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Fights should last longer

GripaAviara··94 votes·17,345 views

This game high damage makes it way less fun. Fights should last at least double as they last now. This is the most fun part of the game and it's all so flashy and instant it's unsatisfying in most cases, win or lose. Now you either burst or get bursted. The best fights are at low levels, where people actually last more than 2-3 sec.

They need to think about this: remove a part of the mobility (flash for ex), increase endurance for all players and make fights last longer. This will make games better in all ELOs:

  • low ELO: it won't be as punishing to get a little out of position, it will decrease feeding and fix a part of the snowballing issue
  • high ELO: it will emphasize strategy more and skill expression by being able to manage resources better and it will be more obvious than a quick reflex, making players utilize the skills more than just 1 one-shot skill combo
  • competitive: fights are the best part. Nobody wants to see farming. And fights are scarce in competitive. Making them last so a few seconds is often anti-climatic

Another benefit would be tunning ADCs to finally be DPS, not crit burst that are now and make kitting way more important. Also, Assasins can be tunned for having higher than average damage, but not be the one-shots that are now punishing low hp and clearing the battlefield

51 Comments

kneel on Ice20 votes

I know right , one shots are so annoying

HollowMimic7 votes

One shots from shadows are even more annoying

boricCentaur117 votes

Nerf all damage by 15% then go from there.

DaBooosh12 votes

Disagree. That will make mages much less impactful in team fights and ADCs the main(if not only) win condition. Back in the old times. Play around your AD carry. Feed your AD carry. Let your AD carry deal all the damage. Having fights last longer actually encourages farming over skirmishing. AD carries aren't really that impactful early on. They need items to get strong so early fights will be avoided (since mages would have to deal less damage). There is also a lot of mobility in the game so that mispositioning is less punishing.

MegaHuff13 votes

{quoted}

Disagree. That will make mages much less impactful in team fights and ADCs the main(if not only) win condition. Back in the old times. Play around your AD carry. Feed your AD carry. Let your AD carry deal all the damage. Having fights last longer actually encourages farming over skirmishing. AD carries aren't really that impactful early on. They need items to get strong so early fights will be avoided (since mages would have to deal less damage). There is also a lot of mobility in the game so that mispositioning is less punishing.

I disagree with your disagreement, mostly for the reason that the bullet points you provided aren't all that bad. Right now I feel like ADC and mage are in somewhat of the same boat, two sides of the same coin. The difference I see generally is that mages tend to have longer range or be more ability-based, and tend to not have a lot of escape, but rather CC to lock down/get away. ADCs are usually more focused on auto attacking, have decent range still, but not every ADC has mobility. Some do, but some are just pure damage dispensers.

Overall I think mages and ADCs are just damage, just of different types, and both can suffer from the same problem that the high damage brings. If either one gets CCed once later on, it's an opportunity for practically anybody else with decent damage to come in and just finish the job, and when I play squishy carries, it's not rare for me to feel like there wasn't a lot of outplay available. I hate the feeling of just being bodied 2v1 and not having any way to really defend myself, which is why I usually gravitate toward tankier champions (like top lane champs) personally. Those are the champions I feel like it's most common to be able to turn around a 2v1 with, and actually have a say in those fights. I don't think it should just be that the carries are the only ones able to do damage or anything and just go back to the times where you just babysit your damage and win, but I think it's a serious problem when you're finding yourself in situations where people just coordinate an attack on you and there's no way to realistically fight back. Whether the solution be to make CC cooldowns longer so picks are more valuable/uncommon, damage overall being lowered, or whatever, something needs to happen where it doesn't feel like one class or another is just useless against any enemies with a brain that can gang bang them.

I won't say that problems don't exist from having the damage lowered, I haven't thought super in-depth of the topic yet, but I can say from personal experience from playing league for years, that it definitely feels better to me playing most of the other non-squishies simply because of the fact that I don't get blown up. I can handle being destroyed because I made a mistake, but when it feels like I couldn't have done many other things to prevent it, that's where the game just feels like it's not fun anymore to me.

