So why does Zoe have such insane damage on her Q?

only zhule··5 votes·2,601 views

Was looking at the tooltips and was honestly kind of disgusted. At level one rank one, she can do 75-92 damage at "point blank" (minimum time it takes her to recast Q) with zero AP; at level 18 and rank 5 of the skill, it's damage is now 440-580 again with zero AP and from "point blank". Assuming she gets max range bonus those numbers are now 104- 121 damage at level one rank one with zero AP, the number caps out at 590-730 damage again with zero AP. Let us not forget that this ability also is an AOE, so it's not like you are nuking a single target if you hit the shot, you are hitting everything in a small area (not sure what the exact number is on that AOE). Those numbers are around what i would expect from a full rotation with any other champion.

Now if we assuming that Zoe is building some AP, as one would expect from the champion, please note that the ability also has a 90-115% AP ratio. 65% from the ability itself plus 25% per trigger of her passive. Let's say Zoe has 200 AP, so that's a bonus 180-230 damage at point blank, and 245-290 at max range. So at rank 18 with just 200 AP, Zoe is doing a minimum of 620 damage with a cap of 1025 damage that hits everything in an AOE.

Quick side note, assuming a full item build like say item 3165 , item 3020 , item 3100 ,item 3135 , item 3089 , item 3151 which is 621 AP; Zoe's numbers would look something like 999 damage at point blank and 1645 at max range.

I also have this sinking feeling that sleepy trouble bubble's bonus damage is not actually capped at 60 (+40% ap ratio) to 220 (+40% ap ratio). Also can someone please tell me how the range on her Q recasts works? The tooltip says it has a 800 range and can be recast, i would assume this means that it has a max range of 1600 (cast forward then recast at max range for another 800 units), but i'll be damned if Zoe doesn't usually cast it behind her, ult forward and get like 3K range off the recast. Would also like someone to look at the 150% damage based on distance traveled, i feel like this is huge lie and that number is if you get hit at 800 range BUT the percentage is uncapped so those max range recasts are doing like 250-300% damage.

28 Comments

Ozzie Storm2 votes

why does a champ have high damage on their only damage dealing ability? gee i wonder why [zombie-brand-facepalm]

only zhule3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-31T03:52:47.929+0000)

why does a champ have high damage on their only damage dealing ability? gee i wonder why [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Let me guess you didn't read the damage numbers for zero AP Zoe . What about Sona can she get insanely high damage off her Q with no items to interact with, It's her only damage ability. By the way Zoe has 2 damage abilities (with a possible 4 if you account for W and passive).

Ozzie Storm1 votes

you're comparing the damage of a supp main champ with a mid mage, also Sonas q is undodgable. zoe the aspect of twilight, more like the aspect of skillshots who is squishy af. learn to dodge

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T21:53:51.730+0000)

you're comparing the damage of a supp main champ with a mid mage, also Sonas q is undodgable. zoe the aspect of twilight, more like the aspect of skillshots who is squishy af. learn to dodge

Yay, you are the 1000th person i have had tell me the well known fact that Sona's Q auto targets and has more range then an auto attack. And you will be the 800th person i say "WHO GIVES A SHIT". But since i get the feeling you won't drop it till i change the set up a tiny bit. Imagine for half a second that Sona's Q did not auto target but was instead a skill shot. Would you be ok with her building no AP and doing 730 magic damag (before resistance) every time she landed the spell? Would you be ok with 500? What level of damage is "fair" for the support character to be able to do every 4 seconds from 800 range? What if instead it was 1200 range? How much more damage is a mage allowed to do with the same limitation?

Half my issue isn't the damage by itself, though i hold that it is too much, it's the AOE nature of it. The fact that you can hit the wrong target and still get rewarded for it.

Ozzie Storm2 votes

i would be totally fine is Sona oneshotting me if she also didn't have self heal, movement speed and an instant stun which, allow me to remind you, zoe have none of.

"b...but her w can get you heal or movement speed or..." you may say, and to that i'd respond it's random and not sth. to rely on.

"b...but Zoe has an ult with a short cooldown aka tons of mobility" and to that i'd say it's not an excape tool but a skill based ability that can be countered and played around.

