Fizz is so busted

GripaAviara·Jul 28, 2018·46 votes·14,831 views

How a super mobile assasin like him is allowed to deal so much damage and still be super safe. With zhony he literary has 5 dashes in a row and the most stupid thing about him, he needs to land just one + Q to instakill anyone not going full tank, making it less skillful than 90% of the champion pool simply because of how he dishes out so much damage without doing nothing and being super safe.

Weren't assassins the staple of high-risk high reward plays where you needed skill to actually kill someone and being hard to actually destroy turrest with them? Wasn't that the whole logic? Now our dear freakign Fizz can solo splitpush a lane without problems, assassinating towers almost as fast as full build ADCs

64 Comments

VelvetCrotchJul 28, 201823 votes

Fizz was always dumb and always NEVER a fair champ. I demand Riot since Season...5 or 6 to change his god damn E. And his ult Hitbox is as toxic as Gragas E

GabresolJul 28, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Fizz was always dumb and always NEVER a fair champ. I demand Riot since Season...5 or 6 to change his god damn E. And his ult Hitbox is as toxic as Gragas E

his ult hit-bix is as dumb as nautilus hook. It is not as long as it looks like, but wider as it looks like

CppLJul 28, 201811 votes

ohh dont worry dude ,hes getting buff next patch.And yes ,its the damage buff.

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

[deleted]

RyzeTheSmurfMageJul 29, 20181 votes

Fizz v2 is that you?

AirKingNeoJul 29, 20181 votes

idk but people are anti-fact

Fízz v2Jul 28, 20188 votes

I think the problem was that your Vlad counters Fizz, yet he died to Fizz at minute 5, minute 8, minute 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 15. And thats how he got fed lul.

TheKingOfBichesJul 28, 20185 votes

The op is complaining about fizz while playing fucking Vladimir? Vlad counters fizz and vlad is cancer design.

GripaAviaraJul 28, 20182 votes

No, i didn't and don't know to play Vlad

Crescent DuskJul 29, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-28T09:41:59.810+0000)

I think the problem was that your Vlad counters Fizz, yet he died to Fizz at minute 5, minute 8, minute 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 15. And thats how he got fed lul.

Vlad doesn't counter Fizz until both have ults. By lv2-5 Fizz totally dominates the trades, especially if he knows how to use minions to bodyblock Vlad's E.

Even by lv6 Vlad's cd's without items are still too long and his sustained damage sucks ass.If Fizz dodges the E with troll pole and only goes in when emp Q is down, he can chunk vlad and then finish him off in another rotation when his troll pole is back up.

wildfox99Jul 28, 20187 votes

don't worry,riot got it

next patch he's getting a massive buff

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/07/725-pbe-update-more-tentative-balance.html

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Jinzo TorranceJul 28, 20181 votes

https://www.op.gg/champion/ziggs/statistics/mid

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

yeah ziggs could use buffs

wildfox99Jul 28, 20184 votes

first off win rate doesn't make a champion strong or weak,second they just changed his W mechanic and so his playstyle,let people get used to it before doing such a massive buff on his ult and W,not to mention his counters are in meta right now so ofc he's having hard times

and even if he would be weak,the buff is still too big

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20182 votes

low pickrate, low winrate

Yeah, that's a HUGE FUCKING SIGN that a champion is weak.

Again, there is no evidence so say Fizz is overpowered.

wildfox99Jul 28, 20181 votes

5% is not low,he was used to have a really low play rate before he bacame top tier,he got nerfed and the ones that were playing him because he was broken left him

winrate instead doesn't mean anything (that's why some champion are balanced st 48% and others at 52%),especially after a big change like a mini rework for the reasons i told before

there is no evedince he needs such a big buff,they should at least see how things go in the next patch before that

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

uhh yeah, champions with higher pickrates tend to be more broken

but fizz's pickrate isn't high, nor is his winrate, so he isn't broken.

Fizz wasn't even strong before the W change.

Crescent DuskJul 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

low pickrate, low winrate

Yeah, that's a HUGE FUCKING SIGN that a champion is weak.

Again, there is no evidence so say Fizz is overpowered.

You mean like Vladimir having a 47-48% win rate being weak despite the fact he sees plenty of top play? Let's not talk about Ryze.

AirKingNeoJul 29, 20181 votes

where's fizz's competitive play and top play in like 3 roles like vlad?

Crescent DuskJul 29, 20182 votes

In the same place as every other assassin. Which is an assassin specific problem and not a Fizz problem because in competitive you actually have a working frontline and support that are not vegetables.

