It's time to admit most champs only get complained about because they are popular.

ChaddyFantome·May 30, 2017·105 votes·4,090 views

Now I am not saying that every champ is balanced and only gets bitched about because they are popular, but time and time again i will see champs that never get complained about and receive marginal changes for months on end suddenly get complained about for no other reason than them gaining traction and seeing more play.

Which makes perfect sense. I mean, i hate Yasuo as much as the next guy, but would people really complain about him as much if he wasn't in 90% of normal games?

Same applies to most other FotM champs. If it wasn't for them being FotM, i doubt anyone would complain about the majority of them, and thus they get banned and it increases the stigma and then they see even more play as a result when they aren't banned.

184 Comments

AeszarckMay 30, 201725 votes

I agree. If Yasuo were considered to be one of the hipster "forgotten" Champions like pre-rework Galio or Urgot, no one would be complaining about him, Yasuo mains would be considered cool just for maining the champ, any requests to nerf the Champion would be met with outrage, etc. At the same time, if someone like Karthus had a 40% playrate, everyone would be crying that he is so unfair to play against and deserves a nerf/rework and how his players are terrible people, etc.

notice me Sin piMay 30, 20174 votes

when Jhin was fotm champ with 20%+ pick rate and 55%+ win rate in addition to being near 100% pick/ban in LCS, i havent seen anyone complain about him aside from myself.

Not all champs are hated just for popularity.

edit: DFT meta, not lethality meta

SkorchMay 31, 20172 votes

He got a fair amount of hate. In fact prob the most hate between him, MF and Varus.

But now look at the poor artist.

DreadlocksMay 30, 20174 votes

At the same time, if someone like Karthus had a 40% playrate, everyone would be crying that he is so unfair to play against and deserves a nerf/rework and how his players are terrible people, etc.

Only took Ahri what, 2.5 seasons to finally get some kind of decent nerf? xD

NineTailedMysticMay 30, 20176 votes

Because she was fine until post Assassin Update recipients got dumpstered.

Also Ahri only hit a 22% PR as far as I'm aware. Compare to Lucian or Lee who hit 40-50%.

DreadlocksMay 30, 20175 votes

"she was fine" says the Ahri main.. Bro you don't need to be so biased.. Ahri has held a 51-56% winrate since the removal of DFG.. that isn't "Fine" and her play rate is only 22%? Its been top 5 highest playrates for the same amount of time. She's the jack of all trades for mid-lane and she did it better than Lee Sin did in the jungle..

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but her nerf was way over-due.

NineTailedMysticMay 30, 20174 votes

I don't see whats wrong with a 51-52% WR. And the highest she got was 54% not 56%.

Ahri has always been very popular. Before she became this "huge monster that absolutely needs nerfed" she held a 12% PR. And I don't see what's wrong with a generalist when they're not better than specialists at their niche.

Long over-due? No, not really. She's only needed one for the past month or so, and they still nerfed the wrong thing.

SlythionMay 30, 201716 votes

LeeSin and Yasuo are the most common circlejerks. If they weren't popular, I'm confident any "nerf this champ plz" thread directed at these two would be laughed at

The WhamboozlerMay 30, 20176 votes

Yes, being popular makes you more likely to be complained about. But that doesn't mean that being popular means every complaint about you is invalid, bro.

That's a hell of a logical fallacy if you're saying that.

RealČernochHoursMay 30, 20172 votes

They are popular not because they are OP (They are/were but you have to be really good to make use of their power) but ~~because they are just super fun to play.~~ because of muh montages /s

SlythionMay 30, 20171 votes

just as J3lack said, they are popular because they are fun to play as champions and create great montages. They aren't popular (anymore) because they are necessarily OP.

Do they have bullshit aspects to their kit? Ya, just as every champion has something that is bullshit about their kit. If Urgot was popular, the boards would be exploding with complaints about his dumbass auto-lock poke ability, I guarentee you on that.

People just get tired of seeing the same bs every game. I'm guilty of this myself, as I hated yasuo for so long. But there is a fine line between recognizing a champion is too popular and claiming they are more cancer than the rest.

And nah, being popular is still something to complain about. I recognize that, but people claim a champion is too cancer when in reality, they just see them more often than they like. And for champs like Lee and Yasuo, the boards misidentifies them as "OP" when in reality, they are just popular.

ShahamutMay 30, 20172 votes

I dont know enough about Lee, but I know for me, I hate seeing him so often is my major complaint. I don't think hes op.

Yasuo, I almost never see in game, he is either not picked or he is banned (more often). I enjoy playing Yasuo, but I can say that although he is not OP, there are a few areas of his kit that you could trim up to try and remove excess power (heck even move it if need be to other parts of his kit.)

