Riot, Take Notice: Viktor's Problem Is A CORE Problem

Smitemuffin··8 votes·1,337 views

Viktor's problem is fact that he's in the role of "Mid-Range Sustained DPS Mage" while simultaneously blocking his ability to itemize for it. How? Simple.

The problem is his Hex Core.

Before anybody goes into full freakout mode, read to the bottom. What does a champ NEED to fill Viktor's role?

  1. High amounts of damage (AP, obviously)
  2. VERY low cooldowns or long-duration DOTs to deal steady damage
  3. All 3 defensive stats (Health, Magic Resistance and Armor) to survive sustained fights in mid range
  4. A reasonable path to keep up during laning so your damage isn't utterly irrelevant
  5. Most importantly, SUSTAIN. Health AND mana to keep alive and casting spells

Viktor currently only has 1, a little bit but not enough of 2, and he's alright on 4. But he has no realistic way of getting the rest because his core build was designed to have 5 CORE ITEMS. See?

  1. Hex Core - whether you want it or not, he's stuck with it
  2. Deathcap - virtually no mages outside of offtanks can get away with not having one.
  3. Void Staff - duh
  4. Boots - again, duh
  5. Lichbane - read his rework posts by devs, his Q was designed and balanced around having this item. And he MUST have it because he only has 2 basic spells that deal damage.

So that leaves you with 5 items, MAYBE half your CDR cap (if you robbed yourself of 15 magic penetration), no sustain of any sort and none of 3 defensive stats that are bare minimum necessities. Is it any wonder that Viktor is proving problematic?

This has forced Riot into the position of having no options beyond dialing his spell numbers up so he can brute force successes or dialing them down so he's just awful.

For example, they reduced the reliability of his E while buffing the damage because trade-offs? All that can do is make him feel frustratingly oppressive to his opponents on the few times his Death Ray lands properly and make him feel utterly worthless to the one playing him every other time.

How do we fix this? Easy. Give him a passive.

Wait, I forgot to mention something. VIKTOR DOESN'T HAVE AN ACTUAL PASSIVE. No, seriously. Viktor doesn't have a passive, he has an item. An item that he's forced to buy, taking up an item slot and completely worthless until you dump gold into it to give Viktor spells that aren't awful. Lets face it: only his E would be a decent spell on its own. His Q is a bit lacking, but his W and ult are just plain awful spells. Even augmented, his ult is pretty terrible. And the stats on this item are just plain awful until you gain a TON of levels. I give Riot full marks for the attempt, but it's a failed experiment.

Proposed Solution? Cut his augment into 3 (or 4), one for each spell, and make them each bind to items he has already bought, one augment per item.

  1. Death Ray augment must go to a Blasting Wand, Needlessly Large Rod, or an item built from one. Gives a touch of bonus AP, whether flat, % or level-scaling, I trust to Riot's judgement.

  2. Siphon augment (Turbocharge) must go to boots, aether wisp or some other item giving movement speed as a stat. Gives him speed on Q. You should consider giving hp/mana sustain because it should ACTUALLY siphon power. Heck, it could be a mini version of Trundle's Subjugate and give him a whole new dimension of gameplay.

  3. Gravity Field augment must go to a mana, mana regen or cooldown reduction item. Add roughly 10% CDR, 200-300 mana and 25-50% base mana regen depending on balance.

  4. I would say to keep the ult augment functioning as current. Hard to say because I think he needs a new ultimate.

NEW PASSIVE: Master of Techmathurgy - when Viktor is reduced to 0 hp, his mastery of the arcane keeps his mechanical body alive. His remaining mana pool functions as health, with incoming damage dealing the same % of max mana as it would to his max hp. While in this form, Viktor is slowed by 30%, gradually lose mana and his spells cost double

These changes would give players MORE options with Viktor while not significantly changing the bulk of his kit. Allowing more situational choice will let players resolve his core issues in their own ways, which is something many more than just Viktor players want. No augment forced on people. More thematic elements. This passive would give counterplay to divers without needing an instant stun. Players KNOW they need to be close to danger, so they could choose passing up a little damage for safety (and build for it) or they can wade in with lasers flying while yelling "MWAHAHAHA. The Glorious Evolution has COME!" (and build for it). But really, he needs a line when that passive pops.

So please, take notice guys. There is a lot to take away from this post. I apologize for the length and thank both of you who made it down here.

25 Comments

Karma Deified3 votes

I like that passive a lot.

Smitemuffin2 votes

<3

t4JxNr2gszz2 votes

Your idea for a new passive is cool!

Smitemuffin2 votes

Thanks!