I still have fun on my Talon in soloQ because the amount of teams with intelligent peels or rakan looking out for me are still few.

RyzeTheSmurfMageJul 29, 20181 votes

Ryze needs experience and skill to be strong with him tbh. Unlike Fizz who misses his ult but it still attaches to you cause broken hitbox or infinity dashes and invulerability during a dash.

Crescent DuskJul 29, 20181 votes

Well, that's an assassin vs. mage distinction because whereas mages are about skill shots, assassins have to bother with other skills like when to enter a teamfight and not be blown up to pieces by the rakan/alistair/lulu,morgana peel and 2 shot by a Darius or Camille on top of the mage and ADC's damage.

There's a reason you don't see assassins in organized play. Their laning is mostly strong (Lux, Anivia, Karma, Oriana, Azir still do really well against all assassins except Zed) but their teamfight is total garbage so once the teams tarts grouping you become useless thanks to all the CC and frontline shutting you down, especially when teams have competent supports and jg who ward the jungle so you just can't come through a jungle flank in the middle of a teamfight.

HideSideNov 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=0005000000010000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-29T21:22:12.494+0000)

Well, that's an assassin vs. mage distinction because whereas mages are about skill shots, assassins have to bother with other skills like when to enter a teamfight and not be blown up to pieces by the rakan/alistair/lulu,morgana peel and 2 shot by a Darius or Camille on top of the mage and ADC's damage.

There's a reason you don't see assassins in organized play. Their laning is mostly strong (Lux, Anivia, Karma, Oriana, Azir still do really well against all assassins except Zed) but their teamfight is total garbage so once the teams tarts grouping you become useless thanks to all the CC and frontline shutting you down, especially when teams have competent supports and jg who ward the jungle so you just can't come through a jungle flank in the middle of a teamfight.

And this is at what fizz excels, he is only assassin without weaknesses which is for assassins specific. Its almost impossible to peel against him and he doesn't have problem to fight whole enemy team head on due to his R-E its so unfair mechanics without real counterplay even in theory... Really, he can lose only in surprise fight, in normal one, its the same as if u fought melee whose stats are close to infinity since fizz is literally invulnerable with guaranteed first hit in ,,first hit wins" situations due to his absurd amount of dmg in late, when others are also usually dmg dealers and when even some juggernauts aren't tanky enough and what does it matter whether he has this or this CD when u already dead. No one gives a sh;t about CDs out of combat ( and he is also only assassin with so big aoe dmg)...

Crescent DuskNov 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And this is at what fizz excels, he is only assassin without weaknesses which is for assassins specific. Its almost impossible to peel against him and he doesn't have problem to fight whole enemy team head on due to his R-E its so unfair mechanics without real counterplay even in theory... Really, he can lose only in surprise fight, in normal one, its the same as if u fought melee whose stats are close to infinity since fizz is literally invulnerable with guaranteed first hit in ,,first hit wins" situations due to his absurd amount of dmg in late, when others are also usually dmg dealers and when even some juggernauts aren't tanky enough and what does it matter whether he has this or this CD when u already dead. No one gives a sh;t about CDs out of combat ( and he is also only assassin with so big aoe dmg)...

Fizz's laning is horrendously weak against most artillery mages pre-6. You can also pick Kassadin or Vladimir and it's an autowin. In teamfights he can't reliably land a long distance shark on key targets, and if he uses his dash and pole to close distance he can't get right back out so at best he trades 1 for 1.

Look at the last worlds. Nothing but mages and even Tristana mid. The only assassin that featured is Qiyana and it's precisely because her ult makes her useful in teamfights.

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=000500000001000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-17T04:15:27.324+0000)

Fizz's laning is horrendously weak against most artillery mages pre-6. You can also pick Kassadin or Vladimir and it's an autowin. In teamfights he can't reliably land a long distance shark on key targets, and if he uses his dash and pole to close distance he can't get right back out so at best he trades 1 for 1.

Look at the last worlds. Nothing but mages and even Tristana mid. The only assassin that featured is Qiyana and it's precisely because her ult makes her useful in teamfights.

In LCS, he isn't picked rather because artillery and mages have better map control than him than him being weak in lane. And he doesn't have to land shark on key targets nor it is so hard to land a long distance shark, especially in jungle team fights and when u are not alone in your team, playing 1v5, and even so, if you are ahead enough then you, as fizz, are the same 1v5 team wide area nuke champ like vlad but with engage and better burst instead of sustain.

