When are marksman finally going to stop being the center of the game?

Trash MammaI·Sep 24, 2015·14 votes·833 views

I get really sick of them being the only class you can shut down and they'll still be relevant because they're good at all stages of the game

65 Comments

KatCraftSep 24, 20158 votes

This thread got upvotes?

Jungler is arguably the most important role early - mid game. Sets the tempo of the game, snow balls and controls the fate of all 3 lanes, and is the one monitoring and controlling early objectives.

Mid lane arguably the second most impactful role. Controlling midlane grants significant map control and gaining a lead allows you to roam bot or top and access to dragon. Even if behind Midlaners generally carry tools to still be useful to the team such as cc or assassination potential.

Adc - The most gold and item dependent class and easiest role to shut down. You won't ever dream of hurting tanks till you get three core items and all your abilities are just outclassed by other champions. Basically you either have enough of a lead to mantain items and gold with other champions or you are just completely worthless.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

This thread got upvotes?

Jungler is arguably the most important role early - mid game. Sets the tempo of the game, snow balls and controls the fate of all 3 lanes, and is the one monitoring and controlling early objectives.

Mid lane arguably the second most impactful role. Controlling midlane grants significant map control and gaining a lead allows you to roam bot or top and access to dragon. Even if behind Midlaners generally carry tools to still be useful to the team such as cc or assassination potential.

Adc - The most gold and item dependent class and easiest role to shut down. You won't ever dream of hurting tanks till you get three core items and all your abilities are just outclassed by other champions. Basically you either have enough of a lead to mantain items and gold with other champions or you are just completely worthless.

jungler and mid lane is a role

ADC is a classe i wonder if you are bronze i didn't check

KatCraftSep 24, 20152 votes

I'm not bronze. And why do you care about my rank?

Woook3rSep 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

jungler and mid lane is a role

ADC is a classe i wonder if you are bronze i didn't check

Did you know that Ahri functions just as well as an adc as some adc's? She has ranged autos, that makes her an adc. Additionally, she has three dashes and ranged cc that is also a displacement, plus a movespeed boost. Infact, leblanc is also a decent adc. So is soraka, and jana.

So when you say that adc is a class and not a role then you are in fact wrong. The reason we dont see ahri in adc is because she is better in ap mid.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Did you know that Ahri functions just as well as an adc as some adc's? She has ranged autos, that makes her an adc. Additionally, she has three dashes and ranged cc that is also a displacement, plus a movespeed boost. Infact, leblanc is also a decent adc. So is soraka, and jana.

So when you say that adc is a class and not a role then you are in fact wrong. The reason we dont see ahri in adc is because she is better in ap mid.

ahri doesn't have steroid, ahri's aa animation sucks. Ahri doesn't scale with AD. Therefore Ahri isn't a ranged carry she is an (AP)assassin that can only kill one target.

ranged carry= someone who scale into late game carries his team by his insane DPS as well as having range (ranged) Every Carry should be able to go bot. Jax or Tryndamere . But ranged ADC (classe) dominate this role right now

Woook3rSep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ahri doesn't have steroid, ahri's aa animation sucks. Ahri doesn't scale with AD. Therefore Ahri isn't a ranged carry she is an (AP)assassin that can only kill one target.

ranged carry= someone who scale into late game carries his team by his insane DPS as well as having range (ranged) Every Carry should be able to go bot. or . But ranged ADC (classe) dominate this role right now

Its the supports that dominate bot lane my friend. Not the adc. 90% of what goes on in bot lane, aside from farming, is in the support's hands.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Its the supports that dominate bot lane my friend. Not the adc. 90% of what goes on in bot lane, aside from farming, is in the support's hands.

support+adc

Marksmen if you prefer, with their range and high base AD poke you easily with no cost. you will have more trouble to farm. Support will also poke you.

lately, marksmen are safer and without them you can't push.

ChargeItDownMidSep 24, 20153 votes

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LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

considering that i dont know any marksmen that even hit the tower even when no one is around none the less when its only the support under the tower this is a non issue

ChargeItDownMidSep 25, 20151 votes

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LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

if you read what i said then you see that i said that the people who play marksmen treat towers like lepracy they are gonna touch it most ranged people dont because there may be a melee character on the opposite side of the tower most likely a tank or a support and those 2 are the only 2 left alive versus your 5 man team but they wont touch the tower unless their melee fighter with the sun fire cloak goes under the tower first

ChargeItDownMidSep 25, 20151 votes

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LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

duh if im talking about how you play its the players. thats how the average player plays in solo despitehaving crit and aproximately 30- 40% lifesteal

ChargeItDownMidSep 25, 20151 votes

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LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

the fact that in 80% of the games i play if we have 5-6 towers i got 4 of them myself and i rarely adc i do the same when i adc but im not an adc main

ChargeItDownMidSep 25, 20151 votes

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LordGeovanniSep 26, 20151 votes

ok there are games where i dont take the most towers or arnt involved in mostof the enemy towers deaths but its not often because unlike most of the people i play with i recouldnize this is a tower defense game. if i was only remembering the games where i was taking towers i would ahve more likely said all instead of 80%.

