Rageblade needs a nerf, I don't think anyone can deny it at this point

FalconPawwwwnch·Nov 16, 2015·58 votes·5,647 views

Either cost needs to go up by like 300 or they need to make it harder for melee to stack the passive

It's way too easy to stack at the moment

Don't get me wrong, the item's premise is really good. The way it stacks and the stats the stacks give are really good too, and I think champions should be rewarded for stacking the passive, but it's too cheap.

I like the idea of a good hybrid item for Jax/Kayle but when champions who don't even care about like 40% of the stats (the AP) buy it you know there's a problem. Like I said, I don't think the stats on the item are the problem; the problem is that it's so cheap so even if you don't use the AP much it's still worth getting, so make it cost a couple hundred more.

tl;dr combine cost of rageblade atm is 775, make it 1000ish and see if that helps

52 Comments

KING OF MASKSNov 16, 201526 votes

Rageblade needs a nerf, huh?

That comes close to being a top candidate for "Thread titles I thought I'd never see," I think.

BattalionNov 17, 20156 votes

5.22 Paper Mache Turret + item 3056 + Level 6 Jax = No more 5.22 Paper Mache Turret

"Ohm Wrecker Op, please nerf."

If I ever see this I might cry...that and

" Yorick Mori rework hitting the PBE" Yorick

HawkefireNov 16, 20159 votes

Agreed, it is far too strong in its current form.

But I must say, I do enjoy it actually being useful.

NoPaxtNov 16, 20156 votes

item 3146 + item 3124 + Akali is pretty unstoppable and she cares about every stat...

Clockwork MouseNov 17, 20152 votes

My friend built this, got up to 1000 ping and got a quad kill. When it was done he said his screen was pretty much frozen and he was just randomly clicking.

Axis the DragonNov 19, 20151 votes

I don't see how the current rageblade is any good on akali though since it no longer stacks on spells ._. I mean, 4 autos isn't hard to do by weaving in between the hits, but it really kills her instant burst overall lol

NoPaxtNov 19, 20151 votes

I think you need to try it...

Axis the DragonNov 19, 20151 votes

I will eventually, I'm just skeptical

What does it do that's so good? Like, I guess you can attack minions 2-3 times before going all in to ensure you have the full stacks when you try to burst your targets down, but I feel like most of Akali's new power comes from the updated gunblade, not rageblade =/

RebonackNov 16, 20153 votes

Change the recipe to item 1026 item 1037 item 1043 and put its price point in the 3-3.5K range. Keep the fully stacked IAS the same, reduce the fully stacked AD and AP a bit. Give it 15 OnHit magic damage that upgrades to the full damage AoE version at 8 stacks. Make melee champions stack one at a time rather than two. Make spells count toward the stacks again so a wider range of champions can maintain it rather than just sticky auto-attackers.

That should balance it nicely.

FalconPawwwwnchNov 16, 20154 votes

I don't think it should give AS as a base stat

The whole premise of the item is to stay in a fight to get the stacks up so you can ramp up your sustained damage

Giving it AS makes it stack much easier and changes the whole premise of the passive

JedenVojakNov 16, 20154 votes

AS is the whole point of the item - it's an auto-attack suppliment item for hybrids and it's always had attack speed.

FalconPawwwwnchNov 16, 20152 votes

reread what I said

I said it shouldn't give base AS

I.e. The AS should come from stacking the passive

Apologies for not making that clear

JedenVojakNov 16, 20153 votes

I have reread what you said, and understand what you're saying - but you're not making any sense.

You say it's too cheap, but how expensive is it supposed to be? It's weaker than its cost, but then becomes stronger with stats - is it really so strong that it's crowding out other item choices?

FalconPawwwwnchNov 16, 20153 votes

Yes

Even Champions who don't use the AP much are building it like Irelia

That signifies that the item is too gold efficient

Back in Season 1 Gunblade had the same problem, it gave so many stats that even champions who wouldn't use the AP at all like Lee Sin/Renekton would buy it because of the massive AD/Lifesteal/spellvamp values making the item still worth buying

I don't think it needs to be made THAT much more expensive, just a couple hundred

Some people are suggesting it should be over 3k for the same stats which I disagree with

Auz the RipperNov 17, 20152 votes

Irelia has very good AP ratios People just always neglected building it because AD and defensive stats were better Similar to Jax

RebonackNov 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think it should give AS as a base stat

The whole premise of the item is to stay in a fight to get the stacks up so you can ramp up your sustained damage

Giving it AS makes it stack much easier and changes the whole premise of the passive

No, it just makes it more attractive on hybrid champions without massive attack speed steroids in their kit.

