Pyke should not be a "Support" (don't hit his mid lane, hit his bot)

The Ecdysiast··5 votes·1,663 views

From this patch's notes: "League's assassin support has become a problematic mid laner despite relatively reasonable performances in bot lane. The nerfs below are all tailored to hit mid Pyke hardest, whether by the strengths mid laners need (protection against burst magic damage; waveclear) or by the strengths Pyke has an easier time accruing in mid (level scalings)."

ASSASSIN SUPPORT is an oxymoron. Simply boosting team gold further than a kill should normally give does not make a champion a support. Changes should be made to take him out of bottom lane and place him mid/jungle instead. Take away the gold boost and adjust his scaling. His kit is cool and fun to play, that's for sure. But he is not a support.

The fact nothing in his kit is supportive to the point that they had to add the gold share in the first place is testament to this. He's a good assassin. He's fun to play and his kit is mostly coherent. But that doesn't make him a good support. All it does is screw up a team comp because the team is missing one of the three support subclasses by having him where an actual support should be.

17 Comments

Kaioko6 votes

The traditional supports are dead and I highly doubt any new ones will be released any time soon. While it is a lot different of a playstyle and probably doesn't make everyone happy -- supports are going towards becoming more play-makers than before. It fixes the whole issue of no one wanting to play that role.

I understand many ADCs want more enchanter play-style supports, but even with the buff supports will remain the way they are currently with the top picks being Ali, Tresh, Pyke and Leona.

Moonscourge1 votes

{quoted}

The traditional supports are dead and I highly doubt any new ones will be released any time soon. While it is a lot different of a playstyle and probably doesn't make everyone happy -- supports are going towards becoming more play-makers than before. It fixes the whole issue of no one wanting to play that role.

I understand many ADCs want more enchanter play-style supports, but even with the buff supports will remain the way they are currently with the top picks being Ali, Tresh, Pyke and Leona.

What do you mean they are dead? And how do you define traditional support? Champions that deal 0 damage? There are a lot of those. The big play champs will obviously stay the most played, they are the most exciting but also very volatile.

Kaioko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NUNhgWjn,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-19T17:00:10.949+0000)

What do you mean they are dead? And how do you define traditional support? Champions that deal 0 damage? There are a lot of those. The big play champs will obviously stay the most played, they are the most exciting but also very volatile.

When I say traditional supports I'm talking about the ones we used to play back in season 2 & 3 (if you've been around that long). The only real play making support at the time was Blitz which ironically had a super high play rate. Then they released Tresh and the support role finally got attention both in regular and pro play. They however continued with the enchanter supports for a while with Nami and the like and creating/buffing items that would help that class.

Ultimately people got bored of that class but because they were so much stronger than other supports not having an enchanter on your team with a hyperscaling ADC was putting yourself at a disadvantage. They've since changed that and since then people that actually queue up for supports has absolutely skyrocketed (occasionally beating out top and JG). Thanks to that, queue times were fixed, fewer people are being auto-filled and support players actually enjoy the role for the most part.

They will buff enchanters and enchanter items to make them viable again but ultimately, the enchanters will never be the primary support class and any further released supports will be supports like Rakan, Ali, Leona and Pyke.

The thigh guy5 votes

Pyke in general was a mistake. And until they gut him, he is going to continue to be a problem.

They only made this champion to appease the whiny mid lanes who get autofilled because there are so fing many of them.

FOR JUSTICE5 votes

a supports main job is either:

set up kills sacrifice for carries

but all supports work to get their carry fed. remember, death is the best CC, as long as theyre dead my adc gets free farm with absolutely 0 contest [poppy-wink]

xDogMeatx1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NUNhgWjn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-19T16:29:44.169+0000)

a supports main job is either:

set up kills sacrifice for carries

but all supports work to get their carry fed. remember, death is the best CC, as long as theyre dead my adc gets free farm with absolutely 0 contest [poppy-wink]

WRONG DEATH ISNT THE BEST CC WANT TO THE BEST CC OF THEM ALL? IT IS THE LEGENDARY CC CALLED.... LAG OR DC. IT CAUSES MORE FEED THAN YOU THINK IT DOES. LEL IT CAUSES YOUR TEAMMATES TO REPORT A LAG SPIKED PLAYER FOR FEEDING AT WRONG TIMES THEREFORE IS BETTER THAN DEATH.

Dorans Pants4 votes

mage-supports are wrong assassins-supports are wrong everything that does dmg is wrong being independent as support is wrong

As long as your main goal isn´t sucking off your carries throughout the entire game you are not supporting. /s

I don´t get why people are so hellbent on limiting the support role to being the ~~adc´s ~~ everyone´s bitch again.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Agreed. Pyke to me seems like a disgrace to EVERY other champion in the game (besides Neeko) because they all are just ONE type of champion, not a mix of two. But I agree, he's more of an assassin with a stupid gold sharing mechanic and a horrible 50% health execute.

He shouldn't have made it to live, just like Neeko.

OtterlyLost3 votes

I dont even care if he's a support. Just cut his fucking healing late game. He is one of the safest assassins in the game because, assuming he survives the initial engage, he will get to escape botched assassinations at no cost to him at all cause, once he's out of sight, he'll just heal it up and get to try again. This is the problematic part of him for me.

Escheton1 votes

{quoted}

I dont even care if he's a support. Just cut his fucking healing late game. He is one of the safest assassins in the game because, assuming he survives the initial engage, he will get to escape botched assassinations at no cost to him at all cause, once he's out of sight, he'll just heal it up and get to try again. This is the problematic part of him for me.

He has healing because it's impossible for him to get more health. He is a burst or be bursted champion.

They already nerfed his tank build. Now they are nerfing his off-lanes.

Master tier Pyke mains have already stopped playing him. It's a pity.

Malix Farwin2 votes

Saying Assassin Support is an oxymoron is like saying the same thing to Mage and Tank Supports. Assassin is an archtype just like any other version of supports out there.

Malix Farwin1 votes

The problems with pyke is with pyke, not his designated role. They said a long time ago if he ever became used too often in solo lanes they would nerf it.

Saevum1 votes

After or before the paychecks?

Butterwood1 votes

I'm fine with him being used as a support, but I'm waiting for his damage to be nerfed to the extent that Shaco's has been. He's got great mobility and CC and his kit is very interesting, but his damage (especially his execute %) is too high. Once that is nerfed I think you start to see two things - 1, people use him less because "he sucks now, and 2, the people that do use him play a bit safer.

Moonscourge1 votes

{quoted}

I'm fine with him being used as a support, but I'm waiting for his damage to be nerfed to the extent that Shaco's has been. He's got great mobility and CC and his kit is very interesting, but his damage (especially his execute %) is too high. Once that is nerfed I think you start to see two things - 1, people use him less because "he sucks now, and 2, the people that do use him play a bit safer.

It's easy enough to dodge it really shouldn't be nerfed much more than already. You can't really play him safe anymore since the tank build is unviable now either.

Butterwood1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NUNhgWjn,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-12-19T17:08:03.105+0000)

It's easy enough to dodge it really shouldn't be nerfed much more than already. You can't really play him safe anymore since the tank build is unviable now either.

His Q, sure, but his dash isn't. If I'm in the bot lane then I'm banning him until his damage gets nerfed. If the person playing Pyke is actually good at him, you're forced to play behind the river regardless of whether or not you're winning lane now due to his base dmg burst.

Moonscourge1 votes

Talking about his ult.

His E is also super easy to avoid until he has more lethality and movement speed from it, idk what you're talking about. Plus, you can easily sidestep it unless he hit the Q before.

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