I’ve titled this the: “My botlane always feeds illusion.”

HateDaddy··9 votes·9,879 views

Why do I say illusion? Because the reality is, your bot lane probably feeds just as much as they carry. This has been well-discussed for years, there is no need for me to say much other than over the course of a long season and enough games, numbers will even themselves out.

But why does this perception still exist? Well in psychology, we tend to notice bad things that occur to us more than we notice good things:

The research actually shows we remember things that are meaningful to us. This is a more apt way to put it but negative events tend to be more meaningful because we are far more likely to attribute negative events that happen to us to external causes while we tend to attribute positive things that happen to us to more internal causes (I did it because I’m great, not because I had a lot of help), and internal attributions tend to be more automatic and below consciousness, so we simply notice them occurring less whereas we are going to notice above conscious situational factors because we will attribute the negative experiences we have as a result of something/someone else.

So what does this mean? We will notice bot lane and mid lane doing poorly far more than we will notice them doing well. What’s the exception? If we carry the game, we won’t really notice or remember how those mid and bot laners did, we will be more likely to attribute that success to ourselves (internal attributes). But if we do really well or really poorly and lose while the rest of our team simultaneously does poorly, we will attribute to them (external attributes - it wasn’t my fault). Rarely will we make internal attributes to other people we don’t know (they carried the game because they’re really good). In fact, this is why you won’t remember most of the games that you were literally the reason your team lost. And it’s not really even a sense of memory at this point (this is a big debate the memory field of psychology), you never interpreted it as being your fault in the first place because you’ll blame your poor performance on something external.

So in short, why do we think our bot lane and other laners always feed while the other bot lane and mid lanes always thrive? Because we fool ourselves, that’s why. And before you low-key baby rage and post your 20 game match history, understand that I’m not saying riots match-making is perfect or even good, I’m only stating that you’re not going even think of times you did poorly when I can probably spectate your last 10 games and find several instances where you did. That said, again, match making is another discussion entirely.

32 Comments

Moody P7 votes

Bot lane players aren't good which is why they need 2 players

Top lane players are beast mode alphas who played varsity football and start their day off with eggs and bacon

SuicidePlank3 votes

Exactly, ADCs always need their babysitter around to not hug the beta enemy Kennens/Gnars, while Chadrius takes the challenge 1v2.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OTQkqnYd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-25T16:19:17.898+0000)

Bot lane players aren't good which is why they need 2 players

Top lane players are beast mode alphas who played varsity football and start their day off with eggs and bacon

I accept this theory, too.

TinkerTantrums6 votes

IF

  • Bot lane always feeds
  • It's not your fault

THEN

  • Iron League member found
FOR JUSTICE3 votes

{quoted}

IF

  • Bot lane always feeds
  • It's not your fault

THEN

  • Iron League member found

This man java's

BlueBilberry5 votes

Read through the others comments and yours. And gave them a quick thought.

In the end, I think it is more a case of "The nail that sticks out shall be hammered down." Two reasons:

  1. If the botlane does badly, it's noticeable because there is a quick migration/roam of them to other lanes. At this stage, you usually get the mid and jungle flaming the adc and support for not holding up there end of the bargain - regardless of whether they were getting assistance from the jungle or not.

  2. On the other hand, If your botlane is doing fine, then it is noticeable because you don't see them joining the schmozzes happening elsewhere on the map . This is because the botlane will always be tied to the need to get farm to even match the levels of the other lanes. If they are busy farming and not dying, then the mid and jungle will complain because they "aren't helping".

It is a "no win" scenario when you play either support or adc on botlane. As Erma Bombeck once said, the grass is always greener over the septic tank.

Dr Dog4 votes

its mroe of just its noticeable when they lose because bot lane pretty much decides the entire game unless every other role feeds

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OTQkqnYd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-25T16:17:48.652+0000)

its mroe of just its noticeable when they lose because bot lane pretty much decides the entire game unless every other role feeds

That’s not entirely true. Mid and jungle have just as much of an impact as bot lane. Top has less of an impact but they can still be impactful. Bot lane is most likely to cause a dramatic shift in the game because 40% of the players in a match are concentrated in this area. But when you’re actively raging and blaming bot lane, you’re not thinking “man well those 4 people had a dramatic shift on the game because 4 is greater than 2 or 1 and probability tells us we should anticipate this and that spiderman is actually a boy.” You’re going to say “stupid bot lane always feeding.” There’s a certain point where you DO impact the game to the point where you can make a difference, and yes there’s a ton of variability to that (what lane you play, the champions you play, HOW OFTEN you play, etc) but as I stated, the numbers do work themselves out eventually - and that in itself is an entirely different conversation.

