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@Xypherous, I DO NOT approve of your removing Spell Vamp

SnugglePuggle94··15 votes·7,552 views

This is absurd. "I'm killing Spell Vamp mostly because I'm actually kind of sick of what item availability on this stat has done to these champions. Every single one of these champions have become more binary based on whether or not they can acquire the gold to get Revolver - and every single one of these champion's laning phases has gotten worse and more miserable because of it as we further accept the world in which they rush Revolver."

Well, I'm sick of you and how you are taking away a really cool aspect of the game just because you don't like it on some champions and how it works with them or how it affects them. You took out one of my favorite builds when you took out SV from Will of the Ancients and Hextech Gunblade during the marksmen patch- my favorite Morgana SpellVamp build (to stack with her passive). Now you are taking SV out entirely, which pisses me off.

Since that patch, my favorite build wasn't that favorable to do anymore because of the SV being removed and changed into the "15% of damage dealt heals you" crap, so I had to go to more binary, full AP builds. Now I have to stick with that because of you.

Not to mention, how is Vladimir going to work with this? Especially with Will of the Ancients being removed, I don't see how he will be viable to play. Not cool. People will not like this especially for him. Bring it back or work around it. Spend more time thinking about things and how you can make it better, and not be like "oh this hasn't been doing well, let's just delete it from the game." Things like this make players hate you.

And while we are on the topic of the AP itemization, the Zhonya changes are god awful. Yay for letting Zed now be able to ult us twice in the time span that the active is on cooldown, all the while we have less AP-meaning less damage- and CDR.

Good Lord, Riot. Every change you make, makes me hate the game and you even more.

60 Comments

DeloricVI6 votes

Honestly, I feel like Spell Vamp wasn't a common build for a damn good reason. It just can't stack up to AD's lifesteal, first off, and second off, you need insane amounts of burst to make spell vamp make any noticeable difference (unless you're Vlad) and Will of the Ancients was pretty much never built. If it was, then it was always following Hextech Gunblade.

These items also had some pretty meh AP ratings, thus making it harder to burst people. And if you're bursting people to near-instantly kill them, why do you need SpellVamp? If they're not dead by the end of your combo, you probably messed up by missing skillshots/underestimating their remaining health/forgetting they built abyssal scepter, etc. We also had only one dedicated spell vamp item. Gunblade is hybrid, and most people just buy it for the active and hybrid stats, not the spell vamp.

I personally don't think anyone will miss Will of the Ancients, tbh.

SnugglePuggle945 votes

Most champions don't use it because they don't have SV in their kit, that's why. Morgana, Vlad, etc have it, and can do crazy damage while building it. I've burst many people down with WOTA, Hextech, then full AP build on Morgana, while healing a ton.

I will miss it. That's why I'm pissed they are taking it.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Most champions don't use it because they don't have SV in their kit, that's why. Morgana, Vlad, etc have it, and can do crazy damage while building it. I've burst many people down with WOTA, Hextech, then full AP build on Morgana, while healing a ton.

I will miss it. That's why I'm pissed they are taking it.

Spell vamp is better when you don't have regen on your kit.

Vlad builds it despite having lots of regen because he also has health costs he needs to offset.

Morgana simply shouldn't ever build it.

OzzieTheHead1 votes

Morgana WOTA is season 2 where everyone was still discovering the game.

Misterjablez6 votes

I don't quite understand why Riot thinks spellvamp is such a toxic presence when lifesteal exists, isn't the purpose of spellvamp to provide AP champions a form of sustain since lifesteal only applies to physical damage?

