Haven't seen WW in months...

The Ecdysiast·Apr 22, 2015·45 votes·4,239 views

...and now I know why. They halved the duration and doubled the cooldown on his w, and cut his ultimate damage to nearly nothing. I get that the red smite was broken on him and only him, but why in hell couldn't they have just made it so his ultimate didn't proc it?? They didn't need to make him unplayable. Sure, he's one of the junglers who can survive the epic struggle with the Raptors, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to do anything but ult.

Edit: Wow. I make twenty threads about things more important, and THIS is the one that gets attention!?! It's not that big a deal. He clearly needs work, just like Ryze is currently getting. They aren't going to do anything about it any time soon though.

In my opinion, the whole "2/3 of my immortality potion made me a wolfman despite neither of them coming from wolves" thing is a little derp. But if he MUST be a werewolf for werewolves' sake, I'm going to make a new thread with what I think would be a cool WW rework. (though it may do away with the relation to Soraka and Singed.)

62 Comments

aaronautumnApr 22, 201513 votes

check your grandma's bed, he might be there. bring lots of cookies.

The EcdysiastApr 22, 20155 votes

I find that funny only because that's the only skin I have for WW.

djjomonApr 22, 20155 votes

Former WW main here. I stopped playing him in favor of junglers who can gank pre-6 reliably. WW's still arguably my best jungler though. If you play him smart and build him properly, he's very effective... post 6. He can be useful pre 6, but it's very situational.

He's still a comfort pick for me, and I will consistently play him well. But I'm Silver, where too people don't know how to play safely while I powerfarm. So WW's shelved for now.

On his nerfs: They hurt, but not nearly as much as they look. His W is still quite strong in team fights or to push towers/secure Dragons. And his ultimate, yeah it's less useful, but he still does want he wants to do with it. WW can't 1v1 with his ult and ensure a kill anymore, unless fed. But that's fine. That would be toxic. Instead he needs a team follow up.

What he still does well: -Early clears: duh -Early Dragons: a bit slow, but easily done at level 4, if not earlier. Just gotta watch the map -Duels: not an ensured kill with his ult, but you probably won't kill him if even on levels -Teamfights: isolate a priority target, sustain off them. W in fights goes largely unnoticed, but it's helpful -Pushes towers: his waveclear isn't anything exciting, but then towers disappear. Especially with team help -Itemizing: he has his optimal build path, but he actually has a variety of itemization paths. I prefer BoRK 1st, or 3rd

What he doesn't do well: -Gank pre 6: duh -Move about the map: lacks mobility. I use MS Quints for this -Stick to targets: blue smite/MS Quints help -Early dives: even at 6, it's iffy. Much easier later on you have armor

As for his kit, it's not toxic. It's just outdated. It's not interactive, fairly binary, and also pretty easy mode. WW's predictable in what he does, and QSS nullifies his engage.

I'll elaborate on any of these points as I'm needed to.

MysterageApr 22, 20154 votes

Wow, I never knew about this nerf. I am amazed at how I can still be amazed at Riot's ability to completely fuck a champion over. Warwick

BastionKrossApr 22, 20154 votes

What happened can be described as a carpet bombing of WW. Not only did his take take several harsh nerfs, but the jungling item and enchantment he used also both got hit, all in the same patch. Riot ripped him down from his position of "God of the Jungle" and stomped him into the floor. It seems like they're content to leave him there as well.

Then again, perhaps the same as Veigar , his kit never got nerfed. They were just "compensation buffs" for nerfing his favorite items.

VenowolfApr 22, 20154 votes

[deleted]

SolaxoApr 22, 20159 votes

{quoted}

He need a rework, his it is toxic.

It wasn't toxic since this game was released.

VenowolfApr 22, 20158 votes

WW needs a emergency rework his kit is bad and unbalanced at the moment, He is a jungler but he no have a gank pre 6, a tan without no AoE dmg, Mana hunger, his W have a lot of hidden power, can use his E to run away (a skill create to chase not to run away), Ult have no counterplay if he reach a isolate enemy, but he is very reliable on his ult, also his ult make his vulberable because supress him and not reduce the dmg incoming, make him a easily target on tf, and the list goes on with devourer, challenging smite nerfs...

I'm Warwick main all the season 4 (Feral flare time) and he have a huge power, maybe so OP but now after the 4.21 patch he are overnerf, Devourer and challneging smite too, so its time to fix. He its only viable on low elos, or good to smurf bronze accounts IMO.

Has a insane sustain and is very good duelist but his weakness are more than his strenght, in low elo WW its a powerful GOD, but in high elo is a thrash, He really need a rework too fix his core problems and toxic kit.