Dingding1234 votes

Actually...

They were only played around because they were cheap to maintain, alongside supports. They could miss out on xp and still be effective, and were good at sieging.

The better team realized that everyone that isn't the marksman should instigate or peel, not because their marksman was amazing but because they were otherwise irrelevant in the fight. Marksmen not named Vayne didn't have the lategame fantasy they do now; in fact most marksmen bought a straight-up tank item as a 5th or 6th item and often included a Bloodthirster in their builds as well. They consistently opted to not be squishy lategame over being nothing but a glass cannon, because the game's damage scaling wasn't nearly as ridiculous as it now is with Runes Reforged...just look at all the % bonus damage and free damage everywhere...

Of course, this was all way back in seasons 1-3. Let's not beat around the bush; the game we play now is nothing like the original League of Legends except for the map structure of SR, item avatars and character models. The game us old-timers know is dead.

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

Disagree. That will make mages much less impactful in team fights and ADCs the main(if not only) win condition. Back in the old times. Play around your AD carry. Feed your AD carry. Let your AD carry deal all the damage. Having fights last longer actually encourages farming over skirmishing. AD carries aren't really that impactful early on. They need items to get strong so early fights will be avoided (since mages would have to deal less damage). There is also a lot of mobility in the game so that mispositioning is less punishing.

Screw Adc mandatory. I preffer versility over mandatory

Pacattack255 votes

The problem with straight up removing flash is the game is so built around flash that removing it is a HUGE nerf to certian champs who basically need it Annie to do anything ... you would basically require VGUs for ... almost every immobile mage, and a good portion of ADCs to really make this viable - on the other hand the reason why some characters get to do bs things Annie Flash+R for example is because of flash...

The problem at hand is that flash is broken but immobile things need some way to actually catch mobile things My solution replace flash with Mobility Ring When you activate this you will be interrupted ignoring unstoppable (stopping you from being able to use this in a mobility tool... Fiddlesticks I'm looking at you) When active grounds ALL champions within a 500 (ish) unit circle for 15 seconds

I feel like this is a far fairer way about flash than flash - like flash this can be used defensively to excape [by just preventing things from being able to use absurd amounts of mobility] or to catch up [see above] but you can't use it to then use some absurd amount of mobility to either get away or ensure the catch. Unlike Flash there is counterplay to this other than using it against the person using it on you and this method can't be used on already hyper mobile champions to just make them harder to catch

MegaHuff3 votes

{quoted}

The problem with straight up removing flash is the game is so built around flash that removing it is a HUGE nerf to certian champs who basically need it Annie to do anything ... you would basically require VGUs for ... almost every immobile mage, and a good portion of ADCs to really make this viable - on the other hand the reason why some characters get to do bs things Annie Flash+R for example is because of flash...

The problem at hand is that flash is broken but immobile things need some way to actually catch mobile things My solution replace flash with Mobility Ring When you activate this you will be interrupted ignoring unstoppable (stopping you from being able to use this in a mobility tool... Fiddlesticks I'm looking at you) When active grounds ALL champions within a 500 (ish) unit circle for 15 seconds

I feel like this is a far fairer way about flash than flash - like flash this can be used defensively to excape [by just preventing things from being able to use absurd amounts of mobility] or to catch up [see above] but you can't use it to then use some absurd amount of mobility to either get away or ensure the catch. Unlike Flash there is counterplay to this other than using it against the person using it on you and this method can't be used on already hyper mobile champions to just make them harder to catch

Flash never felt like it didn't belong to me, but to be fair, I've seen Annies and Fizz and any other champion pretty much out there that can build AP, build a hextech protobelt and it works practically like a flash. I feel like they could potentially get rid of flash and still have the game function, especially if they added more items with actives that could make up for something like that (like how protobelt gives a little dash that can be used similarly to flash). I know it's not a direct replacement, like how flash can hop walls and all that, but I wouldn't necessarily break immobile champs the way I see it, just sort of emphasize their weakness of being immobile. Annie, for example, would still be scary with just her power, just that if Flash was removed she just wouldn't be able to surprise you with a random gap closer every five minutes. Without that, I'd argue Annie would still be at least viable. Her combo wouldn't really change or anything.

