I don't get how can you like adcs being mandatory bot lane.

option paralysis·Aug 20, 2018·20 votes·2,706 views

Game was so much better and more fun when everyone played what the fuck they wanted bot. But ofc adc mains cried and cried and that lasted only for a month. Now meta sheeps are back to playing adcs and there's a jhin in like every game. So much fun being AA-ed by a caitlyn from a mile away and taking half your hp with a single AA. Wow so much fun man. Every game is back to KILL THE ADC OR WE LOSE. How is that fun ? Jungle can be changed every few months, but hey adcs can be broken for literally years and one months they're not "press right click for 600 crit", crying starts.

34 Comments

D357R0Y3RAug 20, 201813 votes

Because I main adc and it's more fun to play against an other adc than swain heimer and vlad

zZ KanKuro ZzAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because I main adc and it's more fun to play against an other adc than swain heimer and vlad

and? bot lane should not be allowed to have diversity? you can play MARKSMAN,tanks and fighters top lane. mage, assassin and sometimes tanks,fighters and MARKMAN mid lane. tanks/fighters/assassins/aps/MARKSMAN in the jungle.

God forbid if the bot position has more than one class viable, thats bad for the game right?

OtterlyLostAug 20, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Terminal Phase,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ONExxnKE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-20T16:34:27.835+0000)

and? bot lane should not be allowed to have diversity? you can play MARKSMAN,tanks and fighters top lane. mage, assassin and sometimes tanks,fighters and MARKMAN mid lane. tanks/fighters/assassins/aps/MARKSMAN in the jungle.

God forbid if the bot position has more than one class viable, thats bad for the game right?

You cannot play all marksmen mid, top, and jungle. That is a patented lie. Post level 3 in solo lanes, Marksmen are sitting ducks and in the jungle many of them cant fend off enemy junglers without help from their laners. They cant contest scuttle crab or clear quickly enough or have enough sustain. Many have poor gank assists as well and rely heavily on red buff.

And before you even bring them up, Quinn and Graves were balanced for other lanes and have been nerfed multiple times for it. They arent even considered traditional marksmen by riot anymore; they're in the same boat as urgot, teemo, and kennen. Kindred is only designed for the jungle and is the only argument for a marksmen outside of bot lane I'd accept.

And by your own argument, there is no reason that other classes cant go to bot lane. Just because theres no precedent on stat websites(because there is none for marksmen in other lanes) doesn't mean it cant work, right?

zZ KanKuro ZzAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You cannot play all marksmen mid, top, and jungle. That is a patented lie. Post level 3 in solo lanes, Marksmen are sitting ducks and in the jungle many of them cant fend off enemy junglers without help from their laners. They cant contest scuttle crab or clear quickly enough or have enough sustain. Many have poor gank assists as well and rely heavily on red buff.

And before you even bring them up, Quinn and Graves were balanced for other lanes and have been nerfed multiple times for it. They arent even considered traditional marksmen by riot anymore; they're in the same boat as urgot, teemo, and kennen. Kindred is only designed for the jungle and is the only argument for a marksmen outside of bot lane I'd accept.

And by your own argument, there is no reason that other classes cant go to bot lane. Just because theres no precedent on stat websites(because there is none for marksmen in other lanes) doesn't mean it cant work, right?

yes

BijeesnyAug 20, 201813 votes

First of all, I don't remember you could play 'what the fuck they wanted bot'. Adc-s just got replace with another set of meta champs. But pls tell me at least 15 champion which were viable in higher elo on bot, since ure dia you could easily tell me that info :)

Secondly, Swain/Vlad bot was a fucking nightmare. At least adc-s are squishy, good luck trying to take down Swain or Vlad who are tanky and can 100-0 you in one rotation while healing.

French CourtesanAug 20, 201810 votes

I really love how people cry about bot lane being mandatory adc lane, while noone is crying about adcs being completely useless in other lane. Let me give you a news flash buddy, that patch brought 4 mages to bot and killed 7 adcs. So much improvement, wow such diversity. Especially when swain was literally 100% pick ban before nerfs. Same with vlad. Samve with Heimer. If you wanna cry about bot being full of adcs, first stop being a fucking hypocrite and start crying for caitlyn mid. Then we can talk.