For me He needs this to stay healthy:

-Remove W on his kit, replace with a skill that allow him gank pre 6.
-Make his E works only towards enemies (like Vayne passive, Soraka Janna)
-Add more interactive gameplay on his E (passive and active part instead a toogle)
-Turn him R into a skillshot like Sejuanis Q, Gragas E or Malphite R to add counterplay, and add A CD penalty if he uses his R to escape to minimizes his escapes chances.
-Give him a damage reduction when he supress an enemy to reduce the vulnerability.
-Fix his mana cost and mana pool.

So he needs a rework to stay in a healthy state, his problems are very evidents right now.

Rework when?

PalPlaysApr 22, 20154 votes

{quoted}

-Remove W on his kit, replace with a skill that allow him gank pre 6.

-Make his E works only towards enemies (like Vayne passive, Soraka Janna)

This would be a severe nerf to his already poor mobility.

-Add more interactive gameplay on his E (passive and active part instead a toogle)

I wouldn't mind this, good suggestion.

-Turn him R into a skillshot like Sejuanis Q, Gragas E or Malphite R to add counterplay.

Any tank could block his R, it wouldn't even be worth using.

-Give a damage reduction when he supress an enemy to reduce the vulnerability.

Just, no. His ult doesn't deal much damage as is, what you're suggesting is a targeted Bard ulti.

-A CD penalty if he uses his R to escape to minimizes his escapes chances,

How would the game tell if he was using it to escape? Again, not needed.

-Fix his mana cost and mana pool.

Warwick does not have mana problems. Once you learn mana management then you'll realize he's one of the least mana extensive champions in the game.

So he needs a rework to stay in a healthy state, his problems are very evident right now.

Yes, he does need a rework, not in the way you think though. The only thing he needs is a revert to his W's nerf. That's literally all Warwick needs man.

VenowolfApr 23, 20151 votes

Remove W on his kit, replace with a skill that allow him gank pre 6.

Make his E works only towards enemies (like Vayne passive, Soraka Janna)

This would be a severe nerf to his already poor mobility.

WTF! O_o

He is a fucking "hunter" he need to GAIN movement speed when he chase someone NOT when he run away, this change need to be a must in his E, this passive need to work like Vayne passive, only need gain the effect when move toward a weak enemy. I really hate when I duel vs enemy Warwick and he run away when is nearly to death, this not is that's hunters do, that's a prey running away from another hunter....

His W need to be removed on his kit, its thematically out of his "hunter thematic", and have a lot of hidden power, I mean 240% of atk spd steroid in max lvl, on the global team (80 + (4*40), Its better remove and put a completly new skill tha allow him gank in pre 6 lvl.

Add more interactive gameplay on his E (passive and active part instead a toogle)

I wouldn't mind this, good suggestion.

Of course that is, I play more than 200 games in ranked and know that his kit its pretty boring.

Turn his R into a skillshot like Sejuanis Q, Gragas E or Malphite R to add counterplay.

Any tank could block his R, it wouldn't even be worth using.

That its exactly the core idea of my suggestion, nice bro this time you got'cha ;)

Actually his R have zero counterplay if WW do on an isolate target, that is the main reason that turns his R into a very toxic skill (and why Warwicks its a excellent champ to leave the Bronze elo :P).

So adding some counterplay to the isolates targets makes a more healthy R for his enemies, because now they have a chance: can dodge it or miss it, in teamfights the tanks can peel the "squishy" targets from him too. can add a missile spd like Malphite R to not make a "perma dodge" skill.

Give him a damage reduction when he supress an enemy to reduce the vulnerability.

Just, no. His ult doesn't deal much damage as is, what you're suggesting is a targeted Bard ulti.

You are completly wrong in here, with the right build (Wit Ends, BtRK, Devourer with +40 stacks) He can on-shot a squishy target and severe damage and enemy tank with a simply R (R have 5 on-hit effects), so his R is a powerful tool to execute someone (specially the isolates one), the problem is that Warwick supressed him too, making very vulnerable to the hard cc and being damage during this time, so a "damage reduction" during the ult duration can help him a lot to survive when his ult is broken or in team fights.

A CD penalty if he uses his R to escape to minimizes his escapes chances

How would the game tell if he was using it to escape? Again, not needed.

Easily, If he DON'T HIT ANYONE, making his ult into a skillshot. its a free cast (he can use in the same way of Malphite, pass through walls or escape etc). So if he hit an enemy champ his CD are reduce X seconds. So a reward if you hit (Penalty if you miss)

Fix his mana cost and mana pool.