Just a thought from a regular player though, I'm not a balance pro or anything. :P

Saezio2 votes

{quoted}

Flash never felt like it didn't belong to me, but to be fair, I've seen Annies and Fizz and any other champion pretty much out there that can build AP, build a hextech protobelt and it works practically like a flash. I feel like they could potentially get rid of flash and still have the game function, especially if they added more items with actives that could make up for something like that (like how protobelt gives a little dash that can be used similarly to flash). I know it's not a direct replacement, like how flash can hop walls and all that, but I wouldn't necessarily break immobile champs the way I see it, just sort of emphasize their weakness of being immobile. Annie, for example, would still be scary with just her power, just that if Flash was removed she just wouldn't be able to surprise you with a random gap closer every five minutes. Without that, I'd argue Annie would still be at least viable. Her combo wouldn't really change or anything.

Just a thought from a regular player though, I'm not a balance pro or anything. :P

Annie's not even viable with flash atm. (challenger/pro play wise)

MegaHuff1 votes

{quoted}

Annie's not even viable with flash atm. (challenger/pro play wise)

Well, my point is she probably wouldn't be that screwed over just from having something like that removed compared to now.

Pacattack251 votes

{quoted}

Flash never felt like it didn't belong to me, but to be fair, I've seen Annies and Fizz and any other champion pretty much out there that can build AP, build a hextech protobelt and it works practically like a flash. I feel like they could potentially get rid of flash and still have the game function, especially if they added more items with actives that could make up for something like that (like how protobelt gives a little dash that can be used similarly to flash). I know it's not a direct replacement, like how flash can hop walls and all that, but I wouldn't necessarily break immobile champs the way I see it, just sort of emphasize their weakness of being immobile. Annie, for example, would still be scary with just her power, just that if Flash was removed she just wouldn't be able to surprise you with a random gap closer every five minutes. Without that, I'd argue Annie would still be at least viable. Her combo wouldn't really change or anything.

Just a thought from a regular player though, I'm not a balance pro or anything. :P

Someone did not read the suggestion I had to change flash out for something else entirely at bottom of post

MegaHuff1 votes

{quoted}

Someone did not read the suggestion I had to change flash out for something else entirely at bottom of post

I didn't realize it was obligatory for me to respond directly to your idea to add to the conversation -- I'll think twice next time.

Slim Gragas2 votes

{quoted}

The problem with straight up removing flash is the game is so built around flash that removing it is a HUGE nerf to certian champs who basically need it Annie to do anything ... you would basically require VGUs for ... almost every immobile mage, and a good portion of ADCs to really make this viable - on the other hand the reason why some characters get to do bs things Annie Flash+R for example is because of flash...

The problem at hand is that flash is broken but immobile things need some way to actually catch mobile things My solution replace flash with Mobility Ring When you activate this you will be interrupted ignoring unstoppable (stopping you from being able to use this in a mobility tool... Fiddlesticks I'm looking at you) When active grounds ALL champions within a 500 (ish) unit circle for 15 seconds

I feel like this is a far fairer way about flash than flash - like flash this can be used defensively to excape [by just preventing things from being able to use absurd amounts of mobility] or to catch up [see above] but you can't use it to then use some absurd amount of mobility to either get away or ensure the catch. Unlike Flash there is counterplay to this other than using it against the person using it on you and this method can't be used on already hyper mobile champions to just make them harder to catch

So you think that instead of reworking the champions who shouldn't have to depend on flash to do anything, they should keep flash just to keep those champions relevant? Sounds like the champion has a problem with their kit and that a lot more problems would be solved if we didn't have to be held down by those champs. It's an obvious design flaw that any champion should have to depend on flash to be viable, though i'm well aware of what the Riot balance team isn't capable of and designers like CertainlyT.