LynXerfNov 16, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Change the recipe to and put its price point in the 3-3.5K range. Keep the fully stacked IAS the same, reduce the fully stacked AD and AP a bit. Give it 15 OnHit magic damage that upgrades to the full damage AoE version at 8 stacks. Make melee champions stack one at a time rather than two. Make spells count toward the stacks again so a wider range of champions can maintain it rather than just sticky auto-attackers.

That should balance it nicely.

Wow, that would make it completely useless. Wow.

I think all it would take is reducing the attack damage gain per hit from +3 to +2, and increasing the cost by 100 to 2600.

Might sound like a small change but a 100 cost increase and 8 attack damage fewer when stacked would make a difference. It's a good pure damage item, so it is feast or famine and therefore should be the most cost efficient item in game (when stacked).

FalconPawwwwnchNov 16, 20151 votes

I like this change better

The stat combination on it is fine, it just needs to be less efficient

A Miss FortuneNov 17, 20152 votes

The item is already really cheap I wouldn't say pushing 200 or 300 gold would be bad, because right now there's not really a reason to buy anything else with any hybrid champion. Sure Gunblade in general might be stronger as Rageblade's only good when you stack it, but the fact that Rageblade is significantly cheaper will make people buy it over Gunblade.

maikokkNov 17, 20151 votes

Kayle item 3115 item 3006 item 3124

until full build then start selling for slot efficiency. rage blade is cost effective without the passive lol

procrastinasianNov 17, 20152 votes

It really isn't... It becomes cost effective after 2 stacks on it's passive, but it's at ~75% otherwise. Yes, I understand that it's more than 200% cost effective at full stacks, but aren't most feast-or-famine items supposed to be like that? According to the League wiki, the 3 extra Rageblades combined wouldn't equal the cost effectiveness of one and full stacks.

maikokkNov 17, 20151 votes

i dont think you are factoring that at max stacks the value of AP and AD go up becuse of increased scaling. almost any AP or AD item you buy will have other stats, so if you are going for a damage curve build then just spamming rage-blades gets there faster. of course you would buy item 1026 x3 before buying any more rageblades to synergize with rageblade and nashors passive most effectively.

but from there, after you hit that huge powerspike... sure your momentum slows a tiny bit when you finish your next blade... but in this meta its generally worth to go for mid game strats

A Miss FortuneNov 17, 20152 votes

tfw you can literally build 3 Ardent Censers, an Infinity Edge, and 2 Zeke's on Kayle and still make it reasonably work.

LynXerfNov 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

until full build then start selling for slot efficiency. rage blade is cost effective without the passive lol

So you think spending 775 (the recipe cost) for 5 attack damage is cost effective? Alrighty then

Lintu PuckNov 17, 20153 votes

put it on Kog'maw, RANGED HYDRA! >:D

Axis the DragonNov 17, 20152 votes

I've taken a liking to the AoE Kog'Maw build

KogMaw Core: item 3006 item 3124 item 3146 item 3085 - you clear waves almost as fast as Sivir with a Statikk [Situational]: item 3153 item 3115 item 3026 item 3036 item 3812 item 3139 item 3078 item 3033 item 3087 item 3094 Any one of these could work, though I'm partial to and myself

Lintu PuckNov 19, 20151 votes

I actually don't find item 3094 that great on Kog, since it's for a powerful single shot, while Kog is meant to be a rapid fire barrage. Now Caitlyn on the other hand, it just powers up darn near everything for her. :O

Axis the DragonNov 19, 20151 votes

Whoops I copy pasted the wrong code LOL I meant to put statikk, not firecannon - good catch

Statikk + Runaan's + Rageblade is just monstrous waveclear and it's why I like the combo so much

Gunblade (plus rageblade passive) is all the healing koggy needs, and triforce rounds out the build with nicely balanced stats (and some CDR as a bonus to boot)

MLDzXnRRRNov 17, 20153 votes

When you nerf it, people will just start building Triforce again and Rageblade will be forgotten... Noone was building it before the changes, because it wasn't scaling at all into lategame.

ArchenzNov 17, 20153 votes

Came here expecting a whiny bitch complaining about rageblade and asking for it to be gutted back to its previous state or be deleted.

What I got was a reasonable thread about an item that gives too many stats for such a cheap price.

Good job op. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

SpoofghoulNov 16, 20152 votes

item 3070

NotClarkolasNov 16, 20152 votes

It's great item and shouldn't be changed OTHER than the price. Up it to like 3300 and itll be great

TotalJerkNov 16, 20152 votes

You're literally reposting almost word for word what Scarra said in his video about the preseason.

StephenizgodNov 17, 20152 votes

Yea its pretty strong right now but its price shouldnt go up any more than 300 gold, its not like its the most OP item ever. The Blasting Wand component makes it very unappealing to buy on AD champions even if you can use the AP, so normally i just buy Pickaxe then wait so i can full buy it. I think that needs to change because once you have pickaxe its not hard to save up for the entire item.

