Vayne nerfs on PBE

D357R0Y3R·Apr 30, 2019·13 votes·9,636 views

went ahead and patched PBE instead of waiting surrenderat20 info

https://i.gyazo.com/69360ed0c4e2926e5cb96ab17c2592e8.jpg

W damage reduced from 4-14% max hp to 4-10% max hp

https://i.gyazo.com/10cd1ad3aa6e6f30d0fba1d93f0bf823.jpg

Q damage increased from 50/55/60/65/70% to 55/60/65/70/75% AD

https://i.gyazo.com/622c86419663d831ecef4120565e1b0a.jpg

R bonus AD increased from 20/30/40 to 20/40/60 R Q reduction rescaled from 50% to 30/40/50%

overall a nerf with nerf the on hit build is getting hit hard

and this will make W max vayne weaker than crit vayne crit vayne is only relevant in late game

on hit vayne is VERY strong in mid game, and now vayne will be worse in mid game

69 Comments

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 201918 votes

fixes her for the moment, until one day she inevitably gets get buffed back to what she is right now.

weve been here before. she flips between broken op tier and shit tier with buffs and nerfs like this.

how about some actual fundamental changes, like tieing her w to a mechanic with counterplay? like making her e not have a knockback unless the target connects with a wall?

anything that actually adds something to her kit that you as her opponent can outplay, instead of making you only win by outstatting her.

D357R0Y3RApr 30, 201910 votes

instead of making you only win by outstatting her.

you win against vayne by outranging her

this exists since a long time now, it has become odd thta people ARE STILL refusing to learn

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 201913 votes

{quoted}

you win against vayne by outranging her

range is a stat.

youre just making my point. you win against vayne by out picking her in champ select and not by outplaying her.

adding counterplay to her kit would maybe even not make her complete aids to fight even when shes anything but a trashcan champion.

D357R0Y3RApr 30, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:08:41.033+0000)

range is a stat.

OK MISTER SHERLOCK

You can call range a stat, it doesn't change jackshit

outranging vayne doesn't mean outstating her, it means playing smarter than her vayne's small range puts her in danger unlike most other adcs, so if you know that vayne will come in 550 range to deal damage, you can already forsee where she's going to go in a fight and WHEN

which means that she will die the second she comes in range of nautilus/ryze/draven many meta picks right now

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 201910 votes

{quoted}

OK MISTER SHERLOCK

You can call range a stat, it doesn't change jackshit

means outranging vayne is stat checking her.

youre running in circles with your arguments.

it all boils down to that to beat vayne, you have to pick one of the few champions that outright beat her. not by outplaying her, or making correct choices in a fight with her. fights with vayne, unless shes played by someone actually terrible are pre determined.

do i play

champion A) who can beat her (that includes champions with long range direct target cc)

or champion B) who always loses to her?

this is the problem with vayne, and why she needs more changes than number tunings. she had number tunings in the past, and none of it ever got her into a spot that isnt complete irrelevance or completely broken.

and "wait for her to fuck up" is not actual counterplay or an argument for it. you could make that for every champion no matter how strong or weak. you could have made that argument for 60% winrate skarner back in s5.

all that power she has in her kit, especially in her w, needs justification by being tied to unreliability or other restrictions like its done with other champions.

D357R0Y3RApr 30, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:25:09.356+0000)

it all boils down to that to beat vayne, you have to pick one of the few champions that outright beat her. not by outplaying her, or

it's really funny how you abuse words

I'm glad you're getting downvoted, because if you think that "few champions beat her" then I shouldn't waste time

not outplaying her

more, more keep abusing words because outplaying is dodging skillshot mlg! abusing a weakness isn't outplaying for sure

ye $^ù

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 20199 votes

{quoted}

it's really funny how you abuse words

I'm glad you're getting downvoted, because if you think that "few champions beat her" then I shouldn't waste time

more, more keep abusing words because outplaying is dodging skillshot mlg! abusing a weakness isn't outplaying for sure

ye $^ù

fine. go ahead. have fun with a trashed version of vayne then rather than one that is functional and fair to fight at the same time. this is your problem. im fine if this version of her is just out of my games. if that means shes nerfed completely out of viability then so be it.

if she drops to shit tier then, i dont want to hear any complaints from you.

D357R0Y3RApr 30, 20195 votes

this is getting even more ridiculous just stop

I'm not a vayne main, never played her and do not think that she will be unplayable after those changes

Further, vayne was viable before riot buffed her because she wanted a flashy adc in pro, so vayne was not the problem but riot

and fair to fight

abusing words even more, we do not know limits do we

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 20198 votes

{quoted}

abusing words even more

youre not even making an argument here anymore. youre just complaining about how im wording mine as if that would invalidate them.

MordepoolApr 30, 201913 votes

Im sure the last thing vayne mains want is adding counterplay.

Sir SaltarinApr 30, 201911 votes

I'm not a Vayne main but I'm sure that the first thing that the anti adc dudebros of the Gameplay Boards wish is to make her unplayable.