Pacattack251 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slim Gragas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yA5XNihb,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2018-09-09T02:01:11.201+0000)

So you think that instead of reworking the champions who shouldn't have to depend on flash to do anything, they should keep flash just to keep those champions relevant? Sounds like the champion has a problem with their kit and that a lot more problems would be solved if we didn't have to be held down by those champs. It's an obvious design flaw that any champion should have to depend on flash to be viable, though i'm well aware of what the Riot balance team isn't capable of and designers like CertainlyT.

Someone did not read the suggestion I had to change flash out for something else entirely at bottom of post

Rıots Bad Client3 votes

I do like longer fights, the problem is People walking out of fights. People just walk out of fights that are unwinnable. Its a few risk.

Boatwhistle2 votes

The game isn't about getting kills to get stronger to get more kills. It helps but that's not the point. In terms of fighting all you want is to have an advantage which can be gotten many different ways that doesn't involve getting kills. What is important is getting objectives, some so much so its worth getting killed. It doesn't matter if enemies get away a lot, Cause if they leave this means you can get what ever it was you were fighting for.

League needs to just needs to have more to fight over. Then the need to make it so that people don't die 5 seconds into team fight because 1 shots.

VonToothskie3 votes

100% agree with the O.P.

While a very small number of champs should have burst damage, like say rengar or brand, most should not. This game was more fun when champions had more distinct roles and damage was the privilege of carries.
in the not so distant past you couldn't 1 vs 5 a team unless they had played very, very badly by comparison earlier. now I see dumb crap like a starved pyke nailing a triple kill. dial it back

Boatwhistle1 votes

I had to stop playing pyke because not many games in I got a quadra kill during my misfortunes ult. It happened as fast as I could press R, I was playing tank pyke.

kargish1 votes

Not entirely sure about the 1v5 bit.

I for one remember pre-dodge rework Jax building item 3146 item 3146 item 3146 item 3146 item 3146 item 3047 and then proceeding to be immortal while dealing full carry damage.

Mordekaiser could do the same thing, especially if he got enemy adc as ghost.

KFCeytron3 votes

Longer? Are you kidding me? This fight's been going since last week!

PaffWasTaken3 votes

The worse part about this situation is that some people are enjoying this mess, and Riot are taking their words instead of the majority of the community's, making the game worse and worse for several months without stopping in sight

Leetri2 votes

Why is OP's opinion more legitimate than the opinion of those who enjoy the game? And why do you believe the majority thinks like OP? You'd need 40-50 million people to agree with OP for it to be a majority and there simply isn't that many people on all League forums combined. 99% of all players never check Reddit or the boards, so it's impossible to say what the actual popular opinion is.

Modl Ryden l2 votes

And how

Laçez2 votes

I dunno about this, I see where you're coming from but it'll change league's identity. I think it'll feel slow and boring.

Karunamon3 votes

{quoted}

I dunno about this, I see where you're coming from but it'll change league's identity. I think it'll feel slow and boring.

SR games used to last 45 minutes on average. Loved it a lot more than the flashy blink-and-youll-miss-it we have now.

Harden Stepback2 votes

Yeah i agree with this. I was watching some season 2 worlds highlights, damn I miss those days.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

I don't even agree but due to the past like 3 weeks I'll gladly have this be the top post of the boards.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

I can't really imagine how tough the last 3 weeks would of been on people with your sort of position on the boards.

Personally I have like 3 artworks I want to post in Concepts and Creations right now, but there's no point with certain people running around.

It'll just get sweeped under all the hate and arguments, and I actually really like posting my skin concepts.

Smashed Hash1 votes

I feel like the changes to the Jungle makes the Jungliers feel rushed having to clear camps, instead of getting in-lane early-mid action and really strut their champ.

mack911212 votes

But previous jungle interaction was far too oppressive with jungle lane pressure available far too early prevnting the lanes themselves any opportunity for personal skill expression and this is coming from a jungle main.

Smashed Hash1 votes

I see!

M00ndanc31 votes

there currently about to start working on resistances and cc in general so i believe that should contribute to this problem

Squidblimp1 votes

Play tanks and correctly peel for your team, and the fights will last plenty long.

