As someon who plays mostly immobile champions

HateDaddy··150 votes·10,627 views

This game isn't fun for me anymore. Period.

I enjoy a lot of immobile champions because they have a lot of unique features that separate them from other champions. From build paths to abilities, immobile champions feel more rewarding when played well. I feel like I did some cool shit as Nasus or Mordekaiser when I manage to flank from behind and separate the enemy team as Nasus with positioning and timing my rush. I feel awesome when I can successfully get an enemy ADC as my pet as Mordekaiser, which is actually hard as fuck to do. I feel awesome when I wait for the right moment as Olaf to pop ghost/ult and chain axes and dive an enemy carry. I feel awesome as Cho'Gath when I land a clutch rupture on someone by predicting where they'll jump to and feasting them to either kill them or force them out of the fight.

And that's why immobile champions like that are immobile. When played well and positioned properly, they have potentially game changing mechanics and features that can turn the tides of a fight. But that is slowly dwindling away if it hasn't alteady. As an immobile champion, you're late game fantasy that Riot loves to preach almost never exists. With spammable slows, spammable mobility, spammable cc on RANGED CHAMPIONS galore, I feel like half the time I'm just wasting time trying to play these champions. The risk I take for picking these champions doesn't really feel rewarding even when I perform well during their most exploitable times (lane phase mostly).

And then you get into other shit before a "late game fantasy" can even be realized. I love Mordekaiser, but I don't play him much anymore because it just feels pointless. So many junglers can show up to my lane and simply kill me by existing. Which I get that, he's immobile and he shoves, he has to have a weakness. But champions like Jarvan, Lee Sin, Vi, etc. make it to the point where they show up and you HAVE TO flash and thus, your lane is now over. Again, I fully understand this risk and that this is his counter play but taking this risk feels pointless because half the time, I get shut down in lane and the other half, when I do perform well and ward and keep gank free, I get cc'd once and instantly blow up.

It's gotten to the point where only ranged adcs and a select few AP carries can only have a late game fantasy. Champions like Nasus, Tryndamere, Olaf, etc., who you look at and think "God damn, this guy gets items and he's terrifying" are shut down by the push of a button with slows, random CC and then on top of that, if they manage to break through this, their target just blinks away like nothing. So why bother? Just split push, towers can't kite. But that strategy is fucking lame. I don't want to afk split push, bring 2-3 people up to stop me and depend on my team to cash in on their over commitment to stopping me. That's lame for me, that's lame for my team, that's lame for the enemy team and that's lame for the guy I have to lane against because he can basically never leave. But what choice do I have? I don't want to play whatever fotm overtuned, random cc full, random mobility filled garbage of an excuse designed champion comes out next, I want to play the champions I enjoy playing so I have to adapt. And I have to adapt because directly and indirectly, they've had their late game fantasy taken away.

Anything tha threatens the greatness of adcs and those select few ap mids/assassins late game gets instantly crushed with nerfs. To the point that you don't want your champions to become popular, you know what will happen if they do. Why can't ranged adcs have their late game fantasy punished? Why can't some of the mid assassins and mages who can carry have their late game punished? Scratch that, most of them will have it punished. Itemization by far continues to favor ranged adcs late game, mid game and even early game. Sure, other classes get s few items here and there but it's not enough.

And what I'm saying about this whole late game fantasy and the risk/reward of picking some of these immobile, supposedly godlike late game champions has so many layers of shit that fucks them over, I don't even know where to begin or where to end. Actually, it basically ends at "who's adc is better late game and which adc plays better late game." But that's only a fraction of it. There's so much shit that involves this, from shit like Lee Sin, to poor itemization, to defensive itemization blowing ass and having few variety (mostly MR), to random max health % dmg galore, to random cc on everything new, to random mobility on everything new, random slows galore and the kitchen sink. It doesn't end and it only continues to get worse.

I realize this is hardly a coherent post. But im just so fed up with feeling like I play extremely well on these champions only to get outperformed by other shit because they simply have more stuff and random power thrown into their kits. So in the end, the tl;dr of this entire rant is that this game isn't fun for me anymore. And I hate saying that because I love League of Legends, but everything the balance team, new champion design team and itemization team has done has legit shit on the champions I play while throwing them random insignificant bones here and there. Pick this apart and rage at me as you will, I really don't care. I'm just fed up.

