Purposefully powercreeped in an attempt to make the class more popular, Riot failed to realize the massive negative impact on the game this would have, such as giving AD carries too much protection on top of lifesteal. item 3301 item 3096 Gold generation decreased. item 3504 You know this was coming. You know had to do it. As nerf compensation for an unnecessary buff of heal/shield power, we must right these wrongs. AP reduced to 45 (from 60), Passive attack speed reduced to 15%, Passive Onhit damage reduced to 20 onhit damage. Passive is NO LONGER given to the user if they heal/shield an ally. item 3190 Shield reduced to 40 + 23 per level, health ratio removed. Melee only. You get Redemption, or Locket, not both. item 3107 Heal reduced to 30 + 15 per level, effected by heal/shield power twice as much (from thrice as much). item 3109 Heal based on partner/damage reduction reduced to 8%. Lulu Polymorph reduced to 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5. Shield increased by 10 at all ranks. Rakan Ultimate Charm duration reduced to 1 second at all ranks, but movement speed increased to 50%/55%/60% (from 50% at all ranks). E - Battle Dance shield increased by 15 at all ranks. Alistar Headbutt stun reduced to 0.5% seconds. Probably needs more. Nautilus W mana cost reduced by 10. E mana cost changed to 50/55/60/65/70.

Bruisers: A class the balance team has a blatant bias against. The creation of Bramble Vest and the abandonment of a class update has proven this, and without a public apology, we are left with no choice but to believe in what their actions say. Darius This guy has just seen so many unjust nerfs over the past year. I feel sad for him. Q now makes all targets gain full passive stacks if at least one target hit by it is at 5 stacks (already, or after the hit). Q handle hit increased to 45% of damage (from 35%, which was from 50%). Fiora Movement speed bonus from ultimate cut in half. W attack speed slow reduced to 35%, no longer can stun. Passive damage ratio reduced to 3.5% per 100 AD (from 4.5% per 100 AD). I hope this is enough. Kayn Early orb fill rate increased. Minor change for jungle, major for top lane. Urgot Counts as a melee champion. Can now buy Sterak's Gage and Titanic Hydra. Jayce Melee E mana cost increased to 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90. Melee Q mana cost increased to 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65. Base mana reduced by 50. Gnar Movement speed from W - Hyper reduced to 20% - 50%. W - Hyper percent HP damage reduced by 2% at all ranks. Rumble Base damage on Q reduced to 75 / 135 / 195 / 255 / 315. Riven Shield cooldown begins after the shield is broken or the effect ends. Base HP regen reduced by 1.00 (to 4.34, from 5.34). Ult damage reduced by 10-40 (remember, based on missing HP) at all ranks. Garen Q deals 5% max health physical damage and cannot be canceled during the attack animation. W cooldown reduced by 4 seconds at all ranks. Aatrox Rework down below Pantheon Q damage reduced by 10/15/20/25/30. Akali Passive heal cooldown increased to 12 to 6 seconds, bonus AD ratio reduced to 40% (from 60%). W - Twilight Shround duration reduced to 4 seconds; revealing when attacking increased to 0.75 seconds (from 0.65 seconds). item 3053 Cost reduced by 350 gold. Passive changed to proc at 400-1400 damage (from 400-1800 damage which means it never procs). 50% base AD is now a unique unnamed passive. item 3022 Melee only. Bye Kog'Maw item 3071 Armor reduction increased to 5% per stack (max 30%). Passive cannot coexist with Last Whisper (will cause the other to no work). item 3078 Cost reduced by 200. item 1043 Cost reduced by 100 (400 gold for 1% AS and 15 onhit damage? That not that great.) item 1419 Bloodrazor: Buildpath changed to Dagger + Recurve Bow + Smite Buff. item 3124 Time to return this guy back to the bruisers. Cost reduced by 200; initial AP reduced by 5, initial AD increased by 5. Attack speed per stack reduced to 5%; max stacks increased to 8; melees stack twice as fast. Guinsoo's Rage changed to 5 (+15% bAD)(+7.5% AP) magic damage onhit in an AoE (from Phantom Hit). item 3111 Tenacity increased by 5% (to 35%). item 3047 Armor reduced to 25. Preemptive nerf. [Tenacity] Now reduces displacements.

Assassins: This class is more effected by the state of other classes than it's own, thus this list will be very short. Khazix Q Isolation bonus damage reduced to 50%; cooldown refund reduced to 50%. R invisibility reduced to 1.25 seconds, Bush invis reduced to 2.5. item 3147 Blackout Passive removed. Nightstalker passive now has a 30 second cooldown.

Mages: So a lot of people think mage items need changing. I agree, Morello is pretty broken and a few items suck. item 3165 AP reduced by 20. item 3802 Cost increased by 200. item 3027 +5 AP per stack (from +4 AP, max 110 AP). item 3010 This, and all upgrades, passive reverted to Valor's Reward. item 3285 -200 cost. Amp tome added to build path for smoothness. item 3116 +100 HP, +5 AP, build path changed to Amp Tome + Blasting Wand + Giant's Belt, cost increased to 3100 gold. item 3030 Another Amp Tome added to the build path for smoothness. item 3089 -10 AP, -400 cost. item 3191 AP is no longer gained by stacking, AP increased by 10. item 3152 +10 AP, +200 cost, Amp Tome added to build path for smoothness. item 3070 I'll fix this another day. This is getting too long for me. Cassiopeia Q AP ratio reduced to 60%; base damage reduced by 10 at all ranks. E AP ratio reduced to 45%. Orianna W AP ratio reduced by 10%; base damage reduced by 10 at all ranks. E bonus resistances reduced to 15 at all ranks. Syndra Q AP ratio reduced by 10%. Base damage per sphere deduced by 10 at all ranks.

The Map, Game Mechanics, and Objectives: This is more of a challenge, but also quite simple. Only context you really need to know is that a kill with an assist gives 300 gold to the killer (normally) and 50 gold to ever person who gets an assist, making solo kills give less team gold. Also note shut gold begins at 2 kills. [Jungle Catchup XP] Changed to 45 XP per jungle camp per level difference from 30 XP per monster per level difference. [Mountain Dragon] Bonus damage vs objectives reduced to 8%/16%/24%. [Infernal Dragon] Increases damage by 6%/12%/18% from 8%/16%/24% Bonus AD/AP. [Baron Nashor] Health increased to 7000, health per minute (from game start) increased by 20. [Outer Turrets] Health increased by 300. Fortification increased to 8 minutes and returns to Bot Lane Outer Turret. Fortification, while active, increases reduction by 5% for every nearby enemy champion beyond the first. [Inner Turrets] Health increased by 400. Gain 10% bonus armor pen every attack while "heating up" to a max of 40% bonus armor pen. [Inhibitor/Nexus Turrets] Laser beam returns. Gains 200 Health. [Hand of Baron] AKA, Baron Buff. Empowered recall removed (and therefore no extra movement speed). Taking Baron is now a risk and no longer completely negates splitpushing punishment. [Crest of Insight] AKA, Blue Buff. Gives 2 AP per level again. [Kill Gold Rework] Kills now give 325 Gold. This gold value is reduced by 50 for each person who assists on that kill (and the assiter gains that 50 gold instead). [Bounty Gold] Now begins after a player has gained 3 kills, rather than 1. Bounty is 35 for 3 kill targets, 50 for 4 kill targets, and 65 for 5+ kill targets. (35/50/65 per member on the team.)