Plat HardstuckXD5 votes

Conq and IE melt tanks lol.

saltran2 votes

IE doesn't melt anything lul

Plat HardstuckXD3 votes

Cept that true damage it has

BestPudgeNA1 votes

Please no more ADC/Tank/Support mage buffs they're already disgustingly OP as it is.

saltran1 votes

That would be a buff to sustain dmg and dps so a overall buff to adcs and as an adc main I dont want more buffs.

Keep the meta as it is, this is one of the best metas I've seen on a long time, for both soloQ and pro play.

GripaAviara1 votes

While it would be a buff to sustain that doesn't mean the ADC burst can't be nerfed :)

If you like the current meta is fine, people just have different tastes

ThunderSkelett1 votes

wait assasins should not be allowed to one shot but that their job.

GripaAviara1 votes

Not really.

I mean, in the current state yes when everybody bursts. But when the game was more balanced, they were finishers, hunting lower HP champions during/after TF

ThunderSkelett1 votes

but riot said themself that assasin should be abel to take out a high priority target and get out again.

Neptunia xoxo1 votes

The people talking about Flash being broken like what the hell lol... get out of here please

Boatwhistle1 votes

Well technically it is broken. It is so valuable only a few champions can afford to not take flash and its only because they have abilities that have the same effect as flash. Even then people still tend to take flash on such champions. This even if you don't think you need flash to win a lane you want it just to cancel out the other players flash. Hell ults are considered worth it even if they didn't hit so long as the flash was forced out. Name another summoner that's considered an positive trade to getting flash out? heal maybe? Difference is heal wont nullify a gank with near the same effectiveness as a flash. The only summoner spell that isn't defeated by flash when you consider they can use it as an easy out under unfavorable circumstances is ignite. Also just imagine if there was a set of items in the game that gave flash as an active. Tell me this wouldn't be insanely meta to anything that can use its base stats.

How about playing champions without flash/built in flashes for a week then say it isn't OP. Lose lane after lane, fail time after time all because you don't have flash. The only reason it doesn't seem OP is because everyone can and does use it. Its OP, but its a fair use kind of OP.

Neptunia xoxo1 votes

{quoted}

Well technically it is broken. It is so valuable only a few champions can afford to not take flash and its only because they have abilities that have the same effect as flash. Even then people still tend to take flash on such champions. This even if you don't think you need flash to win a lane you want it just to cancel out the other players flash. Hell ults are considered worth it even if they didn't hit so long as the flash was forced out. Name another summoner that's considered an positive trade to getting flash out? heal maybe? Difference is heal wont nullify a gank with near the same effectiveness as a flash. The only summoner spell that isn't defeated by flash when you consider they can use it as an easy out under unfavorable circumstances is ignite. Also just imagine if there was a set of items in the game that gave flash as an active. Tell me this wouldn't be insanely meta to anything that can use its base stats.

How about playing champions without flash/built in flashes for a week then say it isn't OP. Lose lane after lane, fail time after time all because you don't have flash. The only reason it doesn't seem OP is because everyone can and does use it. Its OP, but its a fair use kind of OP.

Dunno how stupid you are irl but jesus christ man like Flash has always been the thing people want in the game like what you just said can be said about anything. Using a mouse compared to playing with a track pad is OP See how stupid that sounds? Nothing needs to happen to Flash.

HeyBigGuyHeyBudd1 votes

The passive damage from the runes is what needs to be removed from the game or heavily tuned down. It takes less skill to snowball a lane out of control or to totally demolish your lane opponent.

Carnicore1 votes

It's a little difficult to do that without removing kill pressure in the lane phase. If it takes too long to kill someone, then they reach the safety of their turret. But it would be a very good change for melee champions, since right now teamfighting is really difficult unless you're very tanky.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Game's length time had already transisted in normalization stage tho. Game's been lasting 30 minutes at least or more last two weeks.

GripaAviara1 votes

Longer TF doesn't necessary mean longer games

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