Zoe has strength and weaknesses. Look at Veigar, an ap scaling monster that would delete you with a click of a button but i don't see anyone complaining now do i . People are complaining either because they can, the can't play against Zoe or they're just jumping onboard the hate train.

It's simple really, learn to play against her or ban her.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-02T21:57:56.606+0000)

i would be totally fine is Sona oneshotting me if she also didn't have self heal, movement speed and an instant stun which, allow me to remind you, zoe have none of.

"b...but her w can get you heal or movement speed or..." you may say, and to that i'd respond it's random and not sth. to rely on.

"b...but Zoe has an ult with a short cooldown aka tons of mobility" and to that i'd say it's not an excape tool but a skill based ability that can be countered and played around.

Zoe has strength and weaknesses. Look at Veigar, an ap scaling monster that would delete you with a click of a button but i don't see anyone complaining now do i . People are complaining either because they can, the can't play against Zoe or they're just jumping onboard the hate train.

It's simple really, learn to play against her or ban her.

The stun is not instant, it's fast but it does have a travel time, meaning that if you aren't right in her face you could dodge it via mobility skill/ flash/ or hell running out of it's range if you are far enough back.

I'm not saying that Zoe doesn't have some weaknesses, i'm saying that i personally feel that a single ability that can do 730 damage with no AP is overly strong. I personally feel that it also having 147.5 to 172.5% (again i don't know if her ultimate triggers her passive) AP scaling is again maybe a problem.

Another way to put that would be simply to point out that her ability scales off level as well as AP. If a player wants to build a ton of AP and do a ton of damage that's fine. The ability itself gets +30 damage per rank, going from 40-160. If you assume the player is capable of getting the max range the majority of the time the spell really does 60-240 damage on a reasonably small cooldown. On top of that she also gets a 18-140 damage boost scaling on level. You are rewarded for building AP (as you should be), you are rewarded also for having the game drag out since that increases your chances of getting a higher level and thus more damage simply for existing.

There are so many little things that could be changed to make her feel less unfun to play against. maybe boost Q's damage per rank a little but remove the scaling per level. Maybe don't allow her Q to proc the passive, or at least only proc it once +17-140 (25% AP scaling) feels a lot less hellish to deal with then +28-280 (50% AP scaling). Make it so she can't recast Q if she is stunned/silenced/ suppressed/etc.... (how is that fair that she can still nuke me when i have her in a hard lockdown?). Make it so that sleepy bubble can only travel so far through walls (no more bubble from mid hitting top lane). Cap the range of Q; the whole Q +R +Q to fire it from 2000+ range away just makes it feel unfair to fight... Hell i will even deal with Q forward 800 range into redirect for another +800 range, at least then there is a good chance i see the freaking spell rather then it coming out of fog of war and giving me .25-.5 seconds to see and react to it while managing all the other effects on screen.

Ozzie Storm1 votes

1st off i was comparing the time said stunn procks, Sonas stunn the moment it hitts you while zoe has a pretty generous delay till yo u fall asleep, enough to escape with a flash dash or whatever.

Long stroy short the problem with champs like zoe is having alot of consistent power on a basic ability (Q) compared to other champs that get theitr powerspike with their ult that has a fair amount of CD and it's apain to balance.

But her being annoying to play against doesn't equal broken. She's squishy with no reliable escapes and has all her power within one ability. They already tuned her down with the changes to her ult, if they'd nerf her even more she'd have to get more durability and sustain as an exchange to her power.

Also her q is litterarely visible behind her and you see it from a mile away before it hits you, how can you not dodge it?

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-03T13:30:54.312+0000)

1st off i was comparing the time said stunn procks, Sonas stunn the moment it hitts you while zoe has a pretty generous delay till yo u fall asleep, enough to escape with a flash dash or whatever.

Long stroy short the problem with champs like zoe is having alot of consistent power on a basic ability (Q) compared to other champs that get theitr powerspike with their ult that has a fair amount of CD and it's apain to balance.

But her being annoying to play against doesn't equal broken. She's squishy with no reliable escapes and has all her power within one ability. They already tuned her down with the changes to her ult, if they'd nerf her even more she'd have to get more durability and sustain as an exchange to her power.

Also her q is litterarely visible behind her and you see it from a mile away before it hits you, how can you not dodge it?

