So toplane, midlane, botlane, jungle is buying ninja tabi

Ahristocats·Mar 13, 2017·133 votes·8,484 views

challenger adcs on EUW are buying it on ezreal lucian jhin varus and mf mages are buying it mid supports are rushing it after sightstone

why? because it's THE ONLY decent armor item against lethality, making it a must-have at the cost of all other boots

No other armor items allow you to survive as a squishy in early/mid game and you need to survive to play this game Which is why it was never built on adcs+mages before this meta 12% damage reduction on only AA when you have 1000 hp is fcking trash the reason those squishies buy it is to counter lethality due to 30 armor

thanks to Riot for nerfing armor since 5 seasons, and buffing lethality this year.

190 Comments

ValyrianBladeMar 13, 201739 votes

Is it necessarily just lethality?

I mean, I see how lethality has become popular followed by ninja tabi.

I don't understand how lethality being strong makes tabi necessary though...

Tabi reduces all damage taken from basic attacks by 12%. Meanwhile, lethality is strongest on AD Casters like Jayce or Varus who can repeatedly send out powerful long range poke from safety and decimate the health bars of squishies before a fight (thereby making it a won fight). Tabi's passive does nothing against that - they're no better than any other 30 armor item in that case. Really, I think tabi are popular because they provide the little bit of armor that's so important against lethality (the first 30 armor against someone with two lethality items completely negates all of their lethality at level 18).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the formula would work out to: Let's assume a level 13 Ezreal with 9 armor seals for a total of 69.2 armor, against someone with 7% armor pen and they're not running lethality marks.

No armor built: 100 / (100 + 69.2*0.93 - 30) = takes 74.43% physical damage

Ninja tabi is only armor (30) 100 / (100 + 99.2*0.93 - 30) = takes 61.63% physical damage

Builds a 60 armor item: 100 / (100 + 129.2*0.93 - 30) = takes 52.59% physical damage

Notice how 61.63 / 74.43 = 82.8%, or equivalently that first 30 armor reduced his damage taken by 17.2%. Now 52.59/61.63 = 85.3%, or equivalently the next 30 armor only further reduced 14.7% of damage taken. That's 2.5% less effective (or in percentage of the first difference, 14.5%) for the second 30 armor than the first 30 armor.

Basically what I'm saying is, they want to invest in a little armor, but don't want to take away too much of their build to invest in a lot of armor because it has diminishing returns. Ninja tabi allow you to give up VERY little (a bit of Attack Speed that you can get a lot of anyways) in order to get the armor you want for cheap. There is no alternative really - any other armor item is going to set you back over 2K, give you other stats you don't want/need, and take up a full slot of your normal build (i.e. you're giving up on an AS or Lifesteal item).

I don't think ninja tabi is a specialist item against lethality. I think it's an item that allows efficient access to some basic armor that any champion can opt in to, and becomes important when lethality makes AD poke more popular. If anything, Tabi's passive would be much better in a crit-ADC meta where they're actually auto attacking a lot.

Linna ExcelMar 13, 201747 votes

Yes. Flat armor is a huge counter to lethality. An early tabi's basically cancels out the bonuses from 2 lethality items.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 14, 201716 votes

now lethality/armor pen users know how it feels to have all your gold be nullified

and even then ninja tabi doesn't take away very much

MelledoneusMar 14, 201722 votes

item 3035 Oh will you look at this convenient fucking item right here.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20172 votes

This item is balanced...

MelledoneusMar 14, 20176 votes

Far from it because of the nature of crit and lifesteal.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20172 votes

no true. It give only 10 AD, if some1 buy it early, it delay their spike. This item alone is to weak against Tank and useless against other class. U are a TAnk player so u already know (maybe) Tank are god like just with a item 3068 ... then with a item 3143 their unkillable unless adc have at least 2 full item and a item 3035 (and just with that isn't enough to be a threat against tank).

Tank are godlike early-mid, adc are... in late. Its fair. When ull understand this u'll climb

MelledoneusMar 14, 20171 votes

And when you climb you'll realize there is less top lane diversity with less tanks, and that LW is a staple item for every AD who wants to bend tanks over.