Warwick does not have mana problems. Once you learn mana management then you'll realize he's one of the least mana extensive champions in the game.

A 720 of mana at lvl 18... he and Poppy are the 2 champs with the lowest mana pool in all the whole game...

Every Q cost 110 of mana, and his R 150 mana a 36% of his total mana with only 2 skills... If u don't build FH, you suffer all the game with the mana.

So he needs a rework to stay in a healthy state, his problems are very evident right now.

Yes, he does need a rework, not in the way you think though. The only thing he needs is a revert to his W's nerf. That's literally all Warwick needs man.

His W obviusly need to be removed of his kit, he needs a rework in the way that i think, he need to be fixed in all the points that I make...

I'm main Warwick its my fav champ by far, mi SN is in honor to him, but his kit actually its very unbalanced, and needs a "emegercy rework" a lot of evidents problems...

PalPlaysApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted} WTF! O_o

He is a fucking "hunter" he need to GAIN movement speed when he chase someone NOT when he run away, this change need to be a must in his E, this passive need to work like Vayne passive, only need gain the effect when move toward a weak enemy. I really hate when I duel vs enemy Warwick and he run away when is nearly to death, this not is that's hunters do, that's a prey running away from another hunter....

His W need to be removed on his kit, its thematically out of his "hunter thematic", and have a lot of hidden power, I mean 240% of atk spd steroid in max lvl, on the global team (80 + (4*40), Its better remove and put a completly new skill tha allow him gank in pre 6 lvl.

His W is my favorite part of Warwick's kit. I would rather his Q steal movement speed (allowing ganks pre-6 and changes to E).

Turn him (his) R into a skillshot like Sejuanis Q, Gragas E or Malphite R to add counterplay.

It would still need to be fast. Otherwise WW doesn't have much to close the gap.

Actually his R have zero counterplay if WW do on an isolate target, that is the main reason that turns his R into a very toxic skill (and why Warwicks its a excellent champ to leave the Bronze elo :P).

Yeah, but that's what I love about him. If he singles you out, well, don't let him single you out.

So adding some counterplay to the isolates targets makes a more healthy R for his enemies, because now they have a chance: can dodge it or miss it, in teamfights the tanks can peel the "squishy" targets from him too. can add a missile spd like Malphite R to not make a "perma dodge" skill.

So basically in a teamfight, he can only use it against tanks...

Give him a damage reduction when he supress an enemy to reduce the vulnerability.

You are completly wrong in here, with the right build (Wit Ends, BtRK, Devourer with +40 stacks) He can on-shot a squishy target and severe damage and enemy tank with a simply R (R have 5 on-hit effects), so his R is a powerful tool to execute someone (specially the isolates one), the problem is that Warwick supressed him too, making very vulnerable to the hard cc and being damage during this time, so a "damage reduction" during the ult duration can help him a lot to survive when his ult is broken or in team fights.

Yes, I was wrong here. I thought that you meant giving the target of his ult a damage reduction from all other sources. Now I see what you mean, however, I still don't think he needs it. By managing your stacks, his ult can heal him enough to be considered a damage reduction.

A CD penalty if he uses his R to escape to minimizes his escapes chances

Easily, If he doesn't HIT ANYONE, since his ult would be a skillshot. (he can use in the same way of Malphite, pass through walls or escape etc). So if he hits an enemy champ its CD is reduced by X seconds. So a reward if you hit (Penalty if you miss)

So, it's basically Kha'Zix's E, except it causes him to latch on to the enemy he lands on...

Fix his mana cost and mana pool.

A 720 of mana at lvl 18... he and Poppy are the 2 champs with the lowest mana pool in all the whole game...

Every Q cost 110 of mana, and his R 150 mana a 36% of his total mana with only 2 skills... If u don't build FH, you suffer all the game with the mana.

You don't need his Q in the Jungle, and Frozen Heart should be bought almost every game. If you just use his W to clear the Jungle (it's all he needs), then there's no issue. He's MEANT to have a limited mana pool, since HP is never a problem for him. Give WW a bigger mana pool, and you'll see nerfs to the rest of his kit.

Suggested Change:

Hungering Strike: Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 Mana Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100

Active: Warwick swipes at a target enemy, dealing magic damage equal to a percentage of the target's maximum health, additional bonus damage based on his ability power, and steals 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30% Movement Speed for 2 seconds. Warwick heals himself for 80% of the damage dealt.

Hungering Strike gains 100 more range (500 total) if used on an enemy below 50% Health.