174 Comments

Joe Dredd44 votes

That's a long ass wall of text m8 edit* Actually started reading to the that's lame part. Never have I read something truer. Half the time it's either split or lose.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

That's a long ass wall of text m8 edit* Actually started reading to the that's lame part. Never have I read something truer. Half the time it's either split or lose.

I'm sorry for the wall of text, I did my best to make it as readable as possible but it's mostly just a rant. I could go on for pages about all the shit that frustrates me because as I said, there's so many layers to this that its honestly impossible for me to know where to start and where to begin.

As for split pushing, I like it as a strategy to an extent. But when it's afk split pushing, both the person doing it and the person defending it have their in game choices robbed from them. The split pusher is doing it because he literally can't do anything else and the one fighting it can't leave or his inhib is gone by 20 minutes. Riot talks about people having choices but split pushers have no choice for the most part, they can't do anything else. And that is honestly fucking lame.

Electro5225 votes

I completely understand what you mean. I for one am a huge fan of both Nasus and Morde. Morgana was my first mained champion, and I still love her to this day.

However, even though that I am a fan of the low mobility champs as well, I have also taught myself how to play with some decently mobile champs as well. Diana is a champ that I can wreck the enemy team with, and although she is classified as a fighter, I play her more as an assassin. Since I have played her so much, I have learned to be patient with her, choose the right time and the right target to go in on. In fact, the last game I played with her, I impressed even myself. I let the tanks engage, soak up most of the damage and cc, then went onto the fed enemy Riven who probably didn't even notice I was on her until she was dead. We won the game after that fight.

This patience has transfered quite nicely over to the immobile champions. You can't get onto your opponents, so you have to wait for them to come to you, especially when playing Morde. You don't have to split push, you can push with your team, and if the enemy engages onto to you, you can then charge the backline and cause as much chaos as possible. The more patience you have, the more objectives you will take, and the more team fights you will win.

Try that kind of strategy, and you just may see yourself having a bit more fun as you dare your opponents to dive you in all chat. :D

Rebonack21 votes

What gets me is that when an immobile champion pops their head up on the competitive scene (hey there Koggy!) they get knee-jerk crushed back into the gutter while flashy, mobile champions that fill the same role continue running amok for months on end.

Clearly with all those displacement skills Riot can't pin them down long enough to nerf them.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

What gets me is that when an immobile champion pops there head up on the competitive scene (hey there Koggy!) they get knee-jerk crushed back into the gutter while flashy, mobile champions that fill the same role continue running amok for months on end.

Clearly with all those displacement skills Riot can't pin them down long enough to nerf them.

Well that comes down to Riots balancing approach, which is good. It's an approach that lets champions keep their strengths but enchances their weaknesses. For immobile champions, typically their immobility is their weakness. So when you enhance that weakness further, it does more damage to them than it would ever do to a mobile champion because aside from Kassadin, Riot almost never tones down mobility on a champion. Which could be good, it could be bad but perhaps they should really be careful with these nerfs to immobile champions and look for other ways to not punish them for being immobile. I highly doubt that will ever happen though.

junglerboy169 votes

I totally agree, except Riot is always so timid about actually nerfing those mobile champions at all (see Lucian's range nerf alongside a massive mobility buff, but in Riot's eyes, an overall nerf). mobility should come at the cost of damage, survivability, or CC. Having mobility AND one or more of those other attributes in abundance makes a champion too strong to be combatted well by any other champion unless they are all overloaded with junk.

Father Cthulhu2 votes

{quoted}

What gets me is that when an immobile champion pops there head up on the competitive scene (hey there Koggy!) they get knee-jerk crushed back into the gutter while flashy, mobile champions that fill the same role continue running amok for months on end.

Clearly with all those displacement skills Riot can't pin them down long enough to nerf them.

Well, this year at worlds, Kog'Maw was the only one to really shut down the reigning supreme Tristana. So I don't really think this holds true.

DefenderOfFaith14 votes

Newer champions like Reksai and Gnar are extremely safe in toplane with their mobility and pokes, although Nidalee spear + run away cougar mode despite all of her many changes has still made her quite a risk adverse champion. Although in a big massive team brawl, I'd rather have Mordekaiser than any of those three (mainly he does a lot of aoe damage and it goes all over the place). Add Amumu aoe to the roster, and it is going to be a wrecking day, provided your team will back them up. Of course a siege comp can spread out and pick them to pieces, so I suppose nothing is without counters.

