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I have a legitimate fear that Ivern will be nothing but a pain for Riot...

Electro522·Sep 21, 2016·13 votes·1,796 views

...especially when it comes to Pro play. Certainly, the pros must be losing their minds over this champ. Why?

His passive is able to take jungle camps instantly with smite. When you "clear" the camp, it gives you the buff, but also leaves behind a buff for your allies to take. This means that your mid laner can start laning with Blue Buff, or your ADC can start laning with the red buff (if you're on blue side......though, I wouldn't be surprised to see lane swaps if hes on red side), with NO DOWNSIDE WHATSOEVER except Ivern loses a bit of health and mana.

EDIT: I did not realize his passive does not give buffs to allies until level 5. I guess Riot did see that glaring problem, and threw in a simple fix.

His Q is a snare that allows allies to dash to the snared champ within auto attack range. Any champ with some sort of engage that demands they get within AA range (i.e. ) will LOVE him.

His W is a temporary, long ranged, vision, and vision denial. With just how important vision is in the LCS.......you see where I'm going here.

His E is........not impressive, and won't make that big of an impact.

His ultimate allows for easy tower dives almost without any downside.

Ivern is a brilliantly made champ, no doubt, and one of the most unique champs Riot has ever made.........but he is SO unique, I fear he will be nothing but a problem.

24 Comments

AstôlfoSep 21, 20169 votes

On the other hand, without Smite, his clears take 40 seconds at level 1 and go down 2s per level.

Electro522Sep 21, 20161 votes

Except you can be "farming" multiple camps at once, while you go gank. Come back around, pick them all up......rinse and repeat.

AstôlfoSep 21, 20161 votes

And if he's not there actively channeling, his distance-farming will probably take a lot longer, and enemy junglers could just invade and steal them first.

OleandervineSep 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And if he's not there actively channeling, his distance-farming will probably take a lot longer, and enemy junglers could just invade and steal them first.

He doesn't have to channel to take the camps. It sets up a ring that fills similar to what an inhibitor looks like when it's rebuilding. When it's done, there's supposed to be a map marker (currently not operational) that shows camps ready to be taken. He can start up an entire side of the jungle, drink his pots (he loses almost a 4th of his HP and Mana at early levels on each camp to do this) and then pop into the lane for a quick Q or bush, then go take the camps and start up the other side. Invasion is a pretty steep cost for him though, since it's so easily done to him, so that's definitely one of the balancing levers on him.

As for the OP, I think you underestimate the kiting potential of his shield and you overestimate the strength of his bushes. Sure, vision is important, but his bushes are obviously not like the other bushes, and if they're in the middle of the lane, minions will step through them. Also, unlike personal stealth, these bushes are usable by enemies, meaning that enemy Teemos, Rengars, and any other assassin or ADC that likes being in stealth can just as easily use the bushes against you.

137434Sep 21, 20161 votes

While true, from what I've seen the health cost for "farming" multiple camps is pretty high, at least early. Makes early ganking while waiting for the farming channels to complete risky, and of course you only get experience when you actually clear the camps (so first round will have experience from whatever you smite only until you start clearing).

CookyPrinceSep 21, 20165 votes

The health loss is enough for counter junglers to get an easy firstblood

RaoulSep 21, 20164 votes

He only gets double buffs after level 5.

RikoZerameSep 21, 20161 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm] For cripes sake, THIS.

Sightless66Sep 21, 20163 votes

He can't share buffs until after he's level 5.

Electro522Sep 21, 20161 votes

Ah......I didn't catch that part. That fixes that problem.........but...

Sightless66Sep 21, 20162 votes

I think that his early game lack of strong dueling power and burst will keep his LCS preformance in check. Historically, dominant LCS junglers are almost always capable of controlling the game from level 1. It's one of the most constant factors in professional play. I don't think Ivern brings that to the table, and while he does bring some other really cool stuff, I doubt it is enough to cause one of the most fundamental rules of pro play to change.

I might be wrong, but my first impression is that this weakness may end up forcing him out of pro play

DarkRitualSep 21, 20162 votes

Thing with Ivern is, level 1, he can literally be anywhere. He doesn't need a leash. Get a group to drop some deep invade wards, and counter jungle half the enemy jungle. Recall, Pink ward your same-color buff, clear other half, donate that blue/red since you'll be level 5 by then. He also brings another unique thing: His Runes, Masteries, and Item builds don't need to be focused for jungle clearing. At all. He also technically doesn't need a jungle item. I would guess you still want it for the exp bonus from camps though. Likely Tracker's Knife then Cinderhulk. Potentially builds Relic Shield line too. Pop some camps, jump into lane, share some Spoils, harvest camps. Repeat.

Will be interesting to see how his builds/playstyles develop.

RalanrSep 21, 20161 votes

Oh wow. He can get a color buff right away.

The AqualiousSep 21, 20161 votes

So can Shaco and a handful of other Junglers

He can just do it within seconds of the camp spawning

137434Sep 21, 20161 votes

He will only be able to counter jungle 1 camp early- the one he uses his smite on.

From then on he has to wait 40 s for the groves to mature and then return back to the camps to clear them afterwards. In the meantime the enemy jungler can clear the camps as the groves mature, they are not invulnerable. And of course setting up the groves will cost Ivern a lot of health, leaving him very very vulnerable to being killed as well (he is not a great duelist).

DarkRitualSep 21, 20161 votes

40 sec does give a bit of room to counterplay, so I guess that's fair. We'll have to see how things play out in his PBE run, if anything gets changed significantly.

Meep ManSep 21, 20162 votes

Back in my day, when something changed in a game, the players had to adapt to fit the champion into the game once it was released, not the developer.

CasterGilgameshSep 22, 20161 votes

well riot spoiled us

Linna ExcelSep 21, 20161 votes

If he's that bad, maybe he'll be unplayable in solo queue but good in ranked teams like the LCS.

MyLittleWindmillSep 21, 20161 votes

Yeah, I sort of agree with this, I feel like Ivern is going to end up somewhat like Kalista, in a sense that it's difficult to do anything effective in solo queue.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 21, 20161 votes

he will prob be useless in anything below diamond 2. and godtier in lcs

RisenDarkKnightSep 21, 20161 votes

Actually E is better than you think. It is a 70%! slow for 3 seconds at rank one. So he can either cast it on himself then flash in, or cast it on the ally he's ganking who has a dash, then land a free Q when they get hugely slowed.

His ganks wouldn't be the best if his only tool was Q.

Earl EulrichSep 21, 20161 votes

but he is SO unique, I fear he will be nothing but a problem.

which really isn´t a unique problem with riot, as a lot of the recent Champions fall into that pattern..."cool" unqique mechanics that are utterly frustrating to play against, especially for melees that had been designed before the excessive mobility creep.

Restless SlumberSep 21, 20161 votes

When I saw Ivern played on the PBE, I noticed one glaring weakness of his. And that is his terrible early game. He's not allowed to kill the jungle camps without smite until he's waited 40 seconds. Because of this, I see that he can easily be outpressured by other junglers who are able to rush levels and apply early pressure. I feel like he is more of a mid/late game champion, which is honestly not that big of a problem until we see people able to abuse the champion by cheesing his early game.

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