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@Riot My Cry to keep up the good work, and revise the other failed reworks.

Dreadlocks··35 votes·1,829 views

I've heard some acceptance that the class rework idea hasn't been as good as you were hoping.. I'm glad to hear it so hopefully we won't have them anymore. But can you do your players a favor and revise the reworks you have recently done that didn't achieve what you wanted?

Again, I know you've revised Kog, Malz, Rek'Sai, Kindred and have talked a little about revising leblanc too. Despite it taking a lot of resources i think it's worth it. I'm sure me and many others would appreciate at least some word on the others that havn't yet. I would like to give you credit for these changes too. Because i feel like these small revisions have been very successful. I like the changes you made to Kog, Malz, Rek'Sai and Kindred..** You really put them back to what you wanted them to be. ** Please consider Revising the others before moving forward.. You guys have seriously done a great job fixing these reworks and i will feel very left out and shit on if you didn't at least try Rengar. I'm sure other players would appreciate the effort and communication as well. Fizz players can hardly use their champion anymore and honestly i don't think he needs too much attention to be fixed.. Just revise the W imo. I won't comment too much on him or others though, but in Rengar's case.. Me and many other mains know there are acceptable ways to put him back into the assassin class he deserves to be in.

Please Riot .. You're revisions have been really good, don't leave the others behind..

86 Comments

Shahamut16 votes

item 3070 Skarner item 3070

Rengooo5 votes

Skarner seems like he would have been a super easy fix, just remove spires and buff Q to compensate? Isn't that the main gripe skarner players have/had with his update?

50000000000000001 votes

He's not really good at anything then. And it's not like he's good enough at everything to justify not being a specialist either.

Shahamut2 votes

Skarner has always been at least "good" at 2 things: 1v1 fighting and punishing bad positioning.

Skarner, based on original fantasy and kit design, is a Skirmisher who's secondary role is that of a warden.

Shahamut4 votes

Remove passive, great. Buff Q, fine. What's his new passive? :-P

TheBenchedKench2 votes

Skarner is a weird champion now, his kit doesn't really fit with his lore anymore, and most of his power is in his passive (crystals.), and if he isn't around them he gets buttfucked if he can't land his E.

Big Lincoln9 votes

Sejuani revision when

Lane Cancer5 votes

nah

Arakadia12 votes

No need imo. She's fine.

I rarely have trouble proccing my E as Sejuani. Melees just make it easier.

I still want some damage shifted to her W, but eh.

Big Lincoln5 votes

she's cancer, this is garbage design

Whiteeye Avelyn18 votes

Instead of just complaining can you give a reason she is cancer.

ShadowParker8 votes

This

Big Lincoln2 votes

i've made multiple threads about why sej is one of the worst reworks, so no

DJMason885 votes

Oh you mean like the one where you said Elise's E was a Sejuani Ult? Most of your threads are just "garbage rework rito sucks", you don't give any constructive criticism.

Legacy Hydralpha5 votes

Remember kids: You don't need to make a point if you just spam that something is cancer.

Sauceyapples2 votes

This comment is cancer ;)

Legacy Hydralpha2 votes

That's the spirit!

LankPants3 votes

I absolutely hate the playstyle her E and passive promote. I don't like how Riot has removed her DPS in exchange for tons of burst. I don't like that her E is oftentimes more reliant on her melee allies than herself.

There's a lot of problems with the kit, I do agree with you that just saying she's cancer isn't particularly helpful but I wouldn't disagree that she has a garbage design.

Rengooo4 votes

Sej is fine -_- They just need to move some damage from her E proc/passive to the W or something. Her old kit was abysmally boring that had the majority of its power tied up in the ult.

BoilTheOil1 votes

shes still boring imo

Rengooo1 votes

Wont argue with that :/

NodirjonSattarov3 votes

I like the changes you made to Kog, Malz, Rek'Sai and Kindred.. You really put them back to what you wanted them to be.

I'm curious as to how you like the changes on Kog'Maw seeing as you haven't played Kog'Maw at all, at least thats what your match history is telling me. Additionally, where does @riot want Kog'Maw to be? If you're talking about his AP nerfs then thats fair. However, if you're talking about his revert then I haven't the slightest idea of what you mean. Sure they set the clocks back to S5 Kog'Maw but only partially. Items have changed, meta has changed and by no means is Kog'Maw "back" to what they wanted him to be.

Dreadlocks6 votes

Its not nearly the abomination that his old kit was with the 2x attack speed cap. Again, i don't play every champ in the game regularly but that doesn't make me ignorant of their kits.. I'm not gana sit here and pretend like i'm a kog'maw expert.. but i'm not delusional to the point to see that old Kog was completely broken.

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

Can we fix this bitch? Karma

Yalathanil2 votes

What is there to fix? Her utility is amazing even later in the game, because of Q being a waveclearing monster (for a support at least). The only thing she really lacks is healing, but item 3174 sort of compensates.