There are some mechanics in league that are very powerful and stand above the others. Mobility cannot be mathematically "weighed" in the same way that "damage" can be calculated, because a lot of it depends on where you are going to and why. But in the hands of good player, the value of mobility is worth more than a player who uses mobility to just go anywhere for any reason. It is hard to say that someone snowballed because of their mobility or if the other side just fed. Even with the ambiguity though, it is a mecahnic I find cause for concern in champion power creep.

A more obvious mechanic is true damage (hello Ahri/Irelia). But I think the TD champions are scrutinized a bit more carefully in that the presence of counters still exist. Even still, they are quite in vogue.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Newer champions like Reksai and Gnar are extremely safe in toplane with their mobility and pokes, although Nidalee spear + run away cougar mode despite all of her many changes has still made her quite a risk adverse champion. Although in a big massive team brawl, I'd rather have Mordekaiser than any of those three (mainly he does a lot of aoe damage and it goes all over the place). Add Amumu aoe to the roster, and it is going to be a wrecking day, provided your team will back them up. Of course a siege comp can spread out and pick them to pieces, so I suppose nothing is without counters.

There are some mechanics in league that are very powerful and stand above the others. Mobility cannot be mathematically "weighed" in the same way that "damage" can be calculated, because a lot of it depends on where you are going to and why. But in the hands of good player, the value of mobility is worth more than a player who uses mobility to just go anywhere for any reason. It is hard to say that someone snowballed because of their mobility or if the other side just fed. Even with the ambiguity though, it is a mecahnic I find cause for concern in champion power creep.

A more obvious mechanic is true damage (hello Ahri/Irelia). But I think the TD champions are scrutinized a bit more carefully in that the presence of counters still exist. Even still, they are quite in vogue.

I don't disagree and I'm not saying every case of a mobile champion outperforming me is due to their mobility but after a certain point and extended periods of playing immobile champions, it sure feels like it. And even when logically you know that's not completely true, the frustration still remains.

And I think I'd rather have a rek'sai or Gnar on my team, specifically for mega Gnars disruption and damage and reksais disruption and global presence

AHeroNamedHawke13 votes

I think one of the largest contributors is the prevalence of slows on everything

They have no effect on dashes/blinks, but completely crush any MS boost

It'd be a nightmare to code but some method of shortening dash range with CC could even it out

That or just nerfing slows in general/changing them to shorter duration snares

Kaisha1 votes

How would it be a nightmare code? You multiply the dash distance or vector with the CC modifier. Its literally nothing more than a multiply.

AHeroNamedHawke4 votes

{quoted}

How would it be a nightmare code? You multiply the dash distance or vector with the CC modifier. Its literally nothing more than a multiply.

If league wasn't an abomination already, yes it would be easy

But with how buggy their shit is I wouldn't be surprised if a simple sounding change like this would be problematic

And in any case it still doesn't address blinks

Kaisha3 votes

Sure it does, you multiply your blink distance by the CC modifier. That then forms the maximum distance your allowed to blink (ie. the blink radius).

Now granted, league devs would probably mess it up, but that's not because its hard to do.

DrCyanide3 votes

{quoted}

How would it be a nightmare code? You multiply the dash distance or vector with the CC modifier. Its literally nothing more than a multiply.

Don't know, but I'm certain Riot has a convoluted reason for why it couldn't be done.

I'm still scratching my head at why we don't have updated lore in the game or on the website anywhere. Shouldn't be that hard to code, but its been over three months since that was suppose to exist.

TheKingDodo9 votes

Just increase MS of all non-dash champs/non-long range mage/non-adc to udyr max bear stance lvl? :/ no idea what we'd do with udyr to compensate doe :/

Kappa

HateDaddy31 votes

{quoted}

Just increase MS of all non-dash champs/non-long range mage/non-adc to udyr max bear stance lvl? :/ no idea what we'd do with udyr to compensate doe :/

Kappa

Well there's honestly no reason for champions like Lee Sin and Riven to have 350 MS but me saying this will just have the Lee Sin fanboys downvote spam me, which they all do honestly. Gold V Lee Sin heros to the rescue, don't worry!

