@Riot Whats with the removal of Grievous Wounds from champion abilities?

CatSith··34 votes·2,458 views

With every champion update/kit rework you are removing GW from abilities and the latest one is MissFortune.

Are you planning on making it an item special ability? If so are you making a AD item that applies GW?

Or, are you removing it from the game in general? and If so is there plans to nerf lifesteal/healing abilities?

32 Comments

Sire Hippington15 votes

I assume they want to remove it totall, as they removed it from champion kits so far(guess katas ult is up for a change soon)

They stated in some post quite some time ago that GW is bad in terms of balanceing, as all healing has to be balanced around the potential hardcounter, so either the sustain in gnerall is overbearing unless you get GW against it, or the sustain can be dealt with normally and starts to suck balls once GW comes into play, and i agree with that.

They still could admit that they plan on removing GW as they did with dodge, rather than suptile removing GW a bit more with each patch...

CatSith3 votes

I'm scared of having no countermeasures against champions like Vladimir, Volibear,Akali, and etc. Their natrual healing is crazy without GW to help fight against :/.

Sire Hippington14 votes

thats actually the point right now. Their selfheal is that crazy because GW exists to potentially half it. I just hope they don't forget to nerf strong heal **befor **removing the last GW

kile1472 votes

If I could upvote this again I would, and they unfortunately will probably allow the healers to be broken for awhile.

LoLKiru3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OVrR1us7,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-07T20:55:44.910+0000)

thats actually the point right now. Their selfheal is that crazy because GW exists to potentially half it. I just hope they don't forget to nerf strong heal **befor **removing the last GW

It could also be that they don't want people to have spammable grievous wounds without paying for it (in the sense that, when you blow Kat's ult or ignite, you're using a long cooldown; when you buy morellonomicon or shudders executioner's calling, you're paying gold for those items)

Would totally make sense if they removed it from peoples kits (except for a few situational ones like Varus who only does it if you stand in a specific spot; or kat who has a longer cooldown on it, etc) but then created a new AD item with grievous wounds.

IcyPepper3 votes

I disagree on Katarina. :/ at max rank, without cdr, 90/60/45 alongside her cooldown resets.

WIth the amount of burst she has, GW should have been removed from her before MF (since MF lacks the same mobility for the most part).

Mughi of Ruckus1 votes

Given that they nerfed her cooldown resets already, and most of her power is in her ult, I have to disagree with your disagreement. It's funny because there aren't many situations where it matters, but when it does, it really does, and I don't think Riot has a answer to that that wouldn't make things terrible for everyone without a significant amount of healing.

Feathermane2 votes

Most of her power is in her passive and having no animations in her entire kit. Who cares about her ult.

Mughi of Ruckus1 votes

The difference between 565 damage + 110% AP and that plus 750 + 250% AP gives plenty of reason to care. It's great if you can get her passive to proc, but that potential doesn't matter if you can't actually kill them. Her ult is is how she starts killing people. She can hop from person to person killing them if they're all low, but her ult is what gets them low, otherwise she would just sit around, hoping her teammates can kill someone within 3 seconds of doing mediocre damage to them, which in a teamfight isn't much use.

Ace Access 2 votes

in other words they'll forget to nerf self heal won't they

Manwalrus2 votes

No, they're doing it Soon(TM)

Ancestor0071 votes

Day 6669: Stil no changges

StephenTheGod1 votes

Day of the Teemo.

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

I'm thinking they will probably remove all GW from champions first, then items (they will have to give something to Morello possibly as compensation). I'm not sure if they will remove the GW from ignite as it is on a considerably long CD and if it was removed, Ignite would probably have to be buffed as health pots would probably be able to counteract a large portion of the damage in conjunction with some HP regen. Particularly in the early game.

Ace Access 1 votes

compensate ? like what ?

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

Give it a new passive basically. Right now it is already cost efficient without GW, but people would probably get upset that there is nothing else to the item other than stats. I don't know what exactly that would entail but it is the obvious more offensive mana sustain option, so I think it would have some additional offensive property with a possible increase in cost if the new passive is a little too strong for 2300 gold.

Teridax681 votes

Having one more champion with Grievous Wounds wouldn't be an adequate countermeasure, though, since you're not going to have that champion in 100% of your games. Item-based solutions are also not that good because that just means those kinds of champions can run amok until you hard-counter a large part of their kit just by buying the necessary item, which wouldn't be that much of a real choice.

The issue with GW as a mechanic is that it's tremendously powerful against a handful of targets, but either really difficult to appreciate or completely useless against the vast majority of opponents out there. Those same sustain-based champions also need to end up with overly strong sustain simply because they can lose half of it at the press of a button, which stacks the two systems up against each other and seriously limits the amount of interesting play that can happen. Hopefully, Riot will eventually phase out GW completely and readjust those champions' sustain accordingly, but taking it away from one more champion's kit won't have that much of an impact on the state of sustain as a whole.

kile1471 votes

Kat's could probably stay similar to ignite, because neither is spammable. I certainly wouldn't be sad if they removed it, but my guess is that they'll keep it.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

You have it right, sir. As an avid Swain player, I really want GW gone. It makes a huge impact on the game, and people don't seem to understand that healing abilities could be cut if GW was gone.

MrBuffington4 votes

and If so is there plans to nerf lifesteal/healing abilities?

I certainly hope so; Vladmir is scary with the new AP items

woobee4 votes

Varus TIme to run.

junglerboy166 votes

SHHHHHHhhhhhh... they only know Varus for his strong poke and awkward ult, let them blissfully forget his grievous wounds so we can keep them.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

Riot is full of Swain mains

Fadedpf2 votes

Katarina is the only Balanced champion able to have GW. Kappa

Ancestor0071 votes

Balance is weakness

Mandang02 votes

It's a really binary mechanic, somewhat necessarily so, for dealing with kits that depend on extreme sustain to function. One problem with this is that it makes weaker heals that don't require such a harsh counter feel really meaningless in the times they should be most clutch - when the target is low.

LordKentravyon1 votes

Removing it from Tris made sense overall

But i think it should be kept on MF adds a nice little anti-sustain adc niche to her, and its not exactly like were seeing he dominate and needing a power trim or anything.

And yea without an AD grievous wounds there really is not enough access to it in the game (+ SV is getting buffed to increase all healing not just self healing)

Xonra1 votes

If they completely remove it, then they need to start re-nerfing all the healing stuff like Mundo, or nerf Vlad again, etc.

Starting to run out of ways to deal with healing over time and lifesteal outside of ignite, which just doesn't cut it.

NateKiller1 votes

They don't like hidden power. That's about it. Think...would GW make a LC$ big play? No? Deleted.

Dayblazer1 votes

I personally think its a bad change. Warwick, Nasus, and Soraka love it though thats for sure.

TwistedFateMain1 votes

All I can say.... New meta Swain EVERYWHERE

Stars Shaper1 votes

Fizz OMG! I just poled the nerf!!

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