I Think I Finally Understand What it takes to Climb

Woodakoodashooda·Jun 19, 2019·19 votes·10,076 views

And I honestly don't think it's worth it.

You have to treat the game like it's you plus 4 bots versus 5 opponents you have to treat like real people.

The bots you have on your side perform worse if you type anything in chat.

The bots on your side may or may not respond to pings; it's as though your allies have a built in RNG to decide that.

You cannot control what the bots on your side do, but you can try to influence their behavior by performing well yourself.

The allies you have in every match are hardly more capable than a super minion and they are all super aggressive and want kills above all else even at the cost of winning.

So, in order to climb. You have to perform well in your role and when you've accomplished at least that much, proceed to do the work of each of your other allies. Because they are wholly unreliable.

34 Comments

BLACK REALM GODJun 19, 20199 votes

yep. pretty much.

which is why people are trying to invent effective strats for climbing that don't require the assistance of your team in order to win. however, because it's not meta they get banned. so there you go.

WoodakoodashoodaJun 19, 20192 votes

This isn't that topic of discussion. Take it elsewhere, please.

BLACK REALM GODJun 19, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T01:46:28.346+0000)

This isn't that topic of discussion. Take it elsewhere, please.

the topic of discussion is

"I think i finally understand what it takes to climb"

and then you complain about your teammates being useless and talk about how you have to carry them.

so i'd argue that it IS part of the discussion to bring up how players who try to make the best of a bad situation are disliked by the community.

i didn't name any specific instances so whatever assumptions you've made or personal grudge you hold please direct it elsewhere. this is a forum for discussion. not a battleground for unsupervised children.

have you tried forming a team and playing in flex queue?

PlsTouchMeGentlyJun 19, 20191 votes

lmao. This dude is Iron 3; that explains how he could think Nubrac climbed using his teemo "strat". He has a 48% winrate on it. He climbed using Leona and Amumu, and griefs with Teemo when he's in games with streamers.

SirPurrrJun 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gaijin Bengoshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T19:10:26.873+0000)

lmao. This dude is Iron 3; that explains how he could think Nubrac climbed using his teemo "strat". He has a 48% winrate on it. He climbed using Leona and Amumu, and griefs with Teemo when he's in games with streamers.

that's not accurate

he played Teemo A LOT and certainly not just with streamers

48-52% isn't even unusual and just implies you're at the skill level you deserve

you can go back and forth between those win rates based on match making itself

there's always variance in win rates. it's obviously not just your own play

his strategy was suboptimal but he was still trying to make it work and he wasn't taking cs unless the laner left. if we're going to ban people for suboptimal strategies then please ban Ashe support, Ezreal mid and all manner of other troll picks that people sometimes pull out in ranked. I pretty much have to dodge games like that and I'd actually have more confidence in the Teemo since he played it for hundreds of games. it may not be getting him LP but it isn't losing much either so his impact overall is pretty neutral. now, if he had a 30% win rate doing this over that many games, sure, it's clearly trolling.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJun 20, 20191 votes

Yeah, he played teemo a lot, but he mostly did this “strat” when with streamers. Otherwise he would play normal teemo support.

God, 95% of these people defending this idiot have only ever been ranked silver or below. I don’t know if none of you understand XP leaching, his zero communication with teammates, or the fact that literally no one in his elo wants to play with him, but man, is it telling to see who is defending him.

SirPurrrJun 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gaijin Bengoshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T02:58:43.797+0000)

Yeah, he played teemo a lot, but he mostly did this “strat” when with streamers. Otherwise he would play normal teemo support.

God, 95% of these people defending this idiot have only ever been ranked silver or below. I don’t know if none of you understand XP leaching, his zero communication with teammates, or the fact that literally no one in his elo wants to play with him, but man, is it telling to see who is defending him.

Are you sure about that? I didn't watch his previous games but on his stream he said that he was doing it regardless of who he was playing with.

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-19T01:21:29.310+0000)

yep. pretty much.

which is why people are trying to invent effective strats for climbing that don't require the assistance of your team in order to win. however, because it's not meta they get banned. so there you go.

It’s almost like he climbed with Amumu, Leona and NORMAL Teemo support, go through his vods/replay. Not even 1/8 of his teemo games are that bullshit strat.

Stop advocating for troll...

Luther King Jr VJun 19, 20193 votes

at first i thought u meant gold funneling but turns out u mean 48% winrate sup mid teemo and dare to call it effective

Malix FarwinJun 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-06-19T15:19:19.424+0000)

at first i thought u meant gold funneling but turns out u mean 48% winrate sup mid teemo and dare to call it effective

I know a ton of people(see it all the time actually) who play champs they have sub 40% WR. Does that mean they are trolling when they lock them in?

Luther King Jr VJun 20, 20191 votes

if you have bad winrate cause you are not very good that's not bannable that person is challenger and is trolling to get that bad winrate

MagicFlyingLlamaJun 19, 20196 votes

The bots you have on your side perform worse if you type anything in chat.