Aatrox Aatrox Rework: This challenge always wanted me to do a rework, so I will.

  • Passive - Blood Well: Now split into 8 bars worth 12.5% of the bloodwell (max 100%). Drain 1/8th of Blood Well for every second while out of combat. At maximum Blood Well, Blood Well will turn Hellbent and rapidly drain 1/8th per second, refreshing when entering combat with champions, turrets, and monsters, and grant Aatrox 25% base AD and 35/45/55/65% (1/6/11/16) attack speed. Taking fatal while Blood Well is Hellbent, Aatrox will revive over the next 3 seconds recovering 30/35/40/45% (1/6/11/16) maximum health and removing all debuffs. Upon revive, Aatrox's Blood Well will be full. Then Aatrox's revive is put on a 170/155/130/100 second cooldown.

  • Q - Dark Flight: Aatrox jumps up and slams down on a target area dealing 10 / 35 / 60 / 95 / 120 (+ 105% tAD), knocking up all units within it's epicenter. Aatrox is immune to displacements and polymorphs during Dark Flight. Dark Flight fills Blood Well by 2 bars. 11-9 second cooldown.

  • W - Blood Cleave: Passive: Aatrox's abilities (including Blood Cleave the the basic attack with it) gain 30/35/40/45/50% armor pen. Active: Aatrox's next basic attack slashes all nearby targets dealing 35 / 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 (+50% tAD) and healing for 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+30% tAD) (+7% missing health). Resets Aatrox's basic attack timer, applies two stacks of Black Cleaver if you strike a champion with the basic attack, gains +50 range like most modified attacks, and fills 2 bars of Blood Well. 6-3 second cooldown.

  • E - Blades of Torment: Same thing, but is wider, starts from behind Aatrox, will always hit targets in between the blades of energy, slow increased by 5% at all ranks, and allied minions struck by the waves of energy gain 5/10/15/20/25% attack speed and movement speed. Fills 2 bars of Blood Well. Same Cooldown.

  • R - Massacre: Aatrox draws in the blood of his foes, dealing 200 / 325 / 450 (+50% tAD) physical damage to all nearby enemies, granting Aatrox 50/60/70% attack speed and all allied units 25/30/35% attack speed and increasing Aatrox's attack range to 375 for 12 seconds. Damage radius increased, buff radius is the same as the new damage radius. Using Massacre increases Blood Well by 2 bars plus 1 bar for each enemy champion damaged. 100 / 85 / 70 Cooldown.

Makes Aatrox a commander of war, but of minions, while also keeping his identity as a splitpusher. Also insures Aatrox has an anti-tank mechanic, finally.


The challenge was simply make a better patch note than what the balance team has been doing. I could have easily just down some Ardent nerf and it would arguably be an easy victory, but why stop and not give the effort?

71 Comments

Better Jungler8 votes

There was never a "Challenge" you came into my post and babbled about some complex Riot scheme to lie to everyone. You said "Its easy to balance the game. I have the Ego and Motivation!" Then spouted some nonsense about "Challenge me I dare you" like some form of YuGiOh character. Then you made this post like its some major accomplishment. Despite half of these changes being the same stuff you spam on the boards over the last few months.

Overall you have the mindset of make everything do less damage, and making items protect less too. Essentially changing next to nothing. I wont read through half of what you posted on champs, ill just look at the champs I know fairly well.

Kha zix isolated q is +50% damage already.

Bruisers: A class the balance team has a blatant bias against. The creation of Bramble Vest and the abandonment of a class update has proven this, and without a public apology, we are left with no choice but to believe in what their actions say. (good thing theres no bias on the "balance team") Then you go on to buff the hypercarry bruisers while simultaenously nerfing the rest of the classes. How do you think thats going to play out?

  • This guy has just seen so many unjust nerfs over the past year. I feel sad for him. Q now makes all targets gain full passive stacks if at least one target hit by it is at 5 stacks (already, or after the hit). Q handle hit increased to 45% of damage (from 35%, which was from 50%).

Fiora- Movement speed bonus from ultimate cut in half. W attack speed slow reduced to 35%, no longer can stun. Passive damage ratio reduced to 3.5% per 100 AD (from 4.5% per 100 AD). I hope this is enough-

You're destroying fioras kit, and giving her nothing in return, a total nerf, you're giving darius all TARGETS ALL passive stacks? thats insane, he would literally be making the enemy team bleed over 1700 total combined over 5 seconds. (thats if he goes off tank build)

Urgot: Now considered a melee champ ?!? he shoots shit, how is that melee? Unless you plan on making the whole champ actually do melee attacks. (thus shortening his attack range, making him more susceptible to ganks.

Maokai Passive heal reduced by 2% at all ranks and changed to missing health. W - Twisted Advance root duration reduced to 1 second at all ranks. Base attack speed reduced to 0.0674 (from 0.0694); base AD per level reduced to 2 (from 3.3)

You're telling me you want Maokai to attack ONE time very .06 seconds? You know thats is ONE auto attack every 11 seconds? nice patch notes

Empowered recall from baron taken away is another horrible idea. You make a risky call going to get baron if the enemy is up, and if you secure the baron without them interrupting you in time, you deserve that prize for risking it. We've seen professional games where they make a bad baron call and get aced, THEN the enemy gets baron. The empowered recall is one of the main reasons League of Legends isnt a "Sit and turtle" game like OW.

Seekers armguard, huh strange you're going to get rid of the stacking mechanism, but then give it +10 ap starting. That means as soon as someone gets this *EXTREMELY cheap item, they will be getting 30 ap and 30 armor.

Camping Bot Lane3 votes

lost it at yugioh character.[sg-miss-fortune]

Kloqdq3 votes

"You activated my Trap Card! Logic!"

AirKingNeo1 votes

There was never a "Challenge" you came into my post and babbled about some complex Riot scheme to lie to everyone.

Doesn't matter. You accepted it.

I have the Ego and Motivation

I means I have self-based determination. Figure it out.