Hunter's Call: Cooldown: 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12

Active: For 8 seconds, Warwick increases his attack speed and increases the attack speeds of all allies within range by half as much.

Attack Speed: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60%

Blood Scent: Mana Cost: 20

Passive: Enemy champions below 60% HP leave behind a scent trail for 6 seconds that only Warwick can "see." He gains bonus movement speed while following the scent. Movement Speed: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50%

Active: Warwick briefly forgets the scent as he listens intently for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 seconds, gaining "Tremor Sense" in a 1000 range.

Infinite Duress: Range: 1000

Active: Warwick leaps to a target location and attacks the enemy champion he lands on. Channeling for 1.5 seconds, he suppresses the target for 1.8 seconds and deals magic damage 5 times in 0.3 seconds intervals, healing Warwick for 50% (there's your damage reduction) of the damage dealt. Each damaging strike applies on-hit effects, including life steal and Eternal Thirst.

Should he miss, Infinite Duress is put on a 55 / 45 / 35 second cooldown.

VenowolfApr 23, 20151 votes

Its basically his same kit... The same kit of live ww. He need a REWORK not the same boring kit....

His passive can keept like the same, only tweaks numbers or increase the cap of stacks etc.

His Q needs a huge mana reduction, also a CD and dmg reduction, its better turn into a spammable skill that cause on-hit effects and have a clearly damage (Separating the offensive (AP) and defensive (max health/armor/mr) builds leads to a much more balanceable skill.). So basically your bread and butter “click a unit and heal some” ability.

His W need to be REMOVED of his kit and be replaced with a completly new skill, Some that alLow him to gank in pre 6, CLEAR, and add presence on tf. Something like this

Hunter Howl: A PBAOE (Point Blink Area of Effect )terrify away from the center of the effect (NOT from WW; subtle distinction). 0.75s duration on the terrify and then a follow up slow, the duration of which scales with skill rank. This is how you gank pre-6 and why the enemy cannot ignore you in team fights. CD 12-8, mana cost 50 flat. Damage 70-190 + 0.6 AP.

His E needs a passive/active part and works only if he run toward enemies, the passive can work like the actual, his active part can be a completly new skill, somthing that help him to catch his enemies too and synergyzes with the E passive.

His R think Sejuani Q, but supress first enemy target hit for 2.5s while attacking them 6 times. Spell has its own base damage and AP ratio (150/250/350 + 0.9 AP), but also procs your passive 6 times(on-hit effect).

I really dislike that this can now be used as an escape, but tune CDs such that it really hurts when you do that (think Malphite ult). Otherwise this is a straightforward improvement on live WW ult. The enemy gets counterplay (stand in the way), it is much clearer what happens, and when WW does hit, he hits much harder. Even a tank will get seriously hurt. Plus 2.5s supress!

I’ll potentially do a thing where the CD is halved when you actually hit this to really reward in-combat usage. WW also gets a 20% damage reduction shield while he is in this ult. Yeah. That’s pretty sweet.

PalPlaysApr 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Its basically his same kit... The same kit of live ww. He need a REWORK not the same boring kit....

His passive can keept like the same, only tweaks numbers or increase the cap of stacks etc.

His Q needs a huge mana reduction, also a CD and dmg reduction, its better turn into a spammable skill that cause on-hit effects and have a clearly damage (Separating the offensive (AP) and defensive (max health/armor/mr) builds leads to a much more balanceable skill.). So basically your bread and butter “click a unit and heal some” ability.

His W need to be REMOVED of his kit and be replaced with a completly new skill, Some that alLow him to gank in pre 6, CLEAR, and add presence on tf. Something like this

His E needs a passive/active part and works only if he run toward enemies, the passive can work like the actual, his active part can be a completly new skill, somthing that help him to catch his enemies too and synergyzes with the E passive.

His R think Sejuani Q, but supress first enemy target hit for 2.5s while attacking them 6 times. Spell has its own base damage and AP ratio (150/250/350 + 0.9 AP), but also procs your passive 6 times(on-hit effect).

I really dislike that this can now be used as an escape, but tune CDs such that it really hurts when you do that (think Malphite ult). Otherwise this is a straightforward improvement on live WW ult. The enemy gets counterplay (stand in the way), it is much clearer what happens, and when WW does hit, he hits much harder. Even a tank will get seriously hurt. Plus 2.5s supress!

I’ll potentially do a thing where the CD is halved when you actually hit this to really reward in-combat usage. WW also gets a 20% damage reduction shield while he is in this ult. Yeah. That’s pretty sweet.