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I really love how people cry about bot lane being mandatory adc lane, while noone is crying about adcs being completely useless in other lane. Let me give you a news flash buddy, that patch brought 4 mages to bot and killed 7 adcs. So much improvement, wow such diversity. Especially when swain was literally 100% pick ban before nerfs. Same with vlad. Samve with Heimer. If you wanna cry about bot being full of adcs, first stop being a fucking hypocrite and start crying for caitlyn mid. Then we can talk.

But who likes playing vs marksmen in other lanes. Have you ever played an immobile champion toplane vs Vayne or Lucian and gone 'gee wiz I sure am having FUN'? Is it fun to be poked by a ranged carry with 0 counterplay when this ranged carry is supposed to be weak early game to begin with?

D357R0Y3RAug 20, 20184 votes

I agree with vayne

Lucian? are you fucking serious? dude has 500 range 22 sec cd on his dash if you don't beat him as an immobile melee you deserve to lose

let's take Darius for instance, you can simply run at him with Q and poke him everytime and then if he will get forced out of lane while you have 10 base hp regen (and him like 4) and doran's shield

if he uses his dash once to dodge it, you have 22 sec where you can hook him and rape him

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree with vayne

Lucian? are you fucking serious? dude has 500 range 22 sec cd on his dash if you don't beat him as an immobile melee you deserve to lose

let's take Darius for instance, you can simply run at him with Q and poke him everytime and then if he will get forced out of lane while you have 10 base hp regen (and him like 4) and doran's shield

if he uses his dash once to dodge it, you have 22 sec where you can hook him and rape him

Don't you think, while I'm running to him, he is running away? If I run to him and AA, minion aggro fucks me. Moreover, dashes have a higher priority than my 30 second hook. If I hook and he is fast enough to dash out, there goes my only engage and his dash comes back faster than my hook. He rushes Botrk to fuck me completely especially with its active while Im still buying my cleaver/trinity which is further delayed because I need to rush tabi's.

D357R0Y3RAug 20, 20182 votes

wtf are you TALKING ABOUT LOL don't run into him, if he AA you he gets minion agro

when he tries to cs just run and hit him with Q and back, he gets Q damage+passive damage if he hits you he get minion aggro you have WAY more: armor hp hp regen

than him, there is no way he can lane

he rushes botrk

now yes he will become a problem but i'm talking about laning phase

French CourtesanAug 20, 20184 votes

So you want one of the most popular classes to be completely irrelevant in other lanes, while also being sub optimal on only lane they are allowed to exist just because they are not fun to play against on the other lanes? Sounds like perfect reason to make them fucking playable on that one lane they are allowed to exist. And yes I did play top as Darius vs Vayne. Wasnt any worse than playing vs teemo kennen urgot gankplank etc etc. If I cant play caitlyn on top because of that, others shouldnt play those champs on top either.

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So you want one of the most popular classes to be completely irrelevant in other lanes, while also being sub optimal on only lane they are allowed to exist just because they are not fun to play against on the other lanes? Sounds like perfect reason to make them fucking playable on that one lane they are allowed to exist. And yes I did play top as Darius vs Vayne. Wasnt any worse than playing vs teemo kennen urgot gankplank etc etc. If I cant play caitlyn on top because of that, others shouldnt play those champs on top either.

Fuck no.

For the record, I never said they were weak in other lanes, nor strong. They are just boring. For example, playing Darius vs Renekton. Their is so much more gameplay from both sides, as Darius your trying to land your Q all the time and the healing portion turns the fight, as Renekton you want to try to dash into his Q as he casts it and dodge his e with your dash.

What is it with Vayne? instant lose.

Lucian is either you get an early E and kill him quickly turning it into a snowball, or you miss E and you eat a thousand points of damage worth of free Harass.

It just isn't fun, I don't care if I see ADC's mid, jungle and bot but stay out of toplane for the sake of fun.