TheREDRUM5 votes

Not gonna lie, mad about wota being removed, but if they remove spell vamp quints too I'm gonna be livid. Ya, I'm probably in the minority, but i built sv into most my mage kits than not. Especially my mid lane malz. Run sv quint, wota, and that coupled with the built in mana sustain. By 20min in even if i haven't gotten a lane kill, i likely pushed my lane opponent back so much and stayed in lane constantly i get 2-3 lvls ahead and snowball to hell when i finally back. Hell, I've gone 30min 6/1/5 on malz w/o backing once just having dorans ring with spell vamp in my build. Spell vamp is highly underrated, it's amazing if you know how to utilize it. Sv on swain coupled with his ulti regen, sv on burst mages like annie and lb so you can burst someone down to death but keep health up enough to survive the jg gank coming or even kill that person. Or even like another said sv on morg to bolster her passive even more, it's like when i run ls quints on my nas, just that much better. I've healed over half my hp with one bind on a sv build morg, unkillable. I just hate the way riot goes about making these changes constantly, saying they're to improve "diversity" and "unique play styles" , yet all they do is remove diversity and make others conform to their meta. Like their trinity change, sure the cdr is nice, but removing the ap sucked when its a core item on hybrid build champs that have hybrid damage scalings. Facking rito, no wonder other games been much more appealing lately. Their clientele will sit on these forum all day telling them what they want, what they like or don't like about their game and progress and rito will just ignore them and do the complete opposite. Bad business.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Glad I'm not the only one seeing their greedy hypocrisy.

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

The fact that item 3152 works on nobody except Vladimir is technically the reason why this item doesn't seem to have a good place in the store, (cz who the fuck buys WOTA on a Morgana . Seriously.....) adding to the fact that even Vlad himself is getting some changes.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Um, yes people buy it. It works on Morgana great if you knew what her passive is you dumbo. She gets 10/15/20% Spell Vamp, so that along with WOTA and Hextech, she could heal for a shit ton off her Q and do damage. It was my favorite way to build her.

Learn your information before you attack people for playing a different way.

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

Items such as item 3165 item 3157 is an actual prioritize items for Morgana since she needs the extra Mana Regeneration & the proper safe engage with her ult.

The fact that she already has natural spell vamps shows that you can spread out your build path, and yet you wasted a slot with an item that's giving the same shit.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Good Lord I don't know if you actually believe that or you are just stupid.

No, it is not a wasted slot, because it STACKS. When WOTA had 20% SV on it, late game when Morg has her passive to 20%, therefore she had 40% SV, therefore healing a shit ton.

I never really needed Morello's on Morg, but I always grab Zhonya's and more AP after getting my SV items, therefore I am still doing a lot of damage while healing up.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

Seeing that you're playing games in a Bronze 3 elo, it's a common thing you'll be fighting against people who will be surprised with the "WTF WHERE DAT CHUNK OF HP HEALS COME FROM?" situations. On the upper level, it's cringy, and it's not a recommended item for Morgana since with her natural spell vamps, I can take the time to buy:

item 3157 where an active is all it takes to do a successful engage.

item 3116 to deal AoE slows in any massive teamfights.

item 3089 for that extra fast AP boost.

item 3027 a proper replacement for WOTA, since you can gain HP/Mana/AP throughout the game instead of having to rely on solely the unnecessary extra healings from WOTA.

Rushing Spell Vamp as a first item on a Morgana is a bad choice because you will lose out tons of early AP steroid purchases, and "faster healing" is not going to help against a good player playing:

Zed where he can literally just burst you down without giving you time to heal up for like what, 2 seconds.

Leblanc assuming you're easy to miss skillshots, same statement as Zed.

Lissandra where she can just ults herself, negating your extra healings & early low AP builds.

Yasuo where due to your low amount of early AP builds, a landed Q is nothing for Yasuo even despite not putting down his Windwall.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

I know about all those items and I use them. But using my SV build on Morg, I do it when I have an easy match up. Otherwise I go for more common builds, good Lord. Anyway I can't do it anymore because they are taking it out.

Also, don't bring my rank into a conversation. That ticks me off.

