Deathfire Grasp has been removed from Summoner's Rift on the PBE

FalconPawwwwnch·Jan 13, 2015·67 votes·27,373 views

Not sure if intentional or not as of now but apparently it's not available in Summoner's Rift atm

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/01/113-pbe-update.html

I personally don't care, the item's been hella problematic and has caused a ton of champions to be nerfed/changed/balanced because of it in the past (Katarina, Ahri, Syndra, Evelynn, Annie, etc), so Riot could finally make it so they don't rely on a broken item to be good and can balance them appropriately

What are your thoughts

Edit: Confirmed, DFG is going to be removed in 5.2 http://puu.sh/eu9en/0998f21e34.png

225 Comments

AHeroNamedHawkeJan 14, 201564 votes

http://i.imgur.com/dWeexHE.jpg

PyroJan 14, 201514 votes

They're nerfing him as well

[{quoted}](name=Riot Jag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GinIa17t,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-14T01:00:50.369+0000)

One of the other character classes we're looking at in 5.2 in Assassins. Some assassins have top tier burst potential that is loaded onto high reliability spells (think Akali or Fizz here) and don't have enough real weaknesses to compensate. Others may simply be too strong along a variety of dimensions; Zed being one of the best 1v1 champions in the game and an extremely efficient tower diver helps make him a super split pusher. However, him having such strong tower killing statistics (e.g. AS, bonus AD from W passive) on top of that makes for an overwhelming combination.

Riot admits that a secondary passive on a CertainlyT's champion is too much? What's next, Lee Sin nerfs? ;)

On a serious note, as much as I hate playing against Zed (not nearly enough as vs Fizz, tho) and never really played him myself, is it the best idea to nerf what's so good about him (1v1, pushing power)? Why not emphasize his weak points instead?

A simple yet effective change would be having Q deal reduced damage when going through creeps (like Sivir's Q). This way he wouldn't be so damn safe farming in lane, even under tower.

Grunt666Jan 14, 201515 votes

{quoted}

They're nerfing him as well

Riot admits that a secondary passive on a CertainlyT's champion is too much? What's next, Lee Sin nerfs? ;)

On a serious note, as much as I hate playing against Zed (not nearly enough as vs Fizz, tho) and never really played him myself, is it the best idea to nerf what's so good about him (1v1, pushing power)? Why not emphasize his weak points instead?

A simple yet effective change would be having Q deal reduced damage when going through creeps (like Sivir's Q). This way he wouldn't be so damn safe farming in lane, even under tower.

Because when you can delete anyone 1v1 you have no weak points and never will have anything weak enough to matter, when people only option is to avoid you there is an issue and i think that is the problem will all assasins in the game right now, they are not assassin who get kills of opporutinity from unsuspecting injured victims, they are burst duelists who noone can stand up to.

AbyssphereJan 14, 201534 votes

Because Zed wasn't better than any AP assassin already.

PyroJan 14, 201523 votes

"We've decided that an item with active dealing 15% HP damage made assassins too strong, so we've removed it"

item 3153

EndlessSorcererJan 14, 201513 votes

The issue was less the 15% HP, more the damage amplification.

CupcakeTrapJan 14, 201531 votes

Veigar item 3070 Lulu Daww, what's wrong? Veigar G-GO AWAY!

Jungle Lux GodJan 14, 201512 votes

I'm pretty sure that Riot said that they were going to buff some of the champs that were either previously nerfed some of the champs that were OP with DFG or that relied on DFG too much, of which Veigar is included.

Bouffon dAnglaisJan 14, 20158 votes

Thats so sad.... But Veigar, don't you cry, Rito senpai is here to help you...

YfrappefortJan 14, 201522 votes

So they can finally revert the nerfs they gave Ahri that pretty much forced her into being an assassin?

Without DFG, she will need some buffs.

YoellaJan 14, 201516 votes

I have mixed feelings about DFG being taken away. On one hand, item 3128 the 15% max hp as magic damage + taking 20% more magic damage for 4 seconds seems way too strong, on the other hand it's a powerful, and often core, AP item that's now not in the picture. This is going to hurt AP champions a LOT just regarding the stats. There had better be a replacement item going online at the same time or I'll be pissed off.

I feel like a smarter decision would've been to nerf it, make it 120 AP + 20% CDR (or 15 magic pen), but change the active to be like BORK's item 3153 10% damage/self heal, except in magic damage instead of physical, and get rid of the 15% max HP magic damage and 20% extra magic damage for 4 seconds.

AudiomancyJan 14, 201514 votes

What's that? Assassins are dominating mid lane!? Better nerf mages.

Riot Games.

