Attack of the Smurfs: How to protect actual new players from pubstomping smurfs?

CupcakeTrap··22 votes·6,775 views

http://bluebuddies.com/gallery/Smurf_Art_Showcase/gif/Impus_Art_Smurf_Attack.gif Alternate title: racist propaganda against Meglings.

I often hear that the new player experience often becomes "get matched with a bunch of smurfs looking to pubstomp, get called trash over and over again, quit." That's not good for them, or for the long-term health of LoL.

So, what should be done? I've created this thread as a place for people to discuss ideas for helping newer Summoners and protecting them from malevolent smurfs.

Types of Smurf

I can think of a few possible categories of smurf.

  • "I want to help my new friends." This person isn't being a jerk, but they're definitely going to be very skilled relative to their new account's MMR. They're in a genuinely difficult position, because if they play alongside their new friends, either on their high-level accounts or on a new account for which they've selected the high-skill option on the self-identification question, they're going to be throwing their friends into a chaotic mixed-skill matchup.
  • "I want to stomp newbies." This person is a toxic jerk. The default experience is supposed to be an even match. It'd be one thing if the other team had agreed beforehand that they want to play against much more experienced players, but they haven't. Pubstomping smurfs are also, presumably, the most likely to claim to be completely new when that pop-up appears asking about experience level.
  • "I got permabanned, so I made a new account." This is one of the main arguments advanced for a "prisoner's island" system.

The Problem

The system doesn't have much ability to quickly distinguish genuinely new players from smurfs. As a result, people can end up in games where others are dramatically better than they are. At best, these people will be friendly, openly admit that they're more experienced, and try to help the new people learn. I somehow do not think that this is the reality. More likely, based on what I've heard, the new people get eaten alive, while their teammates yell at them for not knowing the meta.

What To Do?

Anyone have any good ideas for what Riot could do to improve the new player experience in this regard? There are already systems to identify smurfs, but they do take some time to figure out who's who, and I could imagine someone quitting after being wrecked three or four times.

Some random ideas:

  • Give new people a pop-up message letting them know that the first few games may be pretty rocky as the system figures out how to place them, given the presence of smurfs. Take the opportunity to let them know about the Report feature, and encourage them to use it if anyone's a jerk to them.
  • At least for people who claim to be truly new when that "estimate your skill level" box appears, require a handful of co-op versus AI games with no chat. This will help new people learn to play, while giving the system at least a handful of games to measure KDA and other statistics to try to identify smurfs. Why no chat? Because when people are still figuring out how to move around, a stream of text from even friendly smurfs isn't that important, and there's a high risk of rage, especially if smurfs on the team find themselves losing to bots because of new players.
  • Make a more detailed tutorial than "Goooood jooooooob, Summoner! Now buy your thornmail to defeat Master Yi." (Have they already done this?) I recently tried out Dawngate, and it has a very good newbie single-player tutorial, which allows them to pause and read contextual explanations of game elements as they arise.
  • Provide a coaching mode where higher-level Summoners can spectate and chat with their friends.
  • It would, of course, be nice if Riot could improve its automatic smurf-detection as well.

Those are just some random conversation starters.

Prior Threads

Here are some threads from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on this topic.

44 Comments

ValyrianBlade10 votes

I think coop vs ai should be mandatory for anyone that doesn't indicate that they've played before. At a high level of skill intermediate should be unlocked and require 1 win to unlock pvp. At a low level of skill only beginner should be unlocked, require 2+ wins to unlock intermediate, and 2+wins there to unlock pvp. At completely new, require even more wins in beginner and intermediate.

I say this because I was a completely new player this April. I started by doing the tutorials, then beginner bots. I played about 7 games before getting the courage to try intermediate bots. I won my first intermediate game, lost the second and third but played well individually. I then played another couple beginners (for first win of day for a couple days) then finally had the courage to do pvp. In pvp, my games were fine. Yes I lost more than I won off the start, but I held my own in each game and had genuinely positive experiences. Maybe it was luck, but I only encountered a small number of "smurfs" and those I encountered often claimed to be in bronze (and were proud of it for some reason) so it's not like they were crushing anyone.