Beowulfss2 votes

{quoted}

I know about all those items and I use them. But using my SV build on Morg, I do it when I have an easy match up. Otherwise I go for more common builds, good Lord. Anyway I can't do it anymore because they are taking it out.

Also, don't bring my rank into a conversation. That ticks me off.

Yea it ticks me off when I'm wrong to. Don't worry about it!

Deaths Foresight3 votes

sadly in this case you're in the wrong. as he said it works for him. as long as it works for him he should be able to use it. and the moment it starts no longer working for him he will find a work around. either by moving it down in the build order or by replacing it with something more important for his build. all players should be able to refine the builds that work for THEM not build the items you think they should always get for every situation. perhaps league should change so all champions can only use the suggested items, and MUST have 2 defensive and 2 offensive items, and while you're at it you can remove masteries and runepages because everyone knows that those things are boring. hell while you're at it remove every champ but warwick. people should HAVE to play that way because everything else was removed for one reason or another, no need to voice your complaints, clearly you're just not skilled enough to understand how all the other champions were garbage compared to the legendary suggested items warwick.

tehtroll3342 votes

so, you know you're shit tier, but refuse to admit that "spellvamp" morgana is inefficient as all hell. I mean, sure it's a fun sounding build for when you're playing with friends, but its almost the same as building LS on Olaf. fun? yes. good? hell no.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

{quoted}

so, you know you're shit tier, but refuse to admit that "spellvamp" morgana is inefficient as all hell. I mean, sure it's a fun sounding build for when you're playing with friends, but its almost the same as building LS on Olaf. fun? yes. good? hell no.

so, you know you're a rude troll but refuse to keep your mouth shut, right?

Anyhow, ignoring your mean insult, SV Morgana was efficient for me, and yes it was good.

Take my advice and learn to keep your mouth shut. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

Um, yes people buy it. It works on Morgana great if you knew what her passive is you dumbo. She gets 10/15/20% Spell Vamp, so that along with WOTA and Hextech, she could heal for a shit ton off her Q and do damage. It was my favorite way to build her.

Learn your information before you attack people for playing a different way.

Spellvamp is actually even more terrible than the healing on WotA or Gunblade.

You need resists, high AP, and penetration to make spellvamp decent. You just need high AP to make wota/gunblade decent. Building tanky AP and just relying on her passive probably has way more effective healing than whatever build you are imagining is good.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

So? My builds still worked great on my Morgana. I had SV, mpen, AP, and defensive items in my build and it was an amazing, fun way to play her. Now that is taken away completely and it pisses me off.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

So? My builds still worked great on my Morgana. I had SV, mpen, AP, and defensive items in my build and it was an amazing, fun way to play her. Now that is taken away completely and it pisses me off.

You can still use Spell Vamp quints, 18/0/12, and heal a good amount with a tanky AP build. 30%+ of your HP with Q. More if you REALLY want to use gunblade.

Just don't forget to use a 30% CDR page so you can actually have decent up-time as well.

Keep in mind, the more of a stat you have, the less effective impact it has unless you have multipliers you can stack alongside it.

AP->Deathcap, abilities in general

AD->Crit, AS, MS, abilities/auto attacks in general

HP->Armor/MR

And so on.

Just like AD champs don't buy 5 lifesteal items, despite them all having AD, you should not be buying spell vamp items just because they offer spell vamp and AP.

Buying items to multiply the effect of spellvamp, both the value and the value of that value (via resists), will get you far more than just getting more spellvamp...which only increases flat spell vamp values.

One or two instances of spell vamp are more than enough if you want to focus on sustain. Gunblade will still achieve that while letting you burst people (The gunblade active adds more damage than WotA's 80 AP ever did...) alongside your passive to let you sustain.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

I know about multiplying it and stuff. Getting Spirit Visage and the likes of that. But taking SV quints, makes me lose damage early game. Now I just don't see that my build will be as fun as it was before.

