Illaoi is a great design but I feel like she's balanced too far into extremes

Moody P··12 votes·6,787 views

just going off the top of my head:

  • obscenely long delays on 3 spells; casting them all in order Illaoi CCs herself in place for about 3 seconds
  • very immobile around her spawns but no way to keep you there
  • high setup time and reliance on a slow, narrow skillshot that can be blocked means she MUST be bursty

all this wraps up into her current situation which IMO diminishes the cleverness in her design. It feels really all-or-nothing, in a way that even though Illaoi is provably a very high skillcap champion since she has one of the highest winrate deltas through experience in top lane, I don't really get a chance to express it in a consistent manner and my fights usually go down to one of two situations; I instagib everyone who is a possible threat to me, or I don't, I get kited and I die with minimal contribution.

Illaoi paints a big target on herself with how long her spells lock her in place; she's very easy to stunlock despite not having much answer for it herself.

I understand and can appreciate that Illaoi is very macro-focused and, much like Shaco, heavily relies on beating the player more than the champion, but I'd also like some changes that help me do the opposite; I'd like to be able to properly enjoy a teamfight or a duel for a little bit longer on her, so I can show that I am indeed a talented Illaoi.

Just as a thought I've been mulling over, I'd like to proposition something like;

  • Reducing her burst, probably by hitting the passive damage increase on her Q
  • Speeding up her spells, namely her E and her Q, just shaving like .2 seconds off of each
  • Giving her a haste when tentacles damage enemy champions - just 10% whenever a tentacle hits a champion would suffice

I think something like this would make her a lot better and more versatile without removing her from the natural niche that her kit fills itself into. Less burst makes her feel less bullshit to fight when she's fed, which I think is that big pain point that makes her such a terror for soloQ below Diamond, but now she'd be able to outplay opponents through using her new MS boosts to reposition inside her nests and juke skillshots as well as kiting melee opponents who trespass onto her turf.

I'm well aware that her being able to make very sudden 1vX turns and come out on top is a big part of her appeal, and it should stay part of her appeal, but in my opinion, slowing down the damage dump just a little bit would allow a nice retuning that lets Illaoi's potential as a champ design come to its full.

30 Comments

Spank the Fox16 votes

I like how you arbitrarily assigned Illaoi as “good design” because everything is telegraphed, but then complain about other telegraphed champions.

I especially love your suggestion about speeding her kit up when you still complained about Sion’s Q doing “too much damage” for how quick it is.

Immensely glad none of you guys are taken seriously

Moody P4 votes

i like how you make a bunch of shitty strawmen and not one real argument

immensely glad you wasted my time

KVbqbFsC8e5 votes

Great design haha.

Yeah, I really que for League to actually play some stupid tentacle dodging minigame.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ox3qOAhA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-25T02:51:11.610+0000)

Great design haha.

Yeah, I really que for League to actually play some stupid tentacle dodging minigame.

Same could be said for Velkoz Ziggs Zilean Zoe

I love the dodging mini game these champions force upon you.

GayFluffyUnicorn5 votes

Illaoi is a terrible design as are most juggernauts.

Moody P1 votes

incorrect

SithesisLord2 votes

Very much correct, actually. Juggernauts are by design stat-checks, because they have to be otherwise they can't presently function.

Until Riot figures out what to do to them, they'll always be badly designed.

Moody P1 votes

so are assassins, most divers, marksmen, and every enchanter besides nami

whoops I guess 70% of the game is badly designed

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ox3qOAhA,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T14:18:53.330+0000)

so are assassins, most divers, marksmen, and every enchanter besides nami

whoops I guess 70% of the game is badly designed

All Tanks. All Bruisers. All Juggernauts

Moody P1 votes

wrong on all 3 accounts. try again, ok?

SithesisLord1 votes

Well, i can see you are quite delusional and are not worth continuing a discussion with. Good day, citizen.

Moody P1 votes

"it's only a stat check if I say so"

don't come to a discussion forum if you debate like a third grader

SithesisLord1 votes

No, Juggernauts are stat-checks because they are designed like that.

Darius doesn´t kill you with some high level mechanics or outplays. He kills you by autoing you 5 times and getting a shit ton of AD.

And then autos you a 6th time to kill you.

Moody P2 votes

that's not a stat check. if it's windowed and requires a condition then it isn't a stat check

stat check is Mundo who has no down time on anything except his out, and his ult stilllasts for much longer than most duels and teamfights. there is no condition to achieve, no window for enemies to exploit. shyvana is the same way, Darius is not and neither are any of the juggernauts released after him from Illaoi to Aatrox

SithesisLord1 votes

If it's windowed and requires conditions then no champions are stat-checks.

chipndip11 votes

Don't do the thing where you say "cool downs are windows and thus...", that's not what "windowed" means.