Fast forward after that experience, I regularly get placed in normal matches with people on accounts ranked in everything from silver to Diamond, and with smurfs claiming to be plat/Diamond. I gradually improved by getting gradually tougher opponents, and win or lose I got better each game. I found the introduction to league to be exceptional, but I would put a huge amount of that enjoyment as being the result of focusing on bot Games before trying pvp, and I think it makes good sense for riot to enforce that for players who indicate they don't know what they're doing.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

As I levelled up, my experience was similar to yours. I played one Intro match to figure how to move/attack, and then went to straight to Beginner bots. I eventually tried a bot match on Intermediate difficulty where everyone lost lane and the bots were up 29 in kills, but my team won anyway because we pushed mid lane. At that point, I decided that I should in no way move on to PVP until I could comfortably beat bots on Intermediate difficulty.

I, too, did not face many smurfs. IMO, the "I get matched with smurfs all the time" is a cop-out, and it shouldn't be happening unless you got into a League by someone who made a smurf account to play with you and mess with your record. If you get smashed into the ground because you don't have a grasp of the basics, it doesn't mean your opponents are smurfs.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

Exactly!

A lot of people really miss the basics. I actually played with someone last weekend that I know in real life, who referred me to the game. He was level 20 and still playing locked camera, had been using ghost/heal until I told him to grab flash a couple weeks earlier (and only last weekend told him to take ignite in mid laners typically), leveled up all his skills equally on every champion, and couldn't last hit for anything. At level 20. Thing is, he just plays how he plays; no guides or anything.

Over the weekend I got him to play more meta champions for the roles he was doing, changed his summoner spells, improved his last hitting (by telling him not to just constantly auto minions but instead harass and wait for a last hit), how to play more defensive, what order to level skills, and just before I left convinced him to play unlocked camera. From the sounds of his texts over the past few days he's enjoying the game a lot more again and is doing much better. The sad thing is he was getting really angry at it previously and really I didn't teach him anything beyond What's in almost every guide out there.

It just proved to me that there are players who don't take it seriously, they don't play games with the mindset of improving but with the mindset of just running around trying to kill people. If you play like that you'll do fine up until level 12 or so and then your opponents will all get way ahead of you with the basics and you'll be hopelessly left behind.

Minsk and Boo1 votes

tldr, suggestion: A guided 'career track' with targets (eg. CS, GPM, victory targets) that new players could play through. Beginner, Intro, Intermediate, ARAM, Summoner PvP. What if you were allowed to bring along a 'guide' on the process that you could duo lane with without affecting your or their account. I would really like this now that I'm bringing my wife into the game.

Longer version: "I decided that I should in no way move on to PVP until I could comfortably beat bots on Intermediate difficulty". ^^This

I was totally new to MOBAs when I started playing LoL and it was completely obvious to me as well.

If a smurf claims to be new and then goes to immediately play PvP, they lied. If a genuinely new player says they are new and goes immediately to PvP, they are going to get hurt. The game defaults to PvP which could be confusing but I hunted around for bots and played practically all my games to 30 on bots and I learned a chunk. Specifically I learned that jungling is not so easy. Getting face-rolled and abused by humans was not required.

There should be AI game minimums for new players and I think they should be much higher than 2. Genuinely new players with no MOBA experience should be playing 10+ beginner bot and 10+ intermediate bot games (and winning consistently) before considering PvP and then it should be ARAM for a while (IMO).

AnomalousChimera1 votes

I dislike ARAM because I can't choose the champion I use. I've played ARAM like two or three times total, and I had no clue what my champion did each of those times and just turtled behind other people. The playmode also seems chaotic compared to other modes, which is not something I like either.

I do agree that there should be a general 'track' (that is not set but based on performance since some people will naturally learn how to play the game faster than others do) that players should go through to help make beginners' experiences with the game more pleasant. And the only way to opt-out of this is to change one's keybindings. One who does that probably has a good idea about how he/she wants to approach/play the game.

Minsk and Boo1 votes

Yes, I just chose ARAM as an example because it's basically a no-rage zone.