Also out of context, Ive seen alot of Jhin toplane recently.

Relia FortuneAug 20, 20188 votes

Where else can I take my champions? MissFortune Jinx Caitlyn It was fucking awful. Okay I don't know how the meta is in diamond, but below that you have 100-0 no counter play bs everywhere. Where no one knows how to peel properly and some crap like Jax Khazix Rengar Pantheon Zed MonkeyKing Talon jumps on you and rip. You can't effectively take adcs in many other roles maybe besides Lucian Ezreal Vayne and even then, why wouldn't the jg camp for easy gold? Oh and yesterday I played Akali bot lane vs a draven main and still smashed. So idk what you are on, maybe it's your elo only, you know the elo that consists of 2% of the total players.

Shadow RhaastAug 20, 20181 votes

Go off homie

HayaishiAug 20, 20186 votes

When you make marksmen viable in other lanes then we can talk.

Fízz v2Aug 20, 20185 votes

i just find it funny how riot preaches about how they like the "diversity bot lane", but then they killed all strong non-adc bot laners within 3-4 patches except MAYBE Swain xd

French CourtesanAug 20, 20187 votes

Diversity in bot lane killed 7 adcs. For 4 mages. Wow so diverse.

zZ KanKuro ZzAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Diversity in bot lane killed 7 adcs. For 4 mages. Wow so diverse.

it was diversity, they just needed to buff those adc to a balance state or even better make them viable in other lanes.

OtterlyLostAug 20, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Terminal Phase,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ONExxnKE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T16:38:46.879+0000)

it was diversity, they just needed to buff those adc to a balance state or even better make them viable in other lanes.

They did buff those ADCs. It didn't help. Or dont you remember the buffs to cait, varus, trist, jinx, and vayne. The only one that benefitted was Jinx. Vayne, trist, kog, varus, and cait are still sitting at the bottom.

JackMcSnipeyzAug 20, 20185 votes

Only one who was nerfed was swain lol wtf are you talking about? Oh you're that troll Fizz account

Fízz v2Aug 20, 20181 votes

Vlad? Irelia? Those were the only top tier bot laners anyway xd, maybe Yasuo in soloq and Heimer. Still half of them got nerfed meanwhile Lucian Ezreal Jhin Kaisa Varus Xayah lel

JackMcSnipeyzAug 20, 20182 votes

Xayah was nerfed along with rageblade. Ez was nerfed. Xayah needed to be buffed she's still only pickes with rakkan anyway. Varus only see's play in LCS for his utility.

Vlad, irelia, swain, heimerdinger, yasuo, fiddle all were being played botlane and only swain was nerfed. Go play vlad and heimer botlane, no one is stopping you.

GlaedrAug 20, 20185 votes

Nobody "played what the fuck they wanted" bot. It was a massive meta shift and marksmen were just so weak for the first 30 or so minutes that almost anything with poke and a way to get in would completely shove out any ADC, so people just tried wacky stuff to see what could and couldn't beat them. I have no problem expanding my champion pool for champs like Swain who actually works amazingly well against marksmen who want to position behind the minion wave and has good combo utility with supports. If Riot decides to create more mages like that then awesome, we'll get more bot lane diversity, but if you think an entire class just simply being unviable without funneling or obtaining near-perfect farm for 25+ minutes was completely fine due to some random hamfisted change in the middle of the season, then you are just delusional.

InfernapeAug 20, 20184 votes

Swain bot in a 2v2 lane with an actual support was fun. Fite me.

option paralysisAug 20, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Swain bot in a 2v2 lane with an actual support was fun. Fite me.

yeah, and you weren't forced to play a slave support so you can keep your adc alive, you coulda played mage supps too, or go a kill lane. literally whatever, now it's just back to KEEP THE ADC ALIVE SO HE CAN RIGHT CLICK HUEHUEHEU

D3m37r1Aug 20, 20184 votes

ADC mains think the world revolves around them. Sadly riot agrees.

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ADC mains think the world revolves around them. Sadly riot agrees.