You could level gate his crit damage to aid in trimming down his early game power, -20/15/10% damage levels 1/6/11. This obviously wont affect his level 1 and 2, but I think a large part of that is due to fervor, and would want to wait before doing anything else. If it needs more, you have his Q stop applying on hit affects.
His windwall is a necessary part of its kit, but it lasts too long and gets huge. Give it a standard size (like rank 2?) and make it last 3 seconds at all ranks. No longer than a Morgana binding. That is long enough.
His Ult. I don't mind that it places him outside of tower range, as long as he is still WITHIN MELEE RANGE of a target. Otherwise, he should take tower aggro like any other would-be diver.

Yasuo is not OP, but I think his power curve is a little strong early for as hard as he scales. He should be able to function in lane, but I think he does more than just function atm.

Still, not worth a ban in my opinion.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Yes, being popular makes you more likely to be complained about. But that doesn't mean that being popular means every complaint about you is invalid, bro.

That's a hell of a logical fallacy if you're saying that.

While you are correct, you are strawmanning the fuck out of his post. he never claimed that every complaint about popular champs is unjustified.

looking pretty "irony" there m8.

MarshbouyMay 30, 20173 votes

Exactly. IF they had .02% playrates then people would scream at people who said that their kits were toxic to play against.

AnastaeciaMay 30, 201713 votes

And champs are popular because they are OP. SO people are actually complaining about the OPness, which is kind of standard.

I feel like I'm missing some point here.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 201736 votes

{quoted}

And champs are popular because they are OP.

Not necessarily. Statistics say otherwise for a great number of them.

AnastaeciaMay 30, 20173 votes

Statistics don't mean a thing. They can be manipulated to mean what you want them to.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 201739 votes

This is some conspiracy theorist level bullshit , right here lmao.

AnastaeciaMay 30, 20173 votes

Then present me your stats. And what you are trying to prove with them?

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 201714 votes

Would you say Anivia is an OP champ that needs to be gutted/nerfed?

AnastaeciaMay 30, 20174 votes

So, you are looking at win rates. Her win rate is anywhere from 1 to 30, btw, depending on the site, so first you need accurate stats if you are gonna start throwing them around.

Now then, win rates don't signify whether a champ is good or not. There are 9 other champs running around that help determine the outcome of a game. Why don't we look at KDA or CS or warding or ganking? There are 100 stats you can use to determine whether a champ is OP or popular or hated, etc.

SO again, I ask what exact stats are you using to prove what exact point?

JoxcabMay 30, 201721 votes

OP.GG, 54.16% winrate, 6.73% playrate. Second highest winrate, ninth highest playrate.

The 9 other champions don't fucking matter because they balance each other out and basically neutralize each other with good and bad picks/players equally.

She is statistically both extremely strong and popular. Most people would call almost any champion with those stats OP.

So do you think she's OP? Or is OP.GG in some massive conspiracy? LMAO.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Andrey0345May 30, 20171 votes

It's actually weird how such difficult champion can have such high winrate, including that playrate.

ThefrostyvikingMay 30, 20179 votes

I think that any half successful midlaner can learn to play her, as long as you can land her Q and position ulti right you're good.

If you also use the wall well then you are great.

Difficulty is merely getting going with her, she is slow and somewhat clunky but strong for it.

AmazoXMay 30, 201711 votes

This is the harsh truth whether the community accepts it or not.

Majority of the players in LoL are low ELO, We'd see more complains about Veigar than Yasuo if Veigar were to be popular.

AnidanMay 30, 20173 votes

This is actually verifiable if you go back to when Veigar support had a high pick-rate. During that time I saw more Veigar posts than Yasuo or Lee posts in any given day. There are champions that people would hate far, far more than Lee or Yasuo if they were popular, and the only thing that saves them from "a rework is required!" is the fact that they aren't as popular.

If a champion's playrate goes up, people will complain that they need nerfs or a rework. If you change absolutely nothing at all about them and their pickrate goes down the complaining will stop and people will actually start to defend them against ideas for nerfs.

CochoMay 30, 20179 votes

yasuo isnt in most of my games. He gets banned lol. He's still annoying.

This champ Hecarim i don't like. His play rate doesnt matter.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 20174 votes

{quoted}

yasuo isnt in most of my games. He gets banned lol. He's still annoying.

There you go tho. in games where he isn't banned, he almost always gets picked.

In blind pick, it is rare not to see a Yasuo in the game and common to see yasuo V yasuo games.

This champ i don't like. His play rate doesn't matter.

~~For the record, i hate the pony as well.~~

EedatMay 30, 20177 votes

Syndra gets pick in LCS

"OMG OP! RITO SO BROKEN WTF AOIGOPSIZYNZONZRINOZHOZDHONZH!!!!!!!!!"

Syndra stops getting picked in the LCS

"What were we complaining about? oh yeah LeeSin PIECE OF S^%$ BROKEN OP FAVORITISM OMG RITO TRASH"

CatastropMay 30, 20174 votes

I was legit scarred off of playing Syndra because of this fiasco.