Leblancs BoobJan 14, 201513 votes

Meanwhile Zed

StephenizgodJan 14, 201512 votes

OH NO!!! WHY RITO WHHHYYYYY!!! AS IF MORDEKAISER's ULT WASNT ALREADY WEAK ENOUGH NOW YOU TAKE AWAY ONE OF HIS CORE ITEMS?!?!

Mordekaiser might as well remove him from the game as well :(

But seriously if they remove DFG they need to buff Morde cuz that seriously makes him somewhat of a threat, DFG Ult Ignite on ADC then melt them, turn 1v5 into 2v4 then 2v0 and walk away with Penta. While i have never gotten a Penta with Morde i have gotten several Quadras and lots of Triples, all thanks to DFG Ult.

The5lackerJan 14, 201512 votes

I think they could rework it as "Not a hyper-assassin" item by making it more like Blackfire Torch, I.E. not a 120 AP item.

I dunno, Fiendish Codex + Haunting Guise, 80 AP, 200 Health, 15 Mpen, and a marking ability that amplifies damage? Could see that being useful without being the end-all be-all of AP assassin tools.

SmokingPuffinJan 14, 201510 votes

I don't like the existence of DFG, it warps so many champions. Unfortunately, it's going to be quite a lot of balancing work to remove the thing and with so little time before the start of the season I think it's unwise to try.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 14, 20159 votes

This is a nice change for reasons stated.

But I wonder which champions will Riot inevitably forget about?

AllvandorJan 14, 201517 votes

Mordekaiser and to a lesser extent Diana

I say to a lesser extent because it's more likely they'll forget about Morde building it than Diana, not because it's more core on Morde (though that's debatable.)

Malicious MetalJan 14, 20152 votes

Well I kinda main Morde and never build it :P But hey, I play him as an AP-Bruiser top.

Der MetzgerJan 14, 20159 votes

no more ap shaco top :( item 3070 Shaco

Grunt666Jan 14, 20158 votes

good it was a broken item that trivialized gameplay, her derr ill press 3 buttons and delete you., next up bork hopefully.

LeeDarkJan 14, 20158 votes

Yeah, now it's just "Hurr durr, you used everything you had and I'm still at 1/3 health. I'll just autoattack you to death in 3 seconds and lifesteal all that damage back."

Lucky Riot will always bow before the "ADC is god" meta.

MrBuffingtonJan 14, 20157 votes

RIP in peace DFGaren

I am interested to see how this affects traditional mages though, namely what kind of balance changes they make to champs to compensate. Not going to call anything too much now; as I mentioned earlier it does put a rut in some more unorthodox builds that could be seen (DFGaren the most obvious, but things like DFG Amumu or Elise were also pretty cool), which kind of sucks, but maybe it's healthier for the game overall; we'll see.

agbudarJan 14, 20156 votes

mordekaiser will never catch a break that guy has been indirectly nerfed soo fukin much with item removals and item nerfs i lost count.

o Majesty oJan 14, 20156 votes

LOL Riot really** HATES MID LANE** in general imo.. first the MANA REGEN NERFS.. mana reliant mid lane champs are slowly getting non popular and not played becoz of the mana issues.. especially Mages who heavily rely on mana to even be significant.. at least ADC's dont really have to use skills to have a purpose and tanks / bruisers are there to soak up dmg or maybe jst split push all day so they dont also have to rely too much on mana to be of use and now they're taking out DFG which will also KILL more mid lane champs even those non mana reliant champs and make them trash tier.. LOL i can literally see the meta shifting to NON MANA RELIANT AD CHAMPS ONLY coz if you play any champ that uses MANA and is AP you'll just lose..

RebonackJan 14, 20155 votes

If Riot buffs AP Assassins after removing DFG and doesn't give Blackfire Torch over in Dominion the axe as well, I'm going to be seriously upset.

We don't need LeB and Fizz to be more absurd than they already are.

DynamiteGazelleJan 14, 20154 votes

Why would they remove an item that is core to so many champions right before ranked resets? Just seems a bit unfair to me. At least just tweak it or something before you erase it altogether

KingsgraveJan 14, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Why would they remove an item that is core to so many champions right before ranked resets? Just seems a bit unfair to me. At least just tweak it or something before you erase it altogether

this would be like the 8th time they tweaked it instead of removing it if they decided to not remove it.

DynamiteGazelleJan 14, 201513 votes

Coulda picked a better time though..

Kinda like saying, hey adc's we're removing Infinity Edge. Oh btw, good luck in ranked next week!

LlaniteJan 14, 20151 votes

You'd rather to have it changed mid season and ruin people experience?

DynamiteGazelleJan 14, 20155 votes

Yes, because then people whose mains relied on the item wouldn't have to relearn their champion literally days before ranked resets.

AuryielJan 14, 20154 votes

They better make another high AP, cdr item to replace it

StoningtonJan 14, 20154 votes

We need a high AP item that gives 10% cdr. That is all.