10 AD is nothing compared to the shit ton of penetration you get on LW.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20175 votes

That's why Shen & Nautilus are permapick in lck [zombie-brand-clap] 10 AD is nothing... unless u have already a good base damage. try to go as MonkeyKing Talon against Malphite Poppy Shen just with a weak item 3035 .

LW is weak af if u haven't ad enough

MelledoneusMar 14, 20177 votes

Of course you're not going to rush LW because you don't need it early. Also, Wukong and Talon can just rush black cleaver and destroy any tank stacking armor because of the naturally high base and scaling damage they have.

Armor is a joke in this meta. It works for like 10 minutes and then your enemy buys the magical item to make you useless.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 14, 20171 votes

Wukong high base damage ??? is it a joke ?? High base damage are tank and jugger who can go full tank, or just stick with item 3071 then full tank. Thats why it work.

If both player are at same level, tank will destroy Wu or Talon. And its normal btw, its not their job to take down a tank. Armor is all except a joke.

MelledoneusMar 14, 20177 votes

Please name one tank (besides Poppy and Maokai) who can build full tank and deal more damage than a Wukong building damage.

PermabannedGarenMar 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Please name one tank (besides Poppy and Maokai) who can build full tank and deal more damage than a Wukong building damage.

Poppy and Maokai also don't deal more damage than a Wukong building damage.

That isn't what he said though. He specified that Wu doesn't have high base damage.

Oakleaf RangerMar 14, 20172 votes

Seriously most of the meta and popular top/jg champions are AD. I'm getting tabi not really for the aa reduction but for the early cheap armor so I don't get bursted immediately while still building damage items before I get solid armor/mr items.

BastionKrossMar 13, 201730 votes

Rioter 1: We may have made lethality too strong. Rioter 2: Maybe. Maybe not. Nothing to be done now. Rioter 1: We could revert it. Rioter 2: We would be admitting fault if we did that. Rioter 2: And we're Riot Games. We don't do that. Rioter 2: ...Unless it's Ryze, then we're wrong once a season. Rioter 2: But that's more of a tradition, really. Rioter 3: Fellas, that latest numbers are in. Rioter 1: Results? Rioter 3: Players are combating our lethality buffs by mass purchasing Tabis. Rioter 2: How about that, the problem solved itself. Rioter 3: Players are buying them in every role, boot diversity is at an all time low. Rioter 1: How do we handle this? Rioter 2: Simple, nerf Tabis.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

RainXBladeMar 14, 20174 votes

Welcome to Riot Games, where we encourage diversity in every single thing we touch to the game, which is non-existent!

My Waifu VanillaMar 14, 20177 votes

I mean....Ghostblade has been nerfed and EoN has been hit with 3 nerfs so you make it sound like they haven't even bothered with touching the items. Duskblade is the only Lethality item that hasn't been nerfed and that is solely because the item is pretty garbage on 60%+ of lethality users. Also, the only ADC that will probably even buy Lethality on a consistent basis now is going to be Jhin since MF and Varus are now pretty pigeon holed into AS+Crit builds and Lucian is currently rocking BoRK+Trinty/Black Cleaver.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 14, 201712 votes

Looks like everyone can be a flippin' ninja this season.

Sidenote: Why do boots called Ninja Tabi give armor? I was under the impression that Ninja didn't wear that much armor.

abca98Mar 14, 20178 votes

Ask Shen.

IPERFECTOMar 14, 20174 votes

Because they used to give 12% dodge long time ago, and after they remove dodge from the game they change it to %aa damage reduction, but name remains still unchanged.

TaliyahcMar 13, 201711 votes

Can we just revert to what we had before lethality by this point...

MoetaroMar 13, 201711 votes

They are just idiots, they'd rather screw the whole fucking game better than admit that all that lethality stuff was shit and a mistake.

That's what idiots do when they make a mistake, and that's why I called them idiots, not insulting, just stating the obvious.

ShahamutMar 14, 20179 votes

Im buying them because their are always 3 or more AD champs in my games... :/

CanastusMar 14, 20179 votes

Sucks to be me, I can't even buy boots. Cassiopeia

yoshi2790Mar 14, 20173 votes

item 3742 Cassiopeia doesn't AA alot, so always +60ms 500hp and 50 armor! :-D

SaevumMar 14, 20173 votes

add item 3285 into that, and swoosh!

