reksai, is strangely... balanced

SwiftKitten88·Jun 25, 2016·47 votes·4,086 views

despite the fact that she is manaless.

she CAN deal damage if she chooses to build that way.. she CAN built tanky and just be used for CC and engage.. she can go anywhere in between

she is good enough to be picked in LCS but is beginner friendly enough for an easy clear because of her passive

@Riot please consider reksai as an example of a well designed jungle champ

EDIT: YES, i mean the CURRENT rek'sai

Obviously release rek'sai had crazy absurd ratios, but the point is to fix her they didn't have to change her KIT in any way.. just tweak some numbers

79 Comments

EvewynnJun 25, 201620 votes

I'm still mad they reduced the AP ratio on her tunneled Q

RIP torpedo Rek'sai

PopppyseedJun 26, 20163 votes

why did they have to nerf it so hard and cut her AP scaling in half? Ive seen old videos of it and it didnt seem OP at all. Sure you could half health squishes if they didnt build defenses but lots of champs can do that anyways with more than one skill.

Vellich0rJun 26, 201610 votes

It was basically a huge range nidalee spear that hit in AoE. It needed to be destroyed 0.0

taleofsonataJun 26, 20162 votes

Same thing happened to AP Corki. Gutted and left in the dust to die.

Serpents EmbraceJun 27, 20163 votes

In the gutter where it belonged tbh

Only Play DariusJun 26, 20161 votes

It also cost no mana too. But I wish they at least kept it in ARAM

ArakadiaJun 26, 20161 votes

Same! She is good in URF, AP Reksai I mean.

EvewynnJun 26, 20161 votes

Eh, not so much anymore...she has pretty good laning but doesn't contribute enough in team fights. No reason to play her over urf nid.

ShadòwJun 26, 20161 votes

that could have been so funny in URF

SaltyKrackaJun 25, 201611 votes

Of course, they had to nerf her pretty hard to get her into that shape.

DaxterrJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Of course, they had to nerf her pretty hard to get her into that shape.

I remember every time I saw old Rek I would get mad about how much HP she had. Like it didn't take a rocket scientist to tell you she had way too much.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 26, 20161 votes

Not to mention she had literally 4x the damage she has now lol.

TotalJerkJun 26, 201610 votes

Tank Rek'Sai is balanced. AD and Bruiser Rek'Sai have been firmly in the shitter for a long time. Same thing with position; Jungle Rek'Sai is okay, top Rek'Sai is completely dead.

GrReaper96Jun 26, 20162 votes

Agreed. Bruiser or AD RekSai feels kinda bad right now. Sure, if they're ahead they can do great but if they fall of a little they become practically useless. AD Reksai has the yi syndrome

World EnderJun 25, 20168 votes

Rek'Sai is really weak outside of organized play...I don't know what you're smoking.

General Esdeath Jun 26, 20161 votes

I mean unless you're a rock you can see you Rek'Sai going towards enemies while burrowed and KNOW she's gonna knock someone up.

World EnderJun 26, 20163 votes

And so can the enemy team. It's extremely 50/50 whether your team or the enemy team will follow up quicker in solo play, and if the enemy responds then Rek'Sai is stuck in the middle of 5 enemies with no escape. Not to mention that fact that her tremor sense is extremely limited in solo play and low divisions where teammates are not observant and don't have communication. Add to that the fact that she only has three damaging abilites, one of which is extremely weak and the other two are basically just auto attacks...so look at all this and then tell me that Rek'Sai is strong.

ArakadiaJun 26, 20162 votes

I find her weak in uncoordinated play.

General Esdeath Jun 26, 20161 votes

In organized play the enemy team also has a 50/50, so you're saying she's weak outside team play because...? In solo you're not supposed to use tremor sense to find people and ping them, you're not a UAV. It's for people hiding or on the other side of a wall so you can tunnel over said wall. In LCS I see people notice Rek'Sai and stand still (as 3+) and then jump her from a bush, it's much safer in solo play for her. And you could say Trynd is weak since he has ONE damaging skill. One of Rek'Sai's attacks is true damage and one can find people over walls if she's burrowed. So yeah, I can look at all that and tell you Rek'Sai is strong.

World EnderJun 26, 20164 votes

You completely missed my point. Let me put it more simply: Rek'Sai has so much utility in the form of tremor sense that she has to be balanced around this factor for pro play. But for regular players, while it does have it's uses, is not nearly as impactful as it is in coordinated play.

Let's say Rek'Sai has a power budget of 100 that's balanced around the pros. Her tremor sense is 50 when being used at max potential, leaving her other abilities at 50 in total. Well, in solo play since it's extremely difficult to use tremor sense to full potential, let's say its power level is 20. Therefore as a whole she is only at 70/100 because of the discrepancy in the value of tremor sense at pro levels versus regular play. This is the problem right here; that Rek'Sai is balanced around pro play first is what causes issues.