AlphariteNov 17, 20152 votes

Increase the cost a bit. I think it's great how this item has brought fringe champs into the spotlight and I'd hate to see them gone so soon due to a huge nerf to the item.

LithiumWednesdayNov 17, 20152 votes

Someone needs to kill ADCs, right?

(Everyone else too, but that's beside the point). Besides, it works really well on Kog'Maw.

SaltyKrackaNov 17, 20152 votes

The thing that annoys me most about it and Gunblade is that Riot made hyper-efficient hybrid items again, despite Xypherous repeatedly hammering the point about how that makes for bad balancing (i.e. Having to balance champs around said hybrid items, eventually having to nerf the items, said champs being shit)

DirkTarTarNov 17, 20152 votes

But Jax is our weapon against the ADC incursion!!

tbh.. I feel that there are more things that are going wrong right now than Rageblade that are going to be much muuuuuch higher priority

Azuredragon653Nov 16, 20151 votes

I agree, but the strength of the items is overstated.

nananananacatNov 17, 20151 votes

I agree it needs a nerf, along with Hextech Gunblade... I don't want Jax nerfed, u feel?

Only Play DariusNov 17, 20151 votes

Yea having Jax AA minions for 5 seconds then jump on me and take half my HP that early in the game is getting old.

Dominick DestineNov 17, 20151 votes

I guess you could say it's causing a lot of..... rage...?

OHHHHHHH

Irelia BotNov 17, 20151 votes

2 suggestions. Maaking it have everything it currently has but reducing the number of stacks to 6 from 8 would make it more realistic.

so bascially reducing the fully stacked rageblade to 48% attack speed form 64 48 AD down from 54 64 AP down from 72

Make it only give one stack for each auto and one stack for each ability as well as make it so that you can only gain a stack once .75 seconds. After 4 seconds of not using an ability or auto attack the stacks will decay by one until it reaches 0. This makes it possible to use it to zone out an enemy but also possible to totally blow it and become vulnerable to say a Riven all in if she can bait it out. When it reaches 6 stacks it gets the aoe/on-hit damage for 5 seconds after which the item becomes disabled form getting stacks for 5 seconds and you lose the bonus AD, AS and AP from the stacks. To make sure it scales reasonably well later into the game the bonus on-hit AD ratio will be 20% instead of 15% and on-hitAP will be 10% up from 7.5%.

While rageblade is strong it is not beyond the realms of being able to be balanced with a reason to be bought. It just lacks some real limits currently much like annie's passive is an endless free zoning tool.

Gunblade is not the problem currently it is rageblade that is over the top and lacking windows of weakness to limit it's power.

I want to see hybrids make a return in league and over nerfing rageblade would be an easy way to make sure they never can come back.

And I will say that this would still be an item that Irelia with her 2.5 total AP ratio will still consider getting if a change like this were to happen. I mean it is currently all around better then trinity for her.

LegendaryLemurNov 17, 20151 votes

Why does it gain stacks when you autoattack towers? That seems kinda odd. Maybe they could remove that at the same time they apply whatever other nerfs it's gonna get.

originary91Nov 17, 20151 votes

Imo remove Pickaxe from the build path and replace it with recurve bow instead. Then up the price of the item by about 200. Makes it less attractive to AD champions then, but people like Jax/Kayle can build it because they either scale well off of just AP and AS, or they're just used to shit build paths in the first place. If that doesn't work, then start reducing the AD that stacks give too.

junglerboy16Nov 17, 20151 votes

The real problem it has is that the on-hit's AoE is too large.

Nerf that by about 50 range, the on-hit's base damage down to 10, and make it take 10 stacks to reach max with roughly the same bonus stats.

Nerving the gold cost simply pushes back the powerspike it gives, but the real problem is that it synergizes too well with gun blade on champs who can use either. Nerving the stack rate, on-hit damage, and AoE are the most effective ways to tone back its over the top strength as a rush item while also tackling its oppressive strength with gun blade's "heal off of everything" passive.

ChessPwn995Nov 17, 20151 votes

I kinda feel that giving it the stacking AD would be kinda enough to make it cool.

SilverDrakeNov 19, 20151 votes

The price isn't the issue. They will probably just get rid of the melee bonus. Then it will be back to balance/underplayed.

King MugiwaraNov 19, 20151 votes

Had a Xin jung on enemy team. I go 7/0 from ganking all lanes and my bot is somewhat fed. I am Kindred (Not so good against Xin) and I bump into him at scuttle and he kills me near to instantly and making it impossible to use flash or any sort of escape. He then duos my bot lane at full hp.