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Why can Jayce have a better [1 out of 2] active R resistance stats than Wukong's passive?

Wukong Airlines··44 votes·3,998 views

Jayce is a "uniquely" designed champ, sure, but he's overloaded af! This dude has everything you need in his kit 2 kits, MS steroid, ranged and melee modes [melee makes him a bit tankier], Slow, knockback, both Magic and physical damage on a high scaling, Damage amplifier, AS steroid, %HP damage, Armor and MR % shred.

One of his R actives "going to Melee mode" allows him to gain more MR and armor instantly! not only that, but he gains extra damage on his next AA. Why is he rewarded with both durability and damage when he goes Melee? I dont get it, he outranges you ok ok thats fine, but when you try to duel him in what is supposed to be his [weakness] melee mode, he still destroys you with both more AD scaling damage, %HP damage and more resistance.

Transform Mercury Cannon CANNON STANCE - ACTIVE: Jayce transforms the Transform Mercury Cannon Mercury Cannon into the Mercury Hammer, gaining new abilities, becoming Melee role melee, gaining 5 / 15 / 25 / 35 bonus armor and bonus magic resistance, and causing his next basic attack to deal 25 / 65 / 105 / 145 (+ 25% bonus AD) bonus magic damage.

Jayce begins the game with Transform but cannot increase its rank. Instead, his basic abilities each have 6 ranks.

He gets that amount just by pressing R, meanwhile MonkeyKing gets t level 16 8 [MR + armor] x 5 [each NEARBY champion] and those stats are lost when they die.

Feels good to win the game just by choosing the right champion these days.

151 Comments

Eedat26 votes

Short answer: power budget

Yeah Wukong is trash early but it's balanced out by his level 6 all-in where he beats a majority of champs that bully him early with the exception of tanks and a few fighters and juggies (alright this is a lot of the current top lane meta but let's be real, you can't blind pick Wukong). A lot of early bullies like Teemo, Panth, Jayce, etc you beat by playing super scared early until you farm a dirk and all-in at level 6

Kingdom Corn3 votes

{quoted}

Short answer: power budget

Yeah Wukong is trash early but it's balanced out by his level 6 all-in where he beats a majority of champs that bully him early with the exception of tanks and a few fighters and juggies (alright this is a lot of the current top lane meta but let's be real, you can't blind pick Wukong). A lot of early bullies like Teemo, Panth, Jayce, etc you beat by playing super scared early until you farm a dirk and all-in at level 6

Wukong is trash early? what fucking world are you living in? I am a Wukong main and I can tell you top lane he is one of the strongest you can even compete against pantheon as wukong (of course not ornn though). Also, teemo gets shit on by wu. I never lost lane to a Teemo because of how bad he is against wukong.

Eedat5 votes

I mean I've mained Wu for 5 years now. Wu is dog shit early. The only time you win trades early (outside some specific matchups) is if the enemy doesn't know how to play against Wu and let's Wu cheese them. To be fair this happens quite a bit because of Wu's low playrate, but that doesn't change the fact that if played correctly, Wu loses trades. Teemo especially. If it's a bad Teemo he'll lose very hard very quickly. Any decent Teemo is going to either save his blind for when you dash and ruin your whole combo or just simply follow you through your stealth and get 3-4 autos on you on the way out. So you kind of have to judge your lane opponent.

That's what most people don't get about playing against Wu. They get scared after he drops his E>AA>Q combo and pops W and run back. What you should be doing is following him through the stealth and returning the trade now that he's blown his load. Also worth noting that Wu has absolutely no sustain so an even trade is actually a winning trade for the majority of top laners.

1eone12 votes

i think youre just a bad wu then im sorry for your time wasted and you still dont know how to play him.

Eedat3 votes

Guy who doesnt play Wukong at all attempts to tell me he knows more about Wukong. Go on.

1eone11 votes

you really believe you play wu correctly ? you are on of the worth type of players

Eedat1 votes

you are on of the worth type of players

Maybe, but at least I'm not THAT bad.

You really believe you know how to play Wukong when you have played him literally never?