Despite half of these changes being the same stuff you spam on the boards over the last few months.

WOW, IT IS ALMOST AS IF THE SAME PROBLEMS ARE PERSISTING AND RIOT IS BEING IGNORANT (top lane) OR ACTUALLY REFUSING TO CHANGE THEM (supports and adcs)! I am shocked that someone would repeat the same issue existing because that issue was never solved!

Overall you have the mindset of make everything do less damage, and making items protect less too. Essentially changing next to nothing.

Last I checked, it means classes who are caught in the middle, like Assassins and Bruisers, are viable and balanceable. I guess you forget how that works.

Then you go on to buff the hypercarry bruisers while simultaenously nerfing the rest of the classes. How do you think thats going to play out?

Wow, it is almost as if almost all bruiser suck because every class has been powercreeped up while Riot blatantly ignore them. Plus I did not buff hypercarry bruisers. I nerfed Fiora; I nerfed Riven; I nerfed Death's Dance; I made Darius not complete shit; I nerfed broken anti-bruisers (reverted Jayce actually); All that was buffed was poor items. If they're a bit too strong, nerf them. I don't care; make the game balanced is my aim.

Fiora- Movement speed bonus from ultimate cut in half. W attack speed slow reduced to 35%, no longer can stun. Passive damage ratio reduced to 3.5% per 100 AD (from 4.5% per 100 AD). I hope this is enough-

Really? Keeping massively scaling True Damage, removing extra CC from her W, and lowering the attack speed slow, and also making her R vitals not give the next one entirely free is bad? Yasuo gets a windwall and that doesn't CC. Riven's shield doesn't CC. Kayle's W doesn't CC. None of the skirmisher's defensive abilities give hard CC but Fiora. I do not see how this runes her kit when all it does is stop her from being a lane bully. She gets buffed into actual play by changing map mechanics to make splitpusher, her job, not suck.

Urgot: Now considered a melee champ ?!? he shoots shit, how is that melee? Unless you plan on making the whole champ actually do melee attacks. (thus shortening his attack range, making him more susceptible to ganks.

Lore has no baring on balance. He needs Sterak's and he already sucks so give him Titanic Hydra so he's got some kind of waveclear niche/doesn't have to burn his entire passive to waveclear.

You're telling me you want Maokai to attack ONE time very .06 seconds? You know thats is ONE auto attack every 11 seconds? nice patch notes

Maybe you don't know how base attack speed works, but it means that your AS per level and all AS you build becomes less efficient. For comparison, Maokai's base AD and base AS are both higher than Jax's. Why does tank get better offensive stats than a fighter. I don't know, but I do know tanks shouldn't be strong in the laning phase because they already outscale with teamfighting ability.

Empowered recall from baron taken away is another horrible idea. You make a risky call going to get baron if the enemy is up, and if you secure the baron without them interrupting you in time, you deserve that prize for risking it.

The prize is empowered minions. Not "well the enemy is splitpushing, time to get 5 free extra seconds plus however much time this massive MS buff gives me to stop him." Baron should be a risk and it shouldn't 100% invalidate splitpushing and the punishment splitpushing gives.

Seekers armguard, huh strange you're going to get rid of the stacking mechanism, but then give it +10 ap starting. That means as soon as someone gets this *EXTREMELY cheap item, they will be getting 30 ap and 30 armor.

You get net 5 less AP. It's effectively making it a better laning phase item, not that it should be entirely, but it shouldn't suck so much either.


So do explain how this worse than any of the patches over the past 2 years? Or is fixing most issues with the game bad?

Better Jungler2 votes

Look at the feedback you've received on this post.

Also, urgots basic attaacks being ranged is what makes him a "ranged champ" not his lore.

Maokai attacking at .06 makes him do ONE auto every 11 SECONDS. I think you meant .60 attack speed.

You're incredibly difficult to talk to, because I'm honestly not sure how you can believe what you say.. it's honestly baffling to me that you are serious about this. I promise, this will be The last message you receive from me. The feedback from the boards has shown you're all talk, and have no idea how to balance a game.

Motivation and Ego does not equal knowledge and ability.

Kloqdq6 votes

That opening is meme worthy.

Twitch and Varus are bad changes and don't solve anything. Why even hit Varus? He is fine the way he is. Twitch nerf doesn't even fix the main issue being his stealth/assassin nature mixed with his ultra powerful ultimate. He does too much and it's because of these two aspects.

Increase crit items by 200 gold. The items are all amazing but criminally cheap. Why they got better but also got a cost reduction is beyond me. No reason to just hard nerf them all.

Your nerf to lifesteal won't solve the issue and frankly just make it a worthless stat for anything ranged. 20% lifesteal, the average, is now only 14% on ranged. Why would I spend the gold on that? Also Runes are legit swapping in a couple of weeks so I don't see any point in Warlords here dude. Beside, I would say anyone melee who is a problem with lifesteal is still going to be a god.

Bramble Vest removed? Oh good, really happy my only way to counter champions like Fiora is completely gone now. Guess I'll just go kill myself in preparation of this. Bramble Vest exists for a reason. It is just heavily overtuned, which is why it is getting nerfs to be less cost effective.

Gut Maokai and Sej, nice. Maybe you should consider how they are going to be still viable.

Gut random supports and don't properly fix them? Hellz ya.

Buff Darius and make him a problem for low elo again? How about ya solve that problem eh. Oh that's right, you just are going to blindly buff him. He needs work but that should be in defining his skill. You just made the dude god tier with that Q change alone.

Fiora is gutted? Hellz ya

Kayn is randomly buffed when he is already fine? Sure?

Urgot changes that don't fix his problems and will just create more? Sure.

Nerf Jayce, Gnar, Rumble and Riven. Okay I can get behind the Jayce and Gnar nerfs to a degree but Rumble and Riven? Really dude? Hell that Riven change doesn't fix the issues.

Hard buffs to Garen why?

Barker nerfs? Sure I guess? He is annoying but I don't really see it.

Guts Akali? I am seeing a trend here.

Gage ultra buffed making it broken/ Okay lol.

Uhhh this item is worthless expect for like 3 champions and is a horrible design. Frankly it should be removed in favour of just using Iceray thing in new Runes, which is just a healthy Frozen Mallet.

BC was nerfed for a reason.

Tri is perfect as is. Why the random buff?

Rageblade needs work. This isn't the fix.

None of those AP changes fix the issue. Like actually none of them solve the core issues with the items themselves, nor the champions you nerfed.

I really stopped caring about these changes. Some of the map stuff is alright but a lot of shitty ones like the Baron recall or the jungle exp.

Aatrox rework is terrible. Doesn't make him any better to play and makes him a broken mess because he is just passively getting 50% armor pen. This isn't a good design AT ALL. My champion is just by default better than your champion.