PermabannedGarenMar 13, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-13T22:06:15.163+0000)

why? because it's THE ONLY decent armor item against lethality, making it a must-have at the cost of all other boots

No, it's because the item is actually broken. The amount of damage mitigation against physical damage you get for 1,100 gold (plus the movement speed) is insane.

SpoofghoulMar 13, 201746 votes

meanwhile item 3046

AirKingNeoMar 13, 20179 votes

Both are broken.

No shocker here Pence.

AhristocatsMar 13, 201733 votes

YES THE ITEM IS BROKEN WHY DIDN'T I THOUGHT ABOUT IT EARLIER?

OH YEAH It's because i have a memory making me remembering that the item was NEVER built on ADCS mages and supports before lethality

PermabannedGarenMar 13, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-03-13T22:58:14.950+0000)

YES THE ITEM IS BROKEN WHY DIDN'T I THOUGHT ABOUT IT EARLIER?

OH YEAH It's because i have a memory making me remembering that the item was NEVER built on ADCS mages and supports before lethality

Your argument relies on the assumption that people, even challenger players, just instinctively realize the best way to play something is. It is entirely possible that ninja tabi has been the better option for a while, but few people were willing to change their builds to use them.

Critmaster GarenMar 13, 201716 votes

{quoted}

Your argument relies on the assumption that people, even challenger players, just instinctively realize the best way to play something is. It is entirely possible that ninja tabi has been the better option for a while, but few people were willing to change their builds to use them.

as far as ive seen the few LCS games in which a team was buying 5 item 3047 like the Mordekaiser game, almost the entire enemy team consisted of lethality stacking adc and assassins.

the surge of lethality stacking 4 ad teamcomps and ninja tabi being built is clearly correlated.

HateDaddyMar 14, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=0003000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-13T23:57:12.926+0000)

as far as ive seen the few LCS games in which a team was buying 5 like the game, almost the entire enemy team consisted of lethality stacking adc and assassins.

the surge of lethality stacking 4 ad teamcomps and ninja tabi being built is clearly correlated.

There weren't really that many "lethality stacking" team comps actually. You had a fairly mixed balance but you're still seeing mostly AD junglers because all other junglers are trash. Considering that and you're laning against an AD yourself as an ADC, yeah tabi make sense. You saw Ziggs bot pretty frequently too.

MelvearMar 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

There weren't really that many "lethality stacking" team comps actually. You had a fairly mixed balance but you're still seeing mostly AD junglers because all other junglers are trash. Considering that and you're laning against an AD yourself as an ADC, yeah tabi make sense. You saw Ziggs bot pretty frequently too.

Jayce mid, Graves/khazix/rengar jungle, jhin/varus bot has been played a ton, and there have been games with jayce top and zed mid as well.

If not for this meta, tabi would be just as good as an item, it just wouldn't be necessary because there wouldn't be teams stacking 3-4 damage champions that are AD based. You'd get the classic mage/enchanter support, adc, ap mid laner, tank/carry top and tank/fighter jungle. In which case, tabi would still be nice, but pro carries can actually count on their team to peel massively for them and enable them to buy more offensive options.

Bouncemaster ZacMar 14, 20178 votes

I'm going to be beyond upset when Riot inevitably nerf Tabi instead of the problem items and champions that lead to everyone buying them

Linna ExcelMar 13, 20177 votes

Revert leathality buffs perhaps?

THE RlVER KlNGMar 14, 201720 votes

revert lethality

revert the ADC rework

revert the MYMU

revert tower first blood

revert RNG dragons

revert the assassin rework

go back to pre-Juggernaut patch when the game was actually fun

Only Play DariusMar 14, 20176 votes

Juggernaut patch was the most fun....

THE RlVER KlNGMar 14, 20178 votes

says the darius main.........

HateDaddyMar 14, 201715 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-14T01:08:01.414+0000)

Juggernaut patch was the most fun....

I'd say post juggernaut patch, not the juggernaut patch itself because many juggernauts were busted initially. Once they were balanced though, I agree that it was one of the most balanced states league has ever been in.

SkorchMar 13, 20176 votes

Im sorry but this post is ridiculous. I was expecting a "Ninja Tabi is REALLY strong" post, but instead i get another lethality post?