People keep saying it's visable, but i don't know if i believe that. Like sure if she fires it back and there is vision of the entire path backwards, but i don't remember it being visible if fired into fog of war, or if she fires it then ults forward allowing her to see over a wall. And sadly most "proof" i can find either has the whole map lit up, thus proving nothing, or it's all done from her POV so i can't tell if the enemy had any idea what was incoming.

Ozzie Storm1 votes

I'm sorry but since when could anyone see anything from the fog of war? Now you're just being silly

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-03T21:15:51.219+0000)

I'm sorry but since when could anyone see anything from the fog of war? Now you're just being silly

And that's the issue. you have a hyper fast moving projectile appearing form basically no where, giving the opponent maybe half second to see Zoe and react before they are smashed for a large amount of damage.

Ozzie Storm1 votes

and there's why vision plays a huge role in the game and is so important, not only with zoe but anny champ in league. By your logic how is it fair to get oneshot from fog of war by anything? Your argument is flawed if you can even call it that.

Zoe in case you didn't watch her spotlight, is supposed to be an assassin type mage that is supposed to set traps an oneshot, it's what she's meant to do. you complaining abuot zoe is equally meaningless as someone complaining that zed can delete people or talon can roam.

Just like the cases with Zed and other assassinsm unles you build defense you're getting deleted without question, learn to play agaibst her instead of complainig about things and what ifs. can't see a projectile due to fog of war, ward (duh) stepping on her e? don't getting hit by e? learn to dodge it (like for real it has a cast animaion and a delayed effect, complaining about such ability is as embaresing as complaining about ekko's w being op as an aoe stunn despite the long animation) Or at least bait it out.

edit:lets make things clear. A chap with such a huge power is troublesome and it's never fun to get oneshot. While she might be unfun she's balanced gamewhise. As is said before, high damage in her q aka only one opportunity to do any kind of damage, miss it and you're weak, w is rng based and balanced (they removed gunblade spawning from minions) she's squishy and has no escapes or sustain. She's a unique character with a unique identity.

Compare her to Yasuo for instance. Both of them are balanced in Riots eyes yet are hated for being unfun to play against. The difference is one has a balanced kit and one is too overloaded. You can't do much when complainig about a champ that is good in doing said unique thing (zoe is setting traps and her q assassin style gameplay), nerfing them would result n either keeping her reliable but still feel unchanged by the players or make her useless and not even a viable pick. Yes the champion design is to blame but at this point there's nothng more they can do.

On the flip side Yasuo as an overloaded kit which makes the community cry about and say that you can just change X and remove Y (examples being the doubble passinve not being needed, ult sets him out of turrent range and gets activated by any knockup not just his, windwall...etc.) So when the community complain about him i understand the frustration of a hampion with an overloaded kit that riot does nothing about (favourism? idk tbh)

You're asking her to stop doing her job aka not one shot and set traps aka become useless, which won't happen. This will be my last reply, because unless you get it you're just being stubborn and i'm done.

only zhule2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T03:08:11.983+0000)

and there's why vision plays a huge role in the game and is so important, not only with zoe but anny champ in league. By your logic how is it fair to get oneshot from fog of war by anything? Your argument is flawed if you can even call it that.

Zoe in case you didn't watch her spotlight, is supposed to be an assassin type mage that is supposed to set traps an oneshot, it's what she's meant to do. you complaining abuot zoe is equally meaningless as someone complaining that zed can delete people or talon can roam.

Just like the cases with Zed and other assassinsm unles you build defense you're getting deleted without question, learn to play agaibst her instead of complainig about things and what ifs. can't see a projectile due to fog of war, ward (duh) stepping on her e? don't getting hit by e? learn to dodge it (like for real it has a cast animaion and a delayed effect, complaining about such ability is as embaresing as complaining about ekko's w being op as an aoe stunn despite the long animation) Or at least bait it out.

edit:lets make things clear. A chap with such a huge power is troublesome and it's never fun to get oneshot. While she might be unfun she's balanced gamewhise. As is said before, high damage in her q aka only one opportunity to do any kind of damage, miss it and you're weak, w is rng based and balanced (they removed gunblade spawning from minions) she's squishy and has no escapes or sustain. She's a unique character with a unique identity.