You do realize that what you suggested for his W is better than Hecarim's ult, right? What you just suggested is ridiculously broken. Looking at your profile tells me that you're not even level 30. Please come back once you have a better understanding of the game. Warwick has weaknesses (like no ganks pre-6 and invades) to counteract his strengths. What he needs are one or two SLIGHT buffs to be relevant again.

Warwick is not meant to nuke people, he's meant to deal sustained damage while staying healthy in a teamfight. If you want a Tank-Jungler who can peel, play Hecarim, Sejuani, Amumu, Skarner, or Maokai.

VenowolfApr 27, 20151 votes

I'm Platinium 2 player: http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/LAN/Fenwick

And u DON'T UNDERSTAND its a brief fear in a PBAOE so its very easy to dodge it, its like Soraka Q but on the center enemies affliecte suffer the fear, not the hecarim ult that all fear around of Hecarim, So understand first the idea then post your doubts ;)

PalPlaysApr 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm Platinium 2 player: http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/LAN/Fenwick

And u DON'T UNDERSTAND its a brief fear in a PBAOE so its very easy to dodge it, its like Soraka Q but on the center enemies affliecte suffer the fear, not the hecarim ult that all fear around of Hecarim, So understand first the idea then post your doubts ;)

It's extremely hard to decipher your ideas when they are presented in such poor English. Now, I'm not insulting you; as I assume that it's not your first language. If you are indeed a Plat, why do you bother commenting on a level 11 account?

I took time to understand your meaning for the new W, and I STILL disagree with it. It isn't hard to sweetspot attacks, and this would still rival Hecarim's ult because it has range and a lower cooldown. Not only that, but it challenges Sejuani's ult as well. Once again, Warwick's identity is that of a tank that has immense sustain at the cost of CC. You cannot start tacking on Crowd Control and expect that sustain to stick around. His current W is crucial in teamfights and keeping his damage (and thus: health) constant.

VenowolfApr 28, 20151 votes

Because inn NA Boards u only can use NA accounts so I'm use my NA account, yep the english ist no my first language... But most of the people understand my ideas, so I don't worry with that about "Poor english" . I don't know if a sweetspot its a overpowered vecause the Swain sweetspoot for me its normal...

PalPlaysApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because inn NA Boards u only can use NA accounts so I'm use my NA account, yep the english ist no my first language... But most of the people understand my ideas, so I don't worry with that about "Poor english" . I don't know if a sweetspot its a overpowered vecause the Swain sweetspoot for me its normal...

Huh, that's dumb that you need to use a NA account on the NA boards... RIOT PLEASE!

A ranged fear, even if it needs to be sweet spotted, would be in direct competition with other Junglers. It would remove much of their uniqueness. As for the English, trust me, it does matter. Your grammar can determine whether people take you seriously or not. Before I knew that it wasn't your first language: your responses (combined with your level) made me think that you were some newb who doesn't know anything about balance.

I still think that whatever rework WW gets won't be too far from where he is now. I can see the Q and W being reworked, but his E is part of what Riot wants him to be.

VenowolfApr 28, 20151 votes

Actually I'm in plat 2 in promo to plat 1, and have nearly of 3 years of playing, I recently create this account to share some of my ideas here in NA boards, because my main account is not in NA, I received some red post in this 3 months, so I know that my ideas have a good value, and also have some post with more than 100 upvotes too. I know that my english is not good at all, but like I said before the people understand me most of the time ;)

Warwick rework has been posted yet, so I share with you if u don't know abot the topic:

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/232dan/warwick_rework_teaser_e_boomerang_move_block_from/

BluePolarizerApr 22, 20153 votes

k so if he has no counterplay, a bronze WW should be able to beat any diamond jungler.

Well, that's what no counterplay means - regardless of skill, WW should win every time.

So why are you not diamond 1 yet?

Mikal PikalApr 22, 20158 votes

Did you even read his post? I found that he set forth reasoning for his opinion that WW is toxic. He never said WW was OP and lacked counterplay. In fact, he said the opposite that his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. Unless you responded to the wrong post, please refrain from commenting and downvoting without reading the actual post first.

VenowolfApr 23, 20151 votes

Thanks bro, you explain better my answer ;)

khorneyApr 22, 20153 votes

Well his ult does barely any damage . with the nerf and with the removal of deathfire grasp . it's useless . literally just meant to suppress for the team not for you

SleepyLionCubApr 23, 20153 votes

His ult should do physical damage.

It's so weird that it does magic damage for multiple reasons.

He gets bonus lifesteal while his ult is active. BUT IT DOES MAGIC DAMAGE SO THIS DOES NOTHING
It scales with AD, like... a lot
It is supposed to be a flurry of clawed attacks, why would that be magic?