Centuros7 votes

I dunno, it's awesome when you kite a Hecarim halfway across the map as Vel'Koz.

asktiks6 votes

well shit, very articulated and to the point argument op I agree with you completely I myself have been playing league since ...forever..i remember the atmas dominance of champs like nasus and dinger midlane dominance

I too hate the current meta where most games are decided before anyone is even level 13 focus or bust , and its sickening

at least we got aram and dominion wich are a welcome reprieve until they start toning down damage across the board..

this kind of thing happened in WOW , where damage just scaled so ridiculously much that they had to basically double health bonuses across the board and start making new items with ridiculous amount of hp to counter the absurd amount of damage players where having

tank itemization on this game right now is shit, you can stack armor and defenses up the wazoo but with amount of cc it doesn't matter if you wanna "tank dmg" for your team, you wil just get chain CCd until they wipe out your team and ignore you since you do crap dmg as a tank if you itemize for it...and as you say...one has got to wonder what is the fucking point when I can just pick irelia jungle or any BS ad carry and win the game ?

hell I had a 3 adc game the other day, guess who won? its stupid I know a lot of people don't like dota 2 much but there every champ is viable , and itemization there is not reduced to items with stats on it and that's it, you actually have to counter build and use your actives if you wanna survive , its more about reacting and adapting than it is about picking the right champ, and truth be told , even when I lose there , it doesn't feel as fucking frustrating as losing here because I know if I lost its because we got outplayed not outpicked

Respakt3 votes

Dota also has a lot of items to help counter damage items and mobile champs. Forcestaf is a low priced item that pushes you, a teammate or an enemy 600 in the direction they are facing, great escape for immobile heroes or for saving your immobile teammates. Blink is like super long ranged flash also useful for escaping, re positioning instantly. Other defensive items are also very strong. Ghost scepter has an active that makes the user immune to physical damage for 4 sec but preventing the user from being able to right click. Ghost scepter is good against the ADC that jump you, you just ghostscepter and watch your team hopefully kill them. All of these items are kinda inexpensive and are both affordable and very useful to some of the most immobile and squishy heroes, supports. Immobile heroes can use gold to buy some mobilityt not all heroes are mobile but the all have an equal opportunity to buy mobility items. Prehaps a mobilty item/items would allow immobile hero to be able to gain some mobility. They mobility items would have to give low stats to discourage mobility champs from buying it. It creates more choice in the game. For example, Talon could buy a mobility item to have an escape to be able to safely kill a back line champ but he would have to decide if sacrificing damage would be worth it or not.

NeoScout5 votes

I feel you bro, I don't know what Riot is thinking.

Yfrappefort5 votes

Agreed. The mobility creep is getting more and more oppressive for immobile champions to the point you can't play them without gimping your team. Champions kit today are so overloaded it's just not fair.

To compare, I'll take Teemo who was among the first 40 champions, so 2009, and Gnar who was released in 2014.

Teemo

  • Good harass via poison during laning
  • Move around the map quickly, but it disabled when hit by champions
  • Blind protect against AA
  • Mushrooms give decent additional map coverage and damage/slow

but then...

  • Extremely squishy
  • Does not scale very well with levels (main poison damage cap at level 9)
  • Low AA range hurt him later in the game
  • Lack hard CC
  • Goes oom quickly

Gnar

Mini Gnar alone brings

  • Poke that can shred anyone thanks to % health damage
  • Quick moving around the map
  • Spammable slow if catching boomerang
  • High safety and chasing potential thanks to quick jump and MS boost that synergize with his HP shred
  • Manaless

Already, he does almost anything Teemo does better, but it does not end here since Gnar also...

  • Scale extremely well into late game thanks to Mega Gnar and Mini Gnar AA range reaching Teemo's by level 18
  • Can become insanely tanky
  • Got loads of hard CC in addition to soft CC
  • High base damage means he can build tanky and still do loads of damage

His only weakness is that he can't control his transformation, but it's still no excuse to give a champion such an overloaded kit.

It also happens that the champions I like to play (Teemo , Brand , Nautilus , Pantheon and Garen) are all immobile (well ok, Pant can go in, but not out) and I find it frustrating that I get "outkit" rather then "outskilled".