Compare her to Yasuo for instance. Both of them are balanced in Riots eyes yet are hated for being unfun to play against. The difference is one has a balanced kit and one is too overloaded. You can't do much when complainig about a champ that is good in doing said unique thing (zoe is setting traps and her q assassin style gameplay), nerfing them would result n either keeping her reliable but still feel unchanged by the players or make her useless and not even a viable pick. Yes the champion design is to blame but at this point there's nothng more they can do.

On the flip side Yasuo as an overloaded kit which makes the community cry about and say that you can just change X and remove Y (examples being the doubble passinve not being needed, ult sets him out of turrent range and gets activated by any knockup not just his, windwall...etc.) So when the community complain about him i understand the frustration of a hampion with an overloaded kit that riot does nothing about (favourism? idk tbh)

You're asking her to stop doing her job aka not one shot and set traps aka become useless, which won't happen. This will be my last reply, because unless you get it you're just being stubborn and i'm done.

Let's address some issues:

Yasuo is not one shotting you, he is landing a bunch of skills and auto attacks to kill you. The fact that his ult keeps him out of tower aggro is bullshit but that's a different topic. His kit is overloaded, but at least i can freaking see everything he is doing. There is no risk of him appearing from fog and me being dead a literal second later.

As you point out vision is important, but the chances you are going to have vision of the entire map is basically zero, hell the chances you are going to have vision in the 4-5 places you need to see where Zoe is casting is basically zero if you aren't curb stomping the enemy team. During the first say 10 mins, what are the chances you have vision of all the little nooks around mid? Pushed her to tower? hope you have vision her jungle so you can see where she casts Q and the direction it's recast in or can safely dodge in the 30-35 degree cone she can aim the spell in. Zoe's team doing a good job destorying wards? hope you like knowing she is somewhere in a 2000 long by 300 deep area and could pop up form anywhere in that zone and blast you to kingdom come with just her Q (hope you can guess it's direction in the half second you have between her portal in and the shot landing).

As for the cast time and all that of her E, yea that's real helpful when i'm in a different fucking lane and all of a sudden it comes flying in from almost half way across the map.

Zoe wants to 100% me with bubble into max range Q, ok i guess, she managed to out play me and deserves her high amount of burst. She wants to do it without bubble (you know a good 500-900 damage and a stun to set up that max range Q) and from a range where i can't see her till she ultimates in at which point Q is already on it's return trip? No, fuck you that's not a fair "combo", how do you play around it? I can play around some of Yasuo 's BS by not being near my creep wave. I can somewhat predict Annie 's combo if i see she has 3 charges of her passive and is walking towards me instead of last hitting minions. Hell even Zed has to be on screen for more then a second to position in such a way that his ultimate, plus a full ability rotation, can kill you.

I'm fine with a burst mage getting their set up and doing burst mage levels of damage. I'm not ok with a burst mage not having to set anything and still doing burst mage level of damage. Let's be honest her Q would be a lot less scary/unfun if it didn't also deal her passive bonus damage, or if it didn't double proc the passive. E + passive + ultimate + double Q + bonus damage from popping E early + auto (which has 2-3x passive bonus damage) = dead, is a lot more understandable then simply R + double Q (which has 2-3x passive bonus damage) = dead

Ozzie Storm1 votes

Just top prove a point and clear sth out because im getting sick of this.

Wasn't comparing the oneshot potential of Yasuo compared to zoe (although with the doubble crit passive i might as well) but rather a champs identity. Zoe is a burst mage and sets traps, thats it. Yasuo is an overloaded champ that is good in one too many things at once (sustain, damage, mobility mainly around minions but pretty unavoidable in the laningphase, engage, defense with windwall...etc.)

Also as far as i know the 1st 10 minutes are mainly early game aka. laning phase aka. you should be have all the vision you need. She's in another lane? pay attention to the minimap like in any other game. Zoe enemy jgl? Again, ward and pay attention, basic lol things you know.

Stop with the lame excuses, it's getting embarrassing for you at this point. While "git gud" souds cliche and kinda mean, a better way to put it would be learn to play against her correctly before complaining.

only zhule2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T15:03:46.195+0000)

Just top prove a point and clear sth out because im getting sick of this.