SithesisLord1 votes

Aren't cooldowns windows of opportunities?

Moody P1 votes

out of the roster of juggernauts, you can call DrMundo Shyvana Udyr Nasus Garen stat checks and you would be correct, with Olaf Volibear only barely escaping the label thanks to Undertow and Volibear's anti-mobility spells. Despite popular boards belief, this is not "bad design;" they're just old champions built for an older version of the game.

Darius Illaoi Yorick Aatrox Urgot Yorick are all reliant on win conditions or skillshots that they have to work to achieve; they do not win purely off of numbers and are not stat checks

Onandaga4 votes

Her main problem is that she auto loses against any ranged champ that has a dash. At least nasus his W, darius has E, Garen Q, mundo/olaf Q to help them catch up to mobile/ranged champs. Illaoi has nothing but a tiny gapcloser and some ranged abilities that are easy as shit to dodge with dashes.

Moody P1 votes

actually she can do OK into most ranged matchups besides Viktor and Cass. Max Q and just play for poke and out shoving them and you'll be alright.

my harder matchups tend to be other fighters and good singed players

Full Brain1 votes

{quoted}

Her main problem is that she auto loses against any ranged champ that has a dash. At least nasus his W, darius has E, Garen Q, mundo/olaf Q to help them catch up to mobile/ranged champs. Illaoi has nothing but a tiny gapcloser and some ranged abilities that are easy as shit to dodge with dashes.

Those champions can't literally 1v9 in 2 seconds if they get on top of the enemy team. She gets to be a walking death trap that can zone the enemy team from objectives long enough to complete them.

F Ù Ń2 votes

She’s fine where she is. She’s a lane bully, juggernaut, and does massive damage. U go ahead with these proposed buffs, her nerfed burst will be compensated for a ton of molbilty, which is unhealthy. Notice a trend? Usually high dps/mage/ADC will be immobile.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

I personally disagree.

As far as Illaoi goes her thematic kit identity is "You move, I don't" Which works extremely well kit wise.

Illaoi's burst is balanced by her mass immobility and gated abilities. And she needs to be weak to CC as she NEEDS counterplay, giving her a way to deal with CC would be inane.

Illaoi is one of the few champions where 'stay away' is viable counterplay. As you can DEAL with her by doing that.As you kill her tentacles yourself, or she does herself it by moving away from them.(which she has too eventually)

As for giving her a haste, every illaoi player knows building boots + phage are first purchases for a reason. She doesnt need need MORE MS on top of what that item combo gives her.

Illaoi has got a niche gameplay Design because she was MADE to have one.

She's a giant muscled woman in a game with 80% hetero males as it's player base after all.

Moody P1 votes

Illaoi has plenty of counterplay already; her only damage that's guaranteed is W. Even during ult a savvy opponent can side step her damage and buy a lot of time in a duel.

also keep in mind that even if her chase became better she can't bring her tentacles with her. This doesn't reduce or remove any of the options playing her, but it shifts the actual fight from "I stepped too close for a second too long/Illaoi flashed onto my team and I got deleted" into Illaoi bursting a little slower but being able to out play opponents who now have more time to respond in turn

a giant muscled woman would make sense being dexterous I think.

JeaneGreene2 votes

Illaoi is just viable morde

SanKakU1 votes

Going on the fact that one of her abilities is literally her jumping on someone to deal damage, I think she should totally have movement speed boost somewhere in her kit. Good idea! But I will comment, 10 percent might be too high. It should be more like 1.5 percent per champion hit per tentacle or something like that. Her tentacle damage is an iconic part of her kit, so hitting it too hard would suck, but her getting Stormraider's Surge for free if she outplays the opponents significantly would be interesting.

Moody P1 votes

I think it's reasonable since W is only there to direct tentacles toward a target, and her sticking power is actually quite weak moving away from her spawns

the number might be too high but I think the idea is good

5050BS1 votes

I think that when she hits her E or someone has the test of spirit Debuff she should have a movement speed boost (like +10%)

Also her Ult needs to make her untargetable (think when Camille Ults) and Immune to CC for .5s after the animation.

Other then fixing the bugs of her W and E she would be set for play above Plat. Currently she is not good past gold.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Juggernauts work better in a slower meta. Right now assassins are strong, and tanks are unplayed so everyone's hopping about.

Moody P1 votes

it's not much to do with current meta. As long as you ban Viktor the only worry matchup is Irelia; marksmen are a bigger hurdle than assassins

It's more that I just think Illaoi can be done better and it would be of benefit to the game

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