Overall you don't solve any issues. You just nerfs things or gut them and leave them in a shitty spot. Hell you are now just getting brand new OPs and back to square one. You didn't make the game any better with any of these changes.

EDIT I also want to add this point but when you are making balance changes, you need to explain your reasoning why you are doing what you are doing. If you want to nerf a certain way of playing and put power into what you think is the intended way to play that champion, you need explain that. Why are you buffing Tri? I actually have no idea why you are doing that. Why are you doing these nerfs or random buffs? You don't give a reason why you want to buff or nerf these champion and I have no way to even argue against them and try to understand your point. They just look bad and give no reason.

Say I want to nerf Ekko and his waveclear. So I hit his Q by only dealing 75% to minions. But then I increase the movespeed boost on his Passive. Why did I do that? I want Ekko to be aggressive in lane and be willing to make harder trades with people. The move speed buff on passive gives him a better chance to get out upon making a successful trade while decreasing his damage to minions means if he wants to find success in lane, he has to duel out his enemies.

There is a reason and logic behind my changes and I explain what I am trying to do so people can understand it. What you did was list changes and explained nothing. Thus I cannot properly understand what the hell you are trying to do other than from your meme opening, which doesn't explain half the changes to their fullest.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Actually the main issue with Twitch is how good his laning phase is, plus the overall nerf to ADC items SHOULD (hopefully) put him in line. He's supposed to be a late game carry, so I'm keeping him mostly as one.

Varus change is a net buff. Small lost of passive attack speed for his Q being reverted to prenerf.

Crit items get a late game nerf because increasing costs brings us back to the same issue. ADCs feel like shit before their spike and ADCs feel shitty to play against once they do. I'm evening the curve. Also they don't need 30% CDR in 1 item.

Just an idea on lifesteal, but this changelist was purposely intended not to mind new runes since no information on them.

Nerf Fiora then or lifesteal in general. Bramble doesn't need to exist.

Maokai will still work with his massive Q base damage, W target root, and his ult. Sej might need some of her passive damage back.

Gotta get supports to a clean slate first before we make changes or else old problems will still exist without being fixed.

All I did was revert a bugfix that caused him to have a huge drop in winrate (like 2.5-3% I think) plus a revert to his very unneeded Q nerf (mostly). Who cares about low elo?

Kayn change only effects top lane. Should get jungle his form the same rate, though feel more filled slightly early on.

Not sure how making Urgot have Sterak's again while giving him a waveclear option is bad. Not like he bought hurricane.

Rumble is a powerful anti-bruiser that also has access to Doran's Shield, the item that was made to stop stupidity like him. Riven's E change at least stops her "cc cc shield can't ever get a chance to damage me" spam.

Garen sucks. Who cares about low elo.

No champion should cheese auto win the lane, like Akali.

Then I guess buff Mallet so it's a decent item for melees.

Cleaver didn't need the nerf and realizing it now. Plus now ADCs can't stack it with LW at least.

Trinity costs too much. Every class shouldn't get price reductions but bruisers.

Sterak's is literally as bad as the previous patch because of a massive 600 price hike. You know how 200-400 effected ADCs, now imagine 600.

Rageblade is technically a revert. It gives it Gunblade synergy back and also makes it effective when you're not forced to stack damage.

Change the armor pen to 65% bonus then. Point is: He has an anti-tank effect.

Jungle change and baron change the best parts. Getting a lead as a jungler matters. Splitpushing isn't negated by taking baron anymore.

Really? How I see it, I nerfed everything down a huge notch and then made the weakest class slightly better. After all, tanks, supports, and ADCs needed the nerfs.


Most changes explains themselves. "This is broken" "This is weak" "Class needs a buff" "Powershift, overall buff/nerf" and "solves an issue that is made more complex by X".

Opening was to be fun. Don't take it seriously.

Kai Guy2 votes

hey mate, here is a list of rune related information you might enjoy, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17l9iGZS9tk7r4H2JsB_ya1qIcE_RskT5-hcYSave2g0/edit You can thank the guys from Surrender at 20 for it. I'm not sold on removing thorn mail but a rework on it is fine. I think its good to have an item that punishes folks for not considering balanced damage types in their team comps, plus you never even asked if Rammus was ok with it. Also a majority of players care about low elo its where most the player base lives. You need to keep in mind that riot juggles balance for all elos if you wish to comment on how they balance their game.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Buff rammus if he'd suck.

The list isn't absolute.

Kloqdq1 votes

The problem is when you massively nerf every class that is strong and don't consider the other classes, you are just going to create new OPs.

What Bramble Vest is gone and we buffed every melee carry option? Guess what; we are back to season 6 top lane and that wasn't fun for anyone in top.

Nerfed every adc and crit item? Guess what, we are back to lethality or black cleaver being OP and early game marksmen winning the game.

What we just randomly gutted these champions because they are strong and didn't consider anything else in the game? Welp, now they are worthless and we just get new OPs.

Your changes didn't solve any problems. It just took them out back, broke their legs and left them out to die and let new, and often worse effects come in.

Consider the whole game when you make balance. You can make comments on a single item, class, champion, etc. but when you go to make a change, you need to think how it will effect everything.


Change the armor pen to 65% bonus then. Point is: He has an anti-tank effect.

Like right here. Why. Why does Aatrox need an anti-tank effect? Why is it he needs one? No like seriously, why. I cannot think for a reason why this is needed nor why it is healthy for him. Do you even stop for a second to consider, hey, maybe at 65% armor pen he is going to basically do true damage? Hey maybe, this is broken.

That is the same with a lot of these changes. They have no thought for anything other than the item or champion in question and don't consider how it will massively destroy the rest of the game.


Going back to my last point. I cannot understand why you want to do these changes. Nor can I purposely understand what is your intended aim. What is your goal with 90% of these changes. Why does this change;

item 3078 Cost reduced by 200.

need to be made? Do you want to buff Tri users? Why reduce it by 200 Gold? What is the intended goal you want to aim for with this change?

In all of your changes, you never once properly explain your reasoning and I can't argue with any of it properly. You want to nerf Pantheon's Q damage by 10-50 damage. But why. I shouldn't have to look into it myself and find an answer for you.

I shouldn't be doing your job for you.

I can imagine maybe a couple of these changes working, but they have no thought or time put into them. You just picked things you believe are OP or busted, through nerfs on them, buffed things you like and called it a day.

None of this is good.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I did consider the other classes. Hence why I didn't touch assassins because they would be decent/good once everything that stopped making them bad was out of the way. Bruisers actually need the help.

I intend to make Trinity users be able to spike quicker due to such an insane cost of 3733.