Lovely Pants2 votes

I'm confused by your intentions here.

How does tying each of his augments to a specific item not then just force Viktor to buy a total of 3-4 core items with even less choice than he has currently if he wants to get the most out of his kit?

We've also tried the version of Viktor that has his augments stat tied. As you say, his Q and W feel rather lackluster without the augments, but they are still functional, so when given the option players just decided to shove everything they could into damage and ignore the utility/sustain tradeoffs for the most part.

I don't think adding an after-death passive is going to do what you want it to. The best way to play any champion is typically not to die, so unless the afterdeath effect is strong enough to eat into the champion's power budget it feels like little more than a gimmick to actually alter your choices around it. You're pretty much proposing to recreate Sion's passive on a ranged champion. Most Sion players will tell you that this is typically something they don't feel good about relying on. I don't see any thematic gains to be had there on a technological evolution champion.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Ah, you misunderstand. Its not tying the augments to a specific item, but to any one of a wide set of items.

Q augment options: Aether Wisp, Lichbane, Luden's Echo, Tier 1 or 2 boots

W augment options: Lichbane, Rod of Ages, Archangels Staff, Morellonomicon, Athenes Unholy Grail, etc.

E augment options: Blasting Wand, Needlessly Large Rod, Rod of Ages, Archangels, Liandrys Torment, Void Staff, Deathcap, Luden's Echo, Rylais, Abyssal, Zhonyas

Make sense now?

Smitemuffin1 votes

Ah, you misunderstand. Its not tying the augments to a specific item, but to any one of a wide set of items.

Q augment options: Aether Wisp, Lichbane, Luden's Echo, Tier 1 or 2 boots

W augment options: Lichbane, Rod of Ages, Archangels Staff, Morellonomicon, Athenes Unholy Grail, etc.

E augment options: Blasting Wand, Needlessly Large Rod, Rod of Ages, Archangels, Liandrys Torment, Void Staff, Deathcap, Luden's Echo, Rylais, Abyssal, Zhonyas

Make sense now?

If this added flexibility were in his kit, Viktor wouldn't need his numbers tuned so high. He would have a better pattern of gameplay than the current "one of us will instantly disintegrate" thing he does on both PBE and live.

As for the passive, I see two people already who disagree. Not counting myself, of course.

Lovely Pants1 votes

Hm, alright. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure if that really is all that different from the current hextech core in terms of staggering evolution choices more by eventual gold gain, but would have to calculate more deeply to see gameplay effects. I do believe the core idea is in need of some more iteration, personally.

Regarding the passive additon, whether the passive sounds cool to you, I still submit that it doesn't mean it works thematically with him or provides a good function for his kit. "Boring" or "useless" passives tend to be where players look to in order to add more excitement to a kit, but I caution you to consider that a straight up addition of power to his kit there means Viktor doesn't get that somewhere else. In a kit where you've already said you think the W and Ult are rather bad in their base form.

It is of course your right to weigh the opinions of others, but I think "sounds cool" is all you really have there as of yet.

Celeste Benal2 votes

Viktor's CORE PROBLEM. I see what you did there.

Bellows2 votes

Lol "viktors problem is a CORE problem",,,,

did you mean that to be a pun on his hextech core passive? or happy accident?

Smitemuffin1 votes

It was intended, as his problem is a problem with his core design which also happens to be his Hex Core

The Anagram King1 votes

I wouldn't support the removal of VIk's hex core. It's iconic to his character.

If anything, they should bring back the choice of 3 hex cores that he originally had, but balance them to each be kit-defining items. One for tanking, one for bursting and one for supporting - each core providing different benefits to Viktor's 4 abilities.

Smitemuffin1 votes

It's not a removal. The Hex Cores upgrade his items rather than being an item themselves.

You KNOW you want Turbocharged Robotic Sorcerers Shoes of Furor. I bet those babies even light up when you step

The Anagram King1 votes

I like the AP and Mana too much, I'm afraid. I was one of the fanboys pushing for the original hex core upgrade back when the community was all: "Let's make it a trinket!"

I also really like being able to upgrade 1 item, rather than having to build 3 seperate items to get my buffs.

Don't get me wrong, tying a passive in to items is a cool concept. But Vik could really benefit from having a special item that affects his kit. There's serious potential there. Especially down the line, whenever he gets his next "big update." I mean, having a hyper-item is an awesome passive... but I wish there were alternatives to pure AP Viktor. Like back in the oooold days...