Bears Dont CareApr 22, 20152 votes

Riot made it quite clear they don't particularly care about WW right now. He is so far down the priority list I would not expect him to see a rework until next year. If ever.

LilxPaprikaApr 22, 20152 votes

Raptors epic struggle? Imo its not that hard, the tough skin mastery so good too. Worst comes to worst skip it and do scuttle if you have a way to stun it. You may want to check this out: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/33d3am/dynamic_lich_bane_idea A buff to lich bane as per this recommendation would help a lot of hybrid fighters who have a hard time finding their place Evelynn Jax Sion Poppy Skarner Kayle Warwick

Here's an example of a viable build on Warwick using lichbane: item 3100 item 3124 item 3146 item 3065 Since Warwick has no cc beyond his ult gunblade's active slow would work well. The lichbane could also be able to spellvamp but only off A protion of the damage like say off of equation #1 worth of the damage and at a 50% reduced effectiveness. That way gunblade will belong more on hybrid champs as I believe it was originally intended to work. Or get frozen heart mercs and warmogs with item 3116 item 3100 item 3091 since he has no cc rylais could work nicely on him. Or mallet to slow: item 3124 item 3022

Could slso be a nice option for ap bruisers who don't necessarily stack ap like Gragas Mordekaiser Elise

Not to mention a slew of supports who may want a way to contribute damage especially if they go item 3069 instead of item 3092 . like say on bard who doesn't have good ap scaling.

Not saying it would solve all of Warwick's ailments but it would be a good place to start

PalPlaysApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Raptors epic struggle? Imo its not that hard, the tough skin mastery so good too. Worst comes to worst skip it and do scuttle if you have a way to stun it.

Not many people realize this but, adding up the small Rapters damage, they actually do more than the large Rapter. Kill them first (they only ever have 250 HP) then destroy the large one.

VenowolfApr 28, 20151 votes

Well I always kill the little one first, but on Warwick is not neccesary used the "tough skin" mastery is better a 21 9 0 without use jungle masteries on defense, because he have perma sustain, the best way like a plat player, is start with the Krugz and smite soon, then go red, and after the red, to the crab, all this with the Krug buff, after the crab u go to "counter jungle", yes this is the most important part like a ww jungle, so ww don't need to use the red potions on the jungle so u can use to a early duel, most of the time I made the enemy jungle waste his flash or kill him. If he escape or run away you can took his Frog, wolfs and if u have lucky the blue buff, WW is too strong in duels, but very weak on ganks early specially pre-6, so the best way is invade the enemy jungle early to avoid him gank. With enemies junglers like Udyr or Xin u can have some troubles if they have the red potions avaible, but you only need to check this and after that leap to him, you only need to measure your possibilities to win and dive to him or not, with the time u better in this "route".

After that you can do the raptors without any problem.

PalPlaysApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well I always kill the little one first, but on Warwick is not neccesary used the "tough skin" mastery is better a 21 9 0 without use jungle masteries on defense, because he have perma sustain, the best way like a plat player, is start with the Krugz and smite soon, then go red, and after the red, to the crab, all this with the Krug buff, after the crab u go to "counter jungle", yes this is the most important part like a ww jungle, so ww don't need to use the red potions on the jungle so u can use to a early duel, most of the time I made the enemy jungle waste his flash or kill him. If he escape or run away you can took his Frog, wolfs and if u have lucky the blue buff, WW is too strong in duels, but very weak on ganks early specially pre-6, so the best way is invade the enemy jungle early to avoid him gank. With enemies junglers like Udyr or Xin u can have some troubles if they have the red potions avaible, but you only need to check this and after that leap to him, you only need to measure your possibilities to win and dive to him or not, with the time u better in this "route".

After that you can do the raptors without any problem.

It's entirely dependent on the enemy Jungler. I usually start with the Machete and a Ward. He has no mana problems and well...sustain.

VenowolfApr 28, 20151 votes

Wrong... Warwick mana pool and mana cost are "excessive" with Poppy are the 2 champs with less amount of mana. And not depends at all of the enemy because he can beat any other jungler, but Xin and Udyr are "decent" duelist that can put troubles on him.

PalPlaysApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wrong... Warwick mana pool and mana cost are "excessive" with Poppy are the 2 champs with less amount of mana. And not depends at all of the enemy because he can beat any other jungler, but Xin and Udyr are "decent" duelist that can put troubles on him.

