About to be 2016 and Annie's Q still hasn't gotten the Kog/Ryze/Rengar treatment

Danny DeVito·Dec 26, 2015·1 votes·1,051 views

STILL IS A TARGETTED SPELL RIOT LETS PICK UP THE PACE HERE

18 Comments

BluePolarizerDec 26, 20152 votes

Annie is less point and click than Zed and Rengar.

PIMPSMOOTHDec 26, 20152 votes

Annie has 3 damaging abilities, 2 are skill shots already.

Not happening son.

Chibi TemplarDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Annie has 3 damaging abilities, 2 are skill shots already.

Not happening son.

Not really. The cone on her incinerate is huge and her R can barely be classified as a skillshot. Not to mention, her R is also quite big. If they wanna change anything about Annie, make her stun like Double Strike, force her to cast it within a time frame rather than allowing her to store it indefinitely, forcing her opponent to play passive to avoid getting melted.

WoonStruckDec 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OeRMyE3y,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-26T06:09:31.030+0000)

Not really. The cone on her incinerate is huge and her R can barely be classified as a skillshot. Not to mention, her R is also quite big. If they wanna change anything about Annie, make her stun like Double Strike, force her to cast it within a time frame rather than allowing her to store it indefinitely, forcing her opponent to play passive to avoid getting melted.

Why would they make it like Double Strike? They'd have to lower the charges required then, which would make her more abusive during laning, and inferior for initiation compared to now. At the very least she'd get noticeable compensation elsewhere, which would make her more problematic than she is now. And she's not problematic now.

That's the exact opposite of what any intelligent person would do to change her. Yet again, this is Riot we're talking about.

Besides, good Annie players farm early and do Wombos with their jungler. They don't go for cheesy kills that rely on 0 retaliation from their opponent. Unless you do that for them, or make yourself easy, fighting Annie should not be a problem.

Chibi TemplarDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why would they make it like Double Strike? They'd have to lower the charges required then, which would make her more abusive during laning, and inferior for initiation compared to now. At the very least she'd get noticeable compensation elsewhere, which would make her more problematic than she is now. And she's not problematic now.

That's the exact opposite of what any intelligent person would do to change her. Yet again, this is Riot we're talking about.

Besides, good Annie players farm early and do Wombos with their jungler. They don't go for cheesy kills that rely on 0 retaliation from their opponent. Unless you do that for them, or make yourself easy, fighting Annie should not be a problem.

You can still have the stacks prior to the stun last indefinitely. If she was going to use her Q then R to stun you and follow up with W, nothing changes, you're still getting melted, but she actively chose to commit to a fight, not, put a little stun in my pocket and save it for later.

Secondly, why wouldn't you go for easy kills? If theres an opening, you take it. Not go, "im a good annie player, i'll wait for my junger to come gank. kittyface." Taking opportunities is what gets you ahead.

She's a burst mage with terrible mobility, the whole point of that class of champions is to melt opponents. Take that away and you might as well delete them from the game.

You're right, her mobility is weak,its a trade off. However, she doesn't even have to be doing that well to make good use of her stun. It's why she can be played as a "support" like Brand. Her damage and ratios are quite high, and she has some good utility just though her long ranged Tibbers stun alone. Yeah, Amumu can do it too, but Amumu needs to be in the middle of you team. Also note, Im not saying nerf her damage, nerf the passive.

WoonStruckDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OeRMyE3y,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-26T06:39:08.990+0000)

You can still have the stacks prior to the stun last indefinitely. If she was going to use her Q then R to stun you and follow up with W, nothing changes, you're still getting melted, but she actively chose to commit to a fight, not, put a little stun in my pocket and save it for later.

Secondly, why wouldn't you go for easy kills? If theres an opening, you take it. Not go, "im a good annie player, i'll wait for my junger to come gank. kittyface." Taking opportunities is what gets you ahead.

Because anyone that isn't a retard will put their combo on Annie the moment she starts walking forward. If they can't without getting bursted, you move back with her. If she holds onto it, she's not farming/pushing. Most of the mids can then push and get her under tower, then go roam, take blue, etc. Annie's auto is terrible for farming if she's trying to freeze. If you're letting her, that's your fault.

Her passive is not a problem. Its easy to keep track of. If you're getting punished by it, that's on you. Her range is pitiful.

Chibi TemplarDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because anyone that isn't a retard will put their combo on Annie the moment she starts walking forward. If they can't without getting bursted, you move back with her. If she holds onto it, she's not farming/pushing. Most of the mids can then push and get her under tower, then go roam, take blue, etc. Annie's auto is terrible for farming if she's trying to freeze. If you're letting her, that's your fault.

Her passive is not a problem. Its easy to keep track of. If you're getting punished by it, that's on you. Her range is pitiful.

Again, the problem lies in her ability to force her opponent to play passive.

I also seem to have forgotten that Annie lacks an auto attack to farm, or is incapable of pushing the lane to a point where she can control it. My bad.

WoonStruckDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OeRMyE3y,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-26T07:07:53.232+0000)

Again, the problem lies in her ability to force her opponent to play passive.

I also seem to have forgotten that Annie lacks an auto attack to farm, or is incapable of pushing the lane to a point where she can control it. My bad.