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

Her rework was incredibly botched. She has been a consistent balance nightmare since the rework. She's bland to play and her art is incredibly low quality, even in comparison to her old self.

ImpmonCute1 votes

i thought her new splash arts are really well done though

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

Splashes are fine. Models are pretty garbage and she lacks multiple animations that should of gotten alongside her rework.

Harukishi3 votes

Make Rengar Great Again

Dreadlocks2 votes

Or at least an assassin and not a diver.

amirite? =\

subhuman team XD1 votes

the one thing i miss the most is the fact that rengar use to stab people , that sound that smooth animation and that GRR after hitting a Q just made him feel soooo ferocious and really exiting to play ingame , now hes just a cat whos trying to win the swimming competition , if it means to bring old Q back with just simple base dmg and simple scaling , i wouldnt mind at all , i just want old Q even if it means reverting Q only doesnt matter as long as the ability itself is back ... how come people like talon camille fiora get auto resets on their kit but rengar isnt allowed to have such a thing , i get that the old Q's scalings and the ability itself was unhealthy , but it can become healthy if it has a base and ad scaling instead of having % total ad and attack speed steroid AND increased % bonus dmg no wonder it was so broken ...

Dreadlocks1 votes

EXACTLY why didn't they just balance the numbers or the counter play around the old kit? I don't see the need for this new one if they actually did what they did with kindred to Rengar.. Which is keeping the same kit and doing tweeks.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Because balancing the Rengar that has the skill to auto reset twice in .4 seconds and the Rengar that does it in one second is difficult. Also since the old kit had very little counterpplay that could be introduced, Rengar flies out of stealth and you are dead unless you have the reflexes of a god. What can you do other than delay his damage (which the update did)?

Dreadlocks1 votes

The thing a lot of players are ignoring here is that there was a stealth update too. Rengar would have a harder time getting to his target in team fights givin that his R would be camo now. Plus if the R gave more notification it would allow players adapt to it accordingly. Right now, when Rengar ults and sees a target, the enemy knows too. And it makes a HUGE difference for the Rengar in his ability to make a pick. I think if Talon is still allowed to 1 shot with 1 skill rotation in half a second. Then why can't Rengar be balanced around it as well? If a player is going to split push past river and knows Rengar is strong enough to 1 shot him, why shouldn't he be able to? It's what Rengar did.

Furthermore, they could've removed and added things to Rengar's kit to fix the issues. Removing his ability to crit on Q would be a MASSIVE step in the right direction. Forcing Rengar to build lethality not only makes his 1 shot easier to survive (tabis/ga) but it also makes him much less effective and mowing down tanks afterwards.

One of my biggest issues with the current rengar is his W. If we look at Kha'Zix and Akali for example, both of those champions lost a bruiser/tank feature. Kha'zix use to have damage reduction, but it didnt fit the assassin role, and Akali use to get bonus res in her shroud (w) Both of those things were removed due to it being uncharacteristic for an assasin. Yet they give Rengar his current W which is a massive heal and can remove CC (release was immunity) Furthermore they make his Q and his ferocity more fitting of a fighter giving his Q aoe, and his passive fallling off. They turned an assassin into a fighter, and they did it on purpose. They knew damn well the kit they were giving him would never survive as an assassin given their past balance approaches with assassins.

Baron of Bread2 votes

They did make him focus on Lethality builds, remove his ability to crit with Q, made his ult have potential counterplay (the changes to how his ult works could be considered a small rework if they were the only changes to his kit) and gave him a way to get out of fights which the previous Rengar did not have which is key to being an assassin instead of a diver (I agree that his W also allows for bruiser playstyles, but that is no different from old Rengar who also frequently went bruiser).

New Rengar with a damage build CAN one shot squishies, give it a try. He does do it slower than a Talon if the Talon can get next to somebody without using his Q as a gap closer, but Rengar doesn't have to use his ult to do so if the enemy walks near a bush.

Dreadlocks2 votes

They did make him focus on Lethality builds, remove his ability to crit with Q

Yeah they did make those changes to his Q, but they also made it dodgeable and a skill shot. Which is a big deal.

gave him a way to get out of fights which the previous Rengar did not have which is key to being an assassin instead of a diver

Rengar's way out of a fight before was the insane MS he got after breaking stealth. That alone is more acceptable on an assassin than BS healing and CC immunity.

New Rengar with a damage build CAN one shot squishies, give it a try. He does do it slower than a Talon if the Talon can get next to somebody without using his Q as a gap closer

I'm not saying Rengar can't 1 shot anymore. But building him full AD is suicide when faced with 5v5. He simply doesn't scale into late game for shit with full AD.

Baron of Bread2 votes

I wouldn't consider his Q dodgeable. It goes fast enough that the only way it isn't hitting is if the person is already flashing when you start.