Crescent DuskNov 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In LCS, he isn't picked rather because artillery and mages have better map control than him than him being weak in lane. And he doesn't have to land shark on key targets nor it is so hard to land a long distance shark, especially in jungle team fights and when u are not alone in your team, playing 1v5, and even so, if you are ahead enough then you, as fizz, are the same 1v5 team wide area nuke champ like vlad but with engage and better burst instead of sustain.

He's extremely abusable in lane. And map control is not why he doesn't get picked. In LCS, junglers are on another level of coordination with their laners, making it rather difficult for most assassins to even make it out of the laning phase due to the inherent safety of artillery mages in mid lane (most of the time they're seconds away from their turret and can assist jungle ganks far more safely with less risks from a countergank than assassins can).

Artillery mages also are supremely better in teamfights than most assassins. The only assassins who have seen play are Akali and Qiyana, one due to her immense built in safety kit to allow her to survive the avalanche of tank support and jungle CC spam before being vaporized by the enemy ADC+top+mid lane, and the other because an aoe knockback+stun ult more than makes up for picks that most other assassins lack.

In general, people moan about assassins only because most of solo Q doesn't even pick tank supports and tank/bruiser junglers. The moment there is a Rakan/Alistair/Blitz and a Sejuani/Skarner/Nunu/Ivern/warwick/volibear/Vi in the jungle assassins completely fall apart because it only takes a 1.5 sec CC to die and the fact they nerfed night's edge only makes this worse as the only other item is Mercurial Scimitar, and QSS is massively overpriced and sets you so far behind in power spike before you can ever be a threat again.

We are at a point where a Catilyn/Kai'sa even in mid game is putting out the same damage I am as a blue Kayn and is capable of 1v1'ing me. That's how much damage the class you're supposed to counter is doing, let alone the enemy top and mid lane.

There is no reason to play assassins because currently if an ADC gets to 5 kills in their lane they're just a ranged assassin with all the perks and way better teamfighting and sieging objectives. Ditto for mages. If a Lux by midgame lands a bind, it's a full combo kill and same for ahri charm or zoe bubble or orianna combo. There's no point in playing an assassin when ranged champs are doing the same burst as you.

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=00050000000100000001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T18:12:33.972+0000)

He's extremely abusable in lane. And map control is not why he doesn't get picked. In LCS, junglers are on another level of coordination with their laners, making it rather difficult for most assassins to even make it out of the laning phase due to the inherent safety of artillery mages in mid lane (most of the time they're seconds away from their turret and can assist jungle ganks far more safely with less risks from a countergank than assassins can).

Artillery mages also are supremely better in teamfights than most assassins. The only assassins who have seen play are Akali and Qiyana, one due to her immense built in safety kit to allow her to survive the avalanche of tank support and jungle CC spam before being vaporized by the enemy ADC+top+mid lane, and the other because an aoe knockback+stun ult more than makes up for picks that most other assassins lack.

In general, people moan about assassins only because most of solo Q doesn't even pick tank supports and tank/bruiser junglers. The moment there is a Rakan/Alistair/Blitz and a Sejuani/Skarner/Nunu/Ivern/warwick/volibear/Vi in the jungle assassins completely fall apart because it only takes a 1.5 sec CC to die and the fact they nerfed night's edge only makes this worse as the only other item is Mercurial Scimitar, and QSS is massively overpriced and sets you so far behind in power spike before you can ever be a threat again.

We are at a point where a Catilyn/Kai'sa even in mid game is putting out the same damage I am as a blue Kayn and is capable of 1v1'ing me. That's how much damage the class you're supposed to counter is doing, let alone the enemy top and mid lane.

There is no reason to play assassins because currently if an ADC gets to 5 kills in their lane they're just a ranged assassin with all the perks and way better teamfighting and sieging objectives. Ditto for mages. If a Lux by midgame lands a bind, it's a full combo kill and same for ahri charm or zoe bubble or orianna combo. There's no point in playing an assassin when ranged champs are doing the same burst as you.

You are right at everything u just wrote but about assassins, but we are talking about fizz, and he is the same thing as qiyana with just minor differences and one big one that she can be played at jg. You just wrote what a pain it is when there is against peeling tanks and I know it really well since Im Rengar main with nearly 500K on him. But fizz doesn't seem to have such problems with R EWQ combo and even if he doesnt kill anyone someone else from his teammate will since he can do easily do 4K dmg into someone with 100 MR with just that combo ( You said that mages have safety and does not fizz have any safety spells?). And his invulnerability is combined with zhonya which is another invulnerability makes him superior to others assassins as I once said he has guaranteed first hit in "Who hits first wins" situations. Lastly, I was originally talking about his kit with assassin purposes, that he has overall small numbers compared to others is another thing...