Wasn't comparing the oneshot potential of Yasuo compared to zoe (although with the doubble crit passive i might as well) but rather a champs identity. Zoe is a burst mage and sets traps, thats it. Yasuo is an overloaded champ that is good in one too many things at once (sustain, damage, mobility mainly around minions but pretty unavoidable in the laningphase, engage, defense with windwall...etc.)

Also as far as i know the 1st 10 minutes are mainly early game aka. laning phase aka. you should be have all the vision you need. She's in another lane? pay attention to the minimap like in any other game. Zoe enemy jgl? Again, ward and pay attention, basic lol things you know.

Stop with the lame excuses, it's getting embarrassing for you at this point. While "git gud" souds cliche and kinda mean, a better way to put it would be learn to play against her correctly before complaining.

So how do you like the purposed changes on PBE to Zoe? i personally love the removal of passive bonus damage effecting the AOE, and looks like they are finally fixing the issue where even if you got rid of sleep you still took extra damage.

Ozzie Storm1 votes

The removal of the passive damage is understandable, but imo they messed up the E almost completely. They ruined the whole strategic gameplay from her kit.

I'd much rather reduce the bonus damage and keep the effekt, it wasn't alwasy about the damage. It's about mindplay, making choices and taking risks, and now they ruined it by making it clensable with a simple QSS.

Things like pathblocking or freezing someone from the teamfight in order to get to their backline are no more which is sad. If these changes ship she'd be a generic burst mage with an ability as risky as Teemos shrooms if you forgot to buy wards, aka nonexistent.

Edit: but hey lets not forget that this is season 8 aka league of braindead damage and no fun strategy what so ever.

top hat1 votes

Well, this a long conversation

Tria41 votes

Portals and insanely easy to hit sleep what is also a trap if it misses. Also, her Q is AoE...... "learn to dodge" my ass.

Tria41 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozzie Storm,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-31T03:52:47.929+0000)

why does a champ have high damage on their only damage dealing ability? gee i wonder why [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Her E does damage. Also, what about Bard? He does no damage with his only damaging ability.

Samflash31 votes

It's her only guaranteed and reliable damage ability.

That said, it may need some tuning.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

It's her only guaranteed and reliable damage ability.

That said, it may need some tuning.

The damage is too high, i don't care that it's her only reliable source of it. 75-121 damage on a 7.5 second cooldown, with an AOE at level one with zero AP and zero CDR, at level 1 is WAY to high. 440-730 damage with a 6.25 second cooldown, with an AOE and zero AP and zero CDR, is way to much for a late game champion. For example i can run Brand with 3 sources of damage and even if i hit all of them that is still only 605 damage, and 8 seconds of cooldown, assuming i also didn't build AP or CDR.

Samflash31 votes

But Brand is a team killer. Zoe only melts your team one at a time. I still remember the days when getting hit by mid lane Brand's ult meant 2 of your teammates were taking serious damage.

OatheSworn1 votes

{quoted}

But Brand is a team killer. Zoe only melts your team one at a time. I still remember the days when getting hit by mid lane Brand's ult meant 2 of your teammates were taking serious damage.

There are some videos on Youtube of Zoe getting multikills because of the AOE on that Q....sure Zoe players usually pick off one person at a time but that doesn't mean she can't hit multiple. In a teamfight where everyone is grouped, hitting multiple people with the Q happens a lot more often than you think, especially if they have an ability like Orianna or Zac R which pairs pretty well with Zoe.

I hate Zoe, but she is semi-predictable in lane (unless she bubbles through a wall) so I can still beat her with Zed or Yasuo, you just may have to play a lot safer until you know her bubble is off cooldown or if you are confident you can dodge it. She is also pretty squishy so bursting her before she can react isn't out of the question. . . . J.K. League of Stopwatch is here.

Atmosphere1 votes

Perfect way to fix imo: Q: Lower the base damage but increase the scaling ratio. She has WAY less damage early on, but can still burst nuke late game. Brings her in line with other burst mages. Lower the CD so she can't throw one out every 3-4 seconds. W: Change it entirely. Idea of mine:

W - Playful Taunt Zoe squeals and sticks her tongue out at her opponent, irritating them. Slows them by 35% for 1.5 seconds. E: Remove the AOE and make the projectile slower. If you miss, you miss. Try again in a few seconds. Also remove the bonus damage, which allows her to nuke squishies as a burst mage, but not deleted tanks too.