1eone11 votes

if there was some one who stayed in gold for several seasons and only played one champ i think it would be safe, very safe to say they have no idea wtf they are doing when they lock him in. let me sum it up you go flash tp or ignite and you spam you q auto then walk away and repeat it they get low ignite early for the most damage and then use the clone to block their incoming cc example jax bait out his e with dash and then clone away since his e has a long cool down just all in him in the next set of spells. if you cant kill your laner roam mid since almost all mids have some form of cc and get a kill or flash, you dont lose enough to make this not worth it and if you have boots with a derk and youll probably lose about 4 minions. the rest is just general game knowledge hope this helps you get out of gold. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Eedat1 votes

"I'm going to ramble on some complete bullshit about Wukong like people are going to let you walk up and Q them or bait out Jax's stun even though Wukong's W doesn't actually move him so you just got stunned in stealth but trust me even though its so blatantly obvious that I have absolutely zero clue what the fuck I'm talking about you should take my advice"

Continue.

statelesskiller2 votes

i can imagine him being especially good right now with lethal impact

Eedat2 votes

Wukong is trash early? what fucking world are you living in?

The real world.

Kingdom Corn2 votes

{quoted}

The real world.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=kingdom+corn I know our champion way more than you and my winrate can prove that. 19% winrate difference between u and me pal.

Eedat2 votes

Don't think so buddy. My winrate is bad because I dick around in Flex with IRL friends who are straight up bronze. Even with that my KDA is still somehow better than yours kek. Try again

Kingdom Corn2 votes

{quoted}

Don't think so buddy. My winrate is bad because I dick around in Flex with IRL friends who are straight up bronze. Even with that my KDA is still somehow better than yours kek. Try again

Winrate>KDA. Knowing how to close the game with a champion and win is way harder than ksing :)

Eedat2 votes

Yeah winrate > kda which is why my soloq winrate us higher than yours. Nice job climbing out of bronze flex xD matbe next year you can climb out of bronze 3s bwahahaha

But hey, you're gonna try to tell me a good winrate in literally bronze means you know the champ better, aren't you? hahahahaha

Kingdom Corn2 votes

literally bronze

https://i.gyazo.com/4a6c8acfacdf2b4384a21335f8476294.png https://i.gyazo.com/0bd741048435fc9ac8fe1122419f6d79.png Cool man

Eedat2 votes

Nice job climbing out of bronze flex xD maybe next year you can climb out of bronze 3s

I mean you're typing so you're not illiterate right?

Kingdom Corn2 votes

{quoted}

I mean you're typing so you're not illiterate right? SoloQ is the only rank that matters. Flex 5s is where all the boosters and smurfs are, and 3v3 is a whole different game than fucking summoner's rift. I thought since you are gold you would realize how pointless the other queues are.

Eedat2 votes

SoloQ is the only one that matters? Well, my winrate is higher in SoloQ than yours which was your whole point to begin with ;)

Nice job trying to pad your stats in legit bronze in other queues only to throw yourself under the bus later xD

xxxDogmanxxx6 votes

{quoted}

Short answer: power budget

Yeah Wukong is trash early but it's balanced out by his level 6 all-in where he beats a majority of champs that bully him early with the exception of tanks and a few fighters and juggies (alright this is a lot of the current top lane meta but let's be real, you can't blind pick Wukong). A lot of early bullies like Teemo, Panth, Jayce, etc you beat by playing super scared early until you farm a dirk and all-in at level 6.

FTFY

BobaFlautist20 votes

Because Jayce has "ranged champion" base stats, so he's encouraged to go into melee by being given better resistances.

That's like asking why Kayle gets more range from her E than Twitch does from his R.

kargish10 votes

This is the actual answer here, Jayce has the base stats of a ranged champion, so in order for him to become melee worthy, he gains the resistances a normal melee champion. Keep in mind this champion is almost as old as MonkeyKing, and both of them have some pretty outdated passives. If Jayce were to be made today/reworked, he'd probably have a more meaningful difference between melee and ranged.

