Are you serious on Gangplank?

Ahristocats·Dec 18, 2015·26 votes·2,174 views

you revert all his barrels nerfs and hit his passive? Every gangplanks stay behind and only use barrels, let's give them an other reason to stay back and never attack in melee-riot game.

47 Comments

MunchCrunchLunchDec 18, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-18T07:40:26.783+0000)

you revert all his barrels nerfs and hit his passive? Every gangplanks stay behind and only use barrels, let's give them an other reason to stay back and never attack in melee-riot game.

well hes not melee focused so why would he? i mean gnar and teemo get away with it in top lane.

AhristocatsDec 18, 20156 votes

{quoted}

well hes not melee focused so why would he? i mean gnar and teemo get away with it in top lane.

i know that gangplank is like a ranged champion, but i don't understand riot because his passive is here to promot interaction/high risk high reward because he should go in melee range, and riot nerf it instead of the barrel

HayRossDec 18, 20151 votes

I think Gangplank should get maybe a BIT of incentive to go in with his sword, but I like his melee/ranged hybrid identity, and I want to keep him that way

UnpaladinDec 18, 20153 votes

Riot went from changing overall performance (penetration w/barrels) to slightly changing his earlygame performance (flat damage reduction)... To changing his mid-to-lategame performance with this ratio nerf. These are some whacky tentative changes; I would've imagined Riot could pinpoint the problem and go right at it from the start. I guess Riot created a fictional character so dastardly he has bamboozled their regular balancing approach.

ParoeDec 18, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nova Force,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-18T08:21:33.882+0000)

Riot went from changing overall performance (penetration w/barrels) to slightly changing his earlygame performance (flat damage reduction)... To changing his mid-to-lategame performance with this ratio nerf. These are some whacky tentative changes; I would've imagined Riot could pinpoint the problem and go right at it from the start. I guess Riot created a fictional character so dastardly he has bamboozled their regular balancing approach.

More like riot reworked someone and put to much into a bunch of abilities.
Old GP was better than live GP by a longshot... and not even a problem because of how the meta had changed.

UnpaladinDec 18, 20154 votes

Old GP was glorious. You know what's up.

ParoeDec 18, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nova Force,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-18T09:12:41.082+0000)

Old GP was glorious. You know what's up.

Yes, yes he was. If riot were smart they would revert the GP rework, give him BACK his old Q, and make the barrels indestructable but have them blow up after a delay, dealing total AD.

I wish they hadnt gotten rid of his old passive. grog soaked blade was AMAZING and gave GP something he really needed - and still needs quite a bit. He has "blow your load" syndrome where he drops good (well, decent now) burst damage but then has 0 follow up. He has no kill secure. And it makes him extremely unsatisfying to play if you didnt know better.

GP is now an Immobile AD caster, at best. at his worst hes just a shitty ball of thats with an AoE slow that deals minimal damage.

VaporeonKunDec 18, 201511 votes

Old Gangplank had nothing meaningful to him. He was not a fun champ to deal with and had very little to offer in terms of what he can provide for a team. That old E was in no way meaningful or useful.

The passive didn't actually provide anything besides early game aggression and it didn't do anything mid game to late game.

The new GP has a lot more to give when it comes to teamfighting and isn't a one trick pony. The barrels provide aoe damage and his ultimate gives him more options for helping his team.

ParoeDec 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Old Gangplank had nothing meaningful to him. He was not a fun champ to deal with and had very little to offer in terms of what he can provide for a team. That old E was in no way meaningful or useful.

The passive didn't actually provide anything besides early game aggression and it didn't do anything mid game to late game.

The new GP has a lot more to give when it comes to teamfighting and isn't a one trick pony. The barrels provide aoe damage and his ultimate gives him more options for helping his team.

New GP has nothing meaningful about him either. Hes a wannabe AD caster who relies entirely on barrels for damage. Its a mechanic, but its not fun unless you like to play whackabarrel.

Old GPs E was something that needed to go - im not debating that; it was the changes to his Q (iirc it no longer procs certain on-hits) and the removal of a VERY important 21% slow that makes new GP some wannabe AD caster. Hes got burst, sure, but no follow up to that burst. If you hit someone with your barrels and your E, if theyre not dead/low enough to ult, you will NOT be able to chase them because you just dont have the speed necessary and you have 0 soft CC outside your ultimate to secure those kills.

The new passive is pretty, but the old passive was so, so much better for an Immobile AD caster because it allowed GP to damage enemies, then make sure he could kill them. Its stupidly frustrating to blow enemies up and be unable to catch them afterwards because you just dont have the tools for it. You know what would have been a really cool thing? Having the current E and making it so when you AA'd your barrels, it lit your grog soaked blade on fire making it deal a scaling amount of true damage on the first AA. It would have made GP so much more fun if they had done that instead of this weird "i cant catch anyone i chunk" thing that hes got going on.

As i said earlier, id like to see the old passive restored and the barrels changed into delayed damage of some kind. the whackabarrel minigame isnt fun and isnt "meaningful".

VaporeonKunDec 18, 20155 votes

I had this whole line of text to present and debate you on it but I got rattled in doing it that decided to delete all of it because I couldn't figure where you're even coming from.

Old passive sucked because the 21% slow is a joke and that magic damage is barely noticeable. The new passive does true damage and on physically attacking the target you gain a movement speed boost. the E also resets your passive, so you can use it in conjunction by procing it once and then using your q on a barrel for another proc which the barrel proc also gives you movement speed and slow targets.

The W has missing health. The ultimate does overall more damage and has ways of upgrading it to fit the teams needs. The Q is more functionally sound and provides a much more clearer purpose besides just mindless gold farming. You want to actively farm with it and use it in combination with your barrels in waves to gain serpents to make your ultimate have improved abilities.

The only note worthy thing on old GP were numbers, and those don't mean anything if they don't have a better purpose.

ParoeDec 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I had this whole line of text to present and debate you on it but I got rattled in doing it that decided to delete all of it because I couldn't figure where you're even coming from.

Old passive sucked because the 21% slow is a joke and that magic damage is barely noticeable. The new passive does true damage and on physically attacking the target you gain a movement speed boost. the E also resets your passive, so you can use it in conjunction by procing it once and then using your q on a barrel for another proc which the barrel proc also gives you movement speed and slow targets.

The W has missing health. The ultimate does overall more damage and has ways of upgrading it to fit the teams needs. The Q is more functionally sound and provides a much more clearer purpose besides just mindless gold farming. You want to actively farm with it and use it in combination with your barrels in waves to gain serpents to make your ultimate have improved abilities.

The only note worthy thing on old GP were numbers, and those don't mean anything if they don't have a better purpose.

A slow is much more powerful than a speed boost when youre already hitting soft caps in movement speed.
The magic damage might not have been noticable to you, who clearly didnt play old GP much, but it was stacking damage that did a great deal over time and helped secure those pesky kills or help his harass quite a bit.

You also cant comprehend the fact that ive said, clearly, i dont WANT a total reversion. GP needed some changes and getting rid of his ball of stats E was a great step towards that. However, GP has no kill secure, if someone isnt bursted to death, they escape 90% of the tine. When they got rid of a PERMANENT 21% slow (that needed to stack!) they turned GP from someone with the potential to snowball into an AD caster who cant followup on his burst. The new passive has a long cooldown and a reset; cool. He still cant secure kills, and the true damage actually does MUCH less than the old magic damage did. Like... a lot less, over time.
The old passive was sustainable and actually helped GP get kills. Not bully out of lane, but Actually secure kills.

Wanna know what old GPs most fun build was, for me? item 3031 item 3087 item 3046 item 3006 item 3078

Obviously it doesnt work with the new AD changes, but it was such a fun build to melt squishies and snowball with. You got one BF sword, then a sheen, then boots, then finished your shiv, then finished your IE... then you got your PD and trinity, then finished your IE, then started on your last IE. And you know what made it work, what let you snowball to even GET the first BF sword? Aggressive use of your slow after you Q them down to ~half health. By that point you would have 400+MS, spellblade, and 1.25 attack speed; in the early game that was more than enough to get kills. Without that slow, GP is relegated to toplane where kills dont matter and he can "harass" and just try to farm as best he can. But against anyone ranged? Good luck; youre not gonna get your barrels off for shit.

VaporeonKunDec 18, 20154 votes

I didn't play old GP that much because there were tons of champions that were better than him at the time. Now he's been given more teamfight oriented style and not single target eliminate with one ability.

You keep bringing up "securing kills" but you're not elaborating very well on that. Maybe the new GP doesn't need burst to do well, maybe the old one's damage was actually absurd and quite frankly toxic. Magic damage on an auto attack? What? Old Darius had something similar and it was just as dumb and folly. It was free damage on someone who didn't need it, now you have to get in their face to make use of the passive better.

I don't have to have played him a lot to know that its scaling was bad. Very bad. Infact it was pretty much pointless considering how he was often built anyway. You'd never get any use out of it because you could eliminate people with a Q half the time. It was just fickle damage that doesn't amount to much compared to the rest of his abilities. The slow also becomes irrelevant in the same regard if you could delete your opposition with little to no effort. The slow didn't even make sense in the first place.

If your opponent is getting away 90% of the time, you're not doing something right. You're meant to place the barrels strategically, not haphazardly. If they're getting destroy then the problem lies in whether you're actually placing them properly or if your team is not positioning properly for them to be effective.

The FastDec 18, 20153 votes

"I didn't play old GP that much because there were tons of champions that were better than him at the time."

There were tons of champions that YOU THOUGHT were better than him at the time. Perception is very important. Remember when urgot was garbage? And then became a staple LCS midlaner for a couple of weeks despite only very minor changes? GP was a solo queue MONSTER, like old Fiora, but perception kept people from playing them.

Lazypeon100Dec 18, 20155 votes

As someone who has played many urgot games, I can tell you those changes were not minor. They made it so you could actually get his W at level 4 instead of 8/9. Before then it was a waste to level up W.

Also, urgot was picked mid lane as a counter to Zed during that time. Zed was a very popular pick, and urgot HARD counters him. Zed often cannot shadow away in time to dodge the E, making it easy to land his E + Q Q Q combo, and after six if zed ever ults urgot he can just ult back, take zero damage, and win the trade cause of his increased stats.

Those changes also helped his build path out. Calling those changes minor is just wrong >_>.

The FastDec 20, 20151 votes

Fair enough, I got my "minor changes" comment because I have a friend who started playing with me in season 3 who'd play Urgot on and off and he said he didn't really feel the changes all that much. I also heard some random babble about how the changes were alright but not that significant. So my fault on that one, but either way the original point stands.

terkmcDec 18, 20153 votes

You do know the barrel slow for like 80% right? That's a huge amount, and you can chain multiple barrels in a row to increase the slow duration, along with TF+Passive speed boost and he definitely secure kill

Spacesuit SpiffDec 19, 20154 votes

This is just a fancy way of saying "im mad because i have no idea how to use the barrels".

There is so much you can do with those barrels and its hella fun"

ParoeDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is just a fancy way of saying "im mad because i have no idea how to use the barrels".

There is so much you can do with those barrels and its hella fun"

How funny then that im saying his new E was a good change, and that the new passive is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction. GP needed that slow much more than people realize, as live GP doesnt FEEL satisfying to play as.

Its probably got to do with how many people never actually played old GP and flocked to the reworked GP because hew and shiny and free skin.

GigahappytownDec 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

How funny then that im saying his new E was a good change, and that the new passive is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction. GP needed that slow much more than people realize, as live GP doesnt FEEL satisfying to play as.

Its probably got to do with how many people never actually played old GP and flocked to the reworked GP because hew and shiny and free skin.

You don't need the slow anymore

e>q>aa>ignite is all you need and more

ParoeDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You don't need the slow anymore

e>q>aa>ignite is all you need and more

And what if theyre still alive after that? What if they DONT get bursted down?

"oh well ill get them next time! Now back to farming." Old GP was "Come'ere ya little rat! lemme end ya with some flare".

That being said, i would LOVE if rito could combine old GP and new GP. the new ult mechanics are blegh to me, but a step in a good direction. The new E is definitely more healthy than his old E. His new W is also more healthy.

But this is probably a case of "New cass is fine!" where people who never, ord hardly ever, played old GP tried his rework and found they "enjoyed" it, then stopped playing him because his playstyle is stupidly passive now. GP, nasus, and Cass all need farmer skins since their reworks lol.

The FastDec 18, 20153 votes

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to disagree here.