Mielo1 votes

I used to do a Spell vamp and CR soraka, with star call and HIGH ap build it worked out great, could heal myself right qucik with a couple of star calls, or when im getting ganked by a high AD output champ instead of dieing if i landed a sttar call i'd get a boost of health and be able to run awau and live to see another day. but no they want to streamline it so their jobs will be easier, because at the end of the day that's what it's about, one less factor to the equation, easier, simpler, because hard work doesn't exist anymore

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I know, man, I know. Riot's balance team is crap.

Metro Trusts Me4 votes

As a Vladimir main (Over 150 + games this season) I am absolutely devastated that they removed will of the ancients. I do not understand why they decided to remove spell vamp if barely any mages used it in the first place.

TetsuTeito4 votes

Everyone here is like "it only works on Vladimir." Fiddlesticks, anyone?

CalZe4 votes

Ironically Ill say this: "Actually a good Ideia to take out spell vamp, cause this game was getting addictive"

Truthfully Ill say this: "You just made me lose complete interest in a game that was starting to be more and more a part of my life, by denying me my favorite akali build, which happens to be my main!"

May not be the best build for akali "spell vamp build" but it was definitely the most fun (that matters too right... isn't this still a game for people to have fun?), and now its just over... So yeah, I guess Im taking a pretty long vacation until u decide to bring spell vamp back.

It just seems ungrateful to have spent so many hours on this game just to see parts of what you like the most being taken off in the name of balance and competitive and what not... RIOT it wait balanced ... it will never be! it will be a constant change! But giving something to the players and then when they love it, just reap it away?... truly ungreatful!

And if there was a big gap between ad and ap life steal... well... now its totally fair... dont u think? with the bloodthirst giving 20%! AHAHAHAH ridiculous!

Cya,

CalZe out!

Mielo2 votes

in the end, their just removing shit so their job is EASIER, they dont care about the community or what people want. all the care about is streamlining a process so they can make the same amount of money and do less work

Dryditch3 votes

Somebody did not read the full post.

Vladimir is getting a full rework to optimize him around a lack of spell vamp.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

I did read it, mind you. I just don't see how he will be viable with a non SV kit/build.

Good Lord.

1374342 votes

Well we have to actually see what his new kit is to determine his viability. Obviously he is not going to be the exact same.

Dryditch2 votes

Spell vamp is not being removed from the game entirely--just from itemization. His kit will provide him with the necessary sustain, and it will likely push him towards a Spirit Visage rush.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Well, I think it's stupid. That removes the other few champs that could use it from not being able too, and have to dig into runes/masteries/their kits to use it now (if it's built into their kits like Morgana, etc).

WoonStruck2 votes

Its a cool idea, but it will NEVER function in a balanced state. The variability and CD of spells means that the healing from spellvamp is EXTREMELY variable between champions.

In order to make it a viable stat on most mages, you would have to over-tune it, in which case low CD, single target champions abuse it.

You can't remove both from the game, since both would break it, not just in combination like Vlad, so spellvamp will never work without being broken in league.

Vlad is being reworked btw, and plenty of itemization will cover the gaps that will be left by WotA. He won't need spellvamp to sustain anymore.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

I still think they can work on it, not just take it out completely. I know he's being worked, but I still don't see how he will work with a non SV kit.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

I still think they can work on it, not just take it out completely. I know he's being worked, but I still don't see how he will work with a non SV kit.

They will make an item like Death's Dance if they ever feel comfortable adding healing to magic damage again. Spell vamp itself will never exist again, and it shouldn't.

Vlad is probably going to heal based on missing HP, have HP scaling, and can 'donate' HP with his E, rather than just spam away 100 HP at a time for 500+ if he has 4 stacks.

He'll function, especially since he's going to receive massive early game buffs due to lack of spellvamp now.

As a Vlad main, I'm pretty confident they'll make him work, even if its a bit scary.