The way I see Jayce right now is to stay ranged unless you can all in or need to defend yourself against someone who can close the gap, it doesn't really do anything but allow him a higher burst at the risk of getting killed.

RankOneUganda2 votes

{quoted}

Because Jayce has "ranged champion" base stats, so he's encouraged to go into melee by being given better resistances.

That's like asking why Kayle gets more range from her E than Twitch does from his R.

Jayce has more base health and and armor than most melee champions.

what crack are you on wtf?. do you look shit up before you comment.

Salson12 votes

This is kind of disappointing. I came here expecting some cool Wukong update idea and got a Jayce rant.

Short story: Jayce is fine, Wu needs an update.

AirKingNeo6 votes

Jayce isn't fine. He definitely has needed a nerf for about 2 years now and Live Design makes no effort to fix it.

salty testi6 votes

[deleted]

General Esdeath 9 votes

Oh boy another champ who revolves around his enemy having to not play the game. Why does that sound familiar? Pantheon

junglerboy163 votes

There's a difference between playing safe and smart and not being allowed in the lane.

One is just a palystyle (if you play Nasus you'd know what this usually feels like). The other is a state of champion balance that is broken, e.g. how you had to play old Poppy since she could barely last hit with AAs and had no threat to anyone until well after level 6, let alone any survivability.

Jayce is a lane bully and falls off late game if you just stay close to even and don't feed. What that means is you can't just numbskull trade at him all day for free like when you're facing a maokai, unless you're an even stronger bully. His abilities are telegraphed if you play with any awareness beyond the minion in front of you, and he starts to miss out on power spikes as you hit yours (he doesn't get a major boost at level 6 for instance, unlike 90% of the roster).

General Esdeath 4 votes

Yeah there's no way a guy who mained top for 3 seasons would know ANYTHING about top lane play styles.

Jayce does not fall off late game, he stacks LETHALITY, the thing that scales up. HE can trade with you as he wants. Staying back? Get poked. Trying to engage on him/cs? Hammer Q E. His ult doesn't have the ability to level, at 6 he gets to put another point into his Q (All of his skills can reach rank 6 btw).

Daunt3 votes

Being gold for 3 seasons also says a lot. He does fall of since lethality falls off as the game goes on. I'm not sure how you got to the conclusion that lethality scales. Instead of complaining why don't you try to get better at the game and learn how to play against him? Endless educational streams that teach the macro of top lane and certain matchups yet people would rather complain about champions that exploit the opponents lack of knowledge.

General Esdeath 3 votes

Boy I hit g5 and I call it a day and play normals with friends. Tried for plat this season but only got gold 2 :^(

If you gotta pick on me for rank, it says a lot about your knowledge of the champ.

Daunt3 votes

The fact that you can't climb or don't care enough about it says a lot about your knowledge about the game. You stagnated when you reached g2 and fell back to g5. You don't have enough game knowledge to actually provide balance changes. I'm not saying that you can't have an opinion, but you guys are so entitled for the elo you are and refuse to take a look at the bigger picture.

General Esdeath 4 votes

Not that I don't care to climb, I just want to play with my friends before we grew up, which happened, and now we rarely play. I'm back at g5 because me and my friend are screwing around in ranked as a duo trying new things out with the new runes.

Are you assuming none of us watch high elo streams? And notice certain champs being played EVERY game or being banned EVERY game or being talked about as too strong or overloaded? Why do diamond players get on this high horse of "A-HUH THESE LOW ELO PLAYERS WOULD NEVER KNOW"

Bruh we all watching the same high elo streamers, seeing the same scalings/base numbers on websites, seeing the winrates on various websites, the videos, the replays, the LCS games. You REALLY don't have to be Challenger level to see there's a problem with Jayce. Same way I don't have to be Gordon Ramsay to know under cooked chicken is bad.

Camnopg2 votes

I main Jayce mid and snowball into lane (look at my match history) with the Exception of Zed ... He and Jayce are about Even

AirKingNeo5 votes

High winrate, high playrate, meta that doesn't favor him, every high elo top literally plays him or never wants to face him. Also Jayce beats out tanks with PtA + his 3 autos (2.5 AS) effect.