Pantheon's Q being nerfed is because Pantheon is too strong, holding about a 54% winrate into top 10 challenger.

I cannot understand why you want to do these changes.

Here's the reason in simple then: Nerf overpowered classes while giving minor buffs to the weakest class in order to achieve a state in which the game is mostly balanced. Not every change is completely absolute.

Kloqdq1 votes

You clearly didn't consider everything. I think that much is very obvious to anyone who happens to view this post.

Nerf overpowered classes while giving minor buffs to the weakest class in order to achieve a state in which the game is mostly balanced

This is easier said than done and you clearly didn't achieve that. You didn't actually nerf the classes that are strong, just a couple champions in that group. Then you buffed only a couple champions in the "weakest" group. You clearly didn't remember the game has 140 champions that all have a delicate state of balance and something as dumb as 25 HP on hit could break an item and generally a whole class/meta.

Your changes are drastic, not effective and would be a waste of time and resources while not achieving the intended purpose of the champions or items.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I thought I considered everything. For one person, I'd say I did above the standard.

You didn't actually nerf the classes that are strong, just a couple champions in that group.

WHAT? Ok, hold on man. I know you want to bash on me, but if you're gonna say this, at least read the damned post. Entire classes are nerfed when you hit their items, so allow me to repeat:

Infinity Edge Crit Damage reduced to +35%. Essence Reaver turned into mid game item with less CDR and less AD. Lifesteal MASSIVELY reduced for ranged. LDR nerfed greatly.

Bramble and Thornmail removed. Stoneplate nerfed.

Every major support item--Ardent, KV, Locket, Redemption--nerfed greatly.

while not achieving the intended purpose of the champions or items.

not sure where this point is going, but maybe some classes do their job too well.

Kloqdq1 votes

Infinity Edge Crit Damage reduced to +35%. Essence Reaver turned into mid game item with less CDR and less AD. Lifesteal MASSIVELY reduced for ranged. LDR nerfed greatly.

Bramble and Thornmail removed. Stoneplate nerfed.

Every major support item--Ardent, KV, Locket, Redemption--nerfed greatly.

And something else will come in and be equally toxic and broken. That is the problem here. You just butchered ADCs, Support and Tanks because you don't like them, then buffed others unnecessarily, forgot to hit other issues like Tank Supports who don't need the items, didn't even adjust the supports in general so we'll just go back to tanks being supports again. You gut out Crit marksman so we'll just get lethality, utility marksmans coming up strong again. You also made every fighter better by default, which doesn't consider the rest of the game.

Hell you made Darius and Aatrox broken as fuck. Darius will legit be a god tier champion now because he can just 5 stack someone (not hard) then flash Q to pretty much blow everyone up in a second. Aatrox is now the strongest top laner because he is way better at sustaining but he also deals basically true damage to people.

You did not consider anything other than things you don't like. That doesn't solve the problem. It creates new ones which you didn't consider. These changes are a meme and you should feel bad for even trying to suggest them as an improvement.

AirKingNeo1 votes

That's actually not that huge of a hit against ADCs. Tanks got Sunfire compensation buffs; they are not gutted at all. Supports, while it seems like they got heavy nerfs is just doing the exact opposite of Riot purposefully overbuffing. If it's too much, slightly buff them. Idea counts more than the wrong number.

Darius will legit be a god tier champion now because he can just 5 stack someone (not hard) then flash Q to pretty much blow everyone up in a second.

No? This is a revert to a bugfix. Darius's winrate was still below 50% BEFORE THIS BUG WAS EVEN FIXED. This bug has existed for quite a long time too.

Aatrox is now the strongest top laner because he is way better at sustaining but he also deals basically true damage to people.

"Better at sustaining" but his sustain has a cooldown now rather than 3 attacks. "Deals true damage" but actually just has the same armor pen passive Darius's W has.

You did not consider anything other than things you don't like.

??? I kept assassins alone because I thought they were doing fine, but Duskblade was making Kha broken due to his R resetting it and Jhin abusing it. Kha was nerfed because he was already broken before the Hypercarry Meta and before neo Duskblade.

I buffed shitty bruiser items because they were shit, then buffed Darius, Urgot, and Garen. Revert Trinity's buff if it's too much. Who cares?

That doesn't solve the problem.

Yep, I didn't solve ADCs dealing too much damage, tanks being able to win lane with Bramble and force AP DPS users to be forcefully broken, and didn't stop supports from making people unkillable or having their items used by tanks. I also didn't make assassins or bruisers viable at all. I didn't solve kill gold making competitive boring and making ganks > solo kills. I didn't solve jungle leads being useless, nor did I solve splitpushing being 100% negated by taking Baron.

Wait, yes I did.

It creates new ones which you didn't consider.

You mean that maybe a class could be slightly out of line and that's it? IS SLIGHTLY, COMPARED TO THE SHIT WE HAVE NOW WHERE TANKS AND SUPPORTS ARE SO HIGH UP MOST OTHER CLASSES CAN'T EVEN SEE THEM, WORSE THAN MY LIST?

These changes are a meme and you should feel bad for even trying to suggest them as an improvement.

Then please give real feedback and tell me how I should revise the list. Saying things like, "I think X-change make might Y a little bit too underpowered/overpowered." or "I don't think X should have Y." Then again, you tried to argue that buffing Garen, one of the worst fucking champions, is bad. You said giving Rageblade back to the melee champions is bad. I am not sure how to respond to that given that it is completely wrong or bias.

Kloqdq1 votes

If you honestly believe these changes are good and you don't see any problem, than I can't help you. Not wasting my time on this headache like last time.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Nerfing the overpowered

Buffing the weak

That's bad?

Kloqdq1 votes

I just realized you only removed bramble vest but you kept this item 3033 and this item 3165 with no change what so ever.

You do realize Bramble Vest is needed for more than just marksmen right? There is a LOT of champions that desire grievous wounds like when you go up against Kayn, Swain, Maokai, Mundo, Darius, Aatrox, etc. Is the item overly efficient at the moment? Yes it is. But you remove this one item, fucking over many tanks/fighters that would actually like this item, without touching the other grievous wounds within the game.

Please understand what you are doing.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Because neither of those two items allow a class to auto win laning phase vs the class who could beat them early game.

Kayn, Swain, Mundo, and Darius don't need to auto attack so Bramble is worthless against them.

I nerfed Maokai's healing.

Aatrox sucks right now because of Bramble and would still suck even if it didn't exist.

NO FIGHTER LIKES THIS ITEM; IT'S THE NUMBER ONE ANTI FIGHTER ITEM THAT BROKE TOP LANE!

Kloqdq1 votes

Because it was over tuned. Not because it is inherently broken. The item was way to cheap and now that is getting fixed. It needs to exists because the champions that do sustain heavily will still auto-attack.