I'm not saying Rek'Sai is a poorly designed champion; she just suffers from being designed to rely too heavily on team coordination, and that leads to the situation where she can't do as well in regular play.

NuparuJun 26, 20163 votes

you can make any champ sound weak w/ the way you explained it

rengar is extremely weak, it's a 50/50 they either react and you die a horrible death or you leap in and try and kill the adc, but they can outplay you so you can die anyways. your damaging abilities consist of an autoattack reset, some shit damage in an aoe, and a skillshot that's clunky to land. your ult has such a long cd that if you're not using it optimally then you cant do shit. he's only potent in low elos where you can get away without people seeing your indicator, and even then, you'll still have a chance to fail.

see?

MKDkillaJun 26, 20163 votes

Why are you strawmanning his argument, when he actually makes valid points? Rek'sai is almost always forced to build tank, and at one point becomes a walking AoE knock-up. The only reason she's used in competitive is because she can provide ridiculous map pressure for her teammates when played correctly and with a team. In solo Q where everyone is expected to pull their own weight, she's far down in the pecking order as a good pick.

devdev463Jun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Rek'Sai is really weak outside of organized play...I don't know what you're smoking.

How is reksai better in organized play than she is alone?

ApocalypsicJun 25, 20165 votes

However, when you go cinder hulk into titanic, Reksai gets insanely bonkers.

Sire HippingtonJun 26, 20163 votes

i honesty have to disagree. Reksai is overall rather weak, and the only thing that keeps her viable is a strong early and subtile utillity later on. She's very similar to lee, even new players can clear decently and duel or gank rather well, but past the laneingphase she drops really hard unless you are a coordinated team and know how to make good use of her tremor-sens and map-mobillity, which leads to first time players haveing a 43% winrate only on her as you need to really make most of her early(ganking and clearing **decently **is by far not enough) and ideally also know as a team how to use her more subtile strengths later on.

Her scaleing into lategame fights is out right pathetic. If you go tank, you do no damage and have little cc, so your pretty ignorable after the initial knockup, if you go for damage you are way squishy for a pure melee champ with a rather delayed damage profile and poor in-fight mobillity so she just gets blown up befor she gets anything done unless she gets the perfect flank. If you go bruiser, you still get blown up while still haveing not that great damage. Anything but tank is only useable for splitpush in higher elos.

While she might be overall balanced, she just doesn't really deliver on her fantasy(at least in higher elos), as fulltank is about the only viable way, so you turn from a furious voidbeast that tears stuff apart the first ~20 min into a mobile radar station with an occasional knockup. And mobile radar station with knock up is not what i have in mind then i look at reksai... She also has to much of her power focused on the early game, and to extreme power curves simply aren't great. A good reksai is terror to face in the early game, just like a good lee, but if you survive for the first ~20 min without allowing her to snowball, she disapears into the dessert and doesn't bother anyone anymore, leaving her team on basically a 4 vs 5.

PraetorAmalthusJun 25, 20162 votes

Release Rek, unborrow below ADC, and he dies before he Drops down

Chicken SailorJun 26, 20163 votes

Well she has been nerfed accordingly. The OP wasn't claiming release rek sai was balanced

SwiftKitten88Jun 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Sailor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAHrhufP,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-06-26T02:55:11.013+0000)

Well she has been nerfed accordingly. The OP wasn't claiming release rek sai was balanced

oh god no... release rek'sai was broken as hell, she had absolutely crazy ratios and could do a full leashless clear with no pots and end will full hp and invade or gank.

im saying rek'sai is balanced NOW, and her KIT is balanced because all she needed with "number" changes, and not ability modifications

Umbra IoniaJun 26, 20161 votes

I think all released champs were OP as hell. Maybe Bard is the exception.

Chicken SailorJun 26, 20161 votes

Release Kench was fine until they overbuffed him

KodyackJun 25, 20162 votes

you can teleport to Rek'Sai tunnels.

maybe that makes her OP, I dunno, but it's a thing semi-related to a topic I have nothing else to add to.

HaloDragonXJun 25, 20162 votes

Not really an example of balanced, has a lot of mobility, tankiness, and damage. Really just a lot of damage though.

General Esdeath Jun 26, 20167 votes

What? You gotta pick between tank and damage or go 50/50 and feel like you're neither.

HaloDragonXJun 26, 20161 votes

Or get both and be full tank

General Esdeath Jun 26, 20167 votes

How do you go full tank and full damage?