Crescent DuskNov 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You are right at everything u just wrote but about assassins, but we are talking about fizz, and he is the same thing as qiyana with just minor differences and one big one that she can be played at jg. You just wrote what a pain it is when there is against peeling tanks and I know it really well since Im Rengar main with nearly 500K on him. But fizz doesn't seem to have such problems with R EWQ combo and even if he doesnt kill anyone someone else from his teammate will since he can do easily do 4K dmg into someone with 100 MR with just that combo ( You said that mages have safety and does not fizz have any safety spells?). And his invulnerability is combined with zhonya which is another invulnerability makes him superior to others assassins as I once said he has guaranteed first hit in "Who hits first wins" situations. Lastly, I was originally talking about his kit with assassin purposes, that he has overall small numbers compared to others is another thing...

His safety tools he has to spend to even get past the frontline, which means that he has none to get out, so at best he trades a 1 for 1 by kamikaze into a target, but at worst he triggers a PD or GA and then he promptly gets CC'd to death anyways.

ADC's are way too survivable right now with the right supports and items.

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=0005000000010000000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T21:28:37.436+0000)

His safety tools he has to spend to even get past the frontline, which means that he has none to get out, so at best he trades a 1 for 1 by kamikaze into a target, but at worst he triggers a PD or GA and then he promptly gets CC'd to death anyways.

ADC's are way too survivable right now with the right supports and items.

In bad case scenario, ye but u seems to purposely ignore the fact that he has Q and many possibilities how to deal with his so called "cons" ( E in, Q out when they are sty flying and zhonya just for swag) and its not always 1 for 1 kamikaze when u burst multiple ppl and open them for your teammates -.-

Fizz is like my rengar in this vid https://youtu.be/LpOTb2AHIps but without need of elder...

Crescent DuskNov 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In bad case scenario, ye but u seems to purposely ignore the fact that he has Q and many possibilities how to deal with his so called "cons" ( E in, Q out when they are sty flying and zhonya just for swag) and its not always 1 for 1 kamikaze when u burst multiple ppl and open them for your teammates -.-

Fizz is like my rengar in this vid https://youtu.be/LpOTb2AHIps but without need of elder...

If you can reach an ADC with just E they've massively mispositioned. Besides, using E to close the distance means the moment you land from an E you eat a CC and die before you can even Q out.

Rengar is a much more durable champ than Fizz when focused. Sure, you'll do something for your team, but your enemy team has a midlaner that will also do something for their team.

The fact is assassins feel great against teams with no frontlines, but the moment there is a single CC tank the game becomes massively more frustrating as an assassin.

By this point I'd even accept a decrease in damage if all the assassin classes received the wukon/gargoyle stoneplate passive baseline so they can actually teamfight without vaporizing in a stun.

HideSideNov 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P0nP1AZy,comment-id=00050000000100000001000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-25T21:52:51.615+0000)

If you can reach an ADC with just E they've massively mispositioned. Besides, using E to close the distance means the moment you land from an E you eat a CC and die before you can even Q out.

Rengar is a much more durable champ than Fizz when focused. Sure, you'll do something for your team, but your enemy team has a midlaner that will also do something for their team.

The fact is assassins feel great against teams with no frontlines, but the moment there is a single CC tank the game becomes massively more frustrating as an assassin.

By this point I'd even accept a decrease in damage if all the assassin classes received the wukon/gargoyle stoneplate passive baseline so they can actually teamfight without vaporizing in a stun.

Just one lil thing, rengar isnt much more durable just a little and sometimes he has to throw that away ( with zhonya its fizz who is more durable and with his invulnerability + zhonyas active whose let you have literally infinite durability for few sec it is really really wrong to say that rengar is more durable not to even think " much more" ) to do something and can do just a little bit more dmg than fizz in lategame and only to single target. Only right thing you stated right now is that ( when I help to what you said) fizz can achieve his "wet dream" only when others are misspositioned ( but thats still "wet dream" the same thing as lanning 5 ppl so that lux can hit them all on R ) and that game should have less dmg https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/jOAjQ22g-is-it-just-me-or-is-this-game-not-balanced?show=flat&comment=00020000

When even everyother assasin including diana and rengar can be played in teamfight then why not fizz with his R, 6 sec E and zhonya? You just need to play around the fact that there are your teammates too who just have to keep them busy. You cant argument against that, not with something thats not true ( like rengar being more durable) or some uncompleted game logic.

