Riot has spent so much time trying to get Tank Ekko under control that....

ChaddyFantome·Nov 21, 2016·7 votes·974 views

They never even considered for a moment whether AP Ekko is even balanced.

Patch after patch we saw nerfs trying to lower tank ekko's prevalence and over bearing nature while giving buffs to AP Ekko so people would play him the way Riot intended, but now we have come full circle.

While Tank Ekko is actually relatively balanced now, AP Ekko is busted.

Right now he is doing 80% of a Squishies HP bar With just E.

Maybe this was part of Riot's plan, as if people weren't playing him AP, they couldn't even assess his state and actually balance him in the way he needs to be, but christ is he cancer.

Especially now that his Ulti is a true reset.

27 Comments

Big LincolnNov 21, 20164 votes

yeah his ratios are way too high + extra ratios on the items he gets, protobelt and lich bane. .

but he has to have strong scaling because of his spells being delayed

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEUkQPo4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-21T15:56:24.354+0000)

yeah his ratios are way too high + extra ratios on the items he gets, protobelt and lich bane. .

but he has to have strong scaling because of his spells being delayed

I have no problem with that, my issue is he has way too much upfront damage right now.

He doesn't need to land shit right now because 80% of your HP can be taken with just his E and the rest with protobelt.

dakota saturnNov 21, 20163 votes

Downvoted for no reason because this is forums. Discussion not allowed here.

Edge of DaybreakNov 21, 20163 votes

What discussion is there to be had with someone who claims that his E takes 80% of someone's health? The delusion is too strong to sway at that point.

RavenhaleNov 21, 20162 votes

It depends on what stage we are in the game for that to be true. If we have an Ekko with Void Staff/Death Cap that is +3 levels on an ADC... Ekko needs a Koolaid Man Skin.

Edge of DaybreakNov 21, 20162 votes

it's mathematically impossible at all stages in the game. Ekko's E only has a .4 ratio with 140 base damage. With 800 ap you only deal 460 damage that isnt 80% of any champion unless they are level 1-3. I didn't even bother pointing out the claim that his ult is a true reset because I'm still baffled that anyone upvoted this.

GookkakeNov 21, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bloodborn Knight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEUkQPo4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-21T16:05:09.690+0000)

it's mathematically impossible at all stages in the game. Ekko's E only has a .4 ratio with 140 base damage. With 800 ap you only deal 460 damage that isnt 80% of any champion unless they are level 1-3. I didn't even bother pointing out the claim that his ult is a true reset because I'm still baffled that anyone upvoted this.

Oh well maybe he means with Lichbane, Ludens, Protobelt but then again if he does it with the items its fine.

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bloodborn Knight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEUkQPo4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-21T15:49:53.381+0000)

What discussion is there to be had with someone who claims that his E takes 80% of someone's health? The delusion is too strong to sway at that point.

His E plus item 3100 and/or item 3285 easily deals that much damage. I don't know why you are pretending I am making stuff up here.

ViiLLAiNNov 21, 20162 votes

yeah he does a shit ton of dmg goiing ap now its disigusting

RavenhaleNov 21, 20162 votes

Well...

I think the complaint of "OMG, Ekko does so much damage without building AP!!!" is more of a concern than "OMG, Ekko does so much damage when he builds AP!!!"

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well...

I think the complaint of "OMG, Ekko does so much damage without building AP!!!" is more of a concern than "OMG, Ekko does so much damage when he builds AP!!!"

I have no problem with Ekko dealing damage. I have an issue when he just needs to E me.

AstôlfoNov 21, 20161 votes

Or you could dodge his fucking ridiculously slow skills and/or get MR and/or stick with your team? Stop crying.

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Or you could dodge his fucking ridiculously slow skills

How do u dodge E? How is it slow?

Ekko doesn't need to land anythign to kill you

and/or get MR and/or stick with your team?

I did. I still died then he just pressed R.

Stop crying.

Nice discussion there.

AstôlfoNov 21, 20161 votes

By staying out of its range if you're alone? Or not being dumb enough to be alone?

Mmk, whatever you need to tell yourself.

Then you and/or your team did something wrong.

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

By staying out of its range if you're alone?

It has a dash on it with a click blink. You can't use that argument for a freaking omidirectional dash. If he wants to be near me, he will get there.

One of the p[rimary things changed with assassins was to lower their upfront burst. Why does Ekko get to be the exception to the rule?

Or not being dumb enough to be alone?

Can't read or something?

I was standing with my entire team.

Mmk, whatever you need to tell yourself. Then you and/or your team did something wrong.

Riiiight.

AstôlfoNov 21, 20161 votes

And... even with the dash + blink range, it's still finite. Stay out of it. If you're with your entire team and he's dumb enough to jump right into it, you should not have ever died, between them CCing him and you backing out of the way.