The claim "THIS IS THE ONLY GOOD ITEM AGAINST LETHALITY" Is not only a ridiculous claim, but a wrong one. All its showing is that armor IS effective against lethality, Tabi is the most gold efficient armor item for nontanks and its so cheap that every role can buy it to protect them from it without sacrificing virtually anything.

AhristocatsMar 13, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Tabi is the most gold efficient armor item for nontanks and its so cheap that every role can buy it to protect them from it without sacrificing virtually anything.

and why do they need to buy it unlike before? we didn't have ths before, tabi had its niche and wasn't built by adcs

SkorchMar 13, 20172 votes

Let me reiterate, Lethality definitely still has its issues. But claiming that the ONLY item against Lethality thats good is Ninja Tabi is just a horrible claim.

Its strong because its a cost efficient item that champs that usually have NO ability to build armor can build.

Critmaster GarenMar 13, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Let me reiterate, Lethality definitely still has its issues. But claiming that the ONLY item against Lethality thats good is Ninja Tabi is just a horrible claim.

Its strong because its a cost efficient item that champs that usually have NO ability to build armor can build.

its the only armor item that is worth a damn to reduce auto attack damage aswell.

imo there are two factors to why item 3047 became such a good buy compared to other armor items.

the first is that its armor counters early lethality stacking.

the second is, that the recently buffed item 3035 item 3153 dont leave much choice in armor items to defend against auto attack damage anymore. both health and armor purchases become lagely ineffective thanks to two items.

% damage reduction is currently the only defnsive stat that is effective despite the enemy ignoring a major portion of your armor and dealing % health damage.

PermabannedGarenMar 13, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-13T23:52:23.013+0000)

its the only armor item that is worth a damn to reduce auto attack damage aswell.

imo there are two factors to why became such a good buy compared to other armor items.

the first is that its armor counters early lethality stacking.

the second is, that dont leave much choice in armor items to defend against adc damage anymore. both health and armor purchases become lagely ineffective thanks to two items.

% damage reduction is currently the only defnsive stat that is effective despite the enemy ignoring a major portion of your armor and dealing % health damage.

Far better reasoning for ninja tabi's sudden prominence than anything Rubick is saying tbh.

SkorchMar 14, 20177 votes

You forgot its the only universal item. There are no AD Armor Items, and the only AP Armor item is Zhonya

HaestroMar 14, 20176 votes

While early armor is good against lethality, pinning the blame on lethality making ninja tabi mandatory is a rushed conclusion. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1002110298?gameHash=78a6ef0995690dcc&tab=overview You can check the item builds for the other lcs games, but this is a good example to look at. Even in competitive play, where lethality stacking is becoming less and less popular after the nerfs, teams are still building a lot of ninja tabis. 4 people on clg have ninja tabi where the only lethality item built is one ghostblade by Jayce. Even Sneaky built ninja tabi when no one on the enemy team can utilize lethality well (and no one on clg builds lethality).

People are starting to build tabi abundantly because they have realized that it is 12% mitigation that there is simply no way to penetrate that value. It is also a cheap item which does not really interfere with damage dealers' item path. Blaming lethality and nerfing armor is a very poor conclusion because ad carries aren't going to build armor unless that stat is buffed to the point where it will become ridiculously overtuned for tanks. So the fact that they build tabi shows it doesn't really have to do with armor and that the item is just very powerful.

HateDaddyMar 13, 20175 votes

lmao

"The only decent armor item against lethality." What a hilariously stupid statement. Armor itself counters lethality. And Lethality isn't even that great anymore.

AhristocatsMar 13, 201717 votes

{quoted}

lmao

"The only decent armor item against lethality." What a hilariously stupid statement. Armor itself counters lethality.

if you know an other cost efficient early game item that you can buy without screwing yourself as an ADC or mage to not get shit on by lethality teach me the game hatedaddy

{quoted}

And Lethality isn't even that great anymore.

keep your lies for yourself

DunkinNoobsMar 14, 20175 votes

TIL that item 3047 , the anti auto attack item, counters AD casters that rarely auto.

It makes sense somehow, I'm sure. It's certainly not because Tabi's are just a stupidly efficient anti-AD item and AD mids and junglers are meta right now.