She doesn't force them to play passive because just about every champion can push from outside of her range. If I can survive laning vs an Annie as Vlad consistently, you shouldn't have a problem with whatever champ you're thinking about. She's one of Vlad's hardest counters in mid.

If she's being aggressive enough that you feel its unfair, it means your jungler could have gotten a free kill. It also means you made mistakes if you can't stay in lane vs her. Sometimes you HAVE to give up farm. It happens a lot lvl 1-6 top lane. Some champs dominate hard early. You just have to get the exp and farm under tower; you aren't going to miss 100-200 gold much when you're level 9. You will miss it if your opponent is also 300+ up on you on top of it from a kill.

If she's freezing it so you lose out on a lot of gold, tell your jungler to come in and help un-freeze. And again, Annie is extremely difficult to properly freeze with and come out ahead, especially if you have any ability with over 700 range (which is the majority of them mid-lane)

Sightless66Dec 26, 20151 votes

You can still have the stacks prior to the stun last indefinitely.

Then it changes literally nothing. I'm just going to save the E and cast it right before I get my last stack. It's still easily saving a stun for later, it just repurposes the shield to be a shield activator. That's already something Annie players do to hide their stun. Nothing would change.

It really isn't a good solution to the problems with her. Any solution that would actually prevent her from easily sitting on a stun in lane would also screw her initiation potential later in the game, and that makes nearly 100% of her value at that stage in the game. If you're concerned about the effectiveness it has in lane, make getting hit by her stun in a lane situation less punishing. Nerf the stun duration before level 6 and possibly before level 11. There. Problem solved, or at least alleviated slightly until she can get the more comphrensive rework that she really needs if we want to significantly change her. I don't even really think a nerf is necessary, but if we did need to, this would be a much better option.

Also, just as a general forum etiquette note, it's not really good to put quoted responses to multiple people in the same reply to only one person. It's a very easy way to make sure the person never actually sees you responded to them. Separating the responses and sending them to the specific person who wrote them is usually a better idea.

Chibi TemplarDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then it changes literally nothing. I'm just going to save the E and cast it right before I get my last stack. It's still easily saving a stun for later, it just repurposes the shield to be a shield activator. That's already something Annie players do to hide their stun. Nothing would change.

I guess you didn't read one of my previous posts? You're right. If she actively chooses to fight someone it doesn't change anything, but that would be the goal. To actively force her to make a decision, not hold on to the stun indefinitely.

Sightless66Dec 26, 20151 votes

What? The point is I could hold the stunning indefinitely. I just sit at one stack below the stunning indefinitely. It solves nothing because it still allows for infinite threatening.

Seriously man, you never addressed this core problem.

PIMPSMOOTHDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OeRMyE3y,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-26T06:09:31.030+0000)

Not really. The cone on her incinerate is huge and her R can barely be classified as a skillshot. Not to mention, her R is also quite big. If they wanna change anything about Annie, make her stun like Double Strike, force her to cast it within a time frame rather than allowing her to store it indefinitely, forcing her opponent to play passive to avoid getting melted.

Her cone isn't huge at all and her mobility outright sucks. She's flash dependent to engage on you and if you get roasted by that cone when she doesn't use flash you deserve to die.

Her R is a skill shot, period. And being an ultimate it's not going to be tiny (why the hell should it be?) but it still pales in comparison to the size of ultimates from champions such as Amumu .

She's a burst mage with terrible mobility, the whole point of that class of champions is to melt opponents. Take that away and you might as well delete them from the game.

Surfer AsheDec 26, 20152 votes

Making Ryze's Q a skillshot was a massive playability buff.

Besides, the former all got massive range buffs. Would you like Annie to stun Q'ing you from 1000 units away?

WoonStruckDec 26, 20152 votes

First off, doesn't need it. If it ever DOES actually become a problem, all they need to do is increase the mana cost. If she uses it for reckless harass rather than farm (where she gets a mana refund), she's then 'punished.'

Second, just about every single mid-laner can out-poke her early. If you can't, its still not hard to lane vs her. You farm under tower until you can instant-clear waves. If she's up that far, which she'd have to be to farm, she gets ganked and dies.

Third, hopefully you didn't go full retard and forget to use MR glyphs. You might want to think about abyssal as well. She can never 100-0 you (unfed during laning) if you have a negatron. You'd have to take 20-30% first.

If none of those work, congrats, you got counter-picked. That's still a thing despite how much Riot says they don't want it to be. Most Annies are very over-aggressive, so your jungler can still gank and get a kill if he's not stupid enough to gank at 50% hp.

Reliable, but risky, burst is what Annie's all about. With the arrival of champs like yasuo, kalista, etc, I'm more glad that its there than upset about how easy she is.

StrawberrycocoaDec 26, 20152 votes

Annie is just about the only thing left in the game that can secure a hard stun on slippery mobile energy users. Gut assassin mobility and we can discuss losing out on click-target stuns.

IcyPepperDec 26, 20151 votes

I don't think they're going to change it to a skillshot, honestly.

AlakalzamDec 26, 20151 votes

This game has too many skillshots. Annie already has two.

H 3Dec 26, 20151 votes

I suck with skillshots even after over 2000 games played and I'd hate it if they reworked annie to have even more. My champion pool is so low since I cannot use the majority of champions or do not like them too. Please don't make annie's q a skillshot :(. I still can't land skillshots to save my life although ryze even missing his q does so much damage it doesn't really matter much hehe.