PBE changes.... Did you really just makes pulls even MORE unattractive for laners??

Kowe The Ewok··33 votes·2,491 views

Jungle camps spawn at 2.00 instead of 1.55. This doesn't sound like much on paper, but in practise that means if your laner helps you he WILL loose CS.

Great, now there will be even more laners who tell my to go screw myself when I ask for some help at level 1... At the sam time you managed to reduce the amounf of viable junglers even more since there are champions which can't jungle without pull. Picking these in soloQ where even on Gold I Elo you often don't get a pull this is just a complete death sentence.

Wait... I nearly forgot something..

YOU FREAKING INCREASED THE HEALTH OF ALL CAMPS AND BUFFED WOLF MOVEMENTSPEED?????????????????????????????????????????????

Gosh, that's usually not me writing in all shift. But as somebody who used to like jungling this simply is beyond my comprehension. It feels like you want to kick junglers in the nuts and congratz, you're doing a good job at that.

Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/12/1215-pbe-update.html#more

31 Comments

Sire Hippington14 votes

two charges on smite means you can smite the first two camps, not only one, +machete damage was buffed. The idea is that jungler should not requier and also not get a leash, nor should laners do a junglercamp befor going to lane. If u look at high elo, no one gives a leash to the jungler already, but botlane takes a camp befor going to lane.

not saying the jungle is perfectly fine on PBE, but not having a leash is a good thing. The sustain/damage of the jungleitems however should scale better into mid/late, especially for tanks, and most tanky junglers need some buffs like bonus damage to mosters on a skill(like the resent shy change) or some damage mitigation vs mosters(like adding to Sejus passive 'reduce damage taken from mosters by x). There are already alot junglers working without leash, only tank-junglers still suffer. Simply buffing the junglers in generall would just return the lee+kah gank 'n farm meta...

Arveanor1 votes

Leave my poor 'zix out of this..

But yeah I agree with everything you are saying, +1

L7xLoTek1 votes

Hang on, wouldn't the two-smite solution be a significant buff to all champs that happily go from krugs to red to whatever, as opposed to those that go gromp to blue simply due to the life gain as opposed to the mana gain?

Dar Raksada2 votes

{quoted}

Hang on, wouldn't the two-smite solution be a significant buff to all champs that happily go from krugs to red to whatever, as opposed to those that go gromp to blue simply due to the life gain as opposed to the mana gain?

This is what I was thinking at first too, but because of the charge system smite should be up again when you get to red, provided you can clear your way there there's no big difference (aside from slightly easier counterjungling)

L7xLoTek2 votes

Ah, right, it starts charging the moment you smite (= start of the first camp). I still do feel like this is going to make Krugs, Red, Gank middle a much more common and reasonable play for those who already benefitted from that start, which is definitely not tanks.

Leti the Yeti7 votes

riot logic buff gold from machete, nerf gold gain from camps buff damage from machete, buff jungle creep health

I think Junglers are becoming the Meg's of the team once had a duo top cuz no one wanted to jungle

EffectFX10 votes

The gold changes were to make poaching camps less attractive. They're buffing the gold gain on machete again by the way.

The health changes + time changes are directed at stopping players from cheesing by doing early camps. Like Sion taking damage from turrets and suciding to monsters to get level 2 or a buff. Or heimer/shaco (yes lane shaco happens occasionally) using turrets to clear a camp.

Smite is also getting changes.

It's preseason, the jungle isn't going to be optimized immediately. But it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

Doctrorpheus1 votes

{quoted}

The gold changes were to make poaching camps less attractive. They're buffing the gold gain on machete again by the way.

The health changes + time changes are directed at stopping players from cheesing by doing early camps. Like Sion taking damage from turrets and suciding to monsters to get level 2 or a buff. Or heimer/shaco (yes lane shaco happens occasionally) using turrets to clear a camp.

Smite is also getting changes.

It's preseason, the jungle isn't going to be optimized immediately. But it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

People will poach the camps no matter what.

flibitydoo3 votes

Yeah and with these changes they are going to take more damage and waste more time trying to clear them. They're also going to get less gold for doing so.

Arveanor2 votes

That's simply a false statement.

EffectFX2 votes

Maybe in the late game, but it should happen a great deal less during the early and mid game, especially camps like wolves/raptors.

ofart4 votes

I love these changes and if you think about it more than a few seconds, you will too. Consider smite charges too.

Kalgash3 votes

The heal from machete needs to be higher. damage can be fixed with runes/masterys, but Selfhealing you either go 11 into utility, or you waste two+ quints slots on lifesteal, slowing your clear speed and making your ganks that much worse.

Edit: Feast is a bad joke. just remove that worthless mastery and give back lifesteal

Kuroi866 votes

It needs to be buffed to a % instead of a flat amount.