If you know how to play the champion, you will NEVER have mana issues with him. Don't use Q in the Jungle (farm with W) and only use it to finish off a foe. It makes him stop for an extended period of time, allowing the enemy time to escape. You don't know what mana problems are until you play Amumu, who almost always needs blue: regardless of your mana management.

Amumu only has a slightly bigger pool than Warwick, but ALL of Amumu's abilities have bigger costs than his:

Bandage Toss costs 10 more mana at ALL ranks
Despair exceeds Hunter's Call in cost after 4 seconds (while Hunter's Call still has 2 more seconds to go)
Tantrum has a mana cost of 35 (thus exceeding WW's free-to-toggle Blood Scent)
At rank 1 the two ults cost the same, rank 2 CoTSM costs 25 more, and rank 3 it costs 50 more

Amumu may have a bigger mana pool than Warwick, but Warwick has better base mana regeneration. Once again, Warwick's mana pool is the least stressed of ANY champion if you know how to use him. His clear is incredibly cheap in the Jungle, saving most of his pool for ganking. You should almost always back after ganking anyway.

Now, if you say that I cannot compare their kits, let me just say this.

Warwick has better focused damage, so in a teamfight he can lock down the ADC easily. Amumu has very poor focused damage, so he RELIES on his teammates to finish what he starts. Curse of the Sad Mummy does not keep the ADC from attacking (Infinite Duress does).

Their clear speeds are about the same, however Warwick will have more mana and HP coming out of the Jungle (he doesn't need abilities to clear, Amumu does). Amumu also has to take pots and Ranger's Trailblazer to sustain his clears. Oh, and I'm assuming that they are both using ONLY W to clear, since that's all they SHOULD ever use (unless they have Blue, obviously).

Amumu does have better AoE damage, but can go OoM if the teamfight goes long. He needs mana for his only gapcloser, so cleaning up might be hard. Besides having a targetted gapcloser, Warwick also has one that is completely free (Blood Scent); cleaning up is easy considering he stays healthy throughout the fight.

While Amumu has MUCH better pre-6 ganks, Warwick can secure an early Dragon at level 3 or 4. Amumu will take a lot of damage to Dragon at any and all stages of the game.

They are both weak to early invades, but later on Warwick has a better 1v1.

Now, I'm kind of insinuating that Warwick is strictly better than Amumu. This would be true (and was true) until the meta allowed tanks with teamfighting kits to become relevant again. AoE damage and CC which is seen on Amumu, Gragas, Sejuani, Zac, Malphite, Sion, or Maokai is favored right now, and teams are picking and banning accordingly. Warwick, Skarner, or Shyvana don't have this, which is why the current "tank meta" has left them out of the Jungle (Shyvana is instead a toplane monster).

VenowolfApr 29, 20151 votes

I built Frozen Heart on WW so I don't have mana issues after that, but Warwick mana pool its very low...

PalPlaysApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I built Frozen Heart on WW so I don't have mana issues after that, but Warwick mana pool its very low...

It's low, but once again (if you read my post at all) his mana costs are extremely low when compared to other champions. He also has good mana regen, so you're getting a smaller mana pool in return for NEVER having to worry about sustaining HP.

VenowolfApr 30, 20152 votes

I don't talk about his sustain, I know is perfect, the mana pool is limited, so FH fix this IMO, Devourer need a buff to put ww in a better spot.

PalPlaysMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't talk about his sustain, I know is perfect, the mana pool is limited, so FH fix this IMO, Devourer need a buff to put ww in a better spot.

Yeah, I'll agree that Devourer needs a buff. I think it should start out at 35 stacks (10 more than it does now) and give 4 stacks for kills and assists.

AFK PushApr 22, 20152 votes

Sadly he has always been a one trick pony. Ganking pre6 has always been meh, and now that they nerfed its damage he kind of is hanging with the lot of Kassadin and Olaf imo.

DarkFaun FortesApr 22, 20152 votes

I mained Warwick jungle, Now I main Fiddlesticks support. All because his Nerf I had to completely re-learn a role and several champs all just to find something I was remotely as good with. I actually cried the day I saw it on the PBE.

I'm a furry and My Fersona is a hyena, Hyena Warwick skin is Literally why I got started in this game!!!! He was all I played at first. My friend said he would gift me the skin and champ if I would learn to play so we could eventually Duo ranked.

While now I can play many champs. Due to my Bias favoritism I spent more time with WW so I logically was the best with him. I use to win over half my games with him, now I'm lucky if I win one out of 4.