Her ult is fine in my opinion.

If these changes were made, she would have more consistent utility with her W slow and E sleep, and she would have an actual combo. Instead of R point blank-E-Q-Q to win, her combo would be

W-E-R backwards-Q-Q. Everything would have to land to get the same extreme burst she can output right now, rather than it being something done every couple of seconds.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Perfect way to fix imo: Q: Lower the base damage but increase the scaling ratio. She has WAY less damage early on, but can still burst nuke late game. Brings her in line with other burst mages. Lower the CD so she can't throw one out every 3-4 seconds. W: Change it entirely. Idea of mine:

W - Playful Taunt Zoe squeals and sticks her tongue out at her opponent, irritating them. Slows them by 35% for 1.5 seconds. E: Remove the AOE and make the projectile slower. If you miss, you miss. Try again in a few seconds. Also remove the bonus damage, which allows her to nuke squishies as a burst mage, but not deleted tanks too.

Her ult is fine in my opinion.

If these changes were made, she would have more consistent utility with her W slow and E sleep, and she would have an actual combo. Instead of R point blank-E-Q-Q to win, her combo would be

W-E-R backwards-Q-Q. Everything would have to land to get the same extreme burst she can output right now, rather than it being something done every couple of seconds.

It's a possible way to deal with the issue. Still trying to understand her Q recast range, i just don't understand how much bonus range it gives, when does that range start being accounted for, when does the damage multiplier start kicking in, whats the ratio of travel distance to bonus percentage damage?

Malix Farwin1 votes

Honestly the changes on the PBE are going to hit her pretty hard where she may actually be under-performing so why are we still complaining about her? I would understand maybe if she hasn't been getting nerfed nearly every patch and she didnt have anymore pending nerfs but that's not the case here.

We have a case of the Community whining for nerfs and the Devs nerfing her in a responsible way but people still complaining.

Burst/damage is going down with More sparkles change you can break out of Drowsy The reset is gone from E Teleport is gone from Minion Spells

I mean do you just not want her to be viable at all or something? I think the changes on the PBE are pretty good.

only zhule2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAv2E7j7,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-09T21:54:51.967+0000)

Honestly the changes on the PBE are going to hit her pretty hard where she may actually be under-performing so why are we still complaining about her? I would understand maybe if she hasn't been getting nerfed nearly every patch and she didnt have anymore pending nerfs but that's not the case here.

We have a case of the Community whining for nerfs and the Devs nerfing her in a responsible way but people still complaining.

Burst/damage is going down with More sparkles change you can break out of Drowsy The reset is gone from E Teleport is gone from Minion Spells

I mean do you just not want her to be viable at all or something? I think the changes on the PBE are pretty good.

to be fair the post was made before i knew she was getting any real nerfs (not accounting for the 1-.25 second increase in cooldown for her Q), i think it will be interesting to see how she plays now, with less wave clear, no RNG easy lane, enemies finally being able to negate the bonus damage of E in Q with a cleanse effect.

TheTwerkinator1 votes

Honestly, the only thing I had against Zoe was her E. The range, plus that fact that it made an aoe (although single target) if it missed, felt really cheap. Other than that, I didn't have much of a problem with her Q. It was pretty difficult to land and very easily telegraphed. I also dislike her E more than her Q since it's also a CC that benefits everyone on her team and the hitbox was wider. Not to mention if you had her in sight, her Q had to be used twice giving you enough time to predict it, unlike her E.

Her W, while annoying, is RNG based. RNG is pretty obnoxious to both parties, so meh. And her ult was pretty easy to counter.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, the only thing I had against Zoe was her E. The range, plus that fact that it made an aoe (although single target) if it missed, felt really cheap. Other than that, I didn't have much of a problem with her Q. It was pretty difficult to land and very easily telegraphed. I also dislike her E more than her Q since it's also a CC that benefits everyone on her team and the hitbox was wider. Not to mention if you had her in sight, her Q had to be used twice giving you enough time to predict it, unlike her E.

Her W, while annoying, is RNG based. RNG is pretty obnoxious to both parties, so meh. And her ult was pretty easy to counter.

Well the tradeoff to her E doing that is minions block it and it breaks on damage. With the new change it is more foving than any other hard cc in the game now.

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