Nostalgia Moment

Smitemuffin1 votes

But that's also in there. Each core is a mod to existing items that give you the stats you get from the hexcore. A little AP, some mana, etc. It just frees up an item slot

The Anagram King1 votes

No, I get what you're saying. But there's an inherent advantage to having one special item, than to customise meta items.

Ie: If Viktor puts all his bonus AP on deathcap and it becomes a problem, Vik's AP is nerfed. Same applies to CD bonuses on CD-granting items, or other fun things like that.

By tying the passive specifically to the Viktor passive - the Viktor item - we get leeway and can skew the numbers in our favour. Vik's item has better gold efficiency than any other item out there. This is because it is defined and static. It won't power creep unless AP and mana power creep. It's easy, tame - controllable.

Letting us buff whatever item we want makes things tricky. Who's to say that the passive won't be nerfed an item update or two, later? And then, who's to say it'll ever receive compensation buffs?

I've lived through the hellish nightmare of bad-Augment Viktor. Solcrushed fixed that. We should try to capitalise on his awesome; rather than put our faith in the balance team to keep our champion well-adjusted and efficient.

Smitemuffin1 votes

You're still missing the point: the buffs themselves are STATIC. Whether you put E augment on Deathcap, Void Staff, Zhonyas, whatever, the AP you get is the AP you get.

The Anagram King1 votes

Yes. But it won't be quite so role-defining. And it will be more susceptible to nerfs (you're getting 6 items, stat bonuses AND ability upgrades).

I suppose we could always throw the aftershock delay up to 2 seconds or something. :P

Smitemuffin2 votes

catches fire

Doctor Jarvis1 votes

"High amounts of damage (AP, obviously) VERY low cooldowns or long-duration DOTs to deal steady damage All 3 defensive stats (Health, Magic Resistance and Armor) to survive sustained fights in mid range A reasonable path to keep up during laning so your damage isn't utterly irrelevant Most importantly, SUSTAIN. Health AND mana to keep alive and casting spells"

You want a champion with everything. That's all Im reading here. You want a champ that can tank, dish it out and never STOPS dishing it out, and, while we're at it, give him a really great way to get through the early game to the mid-game you would make indomitable.

Smitemuffin2 votes

There's a chasm of difference between a tank and a champ that can survive being hit 3 times.

You know where I got that list of things a mid-range sustained DPS Mage must be able to do?

Marksmen. By listing everything a Marksmen has. Watch:

  1. Damage (AD)
  2. Attack speed (cooldown reduction for basic attacks), and those items give more damage via crit
  3. Mercurial Scimitar, Phantom Dancer, Death's Dance, Sterak's, Maw, Iceborne (for some champs)
  4. Lifesteal AND physical omni-heal from Death's Dance
  5. Most marksmen are independent of mana, but Essence Reaver gives infinite sustain of it to them anyway

And a Marksmen can have ALL FIVE of those things in 3 finished items plus their dorans blade. Make sense NOW?

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

I always saw him as a burst mage, he has that high AP item in his kit just for that purpose.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Nah, look at the up-front damage in his kit and then compare it to real burst mages. With his passive included, Viktor only has 3 damaging abilities and one is his ultimate (and THAT is mostly damage over time)

LeBlanc: 4 damaging spells totaling up to a 360% AP ratio, all but 50% of which is instant

Brand: FIVE damaging spells, plus an instant stun to land it all. Only his passive is DOT

Fizz: 4 spells

Ekko: 5

Lux: 4

Ziggs: 4-5 depending how you call his passive auto buff

Xerath: 4

Really only Orianna has 3, but she can do all of it in an instant.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

i mean, burst isn't about how many damaging spells you have, its about how hard your damaging spells hit when used in combination. The fact that Viktor gets so much AP through hexcore and deathcap means his spell rotation hurts. He's not Leblanc levels of burst by any means, but he can burst better than Ziggs or Xerath who are more repeated poke centered.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Needing all defensive stats in order to survive long enough to do champion's job isn't only a Viktor thing.

It's the very reason Diana is played as an assassin and not a bruiser. Because tanky AP itemization is so gargabe, it's better to go glass cannon and throw yourself in the middle of the enemy team, and hope to kill enough people for your death, to make a difference.

Say, I want to build Nashor, OK, but I need to survive to actually proc my passive, I'll get Rylai, oh, but it only gives me HP, Zhonya and Abyssal, to cover my resistance needs, now boots, but that's already 5 items, now I need Void to actually be able to kill anything, nevermind I don't have enough AP for it to make a difference.

Meanwhile you have an item like Black Cleaver that gives you stats comparable to Void Staff, Rylai and half of Nashor in one item slot, for a third of the price!

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