SnugglePuggle945 votes

Whatever. I still think its stupid they are taking it out. It should exist, but Riot doesn't want to make time to work on it, instead they want to make stupid changes to Zhonya's and what not.

Xisled1 votes

TL;DR on all SNugglePuggle94 Posts:

"Waaah, this is so stupid. Waaaah, my opinion matters. Waaah, bronze 3 builds are viable. Waaaah I don't understand power-spikes. Waaaah I'm smarter than everyone on this forum. Waaah" item 3151

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Get out of here. That is being atrociously mean.

thumbnail92 votes

The spell vamp on Vlad, Akali, Swain will have to get way stronger to compensate.

Angry Monster2 votes

May i suggest you uninstalling? It would do wonders for you and everyone else that has to deal with you.

SnugglePuggle945 votes

Excuse me? Maybe you should uninstall for even suggesting that.

If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

Excuse me? Maybe you should uninstall for even suggesting that.

If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

{quoted} Take my advice and learn to keep your mouth shut.

{quoted}

Good Lord I don't know if you actually believe that or you are just stupid.

This is literally, exactly why I posted the way I did, rather than giving an actual post in context to the topic, like I had planned to.

Thank you for proving to us all that you're just a hypocritical child, who also happens to be bad. And that no one should take anything you say seriously.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

I am neither hypocritical or a bad player. You are just a person attacking another to make you feel better and so you can look good in the eyes of others that are just like you.

"Oh this person sucks for liking something different than the norm. Oh, this person looks like he's immature for defending himself. Oh this person doesn't play well even though I bypass most of the good games they played. Why don't I hate on him for no real reason other than to be mean blah blah blah."

It's the same thing with you trolls. Always want to attack people for no good reason other than to be mean. You're probably just a 10 year old hiding behind a computer.

No use talking to any of you anymore. You're not worth it.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

I am neither hypocritical or a bad player. You are just a person attacking another to make you feel better and so you can look good in the eyes of others that are just like you.

"Oh this person sucks for liking something different than the norm. Oh, this person looks like he's immature for defending himself. Oh this person doesn't play well even though I bypass most of the good games they played. Why don't I hate on him for no real reason other than to be mean blah blah blah."

It's the same thing with you trolls. Always want to attack people for no good reason other than to be mean. You're probably just a 10 year old hiding behind a computer.

Oh the unbelievable irony of every single thing you just said. I am actually, legitimately amazed, that you might really believe any of the nonsense that you spew...

{quoted}

No use talking to any of you anymore. You're not worth it.

For the best.

MissMikasa2 votes

And I'm actually, legitimately amazed at how mean you are being to the guy (or gal). Nothing of what he said is ironic as it doesn't apply to him, but it does to you.

Why don't you leave the guy alone?

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

And I'm actually, legitimately amazed at how mean you are being to the guy (or gal). Nothing of what he said is ironic as it doesn't apply to him, but it does to you.

Why don't you leave the guy alone?

By pointing out the fact that he's doing the exact opposite of what he's telling other people not to do on here?

Telling people "not to be mean" and "don't say anything at all" and then turning around and insulting others and demanding they keep their mouths shut.

If you can't see why myself and others have responded the way that we have, then you and him both really need to have your heads checked.

MissMikasa3 votes

The difference between you and I is this: I can see that the guy is defending himself from people who were being mean, and simply telling them to stop talking is not rude or "doing the opposite." He wasn't insulting.

I think you need to get checked.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Spell vamp isn't being removed, they're removing spell vamp ITEMS and reworking the healing power into mages itself/different ways this way in the future they can actually design more sustain mage ideas such as champs/items and it's overall healthier then having 1 item that breaks vlad and no use for other champs.

If you're gonna rage without even looking at the benefits of the change you're just raging for no good reason.

Pentarina Only1 votes

item 3070 Akali item 3070

Stars Shaper3 votes

item 3146 will keep the heal passive anyway

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