How the fuck am I supposed to beat Zed as Brand?

How the hell am I supposed to survive Gnar as Garen?

Riot may say that "hard counter" do not exist, but when you look at this, it's just not true.

So yeah, mobility and overloaded kit are really getting out of control.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

you play Teemo? i hate you now.

secretly +1 because you're right.

CursedByLight4 votes

Soft cc and movement speed have become increasingly irrelevant with releases of champions that have dashes.

I feel the same way with how the META has become. You don't get to have true fun with mage champs anymore because assassins that don't even have to rely on having movement speed because they have a dash, leap, blink, etc. and can close that gap without buying tier 2 boots, and can kill you quickly because they opted for damage instead of those boots, because they can. The META has become a lot less reliant on movement speed, and a lot more reliant on whether you have a dash or not. The last immobile champ that was released was Vel'Koz. Vel'koz has a good amount of slows and a decent knockup. Though soft cc is increasingly becoming less and less reliable, as movement speed is becoming less and less impactful. With the release of champions like Rek'Sai, slows have become almost useless for champs that have to peel. Peeling has become hard cc or no cc. Slows in general have suffered from many champ releases. Rek'Sai can easily escape or kill all squishies if all the champ has to offer is a slow. For instance Volibear, Skarner if his ultimate is down, and many other champions especially including many of the mages that rely on slows. Please consider this more with the champions to come, because it is shifting to how fast you can move while doing the most damage.

LuckyReden4 votes

This couldn't be more true. I was playing a game yesterday as Kalista against a team of Caitlynn, Brand, Morgana, Warwick, and Nasus. I managed to get a 1v5 penta kill against them after they burned WW ult and the little cc they had on my Zed. It was then that it hit me just how strong her passive was. And sure I was pretty fed, but theres still no reason I should be able to kite around 5 members of there team and kill everyone of them.

Sloppy Ninja4 votes

Rito just doesn't seem to understand that mobile champions NEED to do less damage because they're taking barely any risk when they go in. riot favors highly mobile ultradamage assassins way to much so that they can have their ebin #LCSBIGPLAYS. They say 'oh, we make assassins squishy to balance for their damage' but then give them stupid shit such as:

Fizz - Stupid high mobility, and invincibility as a mechanic is cancerous and the only counter play is to basically just not exist, because unless you've got mobility, there's no way you're catching up to him while it's on cool down.

Zed One of the most powerful escapes in the game, and again has invincibility (sort of) during his ult.

Akali A stealth cloak that basically unless your red trinket is off cooldown or you've got an AOE you can do nothing about, and a highly mobile ult

MasterYi Untargetable during his LONG ASS Qs

Katarina enough said

Leblanc HI, I just took off half your health bar instantly, BYE, I'm gone half a second later

chide da jungler3 votes

Riot 2015: all new champions will have utility, mobility and a knockup CC cause everyone loves that crap.

Quinzac3 votes

Thank You! Thank you! THANK YOU!

A few weeks after hitting level 30, I noticed a champion that I thought had a Kick -ass ultimate and just looked cool. It was Mordekaiser. I immediately bought him and thought he was one of the most fun champions I had played so far. As I kept on playing him, the more I loved him, I even bought two skins for him! (Infernal & Lord). One day I realized something while playing that didn't really hit me though. I can't remember but it was either a during a gank or during a team fight.

HE HAS NO MOBILITY AT ALL. He has no quick escape, he has slow run speed, he is a walking target.

I do not understand what riot has against Mordekasier and champs like him, but it baffles me they they allow so many unique champions to be forced under these Meta champions by Nerfing these champions, creating champions that do what the Mobile-lacking champions do but better, and creating champions that can absolutely CC and Destroy these champions with no ease at all.

I really enjoy Mordekaiser, but I eventually stopped playing him because having Flash as my only escape, having to turret hug because pushing would result in my gankage, and having to get in range to kill an ADC who can use their Ult to Push me all the way back while I'm CC'd or Jump, Across team fight, just became too much.

Hungrymidget3 votes

Has Riot ever considered adding a Port Key(From Dota or HoN) item that is restricted to these immobile champs? I agree 100% with this post because mobility is clearly the strongest in this game. Many champs simply cannot compete at a high level with the likes of those who dash all over the place. With the addition of a Port Key item(or enchant on boots or something) these champions have a chance to be brought back into the game. The lack of diversity is strongly killing my interest in this game and I believe many feel the same.

kcStranger2 votes

This is actually a pretty cool idea that wouldn't require major champion reworks, imo.