I think it should be an easy opt-in or op-out, if I remember correctly xPeke said he just played PvP from day one, but then he's not exactly average. The most important part is that if you have not played a MOBA before, career should give a hassle-free introduction without having to hunt through menus that contain mysterious acronyms for game modes.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

I see your point, but I can't help but think that there will people who opt-out just because they think it's lame to have to go through the track, and you can have prior experience with a MOBA and still be pretty awful. Making it harder to opt-out decreases the likelihood of getting stomped, which I feel is a good thing as most people don't enjoy getting stomped.

Minsk and Boo1 votes

People who over-estimate their skill and opt-out would be in for the usual would of hurt. If they realise their mistake they can start the career.

The objective of the design is:

  1. It's too painful for a smurf to do the career by delaying their sadistic PvP fun
  2. It's easy for smurfs to not do the career so they choose this option and then match up with and against all smurf teams. Thinking of this amuses me
  3. It's easy and good for real newbs to do the career - with one button opt-in when you first load in
AnomalousChimera1 votes

Okay, I gotcha.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

If you indicate high skill, because you're a smurf for example, you have no ai game requirement. If you indicate skill from another game, small ai requirement, if you indicate no skill/new, large ai requirement. In the worst case there could be an option to revise your self assessment after 3 Games in case you're really stomping ai or really getting stomped in pvp.

0Scrap Metal01 votes

Some people play a PvP team game specifically to play with other people. I understand your idea, but it's a lot of hours of bs just to finally reach doing what a person started in this game to do.

On the plus side, smurfs would be somewhat discouraged by that extra work, if it was painfully forceful enough...

Honestly though, I think everyone should just start at level 30 right away. Noobs might have a lot more to take in, but smurfs will get sorted away from the noobs in a few games instead of a few dozen.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

If you indicate high skill, because you're a smurf for example, you have no ai game requirement. If you indicate skill from another game, small ai requirement, if you indicate no skill/new, large ai requirement. In the worst case there could be an option to revise your self assessment after 3 Games in case you're really stomping ai or really getting stomped in pvp.

FyreNinja5 votes

Oh please, please please become a more popular thread. My brother is just starting the game and constantly faces platnium players that tell him he "sucks for not grouping for dragon at 10 minutes" This game cannot continue to thrive without a steady influx of new players and League of Legends is doing its best to dissuade newbies from continuing to play....

Heedprime5 votes

summoner 6

It would be neat if there was a 'ghost' mode where players could actually join a game as a ghost. It could be exactly like spectating except they would control a 'ghost-champion' allied with their friend's team that was invisible to the enemy and invincible. There would really be no point to this compared to normal spectating except it would be live and you could help you allies out by using your ghost and chat in order to communicate things to your friend.

The 'ghost' would not be able to see any buildings, monsters, minions, or champions that his team was not revealing with fog of war. He would literally just be a second set of eyes that would help out his friend.

While this wouldn't prevent toxic smurfs from stomping new players, it would make a difference. A new player with a Plat smurf ghost in lane with them telling them when to use an ability and in which direction, to focus more on cs, to go for the kill, etc would be helpful in both teaching a friend how to play the game, keep the higher ranked player interested in playing with their friend despite not actually 'playing', and counter some of the negativity that comes with playing against smurfs.

Just an idea.

EDIT: I just thought of something that would enhance this feature. They could make 'ghost' specific skins. You could be a literal ghost, one of Yorick's ghosts, a minion, OR even the Helmet Bro!

summoner 6

Hizzlebomb2 votes

That's a cool idea. Not sure how hard it would be to implement for the Dev team but sure sounds awesome!

Decaedeus3 votes

Now that Riot has forced players to do Co-op vs AI, it should be fairly easy to distinguish. As a lv30, I still play frequent bot games/coop vs AI to get a feel for certain champs; however, I always end up around 40-0 or some absurd number like that. With a better system for distinguishing K/DA in bot games, it will be relatively easy.