Being fast isn't really a way out of a fight, any wayward cc (even a slow) and you are stuck. What it does allow for is the ability to stick to targets or move onto other targets over short distances. The heal and cc removal let Rengar walk out after eating some retaliation.

Not like Rengar ever did scale into teamfights with a full AD build unless hideously ahead. He would go in and die after deleting someone in .4 seconds, similarly to what he does now but with at least a semblance of fairness for the enemy ADC.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Rengar wouldn't always die after deleting the enemy ADC.. That is simply not true..

And his Q is dodgeable in the sense that when i start my leap the target can use the dash etc to avoid it. Sure if you're running someone down and you are already sticking to them then yah ill agree, its pretty much impossible to dodge.. But when Rengar needs it to apply the most -his ult- its very easy to avoid.

Baron of Bread1 votes

He would go in and die if he wasn't horribly ahead, at which point instead he killed everyone. He occasionally made it out alive if the enemy team was busy dealing with the rest of Rengar's team or something.

The dash avoiding Rengar's damage has always been a weakness of Rengar. You could dash away from the old ult and thus prevent him from autoattacking you when he landed. This didn't really change that and it still takes really impressive reflexes to get away from it. Note: his leap range is 725 and camouflage vision radius is 700.

Dreadlocks1 votes

You could dash away from the old ult and thus prevent him from autoattacking you when he landed. This didn't really change that and it still takes really impressive reflexes to get away from it.

Did you forget that old rengar could empower E with his ult?

Baron of Bread1 votes

I did not. If you have the reflexes to dodge the jump (and subsequent Q) then your reflexes can also dodge the bola.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Before bola had a cast animation it was pretty easy to catch ppl like ezreal.. Def way more reliable than now.

Baron of Bread1 votes

It has had a cast animation as far as I can remember (and you can see the animation in the champion spotlight). There was a time where the animation could be hidden (and I think cast time ignored or being able to be thrown mid-air), but I don't know if that is still a thing that can be done (and I don't think that is a thing that should be able to be done on any champion). Still, if you are blinking/dashing away from a Rengar exiting stealth you can probably dodge the projectile that doesn't travel faster than him.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Rengar's way out of a fight before was the insane MS he got after breaking stealth. That alone is more acceptable on an assassin than BS healing and CC immunity.

flat ms would help him to get out... but not more than cc immunity. And its not an assassin tool. Its divers tools (totaly legit).

I'm not saying Rengar can't 1 shot anymore. But building him full AD is suicide when faced with 5v5. He simply doesn't scale into late game for shit with full AD.

Assassins aren't good in 5v5, mainly in late game.

Dreadlocks1 votes

flat ms would help him to get out... but not more than cc immunity. And its not an assassin tool. Its divers tools (totaly legit).

Then keep the CC immunity? But remove the heal.. Seriously.. i know its good but it doesnt fit.. Put power elsewhere in his kit.

Assassins aren't good in 5v5, mainly in late game.

Even after the assassin update there are assassins that do fine past 35 mins.. The thing though is Rengar is an early game assassin but a late game fighter in terms of item builds.. His damage isn't fast enough to warrant a full AD build. Thats why most Rengar players build warrior/bc then go tanky after. If Talon/Zed/Kha'Zix etc all the other assassins did that, they wouldn't be called assassins anymore.. or they at least wouldn't be very good ones. Hense why Riot is classifying Rengar as a diver now.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Then keep the CC immunity? But remove the heal.. Seriously.. i know its good but it doesnt fit.. Put power elsewhere in his kit.

i don't have much exp on Rengar... but i don't need much to figure how to play him. And i totaly agree, i don't understand why give him a heal... like dat.

His damage isn't fast enough to warrant a full AD build.

yeah

If Talon/Zed/Kha'Zix etc all the other assassins did that, they wouldn't be called assassins anymore..

I don't agree with that. I've seen many Talon go more bruiserish with item like item 3748 item 3053... (one of them was a D1-M1 kr).

Even after the assassin update there are assassins that do fine past 35 mins..

When i say aren't good, it dosn't mean they become useless.

I don't have issue to Rengar be a diver, but he isn't a great diver... And this is the real issue IMO.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Just switch his name place in assassin class won't change anything lul. He was already an diver pre rework. Some divers build full AD too (Wukong in first place...)

Dreadlocks1 votes

Regardless of what his subclass was, he was a reliable champion to 1 shot carries with much like Zed and Talon.. But now he isn't. And that is my point.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Yeah i agree, but his old version was stupid af. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW_st2H2Y2Y

During the first part of this year he was able to OS. Riot will adress him... maybe like rek'sai.

Dreadlocks1 votes

This was also before they gave his ! more warning, and when Tiamat had more damage, brutilizer was in the game.. and LW was op as hell.. So basically half the reason or more that even happened was the items.

Stupid, but still an assassin, now bruiser.. cmon man thats not fair for any1's main.

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