Literally the only MR item a Talon has, he has <700 health, I Q > Ult > E > Auto as Lux with ~270 AP, he lives. But, you know, that's fair, right?
Or, you know, let's add an AP / CDR item that gives you an automatic barrier cast if you drop below 30% on a 90s CD. That sounds like fun, right?
Brutalitops013 votesAnd that's you asking for an item to get removed because you got played by it. Also, gonna guess you were playing Lux? If you were actually fed, there's no way he would've survived that. I've been 1-shot by a full Lux combo straight through a full MR build with Maw. Quit your complaining, it's the only real counter to AP champions that damage-building ADCs have and typically the AP champion is already fed enough to not care by the time we get it.
bad arcade kitty3 votesmaw should be gutted sorry for a bad pun
Touch My Box3 votesI agree entirely. They compare Zhonyas Hourglass to Maw of Freelo in terms of AP v AD equivalent, but I personally think Maw is unhealthy.
Most mages have a set amount of damage they can deal in their combo, and then their damage drops significantly. Either their combo can 100-0 you and they win, or they will drop you to 20% and then the AD can use sustained damage to win.
The way I see it, either Hexdrinker is an essential item for a particular class of champs and therefore all mages are unhealthy, or it is an optional choice that gives them the ability to not die which is again unhealthy. TLDR: Hexdrinker/Maw is unhealthy because it shows either mages are doing too much damage that its an essential item, or it removes the risk of AD mids dying.
Zhonyas in a 1v1 is crappy imo, because majority of the time what you see happen is you use it avoid an ultimate or similar, and then they wait it out and beat the shit out of you. You can't act in Zhonyas, so really it is just delaying your death. Teamfights it is a completely different situation, it is pretty useful.. but 1v1 its garbage compared to Maw, which not only gives a 400 minimum shield which lets you live through the burst and then gives you the sustain to heal back to atleast half health, letting you deal with their second wave of burst a few seconds later.
I think it would be healthier if the lifesteal and Spellvamp only lasted while the shield was active, but you heal the shield back before you heal your life back.
TenebrisAngelus11 votes[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nd8xLoy2,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-10T05:22:56.605+0000)
I agree entirely. They compare Zhonyas Hourglass to Maw of Freelo in terms of AP v AD equivalent, but I personally think Maw is unhealthy.
Most mages have a set amount of damage they can deal in their combo, and then their damage drops significantly. Either their combo can 100-0 you and they win, or they will drop you to 20% and then the AD can use sustained damage to win.
The way I see it, either Hexdrinker is an essential item for a particular class of champs and therefore all mages are unhealthy, or it is an optional choice that gives them the ability to not die which is again unhealthy. TLDR: Hexdrinker/Maw is unhealthy because it shows either mages are doing too much damage that its an essential item, or it removes the risk of AD mids dying.
Zhonyas in a 1v1 is crappy imo, because majority of the time what you see happen is you use it avoid an ultimate or similar, and then they wait it out and beat the shit out of you. You can't act in Zhonyas, so really it is just delaying your death. Teamfights it is a completely different situation, it is pretty useful.. but 1v1 its garbage compared to Maw, which not only gives a 400 minimum shield which lets you live through the burst and then gives you the sustain to heal back to atleast half health, letting you deal with their second wave of burst a few seconds later.
I think it would be healthier if the lifesteal and Spellvamp only lasted while the shield was active, but you heal the shield back before you heal your life back.
I think you're 100% right. There's an issue here that needs resolving. AD champions especially champions like Talon, Zed, Yasuo maybe even Pantheon have a certain combo were they can put down most of their damage down just like mages. Mages too obviously, but AD champs have much more sustained damage even after their combo, since their basics are insane and some even have basic attack buffs like Zed and Talon.
AD champions that build a Maw against and AP champion are in a clear advantage in my opinion since their stats give them enough "toughness/survivabilty" to negate most bursty mages their essential damage making mages completely harmless after their combo. That's not even counting the sustain afterwards and the fact the build path is awesome for them. Every time I build a seekers armguard early I feel like I just threw away some gold.
I know zhonyas active makes it quite op late game so we can't be tinkering to much with it but as a counter or answer to bursty AD champs early I don't think it can quite stand up to a Maw of Malmortious right now. Maybe we can find some middle ground here, where we can all be happy or add another armor/ap item that can fill this void?
Veraska3 votesI think maw is a necesarry evil right now since most burst mages like Annie and Syndra incorporate hard CC into their rotations so items like edge of night don't really mitigate their burst since you cant really use the active
Why this is okay for their to be something so hard countery is because mages have more utility then most ad mid laners so if theyre not fulfilling their best case scenario (bursting a squishy backliner) they ussually have some kind of crowd control to still be useful unlike zed or talon
Sukishoo2 votesNever?