As a player with a smurf myself, I have introduced many friends to League of Legends, and I often use this smurf to carry them through the first few bot games. While I could help them in Beginner and Intermediate difficulty Co-op vs AI, it became hard when they had finally mastered bots. They queued into the PvP, and went with them. All the games became quick, easy 20 minute pubstomps. Enemies would often complain about how my champions of choice (Akali Leblanc Syndra Katarina ) were broken. To solve this, I suggest bringing back Advanced bots. Advanced bots will have excellent (not perfect) CSing mechanics and much better decision making. This will prepare players fully for PvP, filling the massive skill gap between Intermediate and PvP.

Decaedeus1 votes

Note: While the second part doesn't solve the problem of the other two types of smurfs, it helps the well-intentioned smurf players.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

How hard would it be to code AIs that follow the meta and CS somewhat well? Currently, the bots on Intermediate difficulty are so bad that you can have a team all using a champion for the first time beat them.

TehNACHO2 votes

Isn't there already a system to detect smurfs and pair them up with each other?

It's why when you make a smurf account and ask who's a smurf, the entire team turns out to be smurfs.

apuig1 votes

this happens because they gain a good MMR while being at a low level so they are often matched together, in the way though they bash new players

Phàsing2 votes

They should implement a system where it checks your Ip and Matches it with any accounts under that ip and checks the current mmr or division the account its in to get a base level of skill

Slenderman2 votes

They should implement a system where it checks your Ip and Matches it with any accounts under that ip and checks the current mmr or division the account its in to get a base level of skill

Would never be able to work since thousands of people can be using the same IP in the form of public internet.

Maximum Morde2 votes

So, you listed three types of smurfs. What about the who simply have multiple accounts so they can dodge games with toxic players in the lobby without sitting unable to play for 30 minutes? That alone is the reason I oppose any method of trying to "punish" smurfs. I'm all for making detection better to get people to the correct MMR as fast as possible, and I personally am not good enough to be pub stomping, I guarantee you that. But, why should I be forced to play with some fool spamming nigger and all other sorts of hateful things, and why should I be forced to not play the game for 30 minutes if I choose to dodge said fool? The work around for me is having 5 accounts.

CupcakeTrap2 votes

I definitely don't want to punish smurfs. However, I think identifying smurfs is important, so that smurfs can be placed with other smurfs and "actually" new Summoners with other new people.

Dehorn2 votes

why does the new generation need to be coddled? you sound like entitled brats.

this is a fake issue. why? mobas started with no matchmaking at all. you were stomped until you learned the game. now league is the biggest game in the world and mobas are still thriving. you learn the basics by playing the tutorial, bots, and researching the game. playing against bad players does more harm than anything. you develop bad habits which delays your own skill development.

Splougy2 votes

Why should we coddle new players from toxicity like it doesn't exsist?

I for one learned how to play the game with people infinitely times more skilled than I at the game and dealt with the barrage of toxicity they spewed. In fact, dealing with players that are better than you is how you learn!

Quite frankly you're always going to have people who, if they stomp you in game, they will make sure you know it by telling you like you weren't there when it happened. It feels good to completely stomp a player and sooner or later we will all experience what it's like to face either someone or an entire team who lacks the coordination to bring you and your team a challenge.

Your argument is "new people are getting there feelings hurt". If they are so thin-skinned than they need to get splashed with a cold bucket of reality... You're going to deal with toxic slime, your going to deal with help, and the neutral by-standers who will neither provide help or ridicule.

We shouldn't be looking for ways to segregate the community so excessively (a small amount, like how the leveling system currently works is fine and ranked Match Making Rating, MMR for short). Sometimes the best learning experience is to get thrown in the deep end... you drown a little but that shouldn't discourage you from trying again.

INSTEAD we should make players who take the time to teach newbies the proper form to play the game. Encourage them to watch Gold+ Streams, read guides for a rough idea, and give quick helpful hits along with a complete rework of the champ page on the website since it is so direly in need of an update along with roles (Finding a champ by roles should only show PRIMARY roles so it's less confusing and perhaps a redefining of what roles actually mean!)

Slenderman1 votes

MMR normalizes very fast. I would say within 20-30 or so wins the large majority of them or by around level 10. I played with one friend that was around level 15 on a fresh account and played against mostly new players but as I played more games and I myself got to around level 10 we were playing against mostly smurfs. You notice it more when you are a smurf yourself because you don't lose your first handful of games to normalize your mmr to a noob level.