FLY SlotmachinerJan 14, 20154 votes

Well at least they are buffing the champions that required DFG for a reliable burst (Ex: Veigar Ahri Syndra ) Honestly, if they buff the champions that really need it, I say its worth DFG being removed from Summoners Rift. It promoted to much toxicity in builds and offered no true counterplay. Although, they could have reworked the item to allow only the users magic damage increased. :/

Rinky DinkyJan 14, 20154 votes

Okay, so if every single champion that deserves compensation gets it, I will agree with this 100%.

Every

Single

One.

Not just Akali, Fizz, and Katarina.

MORDEKAISER AND VEIGAR ARE INCLUDED IN THIS.

As well as Annie, and Ahri.

AquariusGineJan 14, 20154 votes

I never build DFG on Syndra anymore, and she still wrecks just as hard. I honestly don't think she deserves any compensation buffs, yet.

Ahri, Veigar, Annie need some sort of compensation as DFG is a core on them.

I play Leblanc a lot and she could use a slight compensation. She still does fine with Morello+ Deathcap against some comps though. But without DFG she falls off lategame even harder.

ZirzonJan 14, 20153 votes

From the bottom of the page you linked:

Items

Deathfire Grasp No longer purchasable on Summoner's Rift

[Context from Scarizard: [1] "Confirmed. As of 5.2, Deathfire Grasp will be removed. We're working on a context post that should be out soon to explain!" and [2]" Important note: DFG's removal won't be the only change - a number of champions will receive changes/updates to compensate.]

trexmixGJan 14, 20153 votes

i dont like this at all...

the issue is that most of the annoying/unbalanced mid champs are ad, not ap...

junglerboy16Jan 14, 20153 votes

I have a feeling that along with this is going to be a lot of individual balancing for a lot of mages, because this in conjunction with the weakening of mana regen options with the preseason would make it so Riot can finally balance most of them outside of necessary items. Basically, Annies will get their burst tuned better, Luxes will get mana regen they need, so on and so forth. Riot (Hopefully) is using this preseason as an opportunity to reduce the amount of dependency that mages have on specific items to allow for better champion diversity as well as better item diversity.

Renegade Angel95Jan 14, 20153 votes

So I can no longer take this item on TF and pop people with Pick a card and stacked deck?!?!?!?!? :(

I guess I should be building a bit more defense anyways. Oh well.

I do hope we get another Needlessly large rod item tho. When you pick up that item you plan on doing a ton of damage, but do you want Armor and an insane active or do you want amplified damage for extra burst or just extra damage in general? I loved the three options you had, and I hope we get another high ap item.

Fizz is not FishJan 14, 20153 votes

The mana cost of Veigar 's ULT need to be reduced even before the patch when most champs' ULT need only 100mana.

Veigar :125,175,225

HawkefireJan 14, 20153 votes

"Deathfire Grasp has been removed from Summoner's Rift on the PBE"

And Veigar is in tears

tainteddazeJan 14, 20153 votes

if this goes through all i see with this update is. ADC's are being 1 shot by mages, we at riot games can not have any other class in the game being used cause they just happen to one shot a 1800 hp target with zero defence items and uses damage moves that have a c/d. Instead we want no champion to be able to deal with ADC and make sure they can do 2k damage on 1 AA like it is nothing cause that is so much more balanced.

ProfDrDeathJan 14, 20152 votes

https://twitter.com/RiotScarizard/status/555161106549702656

Confirmed as removed, with some mid laners getting changes to offset the impact. Interesting.

DrCyanideJan 14, 20152 votes

The real question is what champions will get compensated. Inevitably someone will get missed.

ProfDrDeathJan 14, 20154 votes

The stickied post mentions Ahri and Veigar .

Syndra can use the nerf and has alternate paths. Katarina - will possibly need a buff. Or even another rework. Annie - necessary nerf. Fizz - good nerf. Heimer - not dependant on DFG. Liss - not dependant. Diana - rework pending.

CupcakeTrapJan 14, 20155 votes

The amount of buffing Veigar would need to properly compensate him would be pretty substantial. Enough that I'm sort of concerned that Riot will take this opportunity to completely redo him into a more "modern-style" Champion. Personally, I'd be pretty dismayed by that: he's a very min-max old-style Champion with huge weaknesses and huge strengths. I'd be sad to see him made into more of a "meh" middle-of-the-road Champion.

JunkοJan 14, 20152 votes

Idk, i used to play Veigar without building DFG at him and just went for Zhonya/Rabadon depending on how i was doing in lane, this was mainly because i focused on mana reg and afk farming early so by the time i got it i didn't need it. If they give him a buff to damage it would be a buff to my old playstyle.