58697132DEL1May 30, 20174 votes

Jumping off this I wanna address the "this character is popular so they will be auto/permabanned FOREVER!" mentality

I seen a lot of folks on here all about that 10 ban "permaban" bullshit and it's annoying. Like everyone assumes im just a "yas is cancer" hater when i say i always ban him but truth? I just play a SHIT ton of champs yasuo counters. Like Caitlyn Ekko Janna Jinx Lux Lulu Veigar

(well more like yasuos wind wall counters them lol) so i mean, he's an auto ban usually. on the rare chance im not playing someone he counters, i ban a counter pick to who i am using. Popularity and even their current "power" doesnt mean squat when you're banning. those are decisions meant to OPTIMIZE your chances of succeeding.

Like I legit thought that was basic banning strats. If you don't have a personal grudge, or if you just don't care, ban one of your hard counters. Hell i've GOOGLED my bans many times before. If you're a well clicked team you'll actually even know to target your bans towards a specific lane and force them into an unlikely pick. In short i think people need to break their mental connection to "popular = powerful = must ban" because that's just hindfering you're pregame. you're already assuming a games gonna be harder if X isn't banned when really no one knows until at LEAST that 5 min mark.

DoktorKaiserMay 30, 20173 votes

If you complain about a champ that has very low pick rate, their dedicated mains will just downvote you to hell and not many people will bother to upvote because they rarely see the champ and dont give a fuck.

Its easy to complain about Yasuo because you face him and his bullshit every single game and 90% of the community is sick of it so they will support your hate post. Imagine that I made a post about a champion I considered to have maybe even the least counterplay in the game but I see her once every 250 games - Diana, I would immediately get fucked by her mains and since not many people see her at all they will be like "hmmmm I dont recall Diana being broken, lets downvote too" and your post goes to shit.

Thats pretty much how it works.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 20172 votes

True. I've been complaining about Ahri for 3 seasons now but people are only now realizing how stupid she is.

THE RlVER KlNGMay 30, 20173 votes

It's also because you see them every game.

I'm as scared as a good Urgot player as the next guy, and he pumps out a ridiculous amount of damage in the right hands, with his ulti to boot. But you don't ever see Urgot, and so if you complain that he's too strong or whatever, people will laugh at you and say you're bad.

But if you complain about the champion you saw in the last 12 games who seemed to dominate each one, then people will say 'hey, maybe he/she has a point'. Just something to consider.

The Angriest OwlMay 30, 20173 votes

Yasuo isn't FotM. Months go by and he's still "flavor"

TimX24968BMay 30, 20172 votes

he's FOTY flavor of the year (or FOTD for flavor of the decade if you're really that annoyed with him)

DivewingMay 31, 20173 votes

Funny thing is, stuff like jayce, whose popularity and OPness fluctuates regularly, is something that I would complain about every second but I'd rather not draw attention to it...

Maybe it's me being paranoid, but Jayce could be the least played champion and I'd still hate him

AirKingNeoMay 30, 20172 votes

I'm complaining about Lulu being popular? No, I'm complaining about Lulu being overpowered.

ninjaroxasMay 30, 20174 votes

Expect she wasn't op for a long time and out of nowhere with zero changes made to her or even items she built she became op.

AirKingNeoMay 30, 20172 votes

But the items she built did get changed and the champion was changed.

TimX24968BMay 30, 20171 votes

no, you're complaining about not knowing how to deal with her since she's not popular.

AirKingNeoMay 30, 20172 votes

I know how to play around Lulu. Doesn't change the fact her polymorph should not be 2.5 seconds long.

ChaddyFantomeMay 30, 20174 votes

Doesn't change the fact her polymorph should not be 2.5 seconds long.

good thing it isn't that long then.

Off Meta EvanMay 30, 20172 votes

typically there are 3 reasons to hate a champ

annoying: Teemo

OP: Lucian

popular AF: LeeSin

or some kind of combination of the 3: Ahri

WinTheWarOnPantsMay 30, 20175 votes

I will never understand how people single out teemo as being annoying. Ever since they gutted his ult, his only real means of being annoying was lost as well.

TimX24968BMay 30, 20172 votes

typically toplane teemo. any ranged toplaner is just annoying in general.

WinTheWarOnPantsMay 30, 20172 votes

Exactly. there's far more toxic and annoying ranged top laners than teemo. Quinn Jayce Heimerdinger Gnar Lulu Kennen Kayle and some melee that are just as bad or worse Darius Pantheon TahmKench MonkeyKing

DragonSheaMay 30, 20172 votes

True. Good thing I mostly play champs that fly under the radar.

RossoniousMay 31, 20172 votes

Now I'm back playing again you're gonna see pissed off people posting to nerf Bard!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

LordGeovanniMay 31, 20172 votes

True because when they are popular you see their problems more often. When i complain about riven her not being the most popular champion is the only response i ever get that says why she wouldnt be nerfed other than that its shes balanced i cant tell you how but trust me she is and if she doesnt get kills she is useless but can still 1v2 you under your tower so just let her get free objectives so you dont feed her they want you to give her what kill advantages are used for to stop her from getting a kill advantage Its not that no one complains about them unless y they are popular but you dont get support and less people complain if they arent popular because they dont encounter the problems