UPfreely1 votes

I think the system needs to place people faster and more accordingly with their performance.

Minsk and Boo1 votes

This is not possible for many reasons. Their performance on which day? on which champ? in which lane? against which matchup? did they just get lucky?

The solution is not to catapult smurfs out of low MMR because that will also accidentally catapult noobs out of low MMR.

Vegas Dad1 votes

Ya this is being over blown severely. It really isn't much of a problem nor is there really much of a solution for a f2p game.

Like recently played on a level 18 account of mine to play with a new friend prolly 20 games total. On average maybe 1 person per team was truly a new player, was very clear everyone else as in 90 percent of the players were not new and were on a second account. So you get stomped sorry you do learn from being stomped and playing vs experienced players. I certainly did when I was new.

Lastly I will say this and this is important almost every player who comes to post about being stomped by smurfs while playing on a low account are actually smurfing themselves and went to a lowbie account to try to lower the competition to experience greater success themselves and are pissed they still bumped into people who stomped them.

Like I said I spent 20 games on a level 18 account recently and honestly it felt pretty much like I was in gold level ranked matches aka everyone there was on smurf accounts cept my friend and maybe one other player

YOURGE3001 votes

Maybe instead of putting people in games with people who are the same summoner level, match them up by how well they do in games.

The Mormonator1 votes

Definitely Bumping this. I'm a seasoned player and I have been playing this game for years. I personally want new players to have an amazing and fun experience with this game and be able to learn it without the pressure of smurfs knowing a whole lot more than they do. So let's get these ideas rolling.

Musche1 votes

well, the new players are the ones getting pubstomped. title suggests that the new players are winning

TrianbleMan1 votes

There is another group of smurfs. I had my account compromised and reported it to RIOT. They restored my original account only to perma ban it a week later when whoever managed to gank it somehow convinced RIOT with 'proof' of something against their regulations and for some mind boggling reason RIOT would not actually disclose what this 'proof' was so that I could either know what not to do in the future or defend myself. So now I'm out an account that I probably spent $500+ on and had since pre season 1. Being forced to smurf I honestly don't care if I'm playing against other smurfs and I don't understand why any other smurfs would care if they were playing against other smurfs. It doesn't really matter if I'm grouped up against smurfs or not I still stomp most games. The games that you usually end up getting stomped in if you're a smurf is premade smurf teams against random pub games, especially with the chances of an AFK or rager on your team when it's random.

The only concession I would look into is having premade teams of 3 or more getting paired against other premade teams of 3 or more. I haven't looked into their matchmaking system much so it's possible this could already be setup this way. Sometimes I'll check the win ratio's of players I play with and against on this new account and for the most part I find that most players are %40-%70 win ratio in their last 10 games and I'm typically sitting at %90-%100. That probably won't change until I start getting paired against more premade teams.

Only Mid Veigar1 votes

My major issue with smurfs is the ones who don't have the skill to get out of Gold/Plat, so instead they make two or three alt accounts to also get to Gold/Plat playing stomp champions like Riven with the sole intention of "i suck too much to advance but i want to make my e-peen bigger"

tl;dr the toxic stompers should be banned.

TenSlashTen1 votes

Just get better. The only way you don't lose. Is you improve. Everyone likes winning but when you're beating people that are just as bad at you at league.. are you really improving? Can you honestly say you're improving?

I'm agreeing with you but I'm just gonna have to say not everyone who smurfs is toxic. Most of us just got sick of NA/(insert home server) and decided that it was time to branch out. For me I moved around quite alot. I tried EUW(imhervoice...I play alot of singed there) I moved my main to KR(http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=Jungle) I even currently have an LAN account that I just play ALOT of shaco on (http://lan.op.gg/summoner/userName=fromthewild)

I also have a few dead accounts on NA that I was trying out mains on that I'm too lazy to search their stats and post. But it is fun to make a new account get to 30 and play 1 champ in ranked just to see how far I can go in one season. Sometimes I got to high diamond Sometimes I didnt even get past plat. lol

I'm not gonna say there ISNT assholes who just want an "easy" win but theres alot less assholes than you think.