UnpaladinNov 21, 20161 votes

You say that but his E>Q>autoattack combo is relatively effortless and is incredibly effective at bursting squishies without having to telegraph anything. His E is also a point and click on a small cooldown at that point in the game, meaning if he gets to opportunity to it'll definitely happen. Don't forget he builds movement speed which leads to this combo being used more often than you'd think.

If you get hit by his delayed attacks that's fine, but honestly OP's concern is still decent somewhat, considering how the latest assassin update intended to make it harder for assassins to pull off this kind of thing.

AstôlfoNov 21, 20161 votes

Assassins excel at picking off solo targets (or at least they used to before they got gutted). That is perfectly fine. You shouldn't be alone.

In the case you're with your team, you really should not be dying at all to any assassin. Said team can CC them immediately while you back out of their effective range while avoiding the majority of said combo attempt.

Leo1024Nov 21, 20161 votes

All ap champs do huge damage at the cost of low hp, think lux, velkoz and cass, ekko is finally where he needs to be, his base damage was already nerfed as well as health stats and now he has been buffed for greatness

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

All ap champs do huge damage at the cost of low hp,

item 3027 item 3151 item 3152 item 3030

Idk what game you are playing, but it aint league of legends.

think lux, velkoz and cass,

Why are you comparing a skirmishing assassin to mages again?

ekko is finally where he needs to be, his base damage was already nerfed as well as health stats and now he has been buffed for greatness

You aren't doing much to defend his state here by simply saying , "Nuh uh".

Leo1024Nov 21, 20161 votes

that is THE shittiest build i've ever seen, generally you want an or depending on the matchup, never in a million years would anyone use that garbage build, i'd rather buy a over a LUL
again, i generalized them as ap champs, not by mages or their mobility

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

that is THE shittiest build i've ever seen, generally you want an or depending on the matchup, never in a million years would anyone use that garbage build, i'd rather buy a over a LUL

Who the hell said this was an actual build? i gave you a list of commonly purchased AP items with butt-tons of HP to point out how your claim is ass.

Please try to keep up.

again, i generalized them as ap champs, not by mages or their mobility

And that is quite honestly retarded, lest we start treating Bruisers and AD Assassins like Marksman.

Swiftstrike4Nov 21, 20161 votes

AP Ekko is pretty much fine, he is just more bursty which I am totally fine with. The more he is like an assassin the better his play.

The problem with tankko was that he was doing massive amounts of damage, not building damage, and was almost impossible to catch and kill.

He had no moments of weakness, or narrow windows of weakness.

Now he can be killed and the trade off is the AP damage. I will take that. He is now just a fizz with more utility.

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

AP Ekko is pretty much fine, he is just more bursty which I am totally fine with. The more he is like an assassin the better his play.

The problem with tankko was that he was doing massive amounts of damage, not building damage, and was almost impossible to catch and kill.

He had no moments of weakness, or narrow windows of weakness.

That doesn't excuse him from actually being questioned on whether is actual AP state is balanced or not.

Now he can be killed and the trade off is the AP damage. I will take that. He is now just a fizz with more utility. If you can ever boil down a champion to X champion + something, generally it means the champ is overloaded.

Now I am not trying to say he is, but I just wanted to point this out.

Yes, that was the issue with Tankko. No one is saying otherwise.

But just because Tankko was dumb doesn't mean AP Ekko is unarguably and inherently balanced

Swiftstrike4Nov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't excuse him from actually being questioned on whether is actual AP state is balanced or not. If you can ever boil down a champion to X champion + something, generally it means the champ is overloaded.

Now I am not trying to say he is, but I just wanted to point this out.

Yes, that was the issue with Tankko. No one is saying otherwise.

But just because Tankko was dumb doesn't mean AP Ekko is unarguably and inherently balanced

I think his win rate and play rate indicates that he is in an OK spot and not grossly unbalanced. They might adjust some of his ratios at the start of the season, but right now there are higher priority balance issues than AP Ekko.

He is something in between an burst mage and an assassin, and I think that is an OK spot for him because now he is killable and prior he was not.

He also has 2 really easy to dodge skills. Before if tank ekko decided to stay on you, you couldnt get away, now he can't just keep spamming his spells to stay on you, because he is susceptible to dying by staying on a target too long.

I still think his ultimate is bullshit, but I have thought that his ultimate was a problem with the champion's kit since he was released.

He is tolerable now, and there are other mages that need tweaks before AP ekko.

ChaddyFantomeNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think his win rate and play rate indicates that he is in an OK spot and not grossly unbalanced. They might adjust some of his ratios at the start of the season, but right now there are higher priority balance issues than AP Ekko.

Fair enough