You: Say anything in chat

Them: LOL U MAD? U MAD TRASH LMAO KS LOL

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

ToxicDingleberryJun 19, 20193 votes

I think I heard this once:

40% of your games are pre-determined losses based on factors outside your control 40% of your games are pre-determined wins because the other team lost this coinflip 20% of your games are in your control where your play will make the difference between win or loss

5050BSJun 19, 20191 votes

So this is why people get hard stuck.

40% + (x% of 20%) = your Win %

Riot LP gain/loss makes it so you HAVE to run 65+% to climb which is not possible once Riot screws your MMR by getting more then 40% bad coin flips.

Once an accounts MMR is fked you are stuck.

Josh SandJun 19, 20192 votes

What it takes to climb is a change in your current mentality and your level of game knowledge. Thats literally it.

Dope SoloJun 19, 20191 votes

There's a life changing platitude, you should write books.

Try queuing with a competent friend.

SirPurrrJun 20, 20192 votes

this is wrong on so many levels... especially as you climb higher

moreover, just attitude and solo carry mentality doesn't get you a good rank automatically

in fact, it's often counterproductive in Plat+ and you may be throwing games purely because of it

YaraUwUJun 19, 20191 votes

Yes to climb you need to only focus on yourself and playing the best you can. Go figure.

Relying on your teammates is simply inefficient i mean its 5 random people at 5 random skill lvls vs another team of 5 random people at 5 random skill levels its a cluster fuck at every elo.

The only factor you can fully control is yourself, thats why everyone plays carries in solo queue.

Malix FarwinJun 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes to climb you need to only focus on yourself and playing the best you can. Go figure.

Relying on your teammates is simply inefficient i mean its 5 random people at 5 random skill lvls vs another team of 5 random people at 5 random skill levels its a cluster fuck at every elo.

The only factor you can fully control is yourself, thats why everyone plays carries in solo queue.

Thats not what he said he literally said " proceed to do the work of each of your other allies" Pretty much saying you need to do other pl's job because you cannot trust them to do it themselves its is completely true. When you are playing a 5v5 game just focusing on yourself is not enough.

The KombinatorJun 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-19T00:55:01.229+0000) The allies you have in every match are hardly more capable than a super minion and they are all super aggressive and want kills above all else even at the cost of winning.

Yea i experienced this a few times. Enemy nexus is attackable, and we are there, but instead of quickly destroying it let's attack the enemies on start, or run into nexus turret to dive.

Turtles Are OkayJun 19, 20191 votes

That and literally play 700-800 games a season without being bad. You just have to be willing to learn from your mistakes, understand the game overall and you hit diamond. If you don't, even after tryharding so much, then it's just not meant to be.

Heko The ManJun 19, 20191 votes

i gave up on climbing in season 6, that was 3 years ago. it takes too much effort and it's time consuming and it's all mental. till then i just smurf and have fun

JarringJun 19, 20191 votes

Yeah I guess. There are plenty of players that do listen to you and react to pings though. Especially if you're not an obnoxious asshole about it.

But yeah games can definitely be won by keeping quiet. Other times, I've had to speak up in order to get others on the team to stop arguing and start actually playing the game, and sometimes we end up winning the game as a result. Usually when I have to do something like that, I'd be playing support. Otherwise, I'd normally just ignore it, but I'll sometimes speak up to calm down the team even if I'm the carrying anyways. Sometimes them cannon minions on your team are necessary. Mostly to be a distraction though. Lemme tell ya it's a heck of a lot harder if those distractions weren't there at all from the beginning.

TBH though, I think the main important skill to being good at mobas is having all the cooldowns for every champion in the game memorized, and constantly in the back of your mind.

I started playing mobas back in 2004-2006 or so. Somewhere around there, and though I "learned the game on a single hero", I didn't actually get good at it until I learned and got good at every hero in the game, so that I knew exactly what each and every other person had at their disposal at any given point in time.

The information is there, free to learn. It's up to you to have that knowledge and use it for yourself.

WoodakoodashoodaJun 19, 20191 votes

Believe me, I have tried providing sound advice to my allies. It's always ignored. I even warned them ahead of time 'Do that and you will die'/'Go there and you will die'.

They do it anyways and die within 5 seconds of my prediction. Every time. There's even an area of the map I lovingly call the Circle of Death. It's in the jungle near allied wolves. I call it that because no matter what team I am on, allies frequently rush into that area soon as an enemy makes themselves visible and, suddenly, the 3 allies who went in die to 5 organized enemies because there's no exit. It's literally a circular maze surrounded by impassible terrain; allies go in and they don't come back out.

I know the behavior of players in game. I know that they're going to do stupid things regardless of warnings or how stupid said thing is, and there's nothing I can do or say to stop it. So, I just ping them once or twice, no more than twice because no one likes ping spam. And then watch them do it anyway and watch them die doing it. Every time.

JarringJun 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-06-19T09:44:32.948+0000)

Believe me, I have tried providing sound advice to my allies. It's always ignored. I even warned them ahead of time 'Do that and you will die'/'Go there and you will die'.