Diljic1 votes

Hilariously I have tried to be your category 1 smurf with my low level friends and what I assume are new players have been hostile to me when I try to offer advice. One game we had an ADC on our team who was having trouble and was complaining in chat. I went to look at them and realized they had literally no items. I told them if they recall to base by running back or pressing B and then hitting P they should buy items which would help them. I got told to shut up and not tell others how to play.

I've had other situations that weren't as extreme as that but I have stopped communicating at all on my low level account and only talk with my friends in voice chat.

edit after reading full text

especially if smurfs on the team find themselves losing to bots because of new players

There is no possible way a smurf is going to lose to bots unless smurf just means second account not taking skill into account at all.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

I've lately read a lot about people botting accounts until they reach level 30 and then selling them. Buyers of such accounts can be smurfs if they create second accounts even if they are terrible.

Metalrichdog1 votes

I remember when I was playing as a low level player, and really had no clue as to how things functioned. I was playing Darius in Co-op vs. AI Intermediate, then a Vayne mega smurf(Probably was bronze V on main with how poorly I remember the person playing. A good Vayne would be able to carry, even if one person didn't know what to do) came and wouldn't stop harassing me for every single last mistake I made. During the game, I never fought back against the person in chat, merely focused on what the person was telling me to do in order to make that kid silent. This.... Did.... NOT... HAPPEN. The kid kept on harassing me until the end of the game, before he had the audacity to go and report me for negativity. After this day, I really hated Vayne players by the feeling of bias. On top of this, players like these that smurfed so hard and played PvP on summoner's rift forced me to look towards other gamemodes to level up and have fun. From about level 15-30, I never played Summoner's Rift.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

In all honesty, it's one man's enjoyment versus another. Smurfs probably enjoy smurfing, and while it's a pity it happens at the expense of players, it also seems sort of wrong to just say they can't when it's not explicitly to harm the community. That kind of toxicity isn't nearly so rampant as to be that big an issue.

A player interested in playing the game will stick with it through loss and win to become better, I think. I agree that less toxicity in general would be nice, but that's an issue all its own and I think if we got rid of the toxicity (or whittled away at it) then smurfs would not be a horrible thing. It's when they're awful people that it's bad, and you said so yourself.

I think ideas should focus on how to quickly root out and extinguish toxic behavior, rather than restricting gameplay in any way.

Dawnpromise1 votes

What about people who just have game experience but don't want to play at high level due to opinions on game balance? I know I mayself want to go back to before masteries and runes decided matches. Also a League without flash, that right there is a game mode waiting to be made.

Matthias91191 votes

The system doesn't have much ability to quickly distinguish genuinely new players from smurfs.

They actually bump players who are crushing PvP games up in MMR very quickly. Probably after 10 or 20 (non-sandbagging) matches you're pretty much only going up against other smurfs. But there are limits to how fast they can do this -- you don't want to throw an actual newbie into the lion's den because they got carried a few times in a row.

At least for people who claim to be truly new when that "estimate your skill level" box appears, require a handful of co-op versus AI games with no chat.

You already have to play at least a few non-PvP games, since it doesn't unlock until summoner level 3(?).

This doesn't solve the "wants to stomp newbs" issue, since it would not be hard to derp around for a few games with bad stats to get matched up against weak opposition when you're available to go into PvP.

Make a more detailed tutorial than "Goooood jooooooob, Summoner! Now buy your thornmail to defeat Master Yi." (Have they already done this?)

They did this with Intro Bots, although they can always do more.

Provide a coaching mode where higher-level Summoners can spectate and chat with their friends.

I've seen some suggestions along these lines, and maybe a "coaching" mode would help. Although I suspect most of the "I want to help my friends" players will want to help them actively to ensure wins, not sit there going "no, hit the minion right before it dies! NO NOT LIKE THAT!!!" for half an hour. Also, players who want to do this can already play co-op matches...

Edit:

Not trying to sound too negative here, but it's a complex problem. Both "want to help my friends" and "want to stomp newbs" players are discouraged from self-identifying as skilled. And an unpleasant enough "prisoner's island" will just push people to make smurfs anyway.

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