Critmaster GarenApr 30, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:19:08.847+0000)

I'm not a Vayne main but I'm sure that the first thing that the anti adc dudebros of the Gameplay Boards wish is to make her unplayable.

i literally said what i want.

counterplay to her kit. thats not the same as wanting her unplayable.

it just means i have a chance to fight her even when i dont pick the "correct" champion.

this nerf will have one of two effects. 1.) it will make her garbage tier. 2.) none at all.

my guess its going to be option 1.

EedatMay 1, 20195 votes

There are always good and bad match ups and that will never ever change.

Yets4240May 1, 20194 votes

Way to entirely miss the fucking point. Are you guys even reading the whole comment, or are you just knee-jerk downvoting something flying completely above your head?

PB4UAMEMay 1, 20193 votes

Seriously, the number of strawmans in this thread is utterly astounding. Mostly in response to CMG too, interestingly enough.

EedatMay 1, 20196 votes

There is counterplay to her kit and its not just outrange her. Vayne top gets completely dumpstered by a quite a few melees. MonkeyKing Irelia Pantheon Yasuo Jax etc.

her E is a 20 second CD, gets maxed last, and she builds zero CDR. Anyone who can rengage and force an all-in during that time completely shits on her

If you haven't noticed by his name, he is most likely complaining that Vayne shits on Garen and there isn't anything Garen can do about it

MordepoolMay 1, 20193 votes

Unless you rework a stat check kit to have counterplay

EedatMay 1, 20194 votes

Vayne is not a stat check at all. She requires proper spacing and kiting. She does nit sit in one spot stat checking you to death

LTK KoRoMay 1, 20192 votes

if vayne rightclicks you a lot and sometimes tumble around then it's still statchecking

EedatMay 1, 20192 votes

It's absolutely not and ridiculous logic. By your logic, Azir is just a stat check because he just presses buttons and uses his mouse.

Abibyama IIMay 1, 20191 votes

Dealing damage means statcheck 😎

Sir SaltarinMay 1, 20191 votes

But, does Vayne take skill?

I think that I've asked this a long time ago but I never get a proper answer.

LTK KoRoMay 1, 20192 votes

i dont think anyone can deny she takes some skill tho. You can see that autofilled vayne will die in 0.5 sec in teamfights, right? But in duels and during sololaning there is very small difference between 5 and 100 games vayne.

I'd say that Vayne takes lots of skill when it comes to teamfighting and dealing with rangeds, but vs melees she's on autopilot basically

SaevumApr 30, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:19:08.847+0000)

I'm not a Vayne main but I'm sure that the first thing that the anti adc dudebros of the Gameplay Boards wish is to make her unplayable.

She is less of a tank buster but she can still blow up everything else at rank 3 ult. The exchange of power was compensated for burst. The affected champions will be other adcs, squishy supps like enchanters, mages (hell yea), assassins and skirmishers.

Wicked HunterMay 1, 20193 votes

And RITO listening to all those anti adc dudebros makes this company even more garbage. Imagine doing nerfs around all trolls/crybabies on boards instead of having a talk to pros/challenger players before making any changes. No wonder this game is dying.

Let s not forget that they buffed ADC because of the current state of the game. All games are way shorter than they used to be so ADC was irrelevant till late game which never came since games end at 25-30 mins and they are decided at min 10 most of the time.

RITO buffed ADC so they can have an impact before the game ends and now they nerf again just to realize: oh wait they re too weak they re unplayable, and then they buff 3 patches later. Also they buffed Vayne s W because they nerfed her Q hard so it cannot crit anymore when crit items were broken. Now they nerf her W but her Q still cannot crit (even tho crit items are balanced), they just gave some extra AD.

LTK KoRoMay 1, 20193 votes

yes, we want to make her unplayable until she'll get some kind of counterplay outside of "just burst her xd" or "just cc her xd"

Sir SaltarinMay 1, 20191 votes

The difference it's that I want her to be balanced.

That's why I've been saying that she should be nerfed and I'm glad that she's being nerfed.

You guys on the other hand want to remove her from the game and that's why you will never be satisfied, because the ones asking to delete Vayne are as geniuos as the ones asking to delete Yasuo.

LTK KoRoMay 1, 20192 votes

there's no difference. In the end we want her to be balanced too, because right now she's autowinning vs melees while being pretty weak vs range and that doesn't sounds like good balance. But don't tell me Vayne with zero changes to her kit can be balanced around both botlane and toplane.

Im fine with vayne existing and being a strong champion. I just dont want her to autowin every melee lane (and every melee duel after laning) because she got 2 self peel abilities and ridiculous dps.

Sir SaltarinMay 1, 20192 votes

because right now she's autowinning vs melees while being pretty weak vs range

Well it looks that like a champ with strenghts and weaknesses then.

It's like the Mage players on the Boards crying about Zed because he's good against their champs, you dislike a champ that is strong against the champs you play.