Salron4 votes

Studies show that 99.9% of league players suffer from negative memory bias

my nunu is gg2 votes

Good one xD

FrozenFrostFyre4 votes

Here me out: Maybe it's not an illusion for some junglers because they ignore the ever loving fuck out of botlane letting the enemy jungler easily decide the lane. So even games where your botlane was better and should have won the enemy jungler is able to out play you and prevent that.

biiiiiiigthink.

Nah just never gank for them and blame all your losses on "bad teammates" I'm sure that will work out for you eventually. Kek. [sg-miss-fortune]

SuicidePlank3 votes

You will notice it much more if botlane feeds, because usually (in my games) they are the ones being toxic, flaming junglers etc.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

You will notice it much more if botlane feeds, because usually (in my games) they are the ones being toxic, flaming junglers etc.

Nope, you’re just noticing it because you’re seeing it. Do you always notice when the enemy flames their jungler? Half the time you can’t, in fact most of the time you can’t becauae they’re far more likely to rage in team chat than all-chat.

SuicidePlank1 votes

Usually ragers go on and on about in all chat. And yes, I am not seeing their Teamchat, no one can, I am just speaking from my perspective as Toplaner. Also, I can see enemy lanes feeding to, just without a voice it is less memorable, but memorable non the less.

Stars Shaper3 votes

Since now you can't edit the title...

Who the heck is this "Illusion" and why my botlane keeps feeding it?

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OTQkqnYd,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-25T16:28:19.012+0000)

Since now you can't edit the title...

Who the heck is this "Illusion" and why my botlane keeps feeding it?

He’s hungry and your bot lane are kind, gentle folk.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Fair enough.

Kai Guy2 votes

Bot lane has 2 champions so when they get whipped out in a fight, be it a 2v2 outplay or ambushed by enemy jungle/mid/tp top. You see 2X more kills put up then you do for any other lane. This stands out and is more dramatic when bot lane is struggling as the odds you see that X2 deaths is more common in a losing lane.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OTQkqnYd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-25T16:23:41.473+0000)

Bot lane has 2 champions so when they get whipped out in a fight, be it a 2v2 outplay or ambushed by enemy jungle/mid/tp top. You see 2X more kills put up then you do for any other lane. This stands out and is more dramatic when bot lane is struggling as the odds you see that X2 deaths is more common in a losing lane.

That’s assuming kills in bot lane always result in both laners dying, which they don’t. That also makes the claim that jungle and mid don’t have a huge influence, which they do. In fact, I’d argue the jungler and mid laner are far more likely to impact the game than bot lane. Mid laners level faster and junglers do too if they’re farming a lot and doing well. Bot lane is really only noticeable on a large level when it snowballs or reaches late game, and mid and jungle will often have a huge impact on bot lane snowballing.

Kai Guy2 votes

My intent was not to claim that you always see 2 deaths/kills and I also had no desire to make any statements on what impacts bot lane the most. The fact of the matter is its very common to see 1 for 1 or 2 for 1 kill trades in bot. Rather I wanted to point out that when things go south to the highest extent, you see 2 champions dead compared to other lanes 1.

The result of that influences player perception of feeding. Partially because not everybody measures "feeding" by the same metric. Some folks measure feeders by how many kills 1 champion has, in this situation seeing bot lane get wrecked 2 times in lane at the very worst looks like 4 kills on 1 champion. Many players will treat 4 kills as a high enough number to qualify a champion as feed. Some players keep track of deaths in the lane rather then focus on what champion gets gold, again this mind set tends to make bottom lane feel more "feedy" because when it goes south they will generate a higher death toll from a single fight.

You can tell if a player uses the last 2 metrics by chat. "OMG LEE SIN IS SO FKING FEED WTF BOT" For example. OMG BOT HAS DIED 6 TIMES FREAKING FEEDER NUBS GG FF @20! GO BACK TO BRONZE SCRUBS" Would be example for #2.

There are more metrics then the two I mentioned and even with the same metric there is variance between exactly what # qualifies as a feeding. For example you might die to a clean up gank when your in top lane and find your mid going "STOP FEEDING MY LANE YOU GODDAM NOOB!" When your score is sitting at 3-1-1. That player considers 1 death to be feed, thou often times will discount their own deaths because it was in no shape their fault they are 0-7 in lane as you and others "FEED THE S**T OUTTA MY LANE"

The Point being bottom lane has a more dramatic impact when things go the worst way possible by simple virtue of 2 champions occupying it consistently. Its entirely possible to see 2 for 0 deaths in other situations that are worst case, jungle invades can do this, a bad gank, etc.. Bot lane failing however is probably the most common 2 for 0 situation in the game and if the lanes struggling or behind it can become common and snowball a match.

my nunu is gg2 votes

Hey there,

I'm someone who is currently studying psychology and the only thing I can say is that he is absolutely right! Just accept that ur brain is a mess and that this is normal.