360D3GR3SS2 votes

So what is your solution? Remove gap closers so that immobile champions can reign? No matter how RIOT balances there will always be types of champions that rise above others.

HateDaddy14 votes

{quoted}

So what is your solution? Remove gap closers so that immobile champions can reign? No matter how RIOT balances there will always be types of champions that rise above others.

There is no solution, it's probably too far gone at this point. Wait until they rework everything immobile to the shit they're releasing now.

Lord Dusteon4 votes

{quoted}

There is no solution, it's probably too far gone at this point. Wait until they rework everything immobile to the shit they're releasing now.

I just wish Riot made immobile champions have actual strengths vs moblie champions.

Narasimha3 votes

Immobile =/= weak

Examples include but are not limited to: Annie, Darius, Karthus, Malzahar, Pantheon, Sion, Swain, Xerath, Zyra

Every champion has strengths and weakness (except maybe Zed). You just have to actually look for them.

HateDaddy7 votes

{quoted}

Immobile =/= weak

Examples include but are not limited to: Annie, Darius, Karthus, Malzahar, Pantheon, Sion, Swain, Xerath, Zyra

Every champion has strengths and weakness (except maybe Zed). You just have to actually look for them.

Darius is not strong lol, he's good in lane and that's it. Pantheon isn't exactly immobile considering his ult and point and click gap closing stun. Sion has a lot of CC and his ult is a mobility tool, I'd say new sion is fantastic design. Annie is only strong because of range and absurd burst and CC. I wouldn't consider Karthus that strong, definitely not weak. But he has a global ult and does a shit on of both aoe damage and ranged single target damage. Malzahar sucks outside of lane. Swain, like Karthus, looks to get in the middle of a team with powerful aoe and single target damage. All of it aside from his ult is ranged. Xerath is ranged, all of his abilities are ranged. Are you not seeing a pattern here? Immobile range and being strong doesn't mean immobile melees are strong. I looked hard, and all of your "immobile strong champions" are ranged aside from 3, 2 of which aren't exactly what I'd consider immobile and one of them was a terrible example.

ragequix7 votes

The solution is that every immobile champion needs built in CC. If you can't dash or use a movespeed steroid then you should have a slow or stun skill. Period.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

The solution is that every immobile champion needs built in CC. If you can't dash or use a movespeed steroid then you should have a slow or stun skill. Period.

Nasus has a slow, probably the best slow in the game. Aside from 1v1 situations, how much does that really help him? It's more the just giving immobiles something, at this point you'd have to overload them with everything and immobile champions usually have a unique feature or strength and that would just make them absurd.

Baron of Bread5 votes

I really don't want to see the no mobility guys getting cc since I like the feel of Morde (being "I can't run, so I will just have to kill you"). Still, it would be nice to see them get a boost.

Specifically, I think some move speed changes would be appropriate. Not necessarily built into abilities, just (for example) bumping Morde from a 340 to a 350 and taking some of the extra mobile champions like Lee Sin from 350 to 340. Now a Morde can walk around for the surprise flank and Lee Sin might need to rely on his mobility to get places on time. For Nasus giving him a bit of a speed boost in his ult like Ryze has might work and keep his feel.

I want to see these guys be relevant, but I don't want it to feel like the idea of the champion was changed.

Snowplosion2 votes

This kinda seems more like a couple peoples personal problems than a communities... I don't know there are plenty of champions who are still pretty good late game. Most I know: Alistar Corki Draven Jax Jinx KogMaw Nasus Nidalee Quinn Shaco Thresh Tristana Udyr Vayne Vi Vladimir XinZhao Yasuo Ziggs Chogath . Take your pick.

HeadHonchkrow2 votes

Shaco ?

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Ever seen an AD Shaco with IE, Hydra, and Ghostblade?

He can 2 shot any carry with his clone.

HateDaddy13 votes

{quoted}

Ever seen an AD Shaco with IE, Hydra, and Ghostblade?

He can 2 shot any carry with his clone.