SwiftKitten88Jun 26, 20164 votes

{quoted}

How do you go full tank and full damage?

that's part of the reason why she is balanced... she CANT do full tank and deal any decent damage, and she cant go full damage and still be crazy tanky. she has to choose one. or something in between, she isnt like Volibear who can build full tank and be impossible to kill and still murder your entire team and do more damage than an adc

at least after he crazy release damage ratios were fixed to more realistic levels...

AeszarckJun 25, 20162 votes

You seem to be implying that manaless champions are overpowered (or underpowered, but I'm guessing you don't mean that) and that Rek'Sai is the only actual balanced manaless champion. Manaless doesn't imply that something is strong or weak. A champion can be weak and manaless or strong and manaless. Manaless is a strong trait, but if other stats are kept in check then the champions who are manaless can be balanced.

DaxterrJun 26, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You seem to be implying that manaless champions are overpowered (or underpowered, but I'm guessing you don't mean that) and that Rek'Sai is the only actual balanced manaless champion. Manaless doesn't imply that something is strong or weak. A champion can be weak and manaless or strong and manaless. Manaless is a strong trait, but if other stats are kept in check then the champions who are manaless can be balanced.

Renekton Akali Katarina Aatrox Rengar Shyvana Yasuo Zed Mordekaiser LeeSin are all kind of notorious for balance problems. I think that leaves only RekSai and Zac for non problem champions.

SasogwaJun 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

are all kind of notorious for balance problems. I think that leaves only and for non problem champions.

DrMundo Garen Gnar Kennen Riven Rumble Shen Vladimir are also non-mana users

SociopathFriendJun 26, 20163 votes

To be fair- Mundo in particular varies between unkillable-god-hp-tank or useless. Likewise Riven used to be bitched about every day on the boards. Vlad too. Rumble and Kennen have the same 'flaw'. They're good when they're good but when they're bad they're really bad.

DaxterrJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

are also non-mana users

Ok I seem to have forgotten quite a few lol. Those champs that you listed are a lot better, except for vlad and rivenroth. I hate rivenroth so much.

TotalJerkJun 26, 20163 votes

Most of those champions' balance problems had nothing to do with not using mana.

BakedLotionJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

are all kind of notorious for balance problems. I think that leaves only and for non problem champions.

Zac isn't exactly resourceless

AeszarckJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Zac isn't exactly resourceless

Manaless, not resourceless. Renekton uses Fury, Akali Energy, Aatrox Blood Well, Rengar Ferocity, Shyvana Fury, Yasuo Flow, Zed Energy, Mordekaiser Shield, Lee Sin Energy, and Rek'Sai Fury. Those are all secondary "resources", even if some (such as Flow or Shield) aren't used in casting abilities.

hotarseJun 26, 20161 votes

reksai is an impossible to balance abomination. too much mobility means a kit that's boring as hell. that line ball she shoots out, whatever it is? what does it do besides tickle the HP bars of the people it hits? seems like a useless ability like lucians starbust thingy and grave's gas grenade thingy. not too many melees have useless abilities like this because their kit has too much power elsewhere. not to mention, damn boring as hell to watch. hey im reksai, watch me flash unburrow. that's a cool combo right? then ima auto attack u as much as I can while i rely on my base stats to stay alive in the front line for ages.

WyrmbladeJun 26, 20162 votes

Her Q can be used to CS safely in top, scout out jungle camps, is surprisingly decent poke compared to her regeneration, near instant AOE damage that can help her clear and pick off extremely low health enemies, it gives her something to do while burrowed.

In a fight she has about the same mobility as Xin Zhao unless she planned well and set tunnels up. When people talk about how mobile she is, they mean map-mobility.

Saying Graves gas grenade is just silly, especially when you could have used Ezreal's W instead.

The real reason Rek'sai was a competitive staple is that she's a moving pink ward with decent ganks. Shes boring to watch, but fun to play due to how fluid she feels.

ArakadiaJun 26, 20161 votes

What do you mean moving pink Ward? Because she can see enemies who are stealthed?

WyrmbladeJun 26, 20161 votes

She can see where everybody is in a huge radius without needing vision. In competitive this information is absolutely massive. Unfortunately though it leads to boring games because Rek'sai's team can never be ambushed.

Elisza KitsuneJun 26, 20161 votes

Just adding onto this; Rek'sai can't see enemies who are standing completely still and are quite far away. (Like you said Arakadia she NEEDS Q to see enemies for ganks since she has little vision of them close up). So theoretically; YES her team can be ambushed if the enemy team stands in an unwarded bush WITHOUT anyone moving.

ArakadiaJun 26, 20167 votes

Don't complain about Reksai when you literally have no clue how the hell her kit works. That "line-ball" thing is her burrowed Q. It is not her damage spell. It is a utility spell. It reveals enemies which is so damn important because when your burrowed you have only 160ish units of vision and Q lets you see them.