I was Silver 3 before his nerf, Now I am Silver 5. As A past Warwick main I feel like his Re-work cant come sooner. Right now, playing him at all makes me feel depressed and useless. My Ult cant kill, My W makes me clear slower, and really, now I can only play him Tank, when I use to play him assassin! I would spam his laugh after every kill and enjoyed playing him even when I lost. Now As A tank I can spam laugh when they try to kill me and fail, but It doesn't feel as good getting the same number of assists that I use to have in kills on average.

RIOT you broke my Champion, my Hero, my Escape... Now I only play with friends, because we can do it together. Playing alone doesn't feel good unless you can get into the character. I dont know about you, but if I was a Hero I wouldn't wanna be useless in a fight.

TheI3igDaddyApr 28, 20152 votes

WW has a binary kit and that nerf was the final nail in the coffin that Riot's balance team used. WW is in the process of getting reworked, and I assume Riot's tired of him suddenly popping up out of nowhere and abusing items (see: Feral Flare, Devourer) because he just synergies too damn well with them.

VenowolfApr 29, 20151 votes

Warwick was overnerfed...

TheI3igDaddyApr 29, 20151 votes

That may be true, but with his rework on the horizon, I think Riot just wants him to lay low until it's finished.

VenowolfApr 29, 20151 votes

The rework will be delayed again, ZenonTheStoic put taht ina red post a few days ago.

TheI3igDaddyApr 29, 20151 votes

Oh, lovely. sarcasm dripping

It's not like reworks are probably the most important part of Season 5 or anything, considering the health of the game.

I only hope that whatever's getting in the way of the rework, it's much more important. And aside from updating the lore, or east coast servers, I don't know what else trumps it.

MrBuffingtonApr 22, 20151 votes

but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to do anything but ult.

That's kind of what WW's always been about, that's what 420 Weedwick was; Skirmisher's + Ult = instagib. The nerfs were really severe, don't get me wrong, but I'm much more in favor of a rework than buffs for WW right now; his kit has always been kind of binary. I've had two WW's in recent games, one against me (who destroyed me) and one on my team (who destroyed the enemy team); he can still be successful if played well, it's just a bit more difficult.

BluePolarizerApr 22, 20152 votes

"This champ destroyed me in low elo. It must be OP. Couldn't be that I just need to learn the game and learn the counters."

MrBuffingtonApr 22, 20151 votes

I didn't say WW was OP, I said he can still be successful. His win rate hovers around 50% at all elos, according to lolking (52% in plat+ according to champion.gg)

LilxPaprikaApr 28, 20151 votes

On second thought my buff to lich bane wouldn't effect Warwick I just realized his q does up to 16% of enemy's HP. As such you don't need any ap 16% is huge. Why do they even bother have it scale with ap if it can do up to 16% of enemies HP. Facepalm nvm. Crossed out

Spellvamp could still be practical its too bad he doesn't have any other ap scaling elsewhere. I think the portion of the damage they nerfed on his ult they could have instead been replaced ap scaling. Infinite Duress was changed: Damage reduced to 150 / 250 / 350 (+200% bonus AD) from 250 / 325 / 420 (+200% bonus AD).

Or like 200% ad + 50% ap (cap at 100 DMG). Then buff rageblade passive to give it 20% spellvamp when your below 50% health ult someone and q them you'll get considerable hp back.

As such aiming for like 150 ap would be enough to revert the nerfs to his ult.

Its true that you won't apply on hit effects from ap items, unless you get nashor's tooth or just the first hit with lichbane.

Anyways that's if you wanna make Warwick more hybrid oriented. Warwick's kit has a lot of potential and can be steered in a lot of directions.

Bears Dont CareApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

On second thought my buff to lich bane wouldn't effect Warwick I just realized his q does up to 16% of enemy's HP. Spellvamp could still be practical its too bad he doesn't have any other ap scaling elsewhere. I think the portion of the damage they nerfed on his ult they could have scale with like 25% ap instead.

His Q is an OR matter. So he will almost always use his base damage unless the target has more HP than the base damage he would deal.

A Fairies FateApr 29, 20151 votes

I don't see him much anymore as well but I must say the only thing I really "dislike" about him is the fact ganks pre-6 are really meh not worth the time

DryditchApr 29, 20151 votes

I thought this was going to be a post about a WW disappearing into the Jungle for months during a game. As if you were still in the game, and your Jungler was just farming forever and ever.

Impish YordleMay 1, 20151 votes

They nerfed him out of their inability to make a balanced item. Feral Flare was fine on him so why did they fail so hard with Challenger/Devourer? To be honest I've never really used him in the jungle and kept going top lane instead. I can't do that anymore because he got nerfed for an item and a summoner spell I don't use there anyway...

VenowolfMay 2, 20151 votes

He was overnerfed