This is from my side all. You did well defending this blue sushi :-). Now I go win arguments in other threads where ppl aren't reasonable as you.

StillHittinLicksJul 28, 20181 votes

what're you talking about lol? If a champion has a high win rate, that means they're strong at the moment of the game, making them "meta". Example: Graves and Kindred. They are completely ridiculous right now, and you know why? Because kindred got back her heals and some other stuff, Idk about graves, he just became super OP outta no where.

wildfox99Jul 28, 20181 votes

if some champions are too strong ofc their win rate will raise,but my point is a champion isn't always balanced at 50% for many reasons

in this case the mini rework in his W and his counters being the best meta picks made his win rate suffer and making he look weaker than he actually is,so i think they should have waited a bit and see how he was once players got used to his "new" W

PhantomPranksterJul 28, 20184 votes

fizz is a pubstomp character

ProtoMMXVIIJul 28, 20183 votes

[deleted]

GripaAviaraJul 28, 20186 votes

Which is exactly the point, he doesn't need buffs, he needs a small kit change. I'm complaining about his design, not him being free elo

If a fizz gets ahead, it's f up to play against him because he has so much safe space, while instakilling you in 2 shots. I actually prefer playing vs Zed more than fizz as an ADC since if Zed misses or a well timed flash, i'm safe. With Fizz, I literary have no option

ThefrostyvikingJul 28, 20182 votes

Fizz is weak right now overall, but i agree that his kit is just so insanely frustrating to play against.

TewljrJul 28, 20182 votes

Okay they nerfed fizz this patch with the w change. He went from 51% winrate to 47% winrate. He can no longer burst unless you guys were actually just walking into him. He should not be able to get any kills pre-level 6 and his roaming is not for him getting kills, it's just for the slow and knockup for your allies. You got your nerf that you're complaining about so much

SensanatyJul 29, 20182 votes

Fizz is a classic noob and pubstomper. He's less than useless pre-6, and every single mid laner shits on him via poke to which he can't retaliate. He loses EVERY single trade as long as you're not playing like an absolute monkey and letting him hit a loaded W on you.

If he uses his E a single time during laning phase and he's not near tower, he is monumentally fucked and has to burn a flash or die to literally any midlaner in the game, seeing as they ALL deal much better damage to him from range.

Why do people find it so difficult to just play safe during a champion's powerspike? He hits 6, shove the wave in and back, considering he has 0 waveclear (unless he blows E), you're forcing him to stay in lane and by the time you're back the risk of dying to him is already much lower because you'll likely be even with him + have more pushing power.

And if you're incapable of playing safe/dodging his max range ult, pick summoner 21 or summoner 3 , you negate his entire combo with either of those and he's suddenly lost any hope of ever coming back online.

REDNITEJul 28, 20181 votes

Always been. just go in draft and ban

F Ù ŃJul 28, 20181 votes

As a Zoe main, I have no problem against Fizz, except that he can literally avoid my entire combo my jumping when I land my e.

BotanRiceCandiesJul 29, 20181 votes

Fizz use to be my pocket pick and after this patch I hate playing him. He's also dropped in playrate to winrate ratio considerably.

GankLordNov 25, 20191 votes

Yasuo says move over

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

More than year old thread is like private conversation now :D LuL :D

EkhasmNov 25, 20191 votes

Because he's melee and has to get up close. I'd rather play against Fizz than someone who 1-shots you from off-screen

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because he's melee and has to get up close. I'd rather play against Fizz than someone who 1-shots you from off-screen

Only such champ is zoe and maybe ori, others don't do so much dmg or don't have that range or are standing right next to you but behind corner so you don't see them. Fizz is like vlad buth with way better mobility and burst compensated for range and sustain. Imagine Vlad to have twice as big dmg on E with also twice as big CD for compensation. No one would care if his CD is 1,2,3 or 50 sec when everyone would be dead since dead do not take dmg nor they can retaliate when vlad has everything on CD.

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

I think that tank fizz meta was quite healthy for everyone. No oneshoting, nor zoning fizz from CS. But since I don't really remember all details from that meta its just that I only "think".

HideSideNov 25, 20191 votes

And I also think that making Gragas a utility vanguard would be also splendid idea isntead of his WQREF - Quadrakill!