If you honestly believe any of those champions don't need to auto attack than you just further proved my point.

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop trying to act like you know how to balance and like you could fix every problem right away. You seriously have no clue about anything involved with balancing and the numerous layers that goes into it. You are just making a fool of yourself and I have had enough of this worth arguing.

Nothing I say gets through to you. It is a waste of my time to try and talk sense into you.

AirKingNeo1 votes

It needs to exists because the champions that do sustain heavily will still auto-attack.

SO THE ENTIRE BRUISER CLASS WHICH HAS BEEN BALANCED AROUND AUTO ATTACKING TO PROC TIAMAT AND HEALING ON MOSTLY MODIFIED AUTO ATTACKS FOR THE LAST 4 SEASONS?

YOU MEAN MAKING AN ITEM THAT LITERALLY NEGATES THE STRENGTHS AND IDENTITY OF THE CLASS THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BEAT YOU EARLY GAME MIGHT BE OVERPOWERED?

You don't know what you are talking about. Please stop trying to act like you know how to balance and like you could fix every problem right away. You seriously have no clue about anything involved with balancing and the numerous layers that goes into it. You are just making a fool of yourself and I have had enough of this worth arguing.

Again, I've worked in balance before.

Worked to make a banlist for a dead card game named Kaijudo. Why? Because cards that literally have effects that prevent the opponent from playing is terrible. (Infernus the Awakened) Cards that are luck based with insane reward are also terrible. (Bottle of Wishes, though was already banned)

Even now, working to draft list of changes for either a long AR/Gecko code for Sonic Riders or a ROM Hack of it (preferably the later). Obviously going to have the best players we, our group, have to test it and probably make 2 more drafts afterwards. (Making Super Sonic not shit, giving an identity to boards that lack them/copy something another does.)

As always, I always take every factor into account.

Kloqdq1 votes

You have proven you have not numerous times within this post. Elo, Items, Classes, Champions, Abilities, Objectives, Maps. There is thousands of factors to consider and just because you helped balanced a card game, which operates very differently from League, doesn't mean you suddenly know how to balance this game.

You don't know. You are ignore to the game as a whole and would sooner have this game butchered than fixed. Your changes forget numerous aspects of the game and every single time I point out a flaw, an error, you ignore it and keep sucking your own dick on how great you are.

I will not have any further part of this massive waste of time and energy. Your changes are terrible, your reasoning is weak and flawed, and you have not once proven anything. I suggest you remove this post because obviously a majority of people agree with me. You are a petty individual who did this list of out spite and I am not having this anymore.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

That's actually not that huge of a hit against ADCs. Tanks got Sunfire compensation buffs; they are not gutted at all. Supports, while it seems like they got heavy nerfs is just doing the exact opposite of Riot purposefully overbuffing. If it's too much, slightly buff them. Idea counts more than the wrong number.

Yes, because Sunfire buffs will definitely make up for every other tank item being reduced and then you nerfing the actual compensation item, Stoneplate.

No? This is a revert to a bugfix. Darius's winrate was still below 50% BEFORE THIS BUG WAS EVEN FIXED. This bug has existed for quite a long time too.

Key word there: bugfix. It was something that shouldn’t have happened and something deemed unhealthy.

"Better at sustaining" but his sustain has a cooldown now rather than 3 attacks. "Deals true damage" but actually just has the same armor pen passive Darius's W has.

I see how much you know about Darius..armor pen is on his E, not W. It’s also capped at 35%, not 50%. For the record, Yasuo’s 50% bonus armor pen buff from ulting was considered unhealthy to where he can only use it when he crits. And you just want to give to Aatrox on all his abilities.

I buffed shitty bruiser items because they were shit, then buffed Darius, Urgot, and Garen. Revert Trinity's buff if it's too much. Who cares?

Buffed them in ways they don’t need? What good does %max HP damage on Garen Q fo? Why does Urgot care about being melee other than the sterak’s change? Why does Darius need to be able to land max stacks on all targets with Q just by making sure one is already at 4 stacks?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Yes, because Sunfire buffs will definitely make up for every other tank item being reduced and then you nerfing the actual compensation item, Stoneplate.

It's supposed to be a net nerf.

Key word there: bugfix. It was something that shouldn’t have happened and something deemed unhealthy.

>Implying healthy things aren't bugfixed

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

It's supposed to be a net nerf.

Tank items themselves were nerfed enough. Why do you think support items were so valued? The selfish tank items of Sunfire, Randuin’s, Frozen Heart were nerfed and the power funneled into Stoneplate. In contrast, the tank support items of Knight’s Vow and Locket were low cost but better or equivalent stats, which further exasperated the issue of tanks buying them.

>Implying healthy things aren't bugfixed

If it was healthy and could properly be balanced around, it’d stay, like Riven’s aa cancelling or Azir’s shuffle. Darius instantly getting 5 stacks on several targets just cause he nicked one that had 4 would result in nerfs elsewhere because not only did that deal a lot of damage up front, it maxed out his ult on all that were hit, just cause one was at 4 stacks. It was a bug that simply was not healthy and had to go

AirKingNeo1 votes

Omen was buffed. I'm near reverting Sunfire. Frozen Heart wasn't touched.

Stoneplate is infinitely more broken than any of this. Locket and KV is a sign support items are overtunned, which, shocker, Riot did on purpose.

Can you seriously not see how broken tanks are right now, or are you unironically implying tanks are weak?

it’d stay, like Riven’s aa cancelling or Azir’s shuffle.

Two examples of unhealthy interactions left in the game.

Shockingly a bug that stayed for more than a year and is what made Darius viable and was perfectly fine.

Iota Theta2 votes

{quoted}

Omen was buffed. I'm near reverting Sunfire. Frozen Heart wasn't touched.

Stoneplate is infinitely more broken than any of this. Locket and KV is a sign support items are overtunned, which, shocker, Riot did on purpose.

Can you seriously not see how broken tanks are right now, or are you unironically implying tanks are weak?

You’re right, FH wasn’t nerfed recently other than cost changes and an armor reduction from 95 to 90 around the juggernaut time.

The slow and crit reduction were all that was buff on Omen, but it lost 150 HP and the slow lasts less. It only recently regained 50 more health, but it still took an overall heavy hit from the loss of health and became niche against crits, similar to Thorn vs sustain, which actually was also nerfed and the only reason it’s decent is because of Grevious Wounds, which only applies on autos. Abilities don’t proc it. But it’s armor was reduced, it gained 250 health, but it’s damage went way down to compensate for GW. The issue isn’t Thorn itself, it’s GW if anything, but that’s the only answer to healing/sustain, so until that gets redone, it stays.

