Yet at lvl 1 on a 600 hp champion it gives you roughly a 70 hp shield, while thunderlords does around 10 damage at that stage...
Why is this mastery stronger than TLD at all stages of the game, even at 1v1s?
RocketRelm11 votesThunderlords at lvl 1 is weak sauce.
Thunderlords at about the level 4-5 hard poke and level 6 all-in is where it's rough.
RexSaur3 votesThunderlords at lvl 1 is weak sauce.
Thunderlords at about the level 4-5 hard poke and level 6 all-in is where it's rough.
TLD at lvl 6 does about 65 damage, while colossus will shield for around 160 hp.
It doesnt ever get better, and thats the WORST case secnario for CoC, i think this just shows how this mastery never should have went live.
RocketRelm7 votesMy original point was that Lvl 1 Thunderlords = Nothing, where Lvl 6 Thunderlords = Something. CoC is slightly overtuned at the moment, but only slightly.
If you really wanted to nerf its 'duel' potential, then one could change it to "Base+9% Max HP per champion within the radius after the first". Which is about the same at 4-5 Champions, but is significantly less at 1-2 champions.
Battlecast Sona3 voteswhy are TLD and CotC being compared anyway?
CotC is an anti-burst mechanic and TLD is a burst mechanic. CotC is designed, patently, to counter things like TLD. Why shouldn't it be as strong/better than the mechanic it's meant to counter?
Sylvant10 votesi knew this mastery is too op the moment i read its description, idk how anyone in his mind would allow such thing to be introduced in the game in its current state.
LegendaryLemur6 votesI can only assume they knowingly introduced it as overpowered so that it would be picked more often and they could gather more data on it during the preseason, to see which cases were most troublesome.
Battlecast Sona1 votesit's only been a year since TLD release...
Are people still thinking balance happens on the PBE?
Dominick Destine7 votesTLD shorter CD that scales with level. TLD effectively usable by all champions. TLD AoE damage. TLD provides magic damage which makes it harder to itemize against if used by primarily AD.
Shields do not heal, they can be waited out or wasted entirely. CotC heavily conditional (Hard disable).
Do you not understand? this really is not that complicated.
rtbf761092711 votesIt doesn't matter if anyone can proc thunderlords. What matters is how strong it is when a champion who actually uses a mastery procs it. Less champions can use CoC, sure. But it's too strong when they do.
Oglaf6 votesYet at lvl 1 on a 600 hp champion it gives you roughly a 70 hp shield, while thunderlords does around 10 damage at that stage...
Why is this mastery stronger than TLD at all stages of the game?
CoTC has half a minute cooldown, and the prerequisite to land a hard CC, I guess.
Face The Lewd10 votesTLD has a very similar CD "Landing hard CC" is something that varies in difficulty by the champion using it, just like proccing TLD on certain champions is far easier than others
Oglaf7 votes[{quoted}](name=Face The Lewd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9Ofj9Vt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T14:47:29.188+0000)
TLD has a very similar CD "Landing hard CC" is something that varies in difficulty by the champion using it, just like proccing TLD on certain champions is far easier than others
I don't really disagree with you, but landing TLD is far easier. Especially on a ranged Champ.
I think the obvious solution would be to decrease the base values of CoTC and shift those numbers into it's scaling; that way it is weaker in a 1v1 but remains as potent if you manage to land that end-game 5-man bounce with 
.
Penns6 votes
press W or 
press E, there you go, 100 shield in lane.
balanced hehe xd
50000000000000003 votesOn Maokai, you can also Q the enemy when close (like when they are trying to engage on you) to knock them away.
Face The Lewd12 votes{quoted} >if you manage to land that end-game 5-man bounce with
...you do realize that it scales with how many enemies are nearby, not how many you hit with your CC. Right?
Oglaf10 votes[{quoted}](name=Face The Lewd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9Ofj9Vt,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-20T15:10:09.939+0000)
...you do realize that it scales with how many enemies are nearby, not how many you hit with your CC. Right?
Obviously.
As I was saying: reduce the base Shield and shift those numbers into the scaling.
That way it is not so powerful in a 1v1 situation but it still remains impactful in end-game teamfights.
FantasySniper1 votesExcept that difference between "certain champions" is glaringly different in impact.
Either the hard CC is melee range (thus easy to land), or Colossus simply won't benefit that particular champion as much.
TLD on the other hand... All you need to do is land three autos. Any spell-weaving will only make the process faster.
Oglaf4 votesTLD eventually gets like 10 or 15 seconds cooldown though doesn't it?