Durzaka3 votes

welp, mid and top can never help leash for the jungler again.

Those extra 5 seconds makes it impossible to get to lane to the first creep of xp. And that is a pretty big deal.

MattAkhavan2 votes

I have solo cleared the jungle on champs that normally fair very poorly in the new jungle by changing my masteries a up a little. I can clear the whole jungle twice as sejuani before having the back so i dont think this will hurt too much for me at least.

Kuroi862 votes

Yus! Hecarim BUFF!

Edbwn1 votes

I FEEL YA THERE, BRO

Saianna2 votes
ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

Hey just going to through something out there, something that is written with a bold "warning" at the top of the page you linked:

Warning: PBE Content is tentative and iterative - what you see may not reflect what eventually gets pushed to live servers! Manage your expectations accordingly. )

If something is on the PBE, that doesn't mean it's going to live. Also, read the section on the jungle changes in today's post. They clear up a few things.

Here's Fearless with a few comments on all the recent jungle changes that have been going on and off the PBE over the last several updates: "Hey all, Way over due on this. As you've all noticed, we've been trying some very quick iteration cycles on the jungle camps to reduce the benefit of bot lanes poaching jungle camps at level one. The two iterations that were tested on PBE were Krug and Gromp having their own buffs until smote, and after that, a buff to the base stats of the camps, with machete buffed to compensate. The results of our testing in both cases led us to believe that the impact on the jungler from these changes was much too high, and in the second set of changes, might not have even pushed the lanes away from the level one poaching. The end result is that we aren't happy with the solutions so far, but we've been really happy to throw changes at PBE at a rapid clip, and be able to get your reactions and play testing. It's been incredibly useful for us to work at this pace and get the very quick feedback. Mainly wanted to do this post to say we're likely to keep this up for this project, as well as others in the future. Thanks everyone for the testing time and the thoughtful feedback!" He continued: "Generally looking to not do anything too heavy handed. One of the reasons we keep having similar issues with poaching is because we do very specific, heavy handed changes, and when we have to fix another part of the game that changes some of the details, very specific fixes break down. We're currently wondering if the cost of leaving the lane alone is just too low. Making the cost of poaching higher seems to be misguided, as we've never really been able to fix poaching this way before, we've just made it impossible (by making the camps spawn so late its not an option). We're almost out of time this year, so there's not likely going to be any more changes going to the PBE in 2014, but we'll continue to test some options internally. The explorations for now will likely be seeing if we can make the cost of leaving the lane higher if the other lane takes action, to offer more counter-play to poaching."

Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/12/1216-pbe-update.html#more

jackspades1 votes

With two charges of smite, can't you smite the same camp twice?

RisenDarkKnight2 votes

there is a 15 second cooldown right now so no unless you clear really slowly

Dr Clueless PhD5 votes

Or use the second charge on the second camp you go to. Your first camp is going to go slower, but the ability to Smite the second one should more than make up for it.

Edit: I may actually be misinformed about the timing on Smite charges. Until further notice, disregard this post.

Yfrappefort1 votes

This will hurt my Nautilus first clear a lot, as a few hits on my first camp was really helping...

HeadHonchkrow1 votes

Shaco needs no leash! But seriously, I have no idea what Rito is doing with the jungle. However you CAN smite two camps for your first camp...

Bresn1 votes

Btw +5 armor on Evelynn was dumb considering nobody could jungle with her before the new jungle came or whatever pathetic buff Rito gave her.

Bresn1 votes

Btw +5 armor on Evelynn was dumb considering nobody could jungle with her before the new jungle came or whatever pathetic buff Rito gave her.

junglerboy161 votes

They were trying an experiment to prevent laners from stealing camps at level one for the xp, just like with the temporary smite charge idea and the gromp and krug's having their own smite buffs. They said that they are using the PBE to do a bunch of smaller scale tests instead of pushing out final ideas all the time (Finally, this is something that should have been happening for a long time. GJ Rito!).

Arveanor1 votes

Obviously the 5 second delayed spawn has some potentially horrid repercussions.

That being said, they also increased the damage of machete in addition to the health of all camps. Without doing the math, based on riot's more recent anti-lane poaching chanegs, I assume it evens out, and is meant ot make the jungle less enticing for your laners to steal.

So while I'm happy to see you pointing out things you dont like (im not happy if that 5 second spawn thing goes through, unless they make leashes unnecessary, which would be awesome), but be careful you don't just start tossing stuff on there unfairly.

The Ellimiist1 votes

To be fair as a mid player im already annoyed when these low tier junglers need a leash and I have to miss half of the first wave and play the "constantly a level behind for half of a wave".

Lost R1 votes

I always leash my jungler for as long as possible if they're on my side of the map. Unless I happen to be Darius. If I hang around too long, I might accidentally steal the buff.

More from Gameplay

More by Kowe The Ewok