How exactly is Stoneplate broken? Pure armor and MR for stats, which increase when near 3+ enemies, the health bonus is 40% unless surrounded by 3+ enemies, in which case it’s 100%, but then reduces damage done by 60% for the duration of the active.

There are only two issues with it, one is it doesn’t reduce true damage, thus Cho’gath, but that’s more an issue with the coding of the damage type. The other issue is the locket synergy, but it’s a viable strategy for tanks and tank supports. If a tank decides to run that combo, he first loses on overall health since he is investing in two pure resistance items with no health, but they both need health to work. second, the key to working around that is disengaging when they’re popped. Not always possible, but at that point you should’ve known it could happen. Splitpushing is also an answer if you have a carry top, since that tank won’t be able to really stop you.

Three tanks are broken, not the class. I no longer count Cho as a real tank. Maokai, Sej, and Gragas are the top three. If anything, hit them, because the rest of the tanks suffered after the update.

Two examples of unhealthy interactions left in the game.

Shockingly a bug that stayed for more than a year and is what made Darius viable and was perfectly fine.

That’s what made him viable? Not his bully power? Not his straight up juggernaut-ness?

He carries a 49.7 winrate in diamond+ across all regions with a 5% pickrate, higher than he has in any other elo. So what is viable to you for him? 55% winrate? Morde is the only Juggernaut to have a higher winrate than Darius at that level.

Riven and Azir have both been or are currently being balanced around their mechanics, both of which actually takes skill to use. Have you seen a person attempt those mechanics early on? It’s hilarious. But Darius hits a person 4 times, then hits that target and others with Q and gets a massive spike in damage output for little effort. What part of that is actually healthy? Hmm?

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Going back to my last point. I cannot understand why you want to do these changes. Nor can I purposely understand what is your intended aim. What is your goal with 90% of these changes. Why does this change;

[Trinity Force] Cost reduced by 200.

need to be made? Do you want to buff Tri users? Why reduce it by 200 Gold? What is the intended goal you want to aim for with this change?

From what I’ve seen, he just wants the bruisers to be the OP class. Bruisers in all lanes!

Sarcasm aside, very well put. Most of these changes seem bruiser biased.

My example: The Varus change makes little sense. Does he want him back to lethality stacking poker like Jayce?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Bruisers won't be broken. They're already below the bar.

No bruiser bias. Perfect balance means bad classes get buffed.

Varus used to be a mid laner. No shit he's gonna get that option back.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Bruisers won't be broken. They're already below the bar.

No bruiser bias. Perfect balance means bad classes get buffed.

Varus used to be a mid laner. No shit he's gonna get that option back.

You have a bruiser bias, you just deny it. Everyone else sees it though.

He’ll get mid lane back..at the cost of what allowed him to be bot lane

AirKingNeo1 votes

If I have a bruiser bias, then do please prove so.

-5% AS on his passive and -10% AS on passive if kill isn't going to make his bot lane shit, especially if his Q can be maxed again. Did you not think that through at all?

Iota Theta1 votes

The Aatrox changes for one. Trinity buffs, Cleavee buffs when it was nerfed for a good reason. Nerfs to everything anti-bruiser (champs and items, like Rumble, Grar, and Jayce, who is actully half bruiser in design). Erroneous changes like Urgot being considered melee when he shoots a gun just so he can use Sterak’s and Titanic Hydra, which would eliminate the window of power aspect of playing around his shotgun knees, or Garen getting %max HP on his Q, which doesn’t even solve any of his realproblems (like I said with Ornn, more damage is not always the answer).

As for Varus, that’s his only attack speed steroid. Other champs have actual attack speed buffs that are stronger than the base values of his passive, and he only gets it on kill, assist, or cs (for a lesser value). He won’t destroy his botlane, but he’ll probably go back to lethality since he will be using Q more frequently, which works a but better for him in midlane.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Aatrox sucks. Shocker, buffs. Trinity costs too much. Cleaver wasn't nerfed for a good reason. Anti-bruiser champions are degenerate because they offer no counterplay or gameplay; that's not even a bruiser bias that's just a design idea that you shouldn't auto win laning phase.

Urgot and Garen suck. Bad champions get buffed.

5% AS loss isn't making him weaker with a Q buff. Varus would only build Lethality if the meta had him, but fortunately, we aren't in that meta nor does my changes make it that kind.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox sucks. Shocker, buffs. Trinity costs too much. Cleaver wasn't nerfed for a good reason. Anti-bruiser champions are degenerate because they offer no counterplay or gameplay; that's not even a bruiser bias that's just a design idea that you shouldn't auto win laning phase.

Urgot and Garen suck. Bad champions get buffed.

5% AS loss isn't making him weaker with a Q buff. Varus would only build Lethality if the meta had him, but fortunately, we aren't in that meta nor does my changes make it that kind.

Aatrox getting 50% armor pen? That’s just wrong. The only other champ that has similar is Yasuo, but it’s only for a short time after he ults, it’s %bonus armor pen, and only on crits. Your design is a balance nightmare.

Your Urgot buff makes 0 sense from a design perspective. Oh hey, this champ shoots a gun, from range...but he’s melee. It makes no sense.

Garen’s buff is just needless damage. He deals a decent chunk of damagw, but that’s not what makes him terrible in the higher ranks. It’s how easy he is to peel off, which, dun dun dunnn...is the intended weakness of Juggernauts.

Anti-bruisers have more counterplay than some bruisers. Can’t do much about autos for some, but Gnar has his rage bar he has to keep an eye on, Jayce is mana hungry, and Rumble has to manage his heat properly.

Darius’s counterplay? Don’t get near him. Morde’s? Same. Jax? Can’t dodge his autos and he can gap close decently, trundle, same and just chews tanks up.

Varus built lethalityy because he could use it well with his Q poke. The attack speed buffs along with BotRK changes are what pushed him to be an auto attacker. If his poke is low Cd again, he’ll just build lethality and poke the enemies down from long range and make things easier for himself.

AirKingNeo1 votes

It's 50% pen on abilities only. Could easily lower that to 35%. Not sure why you care so much about numbers when you can reduce them.

Really? "Urgot buff makes perfect sense. He used to build Sterak's and we took it off him for no reason. He also sucks and his waveclear is shit. What if we gave him back Sterak's and gave him Hydra? So he's similar to every other bruiser."

Gee, why do you think I gave his W -4 seconds cooldown at all ranks?

Anti-bruisers have more counterplay? HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED THE SAME FUCKING GAME AS ME? Gnar perma kites you or goes into a form where he beats you in a melee duel. Jayce goes melee if he takes damage to reduce it and can full combo you at level 3. Rumble LITERALLY JUST AFK PUSHES THE WAVE.