Woook3rSep 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This thread got upvotes?

Jungler is arguably the most important role early - mid game. Sets the tempo of the game, snow balls and controls the fate of all 3 lanes, and is the one monitoring and controlling early objectives.

Mid lane arguably the second most impactful role. Controlling midlane grants significant map control and gaining a lead allows you to roam bot or top and access to dragon. Even if behind Midlaners generally carry tools to still be useful to the team such as cc or assassination potential.

Adc - The most gold and item dependent class and easiest role to shut down. You won't ever dream of hurting tanks till you get three core items and all your abilities are just outclassed by other champions. Basically you either have enough of a lead to mantain items and gold with other champions or you are just completely worthless.

Oh. An informed opinion has just appeared.

ChargeItDownMidSep 24, 20152 votes

[deleted]

KatCraftSep 24, 20151 votes

Change my post to say Marksmen and my point still applies. Marksmen champs in this game are heavily gold and item dependent and become worthless to the team if they fall behind.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Change my post to say Marksmen and my point still applies. Marksmen champs in this game are heavily gold and item dependent and become worthless to the team if they fall behind.

but why can't we play melee ADC instead of marksmen?

HexaDecimelSep 24, 20151 votes

You could always try Jax, can deal hella damage, you can tear down towers, and imagine if he had a real weapon.

KONO RUBICK DASep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You could always try Jax, can deal hella damage, you can tear down towers, and imagine if he had a real weapon.

differance is jax can be easily focused and denied in lane

i never saw any melee winning bot 2v2 except if the enemies were retarded. support+adc will always have 50 cs more than a melee because it's impossible to farm they have 500 more ranged for -2 AD

HexaDecimelSep 25, 20151 votes

Lol I wasn't saying it was a good idea to take him bot lane. Just that he is a melee champion that can deal a lot of damage and melt turrets which are two of the things people argue an adc should do. Being melee against a ranged enemy will almost always be a big disadvantage.

Trash MammaISep 24, 20153 votes

The junglers main purpose is to get objectives. Objectives aren't going to be taken without a marksman there to help with it

Mid lanes role is to apply the burst damage and roam during laning. Why roam top to help out a tank/bruiser when you can get your marksman fed?

Adc is the role that everyone protects, everyone wants fed, everyone needs to siege, everyone needs to help with objective taking they are the center of the game. Every other role does their job to get the marksman fed, it's annoying.

It makes me happy seeing Morde being sent bot, it's refreshing to have a change.

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

this is more or less true. its not that other roles dont have jobs but not even a fed adc just a farmed adc can undo everything anyone else does. their skills are high base damage and high scaleing typically and they usually have some way to agument thier mobility in addition to attack speed items giving them mobility too on top of other bonuses. and some of them even have cc and its by no means small or insignificant and often can carry large a good amount of damage with it too. assassins are like this too but most of them dont have the saftey of range to help and most assassins used to be able to burst an adc with in 2 seconds if they got to them even when adcs used to build a defensive item adcs now have less defense and it takes assassins 3-5 seconds to kill adcs alone in which time that they have so much damage and life steal to off set any damage they take when coupled with their mobility and or cc. and any time some thing that reliably beats adcs appear the community cries that they cant just stand there and wreck people and riot changes it

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20152 votes

adcs can farm easier than tanks and faster than tanks get their items sooner than tanks. adcs items are diamond compared to the silver armor defensive build and bronze mr defensive build and bronze. and even in a loseing lane adcs are more likely to get kills and as as result gold than tanks who are mainly top lane and have been bullied out of the top in the past year. tanks are even more item dependent than adcs and they get shafted because while adcs get to have great stats and awesome passives or actives tanks get okay stacks with okay passives or sub par passives or they get mediocre stats with okay passives

Meep ManSep 24, 20155 votes

When the community can accept another form of champion class can carry the game (Juggernaut, Mage, Assassin, etc.).

Meep ManSep 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OOzXlWjE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-09-24T17:57:47.240+0000)

When the community can accept another form of champion class can carry the game (Juggernaut, Mage, Assassin, etc.).