Yours, a bit more happy to be studying, Chris

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=my nunu is gg,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OTQkqnYd,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-25T16:29:10.672+0000)

Hey there,

I'm someone who is currently studying psychology and the only thing I can say is that he is absolutely right! Just accept that ur brain is a mess and that this is normal.

Yours, a bit more happy to be studying, Chris

Yeah that’s a key point - this doesn’t make you a horrible person. It makes you human. We all do it and fighting automatic processes is a laughably uneven fight. You will lose most of the time.

Hayaishi22 votes

A solo laner and a jungler have more impact than bot lane. A fed jungler and top is way more relevant than a fed bot lane.

mack91122 votes

Very well said

Sir Saltarin2 votes

So that's how you guys see us from above of the map.

GodlyBane2 votes

checking my match history in 12ish games, 1 or 2 bot lanes did well, but all still lost lane

Zarkrai2 votes

Try having a bot lane that dies 10 times before 10min virtually every other game. They're impossible to gank, because as soon as they get back to their lane they shove to the tower again, and once again die. Or a adc who starts a fight while his support is in the base every single time, vice versa. Or a bot lane that in 2019 doesn't understand how hooks work and refuse to stand behind their minions.

I've been a jungler main almost my entire league life, and well over 50% of my losses are botlanes that are complete dumpster fires. How many games did my bot lane actually carry? Less than 20%.

Nobody but a jungler can truly say which lanes are having bad games, and which are trash players. It's our job to see everything, and we do. Adcs are the most ignoramus tunnel visioned egomaniacal non-Riven players in the game, and they can't see fucking 5 feet in front of them. And unfortunately, support players, trying to please instead of doing their job properly, follow the lead of these idiots. If it's 7min and your bot lane is 0/11, they need to gtfo ranked.

dead men waIking2 votes

You are All missing the point, if your botlane carries or feeds and you basically win/lose off of that, your impact is reduced to shreds.

its like saying that minions get carried by champions just as much as their champions feed.

the point is YOUR IMPACT is highly reduced, and it you can't enjoy the game because the result is decided by someone else anyway.

Malix Farwin2 votes

Was curious of your theory so took a look at my ranked match history to see if that were true. about 7 of the last 20 games i had bot lane won. The other 13 they lost. That is under 50%(closer to around 47%) of the 13 other games, 0 was won because of bot lane carrying but almost every game won was because bot lane didnt massively feed.

I will say this however, the biggest impact right now isnt bot lane but jungle. If you have a bad jungle you can lose the game pretty quickly.

FioraWillCarry2 votes

You have no idea how right you are. Understanding this is the main reason I went from being hard stuck in Silver to Gold.

gedeost1 votes

{quoted}

Why do I say illusion? Because the reality is, your bot lane probably feeds just as much as they carry. This has been well-discussed for years, there is no need for me to say much other than over the course of a long season and enough games, numbers will even themselves out.

But why does this perception still exist? Well in psychology, we tend to notice bad things that occur to us more than we notice good things:

The research actually shows we remember things that are meaningful to us. This is a more apt way to put it but negative events tend to be more meaningful because we are far more likely to attribute negative events that happen to us to external causes while we tend to attribute positive things that happen to us to more internal causes (I did it because I’m great, not because I had a lot of help), and internal attributions tend to be more automatic and below consciousness, so we simply notice them occurring less whereas we are going to notice above conscious situational factors because we will attribute the negative experiences we have as a result of something/someone else.

So what does this mean? We will notice bot lane and mid lane doing poorly far more than we will notice them doing well. What’s the exception? If we carry the game, we won’t really notice or remember how those mid and bot laners did, we will be more likely to attribute that success to ourselves (internal attributes). But if we do really well or really poorly and lose while the rest of our team simultaneously does poorly, we will attribute to them (external attributes - it wasn’t my fault). Rarely will we make internal attributes to other people we don’t know (they carried the game because they’re really good). In fact, this is why you won’t remember most of the games that you were literally the reason your team lost. And it’s not really even a sense of memory at this point (this is a big debate the memory field of psychology), you never interpreted it as being your fault in the first place because you’ll blame your poor performance on something external.

So in short, why do we think our bot lane and other laners always feed while the other bot lane and mid lanes always thrive? Because we fool ourselves, that’s why. And before you low-key baby rage and post your 20 game match history, understand that I’m not saying riots match-making is perfect or even good, I’m only stating that you’re not going even think of times you did poorly when I can probably spectate your last 10 games and find several instances where you did. That said, again, match making is another discussion entirely.

I have never read something more ridiculous as this in this month, almost everything i disagree with. I want you to give some sources about this. I can go point from point with examples but I am lazy so I cannot bother.

Echoxman1 votes

I had 9 games in a row, in ranked, where my bot lane combined was less than 3 kills more than 10 deaths leaving lane. NINE GAMES, you tell me

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy