Riot Please Tell Me why Champion Scaling is Super Outdated

EnigmaticMachine··1 votes·1,052 views

All I have to say is that Riot needs to tone down high damage dealers base hp stats. level 18 adcs should never get to 2000 hp as a base level stat. Most tanks are also around 2000 at level 18 too but deal less damage. Actually Riot really needs to hard revamp every champions base stats. Looking at this makes me want to question the legitimacy of their balance team.

9 Comments

iiGazeii4 votes

HP is not the only measurement of tankiness. Resistances matter, which tanks have a lot more of baseline, plus they build even more. Tanks are tanks because of their abilities and item builds, not because they just have more base HP. If they were incredibly tanky through base stats alone, they'd just build raw damage, or worse, nothing, and do their jobs just fine.

EnigmaticMachine1 votes

{quoted}

HP is not the only measurement of tankiness. Resistances matter, which tanks have a lot more of baseline, plus they build even more. Tanks are tanks because of their abilities and item builds, not because they just have more base HP. If they were incredibly tanky through base stats alone, they'd just build raw damage, or worse, nothing, and do their jobs just fine.

Then explain why kalista gets 91 armor at level 18... If resistances are also a factor please enlighten me on the class that is suppose to be squishy has that level or base armor and 2234 hp. Please tell me how you are going to bs your way through this

iiGazeii3 votes

At level 18, Braum has 115 armor and 2206 HP, effectively more health than Kalista. He's also got 53.35 MR, compared to Kalista's paltry max of 38.5.

Braum also has defensive abilities that make him tankier. He can block damage and gain bonus resistances. He's objectively harder to kill than Kalista will ever be.

Braum also has armor/MR scalings in his kit. He's supposed to build a lot of them, and gets more effective when he does, so he can easily have double what his baseline gives him. If you build full tank Kalista, you are trolling, and you can neither tank nor do your actually job of being a damage dealer.

EnigmaticMachine1 votes

{quoted}

At level 18, Braum has 115 armor and 2206 HP, effectively more health than Kalista. He's also got 53.35 MR, compared to Kalista's paltry max of 38.5.

Braum also has defensive abilities that make him tankier. He can block damage and gain bonus resistances. He's objectively harder to kill than Kalista will ever be.

Braum also has armor/MR scalings in his kit. He's supposed to build a lot of them, and gets more effective when he does, so he can easily have double what his baseline gives him. If you build full tank Kalista, you are trolling, and you can neither tank nor do your actually job of being a damage dealer.

The fact that Braum isnt played should show you how he isnt tanking like he should. Braum still dies quicker than most damage carries. Go look at dota 2 and look how the higher damage you get the lower hp and armor stats you receive. You shouldnt have almost on par scaling with a carry on stats that you solely build. It is what we call bad balancing. In fact Riot is punishing you each game with every build that tries to remotely build tanky. Tanks have been dead or limping for a long time.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that Braum isnt played should show you how he isnt tanking like he should. Braum still dies quicker than most damage carries. Go look at dota 2 and look how the higher damage you get the lower hp and armor stats you receive. You shouldnt have almost on par scaling with a carry on stats that you solely build. It is what we call bad balancing.

Or he isn't picked because purely defensive supports aren't meta currently. Braum can't engage as well as the other tank supports and he certainly cannot poke like the... well poke supports and he cannot sustain at all unlike the heal/shield supports. He is a mostly purely defensive support. HP isn't the only thing that matters. Dota has a much bigger emphasis on item actives unlike league. The way dota and league balance their games are completely different. Sorry to burst your bubble but base stats aren't what makes a champion be a "tank" but their kits.

iiGazeii2 votes

If you're dying faster than a carry as Braum, you aren't doing it right. You have a big shield that soaks up the majority of damage coming at you. That alone should keep even a full AP Braum alive longer than a carry.

Tanks DO have better defensive stats baseline than carries. It's not a lot more, but it's more. They also spend their gold on more of those stats, so they end up way tankier, and have abilities that allow them to soak up damage and be in the thick of it. Base stats aren't everything, it's what you build that matters most.

Go play DOTA if you think they do a better job of balance.

Kai Guy1 votes

I hate turn speed as a balance decision thou. >< so clunky.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

HP is not the only measurement of tankiness. Resistances matter, which tanks have a lot more of baseline, plus they build even more. Tanks are tanks because of their abilities and item builds, not because they just have more base HP. If they were incredibly tanky through base stats alone, they'd just build raw damage, or worse, nothing, and do their jobs just fine.

Base stats can be a potent balancing tool though, theres a reason why the "5ms" meme is true, or why -5HP per level dramatically alters a champions performance. HP is also multiplied pretty heavily by resistances, so much so that raw resistances are something like 50% less effective than raw HP at any given time.

Lets do a hypothetical; Champion A has 1000 base health, 2 attacks per second, and deals 100 damage per auto. Champion B has 2000 base health, 1 attack per second, and deals 100 damage per auto. Champion B deals as much relative damage as champion A, and takes just as much time, but champion A gets buffed to 2000 health because they dont feel its fair. Now that its "fair" champion A takes twenty seconds to kill while champion B still takes ten seconds to kill, despite champion B not having as much damage as A. Any interaction between champion A and B means champion B will be behind no matter what; and thats not balanced.

Theres also the bruiser vs tank dilemma, where bruisers utilize tank items far better than actual tanks without any additional investment. Buffing tanks to 2500HP and dropping bruisers to 1800HP would give some room to give tank itemization HP splits so they cant abuse tank itemization without fully comitting to it. This would also require riot to fully flesh out who and what bruisers are, and perform sweeping reworks to account for that. Sion Maokai and Poppy for example are not tanks. Maokai and poppy are classic bruisers, the only reason they dont build like say... renekton right now is because theyre held back by previous iterations. Maokai is a 'tank' by default because of his old ultimate, despite having all the hallmarks of a traditional bruiser. Poppy is much the same, where her old ultimate and passive made her the single best tank in the game.

to be honest, giving tanks another 500 base health then giving poppy's old passive on a raw health item gated by massive health - in the four thousands range - would be amazing in terms of a tanks ability to tank come lategame, but still allow them to be destroyed when focused.

The entire team1 votes

Why are you so surprised that tanks die in 5 seconds, when team fights can last 5 seconds? If tanks do die, then they did their job being focused down, compared to the carries that they protect and peel. That’s the point of most tanks: to be focused down by the opposite team while the tank’s carries and teammates kill the other team.

Plus, abilities matter in terms of tanking. Braum’s fuckyoushield is an amazing defensive weapon and his ultimate is a team fighting game changer if done right. Kalista’s passive will only get you so far, plus she has much lower range compared to other ADCs so she needs the HP. Lastly, Braum is supposed to PROTECT OTHERS, AKA take and intercept ALL DAMAGE that would be aimed at carries and bring it to himself. AKA, very valid reason that he dieS faster, knowing that he did his job right.

Looking at this thread of yours makes me want to question the legitimacy of your idea of balance (maybe you just need to git gud).

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