Riot removed the old E because it was uninteractive and because it was TOO STRONG. It was invisible power. That E was insane, ignoring the AoE, it gave GP something like 473MS With Trinity Shiv. His passive made him one of the strongest level 1-2 champions in the game, and provided very good chase at all points in the game, when combined with his movespeed. I could catchup to almost any champion.

I'm not saying he didnt need to be changed, and I'm not saying he is better/worse than current GP, but I am saying that he was not how you are making him out to be. Yes he had much less utility, but he also had much safer/easier damage, better heals and general survivability, build diversity, among other things.

elon wątrobaDec 18, 20151 votes

I agree, that passive was bad. I wouldn't say that 10% movement speed and 20 ad is useless for a team.

VaporeonKunDec 18, 20151 votes

I was arguing for arguing sake on the matter of the E ability.

I was pretty tired when I wrote most of this and after re-reading it I did overlook what the E was useful for, but even then I still think it would have been better as an aura effect on an item.... Never mind, 10% movespeed on an aura would just increase Janna's effectiveness and we don't need that!

AhristocatsDec 18, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Yes, yes he was. If riot were smart they would revert the GP rework, give him BACK his old Q, and make the barrels indestructable but have them blow up after a delay, dealing total AD.

I wish they hadnt gotten rid of his old passive. grog soaked blade was AMAZING and gave GP something he really needed - and still needs quite a bit. He has "blow your load" syndrome where he drops good (well, decent now) burst damage but then has 0 follow up. He has no kill secure. And it makes him extremely unsatisfying to play if you didnt know better.

GP is now an Immobile AD caster, at best. at his worst hes just a shitty ball of thats with an AoE slow that deals minimal damage.

there is so much wrong in this post

elon wątrobaDec 18, 20151 votes

His passive was bad, but his e was so fucking good.

TotalJerkDec 18, 20153 votes

Sometimes I don't understand why when Riot finds a champion with a cancerous play pattern, they want to nerf everything that isn't cancerous first.

"Gangplank can be too safe, so we're going to nerf the part of his kit that actually rewards him for risky behavior."

When a champion relies on cancer, hitting everything else just makes them rely on said cancer even more, ultimately making them even more unfun to play against because when it's the only thing they do well, it'll be the only thing they do at all.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sometimes I don't understand why when Riot finds a champion with a cancerous play pattern, they want to nerf everything that isn't cancerous first.

When a champion relies on cancer, hitting everything else just makes them rely on said cancer even more, ultimately making them even more unfun to play against because when it's the only thing they do well, it'll be the only thing they do at all.

i feel like i will be sad, because his passive does an incredible amount of damage but GP has no defensive spells since his heal should be used in the end, so being in melee is hard and when i play gangplank i make sure to hit with the passive even if it's dangerous, but with the new patch i'm afraid of not going to do this, will see if the passive is still good.

Phuc Dat BichDec 18, 20152 votes

he is broken atm around master-challenger if you pick GP is insta win

So please learn dont talk about balance if you cant even escape from bronze

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phuc Dat Bich,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-18T17:08:08.098+0000)

he is broken atm around master-challenger if you pick GP is insta win

So please learn dont talk about balance if you cant even escape from bronze

first, OP isn't in bronze, secondly he is agreeing that GP is broken and is mad because GP players will still sit in the back and throw barrels while they are pirates.

VexfulDec 18, 20151 votes

It's a shame most of the ranged top laners aren't that great outside of a few. They would pop his barrels easily without risking their own safety.

AhristocatsDec 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's a shame most of the ranged top laners aren't that great outside of a few. They would pop his barrels easily without risking their own safety.

if you have a good attack speed champ, you can destroy his barrel quickly before he can react and destroy it.

Captain AishiDec 18, 20151 votes

unless you're melee, in which case your only option is to sit there and take it due to how fast chain barrel explosions happen someone with T2 boots should have the time to walk out of range of a barrel put on them for a chain explosion if they're moving right as the barrel is placed (since you can't kill the barrel because it becomes untargetable once the chain reaction is started for some reason)

The FastDec 18, 20151 votes

Good gangplanks can hit the barrel at 2HP and blow it up exactly as it turns to 1HP. However as a melee champion, you don't have travel time for your AA like GP's Q. Therefore, you should be able to kill the barrel before GP has the opportunity to if you are good.