They do it anyways and die within 5 seconds of my prediction. Every time. There's even an area of the map I lovingly call the Circle of Death. It's in the jungle near allied wolves. I call it that because no matter what team I am on, allies frequently rush into that area soon as an enemy makes themselves visible and, suddenly, the 3 allies who went in die to 5 organized enemies because there's no exit. It's literally a circular maze surrounded by impassible terrain; allies go in and they don't come back out.

I know the behavior of players in game. I know that they're going to do stupid things regardless of warnings or how stupid said thing is, and there's nothing I can do or say to stop it. So, I just ping them once or twice, no more than twice because no one likes ping spam. And then watch them do it anyway and watch them die doing it. Every time.

I've heard similar things before, but sorry I don't believe you. "this always happens every single time no matter what I do" etc. etc. It might have happened before, but it's not going to happen every time no matter what. Would you believe me if I told you people respond and react and do the things I ask them to more often than not? Even in normals? The majority of my time spent playing mobas is in DotA Allstars, Heroes of Newerth, and DotA 2, however...where teamwork and communication was more important, and everyone understood.

Regardless, though I don't ping or type much, people respond and react to me more often than not when I do. Though not everyone is equally skilled at the game, I try to treat everyone with the same amount of respect.

WoodakoodashoodaJun 19, 20191 votes

Then don't believe me. Your experiences are not my experiences.

JarringJun 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T10:29:06.083+0000)

Then don't believe me. Your experiences are not my experiences.

True, but what if I played a game with you and responded to your pings? Would you then have the same outlook you do now? Or would the game instantly become revolutionized?

catchickJun 19, 20191 votes

Win your lane to increase your chances of winning the coinflip. If you don't win your lane then you might win the coinflip and still lose due to you.

OleandervineJun 19, 20191 votes

To climb, you have to not be afraid of failure. That's the #1 reason why people end up doing so poorly and getting stuck in "ELO hell." If you're afraid of losing and afraid of those little numbers showing -17 or 0, you WILL get tilted when things go poorly, and it WILL negatively affect your mental state in your next game if your previous game was a loss. You'll get stressed, you'll get hyper aggressive and be prone to snapping at your team mates when they make poor choices, and overall you'll just not be in a good mental state to climb. It doesn't help to have such a volatile mood. You've got to be resilient, you've got to understand that losing is part of the process and not let it affect you to your core. Accept that it WILL happen, and you'll find that you'll be more unphased by things that go wrong, and have a better attitude that might help you turn it around without spiraling into despair.

UrarakaJun 19, 20191 votes

So, in order to climb. You have to perform well in your role and when you've accomplished at least that much, proceed to do the work of each of your other allies. Because they are wholly unreliable. *Applies to all roles except support.

Jennifer420Jun 19, 20191 votes

but then you realized you play support. you do awesome but jinx-bot is just so shit its impossible to win.

JarringJun 19, 20191 votes

oh this guy is bronze/iron? no wonder. No bro, that's not what it takes to climb ranked. All it takes to get to at least gold is just being relatively decent at the game. Learn the optimal builds, learn your champion, learn the game in general. Don't do stupid noob shit mistakes that I learned over a decade ago. Dodge skill shots, I guarantee you that even in gold they will throw their skill shots in a straight line directly towards your noob asses, and they are easy as shit to dodge if you have half of a brain. Learn how to position yourself to gain opportunities to most effectively land and dodge skillshots(even though you don't even need a skill like this in shit bronze). This is where having all those crazy dashes overloaded champions like Akali and Irelia have come into play, and why it's so easy for skilled players to climb the ladder with them. Learn wave management, get better at CS, ward, and start to pay attention to the minimap as often as possible so that what wards you or your team places actually make a difference, and pay attention to pings so that you can respond to them and act accordingly. this might get you to climb to plat or even diamond. Putting all of this together among other things like team composition, matchups, counters, memorization of all champion cooldowns, etc. will catapult you into master and beyond. It's not that hard, there's not a lot to learn, just playing the game a LOT every day should naturally reward players with all of these skills. Other mobas are much more demanding and not nearly as straightforward as this game.

JarringJun 20, 20191 votes

and just fyi, just because i only ever play normal games(and don't play a lot of LoL in general) doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm willing to bet I've played mobas for longer than anyone here. I played with clan TDA, which is where all the professional dota players congregated(the very first professional players of mobas). One of the first things I learned in clan TDA was not to chase people uphill. Beforehand, all I did was pubstomp, though I was good at the game, I had never played with a full team of skilled players against a full team of skilled players. It was always one sided before TDA or the throneit mod. Chasing someone uphill is equivalent of chasing someone into a huge bush, that could very likely have another member of their team or multiple members of their team inside the fog of war right up that hill, which won't be known until it's too late. Before, chasing people uphill was no big deal, teams were never coordinated in pubstomps. Same reason people like to have blue trinket to ward bushes before they get too close where a yellow trinket wouldn't do. Just getting close enough for the yellow trinket would spell your demise. Of course there are plenty of examples, I'm just saying, I'm not an idiot just because I don't play much LoL, and skill does in fact translate across mobas. Maybe not the other way around as much, because there's a lot more you have to be aware of in DotA, but skill in DotA definitely translates into LoL.