ZenithEevee2 votesNah. In all reality, Maw isnt 100% Balanced, But what in league is? I mean, You want it to go back to its old stats? Make Olaf god tier again with his 1% Invincibility mode?
Like, lets honestly look back, When it gave you damage reversely scaling with your current health %.
I mean, given, back then it had a fixed 400 health shield, But it still had that bullshit damage.
Or should we go back to its Armor pen + AS bs?
Void Nargacuga1 votesMake Olaf god tier again with his 1% Invincibility mode?
Was that really a thing?! O_o DAMN! Must have been horrifying...
Also: Nice Flora Avatar! Twokinds is a great series and I'm glad I was shown it!
ZenithEevee1 votes[{quoted}](name=Void Nargacuga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nd8xLoy2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-12-10T05:58:53.498+0000)
Was that really a thing?! O_o DAMN! Must have been horrifying...
Also: Nice Flora Avatar! Twokinds is a great series and I'm glad I was shown it!
It was a thing through olaf's essential mechanics.
Basically, Combining old Maw's %healthed damage scaling + Olaf's passive + The combined power of Maw, Spirit visage, Olaf's W, His R's passive, and the normal combination of his old build (
Sword of the occult (Remember that old thing?) And 
, After getting him to around 10% Health, he'd basically have max AS, around 300~ AD, like a good 30/40% Life steal, And holy hell putting that thing down is harder than dealing with a fed illaoi today)
Also, combining the old AS and Lifesteal runes, he'd have around 50% Life steal and a free ticket for whatever objective he want. And since dragon back then only gave gold, He'd basically feed his team by being a better jungler at the time than Aatrox or Sejuani.
And thanks ^^ I usually do digging in deviant art for some nice pics relating to several cultural effects on me.
Void Nargacuga1 votesThat does sound horrifying... Good god. I am so glad I wasn't around for that. Joined around 5.6ish, so that was probably WAY before me I think.
Your welcome! You should check out Tom's personal DA if your ever looking for more Twokinds related pics. Lots of cool/funny stuff to find there.
Snowman Arc2 votesThe item costs 3200 gold and only grants 55 AD, 40 MR and 10% CDR. Excluding the value of the shield, the item is useless without it. The shield is there to justify the cost (otherwise if would cost 2500ish). There is a way to play around the passive, just pop it without wasting your ult, wait for it to go down and then just pop him.
It's a defensive item for a reason. The "only MR item Talon" could have had MR/level runes, so he could have 100+ MR at that point. It's just like how AP champions get to build Zhonyas to completely negate ANY damage or CC for 2.5 seconds, but that's alright, cos you go golden.
BakedLotion1 votes[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nd8xLoy2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-12-10T05:48:45.570+0000)
The item costs 3200 gold and only grants 55 AD, 40 MR and 10% CDR. Excluding the value of the shield, the item is useless without it. The shield is there to justify the cost (otherwise if would cost 2500ish). There is a way to play around the passive, just pop it without wasting your ult, wait for it to go down and then just pop him.
It's a defensive item for a reason. The "only MR item Talon" could have had MR/level runes, so he could have 100+ MR at that point. It's just like how AP champions get to build Zhonyas to completely negate ANY damage or CC for 2.5 seconds, but that's alright, cos you go golden.
but u cant do shit during zhonyas maw gives u steroids and an immediate shield, better build path, and on a lower cd
Maw is only 5% less gold efficient than zhnoyas, and is 30% more gold efficient than zhonyas when the passive activates
l Dárius l1 votesSo your telling me if you Zhonyas the Talon ult and/or w you still have no chance of winning? lol ok
Void Nargacuga2 votesWell when you have at max 19.35 MR pen from runes and 
, against 
's base MR + and 9x magic resist per level glyphs, you are not really gonna come out on top.
Your end game build was (in no particular order since OP.gg can't do that for norms): 
Talon's end game build was: 
PermabannedGaren1 votesLiterally the only MR item a Talon has, he has <700 health, I Q > Ult > E > Auto as Lux with ~270 AP, he lives. But, you know, that's fair, right?
Or, you know, let's add an AP / CDR item that gives you an automatic barrier cast if you drop below 30% on a 90s CD. That sounds like fun, right?
What level were you both?
Divine 0mega1 votesWell hexdrinker alone is toxic, but so is getting tibbers to the face. The reality is there is no balance. I would say give Ap champs a better seekers armgaurd and call it a day. A set amount of decent armor would be fine.
l Dárius l1 votes 