Honestly the best way to beat GP in lane is with GP mechanics. He may not be balanced, but his playstyle itself is fine. He's got counterplay, he just needs less reward.

Captain AishiDec 18, 20152 votes

gp puts a barrel next to himself, then puts a barrel on you that is linked to it, you cannot destroy that 2nd barrel before it's hp ticks down to 1 as he Qs the barrel close to him, you take damage from the explosion since the 2nd barrel becomes untargetable when he Q's or autos the 1st barrel, and that's the problem

The FastDec 20, 20152 votes

That's definitely true, however he will not do that EVERY time, because early game he simply doesnt have the barrel reserves to keep that up indefinitely like in mid-late. So you can pressure him during that interval. Its a fine line, but you still DODGE it when it launches. Its not hard to bait it out either, and he'll eventually pop it for farm. Yes, he has zoning power, its part of his strength, and he always had it. I'd argue that it was stronger before really, but there'd be no point in that.

Captain AishiDec 20, 20151 votes

barrels last 1 minute and have an 18 second recharge time at rank1, meaning that from the get-go he gets almost 2 barrels per minion wave, meaning you're zoned from every minion wave ever if you're not a champion that can pressure him constantly and afford to take his damage in trades, and there are not many champions who fit that description that's just too much safety for the amount of power it has, or vice versa too much power for the amount of safety that comes with it

The FastDec 20, 20151 votes

I have literally never been zoned off of every single minion wave by a gangplank. You are assuming he plays absolutely perfectly at every point. He has to keep putting barrels down to deter someone from jumping on him, or as gank prevention. Minion waves also move, so you can control the minion wave to move it away from his barrels, rendering the already-placed barrels moot. There are are many more ways to play around these barrels than you are making out.

Again, not necessarily balanced, but certainly not as unbalanced as you are making out to be.

Captain AishiDec 20, 20151 votes

that's what i was saying in my previous post, to manipulate the minion wave, you need to go into it, when you do that, you take a barrel hit guaranteed, then next wave comes around, next barrel chain is ready, it makes his lane phase too much of him staying out of range while also having reliable harass and farming tools

The FastDec 21, 20151 votes

I have literally never been zoned off of every single minion wave by a gangplank.

Not even when he was ahead.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T16:42:43.048+0000)

barrels last 1 minute and have an 18 second recharge time at rank1, meaning that from the get-go he gets almost 2 barrels per minion wave, meaning you're zoned from every minion wave ever if you're not a champion that can pressure him constantly and afford to take his damage in trades, and there are not many champions who fit that description that's just too much safety for the amount of power it has, or vice versa too much power for the amount of safety that comes with it

you can bait him, run into the barrel and then run back

Captain AishiDec 20, 20151 votes

you can't if he puts a 2nd barrel on top of you and chains them though, that's what i'm talking about here

AhristocatsDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NzqLd1AE,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-20T17:40:47.041+0000)

you can't if he puts a 2nd barrel on top of you and chains them though, that's what i'm talking about here

if he puts one barrel, run into this barrel and try to destroy it, if it has 1 hp run back to bait him. You can do this even if he puts a barrel in front of himself

ShatoSummonerDec 18, 20151 votes

GP's Q has a cast time that auto attacks don't have. So generally speaking all auto attacks should hit the barrel before his q hits it assuming both commands were input at the same time.

GigahappytownDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's a shame most of the ranged top laners aren't that great outside of a few. They would pop his barrels easily without risking their own safety.

only ones that come to mind are caitlyn

quinn can't pop them but it doesn't matter as gp can't engage off barrells since quinn is extremely anti-melee

WeatheredDec 18, 20151 votes

GP get's nerfed, you complain that it wasn't enough. He wasn't buffed, you shouldn't be mad.

AhristocatsDec 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

GP get's nerfed, you complain that it wasn't enough. He wasn't buffed, you shouldn't be mad.

you're right, but i'm mad because they promoted unhealthy non interaction gameplay

DunkinNoobsDec 19, 20151 votes

Just nerf the extra gold he gets from Q. 8 gold per minion was reasonable when he could only kill 1 at a time. 8 gold per minion is no longer reasonable now that he can 1 shot entire waves.