LegendaryLemur1 votesYes the CD decreases linearly with level from 25 to 15 seconds
Liofa3 votesRioters have no idea how to trade so they keep releasing keystones that do the trading for you. Don't know the limits of your champions damage? Don't worry about it we'll give you thunderlords so you know how many hits you need to land, we'll give you fervor so you can roll your face and keep doing more and more damage so you'll never fall off in a duel, we'll give you cotc so you don't even have to worry about taking damage back.
WoonStruck2 votesSeriously I wish it were just things like Windspeaker's, Bond of Stone, Stormraider's Surge, Deathfire, Grasp, etc.
The rest are super overloaded in comparison, and all in favor of damage outside of CoC.
The Sword Saint2 votes30 second cooldown that relies on a hard cc and must be timed to absorb damage is why.
RexSaur2 votes30 second cooldown that relies on a hard cc and must be timed to absorb damage is why.
Tld has a 25s CD, and a maokai pressing W or naut AAing is actually far easier than getting 3 AAs/spells off in a 3s period of time.
Battlecast Sona1 votesTLD CD goes down to 15 seconds. CotC does not. (the TLD CD decreases as you level)
SociopathFriend1 votesSimpler, yes. Easier? Debatable.
Imagine Maokai trying to just walk into range for his W- the enemy just kites backwards.
xelaker2 votesYet at lvl 1 on a 600 hp champion it gives you roughly a 70 hp shield, while thunderlords does around 10 damage at that stage...
Why is this mastery stronger than TLD at all stages of the game, even at 1v1s?
maybe because it requires hard cc, where something like thunderlords can be proq'd by soraka bananas...
rtbf761092711 votesMany champions proc CoC as easily as others proc thunderlords. I don't think it's fair to imply that thunderlords is easier to proc. It just depends on who you are playing.
Many champions can proc it with large aoe abilities 
or a point and click ability 
and are going to proc it 100% of the time they fight with it off cooldown (unless a flash away maybe)
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesRocketRelm2 votesNot sure if trolling, or -Enter Fry Jpg Here-.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesYou would be sure if you'd stop memeing and start using math and logic like a big boy
Battlecast Sona1 votesfor someone who I only ever see on the boards with at least -1 and shilling stupid ideas, you're one to talk.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesI am one to talk. It doesn't matter what I do or what you think I do.
He says he isn't sure of something. I told him how he can be sure. I'm not discussing something terribly vague. And he's indirectly calling me stupid for suggesting something he hasn't even had the balls to contest properly. So I told him exactly what he can do.
There's no hypocrisy in that.
Battlecast Sona1 votesYou would be sure if you'd stop memeing and start using math and logic like a big boy
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesDid I say I was unsure of anything?
ProfDrDeath4 votesHe spamming that stupid idea for a few days now. Downvote and move on.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesI only posted it in the that one thread whining about CoC. I'm not sure what crawled up your ass but I do believe I've been polite about this.
WoonStruck1 votes30 second CD vs 15 second CD.
RexSaur3 votes30 second CD vs 15 second CD.
Its only 15 second CD late game, and late game TLD does about 200 damage while CoC can shield up to over 2k health in a team fight, which is around 10 times stronger than tld.
WoonStruck2 votesIs there a reason your goal is to burst tanks?
Pale Pirate1 votesYeah, I kind of find it weird too. I was playing Leblanc and this Ryze was real annoying with his courage of colossus. I think its main drawbacks are that it requires synergy with resistances for the shield to have max effectiveness, and that it has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Frius1 votesbuff thunderlord?? kappayo
KoKoboto1 votesTheir two different masteries, they can't be stronger than one another. I would much rather have TLD on my mages/assassins than CotC...
doiminat0r36001 votesBecause preseason.
The same reason why 
heals for a assload (130 + 20 per level) of HP.
The same reason that 
is extremely strong despite being hardly bought.
The same reason why Twitch, one of the most underwhelming early game ADCs, is extremely strong in lane because of the meta shifting in his favor more than ever.
Billy VoHagen1 votesIt's hard to compare the two. CoC is supposed to be used to make tanks stronger. TLD is supposed to be used on squishies, so the damage from it means more against them.
WhiskerWow1 votesAlthough CoC is overpowered atm, CoC is a shield and wears off eventually. TLD is guaranteed damage once it happens and can only be undone by healing.
rtbf761092711 votes...unless it didn't break the opponents shield. Then they don't need much healing
FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votesMaybe 'cause CoC can't be used by every champion in the game, thank goodness. Imagine if Graves could activate CoC in a teamfight.
Meanwhile to make good use of TLD all you need to do is focus a champion that didn't take CoC, and I don't think CoC can be used by every champion in the game.
Not to mention the shield lasts 4 seconds. Damage lasts a bit longer than 4 seconds.
/sarcasticrant