Yeah the boards really have hit peak in their ability to have no clue how the game works.

GayFluffyUnicorn5 votes

Here we go again, players who never faced a good jayce. I can only encourage you to add every single high elo toplaner from D2-challenger and tell them how fuckin noob they are. Every single challenger has jayce in his top champion list. BEcause jayce is such a noob stomper right?

Oh wow, another "have you tried to pick ornn". Can people atleast play the game once before they come on boards? It's hard for me to take comments like that serious.

Wukong Airlines4 votes

There's no reason to make those anymore as I tried before and failed due to most board members stating that MonkeyKing is "fine".

Salson2 votes

Boards: 'I don't mind facing Wu, therefore he is fine'.

Yeah, it's a weird place.

Blåbæret3 votes

Jayce needs nerfs.

ModAcademy Kayn6 votes

Because one is constant, while the other is only active half the time. Meanwhile, Wukong is more likely to build Health and resistance items than Jayce.

Remlap12237 votes

BS. The most popular Wukong build is lethality and AD, with the only health coming from Black Cleaver. Wukong's passive is simply extremely outdated, and the fact that Jayce can beat it by simply clicking a button when Wukong has to facecheck 5 champions is dumb AF.

I'm not saying he needs a buff on his passive, I think giving him a new passive is a much better idea. The one I pitched that got decent traction was giving him Armor and MR equal to his bonus AD if he attacks a champion that hadn't damaged him.

ModAcademy Kayn7 votes

Talking about initial design, my statement still stands. Wukong is, and was designed, as a Diver who normally builds tankier after a damage item or two. Lethality Build is only because his kit currently has problems that need fixing.

What his current build is doesn't matter, when we're talking about why they have something in their kit. Their kit came well before Lethality.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

Talking about initial design, my statement still stands.

no, ur initial point was :

Because one is constant, while the other is only active half the time.

wukong passive isn't even really constant, we are closer of partial passive. Cause it recquier to be against a whole team to fully trigger it, its useless in 1v1 situation unlike jayce's one

AirKingNeo3 votes

That doesn't make sense. Why should Jayce, a full damage champion, have an innate defense modifier? He's not a tank.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Because he has Ranged Stats. There would be no incentive for Jayce to actually go into melee form to fight, outside of a finishing blow, if he is simply a Ranged character in Melee range.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

dafuq are u talking about ??? Jayce already play most of his lane in ranged mod top and mid. just passing in melee form to disengage

Blue Moon Wolf5 votes

It comes down to the simple fact that MonkeyKing has not been touched in about 4 years now aside from global changes to all champs here and there. Jayce has been re adjusted a few times over that time, letting Riot adjust him in a way that takes into account the power creep that has been increasing every season. Meanwhile MonkeyKing has been perpetually put in a state of "He's fine and doesn't need help" by Riot, making his passive age further and further to the point it's become less effective. In short, his passive is like an egg thats been kept in the fridge too long. It had a pretty decent shelf life, but its starting to leave a bad smell >_>

It stands to reason that when Wukong FINALLY gets updated, he will likely have a more interesting passive that will take into account the current game balance and hopefully try to rework his passive into something that will be more effective in the current game then his current one. The ball is just in Riots court on WHEN we will see that update happen at this point.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloud Walker,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O8TE5Wer,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-25T22:33:08.567+0000)

Feels good to win the game just by choosing the right champion these days.

How is Jayce the 'right champion' in comparison to Wu? Two completely different champs, and Wu has more utility in his W alone than Jayce's entire 'two kits'. Not to mention he has a two-button pentakill maneuver, and a higher WR--in spite of being boned by the flat-ArPen changes--for the entirety of the new preseason.

I hate Jayce as much as the next guy, but if they buffed Wu's ambient defence to that of Jayce's he'd be the most oppressive diver in the game.

Durzaka4 votes

Not that I disagree with you, but Jayce has a higher win rate and almost 4 times the playrate of Wukong.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Where are you getting your WR stats? I checked op.gg and it has Wu listed well above Jayce!! u____u

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