It's the same.

Critmaster GarenMay 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010001000000030000,timestamp=2019-05-01T10:07:48.962+0000)

The difference it's that I want her to be balanced.

That's why I've been saying that she should be nerfed and I'm glad that she's being nerfed.

You guys on the other hand want to remove her from the game and that's why you will never be satisfied, because the ones asking to delete Vayne are as geniuos as the ones asking to delete Yasuo.

a champion can be balanced and have kit inherent counterplay.

infact such a champion is much less binary towards counterpicking other champions and getting counterpicked, because even when he counterpicks his opponent, there is still variance around his kit inherent counterplay.

Darius counter picks Garen

because his kit is inherently more potent. but if i play the matchup well enough and dodge every q darius throws at me, evade his hook, and dont take long trades, i still have a chance at outtrading him and winning against him even at a disadvantage. those are things that are as well in my control as the darius player.

meanwhile a 0/10 vayne will beat Garen no matter what he does, simply because her kit is designed to win against him and there is no counterplay in her kit that could even the odds. the same is true for vayne against a lot of other champions.

Sir SaltarinMay 1, 20191 votes

And I can be 10/0 with MissFortune and a Yasuo that's 0/10 can nullify my teamfight with just windwall

You know what I do?

I ban him because I'm aware the he gigacounters my main but I will NEVER say (outside jokes) that he should be deleted/reworked just because I hate the way he is.

The champs that should be reworked are either the really outdated ones ( Mordekaiser Pantheon Quinn some of them) or the really problematic ones ( Aatrox Ryze Azir TahmKench )

SucctionMay 1, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:06:14.083+0000)

fixes her for the moment, until one day she inevitably gets get buffed back to what she is right now.

weve been here before. she flips between broken op tier and shit tier with buffs and nerfs like this.

how about some actual fundamental changes, like tieing her w to a mechanic with counterplay? like making her e not have a knockback unless the target connects with a wall?

anything that actually adds something to her kit that you as her opponent can outplay, instead of making you only win by outstatting her.

They downvoted him because he told the truth

MordepoolMay 1, 20194 votes

In a Society of lie's telling the truth becomes an act of revolution~ George Orwell 1984

Sir SaltarinMay 1, 20191 votes

We live in a society

Lil Homie bustaMay 1, 20195 votes

Why the downvote, he's right. THIS ALREADY HAPPENED BEFORE indeed, she gets nerfed, becomes shit, then gets buffed, becomes meta. It's a vicious cycle.

LexandApr 30, 201910 votes

Feels reasonable, good approach.

MordepoolApr 30, 20198 votes

Those are compensation buffs for an item nerf. Where are the actual nerfs

D357R0Y3RApr 30, 201913 votes

read again then

if you're still not understanding then take some fresh oxygen outside and come back

theChibiTinaMay 1, 20196 votes

I'm happy they nerfed the percent hp damage on W and early game Q reduction from R, but why did they buff her damage on Q and R. She needed nerfs, not balance changes (nerfs with compensation buffs in other areas).

SaevumApr 30, 20195 votes

So her rank 3 ult has a Nasus flavor now. AKA you either kill her fast or avoid her. And the avoid part i am not quite sure cause she can caught up with you while being stealth too.

Anime FizzMay 1, 20195 votes

Vaynes gonna be unplayable after this lol.

Crit vayne is already not viable and they completely killed the bork rageblade build (the only viable one).

SaiannaMay 1, 20195 votes

W is nerfed, or rather turned back to how it used to be, R Q reduction scales with level

And that's a nerf?

That is a fucking buff considering what else she gets lol

RagnaveilMay 1, 20193 votes

Rage change exists, gotta equate that.

SaiannaMay 1, 20193 votes

For as long as Rageblade keeps its phantom hits, she'll be still busted. But even without rageblade, she's still too strong and her Q-CD-reset while ultimate is on still doesn't allow anyone to actually fight her. For as long as she hits, there won't be enough of a time window to strike her.

Champion-wise it's not a nerf. It's Riot squirming around making sure it does look like a nerf. Something like "-3AD at lvl 18" kind of joke.

RagnaveilApr 30, 20194 votes

And they lowered the max health damage, making it less likely for her to demolish tanks in seconds and massacring squishes less likely. Since her Q doesnt crit anymore, i'd say she's gonna be in a much easier spot to be balanced, going back to the items she was designed to use. Now if only Riven got changes like these instead of the overall buff she gets out of her changes (she'll have Q up practically forever).

D357R0Y3RMay 1, 20193 votes

the Q being based on max ad is also better to balance her, because W max makes her quickly too strong in mid game

RagnaveilMay 1, 20192 votes

I feel like people are downvoting us because they still think she's gonna be overpowered with Rageblade, when its about to become the most nonviable item on her to rush after BotRK. Rageblade is simply gonna fill the % pen spot that hybrids need, like it should have.