I got downvoted, but it is true. Juggernauts become a good class to carry a game. Explosion of complaints. Mages become good and can carry. Complaints about unresponsive burst combos. Assassins become pretty good and can carry. Complaints about their combos being too quick.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OOzXlWjE,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-09-24T18:07:20.300+0000)

I got downvoted, but it is true. Juggernauts become a good class to carry a game. Explosion of complaints. Mages become good and can carry. Complaints about unresponsive burst combos. Assassins become pretty good and can carry. Complaints about their combos being too quick.

retards downvote you.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 24, 20151 votes

No, that's not the reason why they are so important. ADCs, or more specifically, Ranged AD, are important because of their consistent safe damage, tank shredding, and pushing power on taking structures, not because people see them as the only way to carry a game

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20151 votes

despite the fact that tank are supposed to be their counter and a counter to the damage that they do.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 25, 20151 votes

No, tanks are meant to counter burst, not sustained damage. If you hit something long enough, it will break, which is the interaction between ADCs and tanks. Look at it this way:

Tanks > Burst > Sustain damage > Tanks

Or in another way, tanks beat burst, burst beat sustained damage dealers, and sustained damage dealers beat tanks

LordGeovanniSep 26, 20151 votes

and i suppose you think crit isnt burst adcs provide as much burst as mages and assassins in addition to being able to sustain their damage

Trash MammaISep 25, 20151 votes

Which seems far away because marksman love being riots babies

SiytherSep 24, 20154 votes

thats not even true when i adc i find if im shut down early by jungle presence i cant do shit all game there are some exceptions like Jinx Vayne they can be 0/20 at 20 min and at 35 they will kill ur entire team that i do belive is a problem.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

thats not even true when i adc i find if im shut down early by jungle presence i cant do shit all game there are some exceptions like Jinx Vayne they can be 0/20 at 20 min and at 35 they will kill ur entire team that i do belive is a problem.

but you can push right? 90% of in game champs can't push like ADC if they are behind. guess what it's requiered to win.

Rabid HuskySep 25, 20151 votes

if jinx falls behind she has potential to come back she needs to pick it up and have the team help bring her back, vayne on the other hand can easily comeback if she gets BORK

Unlucky Number7Sep 24, 20153 votes

when people start making teams around mordenkaiser bot lane.

DrNovaSep 24, 20152 votes

When there are no more turrents

ZyorhistSep 24, 20152 votes

As the others have said, to properly answer your question you have to look at how the game is designed. The game is designed where players have to destroy structures. These structures have a lot of life and take a long time to kill. They also take reduced damage from mages. Marksman or ADC's are the answer to that. They deal a lot of damage for sustained periods of time. Mages deal burst damage, Assassins deal burst damage, and Tanks soak up damage. Fighters/Bruisers deal a lot of damage in a single attack but have cc, and Juggernauts have special interactions with champions. So when you look at everything you can see that the only class truly able to siege a turret would be the adc, especially if you're trying to go for more than one turret in a single push or even a turret inhib combo.

To answer your question. In order for the ADC to be anything other than the center of the game you have to restructure the basics of the game.

Silents429Sep 24, 20151 votes

because they're good at all stages of the game

Oh my that's rich.

Trash MammaISep 24, 20152 votes

Early game - Yes, they are good. Not really strong/spiking but yes, good Mid game - Spikes start to get hit and they suddenly do tons of damage with just an IE Late game - Best sieging/objective taking control in the game

Silents429Sep 24, 20152 votes

Early: They have no damage early game. They aren't good, they are useless.

Mid: Yeah a core damage item is going to make them stronger, most champions get the ball rolling at mid game.

End: They are the attack damage carries, this is the time when they shine brightest, and not all of them are good at sieging.

KONO RUBICK DASep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Early: They have no damage early game. They aren't good, they are useless.

Mid: Yeah a core damage item is going to make them stronger, most champions get the ball rolling at mid game.

End: They are the attack damage carries, this is the time when they shine brightest, and not all of them are good at sieging.

they have more damage then anyone vayne has 550 range, with doran blade and runes she can have 70 or 75 AD. can poke anyone at lvl 1 with orb walk and no melee champ can deal with her in 1v1

Silents429Sep 25, 20151 votes

No they don't.

Only Play DariusSep 24, 20151 votes

If marksman was so OP you would see 5 of them on each team.

But instead you get Vayne players who will cry nonstop if their Udyr is building BORK because "OMG fuck your damage you need to build pure tank and peel for me" because ADC's get a god complex and believe that they are entitled to a juggermaw comp where everyone sacrifices themselves to meatshield for the ADC simply because they exist.

KONO RUBICK DASep 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OOzXlWjE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-09-24T17:36:23.946+0000)

If marksman was so OP you would see 5 of them on each team.

But instead you get players who will cry nonstop if their is building BORK because "OMG fuck your damage you need to build pure tank and peel for me" because ADC's get a god complex and believe that they are entitled to a juggermaw comp where everyone sacrifices themselves to meatshield for the ADC simply because they exist.

why did they nerf tanks? you hadn't 5 tanks why did they nerf mage? you hadn't 5 mage why did they nerf assassin? you hadn't 5 assassins

this arguments is shit

Trash MammaISep 24, 20151 votes

Varus goes mid these days Quinn/Vayne can go top and there's the normal bot hell people are playing vayne jungle or other weird shit like that.

Marksman are able to do any and everything because if it manages to get to late game they stay relevant. Since games (from my experience) seem impossible to get closed out pre-30 mins because everyone wants to fuck around these days I'd say its an issue