Darius's counterplay is to dodge his Q. Morde is a poor design who doesn't really count, but for the sake of argument, you just simply wait to easily outscale his 0 utility.

Varus lethality was a super niche pick that was removed due to the meta being shitty rather than the champion being overpowered.

Kloqdq1 votes

Sterak was changed to prevent champions like Kalista from using it. You do realize Black Cleaver was also changed for similar reasons right? Other champions were abusing it and thus some like Sterak being melee only was done to buff it for the champions that needed it while preventing it from being abused by someone like Kalista.

Urgot in turn is gaining net buffs out of the this as a trade off which is good.

AirKingNeo1 votes

WHY WOULD AN ADC BUY AN ITEM THAT HAS A SHIELD THAT SCALES WITH BONUS HEALTH??

Literally make Cleaver, LIKE IN POST, not be able to co-exist on the same build as Last Whisper. Shocker, bruisers didn't need a random nerf.

Urgot needed those buffs anyway. Should have been hotfixes. He's still gonna fucking suck.

Kloqdq2 votes

Thank you for seeing reason here! It's a sigh of relief compared to what AirKing keeps trying to argue with me. I just gave up trying to speak reason to him lol

AirKingNeo1 votes

You literally keep saying nonsense and try to argue it as true.

Winterwings5 votes

item 3193 Cost increased to 2800 gold, active bonus health when near 3 targets reduced to 80%, and all health gained is considered BASE Health. (This item practically dictates who is viable top lane, except Jax who can abuse Ardent with his passive.)

What the actual have i just read?... Jax can abuse Ardent with his passive??? Unless you take Stoneborn Pact (At which point you already gimped yourself super hard in the top lane matchup) i don see this ever happening lul...

item 3301 item 3096 Gold generation decreased.

Probably the only change i'll agree with, but without any numbers i'm not going to jump the gun yet...

item 3504 You know this was coming. You know had to do it. As nerf compensation for an unnecessary buff of heal/shield power, we must right these wrongs. AP reduced to 45 (from 60), Passive attack speed reduced to 15%, Passive Onhit damage reduced to 20 onhit damage. Passive is NO LONGER given to the user if they heal/shield an ally.

So you're basically reverting it to the "complete joke item" status it had on launch... Lul nice balancing bruh, with those stats and those numbers NOBODY would spend 2300 gold for this petty excuse of a item... I get it, you hate how Ardent is dominating the meta atm, but you're simply going one step too far here...

item 3190 Shield reduced to 40 + 23 per level, health ratio removed. Melee only. You get Redemption, or Locket, not both.

Someone already pointed out how wrong this approach is... You're basically screwing Rakan and Thresh over MASSIVELY by doing this... Restricting build versatility is NOT the way to go to make supports more enjoyable to play as/with/against.

item 3107 Heal reduced to 30 + 15 per level, effected by heal/shield power twice as much (from thrice as much).

Oh yeah, let's double nerf a scaling support item AFTER already cucking Ardent Censer, instead of actually looking over the problems with Enchanters as a class and fixing them (archaic kits, lackluster interaction)... Cos that will totally work and make them a balanced class...

AirKingNeo1 votes

Jax is meta right now because his allies can give him Ardent Censer's effect, which works well since his passive gives a lot of attack speed.

Maybe I could keep 15 AP on ardent, realistically it's just losing a ton of it's onhit strength. Probably like -5 or -10 AP. The item is too effective at making ADCs hit late game at 2 items.

Forgot about that. Just make Rakan and Thresh considered melee. Nerf Thresh's CC if that SOMEHOW makes him too good.

Redemption (and Locket) are very broken right now. It really does need nerfs, and I hope you know that. Currently their items are too strong, hence nerfing the items. If it's too hard, buff it little; the idea matters more.

Winterwings2 votes

Jax is meta right now because his allies can give him Ardent Censer's effect, which works well since his passive gives a lot of attack speed.

Okay, then that was a wording misinterpretation... Still don't see that many Jaxes tho...

Maybe I could keep 15 AP on ardent, realistically it's just losing a ton of it's onhit strength. Probably like -5 or -10 AP. The item is too effective at making ADCs hit late game at 2 items.

Do you even hear yourself here...? "...making ADCs hit late game at 2 items" - Does this really sound like a Ardent issue or a ADC itemization issue? Cos to me it sounds like the later which Ardent only further pronounces...

Forgot about that. Just make Rakan and Thresh considered melee. Nerf Thresh's CC if that SOMEHOW makes him too good.

I don't see how making Thresh melee would make him too good (I mean he is already kinda "too good" but it's a older CertainlyT champ, what do you expect?), aside of the increased gold from bandit and better synergy with Relic line

Redemption (and Locket) are very broken right now. It really does need nerfs, and I hope you know that. Currently their items are too strong, hence nerfing the items. If it's too hard, buff it little; the idea matters more.

Redemption and Locket are "scaling" support items... SCALING. ITEMS. on support role... a role which is usually supposed to rely on strong early base values and their general utility for usefulness. You dont wanna first buy Redemption, and in the same vein Locket, simply due to their scaling nature... Remember, preseason is getting rid of Windspeakers which is gonna take a fair "oomph" out of Redemption, as well as giving tank supports some "competitive ground" with the Enchanters current power so i'd wait for preseason dust to settle down first before passing down any judgement on the current state of some items

AirKingNeo1 votes

Clearly it's an ardent issue. The amount of stats, and therefore gold value, in those stats ardent gives is too much.

Again, could just nerf Thresh then.

Redemption still scales with heal/shield power well and scales with level. Locket scales with level, like it used to. The reasoning for Locket is to prevent non-supports from abusing it, which is a very fair choice since you realize this change.

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

"Darius This guy has just seen so many unjust nerfs over the past year. I feel sad for him. Q now makes all targets gain full passive stacks if at least one target hit by it is at 5 stacks (already, or after the hit). Q handle hit increased to 45% of damage (from 35%, which was from 50%).

"Garen Q deals 5% max health physical damage and cannot be canceled during the attack animation. W cooldown reduced by 4 seconds at all ranks.

"item 3071 Armor reduction increased to 5% per stack (max 30%).

[sg-lux-2]

V The Support V2 votes

#RunesReforged

AirKingNeo1 votes

Yeah, this was intended to not care about that simply due to the lack of information.

Kloqdq2 votes

It is all up online and fairly easy to find if you took two seconds.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Do you know how much testing I'd still have to do to get remotely accurate data to work with?

I'd rather not nor have the counter argument about lack of data on new 'runes'.

Kloqdq3 votes

Yeah. That's what it takes to do balance.

Doozku2 votes

As a bruiser main, the only one here with a bias for bruisers is you. I mean Kayn buffs? wtf?

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