Tyler literally said the reason he plays AD carry is because everything revolves around him. Keep the ADC alive, Make sure the ADC is farming, wait for late game for the ADC.

OtterlyLostAug 20, 20183 votes

When ADCs were shoved out of the game, everything was so much better, huh? That's when everyone started complaining about damage and the game was the least amount of fun this season. ._.

Why doesn't anyone ask,"why should fifteen champions only have one lane?"

Why is it always,"why should fifteen champions be the only things viable in bot lane?"

The 8.11 patch was lazy, poorly handled, and, despite what many people believe, was not an intention by riot to open up "diversity" bot lane. The false diversity that happened in the wake of 8.11 was just the direct result of marksmen having literally been removed from the game for the first 30 minutes. Which was shitty and stupid since the games only lasted an average of 25 minutes.

It was a terrible patch, it was a horrendous midseason update, and all it did was alienate a decent chunk of players from the game. Bot lane play rate dropped like a stone because no bot lane mains wanted to play it. They wanted to play the champions that they liked and felt a connection with without feeling like a lead weight on their teams. And they couldn't do that.

I'm for well handled, well balanced diversity. I am not for whatever that fallout of 8.11 was.

Critmaster GarenAug 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

When ADCs were shoved out of the game,

this never happened. like, it actually didnt happen even right after the crit nerfs.

if you checked most sites like op.gg, league of graphs and lolalytics, then it was only like 3 non marksmen champions that were up there with them in the top 10 bot lane picks at all times.

swain was the highest winrate champion among them being like rank 2 or rank 3 on bot lane after another marksman at rank 1.

over the entire time until the recent patch, you usually had like 1 or 2 marksmen in the top spots, then swain, then some more marksmen, then irelia and yaso, then more marksmen, and rank 12 to 15 or so vlad and heimerdinger.

there was never any statistical evidence that marksmen, and even crit marksmen, stopped seeing play entirely or were pushed out of bot lane.

like Ashe and Draven Jhin were actually among the highest winrate champions on bot lane in the period after 8.11. and all 3 are crit marksmen.

SwiftKitten88Aug 20, 20183 votes

id rather them be mandatory bot lane than deal with them in any other lane

JackMcSnipeyzAug 20, 20183 votes

No one played what they want lol, everyone played a selection of 3 mages and yasuo. None of which were nerfed by the way, with the exception of swain, so what's stopping you from picking them anyway?

Oh yea, you didnt touch botlane with a stick because it was a cancer lane of AoE CC locks and 1 shot mages battles.

Critmaster GarenAug 20, 20182 votes

they should give Heimerdinger a mini rework to fit better into bot lane imo.

hes pretty much cancer against any type of champion than those with strong, resourceless ranged damage (which would be all marksmen) who can remove his turrets about as fast as he can place them.

against melee on top lane, hes absolute cancer, and there is a good chunk of melee champions who have no answer to his kit and arent able to deal with him setting up a nest of turrets and poking them out of lane, at all.

on mid lane against mages, hes almost as bad, since mages cant keep up forever with his turret spam and perma shove. they run oom at some point trying to clear his turrets or shoving back the waves.

he fits better into bot lane as an apc with a support at his side than anywhere else on the map.

BurakkuRozu9Aug 20, 20182 votes

Bot lane still has diversity? You can play any champion bot if you are good enough. All they did was remove an entire subset of champions from the entire game and replaced them with champions that can be played in at least 2 other roles.

JaspersAug 20, 20181 votes

checks op.gg 'Bottom' play rate stats

So Swain is holding strong but Heimer is already out.

"Bottom" should not be reserved for 18/141 champs (13% for a role covering 20%). Bot is just the role, you can play any 'carry' botlane, that's the point.

Heimer is better suited for Bottom where enemies can counter his turrets easily as they have range, he can be safe without a support and he's not annoying top laners. Riot need to encourage Heimer bot because it will give him somewhere to be as currently, he has no place in the game.

EDIT: Yasuo is still there as well... okay, so that's 17. What a time, when Yasuo is played Bot but not Quinn.