What does that have to do with anything? He's not an immobile melee lol

LupusNox18 votes

Alistar Best defensive boost in game, CC machine Corki Tristana Quinn Vayne Mobility and range. Also self peel Jinx KogMaw Huge range and damage. Like 800 plus range. Draven Range/self peel/huge damage. And hes DRAAAAAVEN Nidalee Did you just call her immobile.... Shaco Gives me nightmares when splitpushing Ziggs AoE ranged Yasuo Free stats up the ass, AoE CC that can #rek your team Vi 2 dashes, free tankiness, immune to CC for one of them

The only champs who really fit into the OPs line of champs are: Chogath Nasus Udyr because they lack ability to get to the backline without taking a fuckload of damage. Cho can semi make up for this by providing some of the best peel in the game while being a meatshield so big he takes up half the screen.

If your against any sort of coordinated team in silver or higher, it doesnt matter how fed you get on Nasus or Udyr or others like them, their team can CC you and take you down before you even reach your target, at which point, the target just flashes/dashes/troll poles away.

LupusNox10 votes

And defensive items are trash

There are almost 0 defensive items that are gold efficient on stats alone, whereas every single offensive item outside of LW/VS is gold efficient without its passive. And they get nice juicy passives too, like 50% crit damage, 30% more AP, 20% LS, etc.

Defensive items get things like 15% reduced AS. Health regen OUT OF COMBAT. etc. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO FOR A DEFENSIVE DEATHCAP????? How many Teemo's I WOULD KILL???

Captain Aishi2 votes

I miss leviathan

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

How many Teemo's I WOULD KILL???

You're supposed to kill Teemo for the joy it brings the world, not something as base as material gain. You call yourself a true believer?!

JameciBang1 votes

Ppl play those poking mobile ranged champs because of Nasus/Darius.

Nausicäa 1 votes

If you 'love Morde' then you like bad champion design. Hes not bad because hes immobile hes bad because hes poorly designed and has a kit thats not cohesive.

HateDaddy15 votes

{quoted}

If you 'love Morde' then you like bad champion design. Hes not bad because hes immobile hes bad because hes poorly designed and has a kit thats not cohesive.

I love morde because his ult is cool as fuck and he's a giant armor wearing guitar shredder who carries a fucking giant mace. Believe it or not, in the not too distant past, a lot of us enjoyed champions and became committed to maining them because of their character design and lore/story, not because of what random lcs big play rko outta nowhere overloaded design that caters to cod type players type champion riot could release next.

juaumzitus1 votes

I don't think people realise yet how much carries were nerfed.

Item costs, utility, damage, remember when they removed 8% of PD's move speed? Basically everything a carry builds is nerfed every month or so while bruisers and fighters get reduced price on Triforce, more rewarding banshee (if you think 40s is too much, it used to be almost 2 minutes), better item pathings, blade of the ruined king, maw, and constant skill buffs.

The items i listed are so good, so much better than old carry items that carries started building them, pretty much like how Vlad used to build the old ap jungler item.

The game is being shaped more and more against carries, that is why carries with dashes and blinks are so popular, because there is no other way to escape a bruiser coming to rape you.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

I don't think people realise yet how much carries were nerfed.

Item costs, utility, damage, remember when they removed 8% of PD's move speed? Basically everything a carry builds is nerfed every month or so while bruisers and fighters get reduced price on Triforce, more rewarding banshee (if you think 40s is too much, it used to be almost 2 minutes), better item pathings, blade of the ruined king, maw, and constant skill buffs.

The items i listed are so good, so much better than old carry items that carries started building them, pretty much like how Vlad used to build the old ap jungler item.

The game is being shaped more and more against carries, that is why carries with dashes and blinks are so popular, because there is no other way to escape a bruiser coming to rape you.

Half of the items you claim are "bruiser items" are abused way more than carries. name bruiser items that are good? Hexdrinker/maw is good, trinity is not a bruiser item, it's an item that caters to every class. Black cleaver isn't a bruiser item, it's an item that caters to every AD class. Ghostblade, which WAS a bruiser item got specifically buffed for ADCs. Still, it's become an item good on all AD classes.

I'll name bruiser items that you can look at and think it offers what a bruiser wants: durability, damage and a passive that benefits them.

Frozen Mallet: garbage. Overpriced, terrible build path Wits end: garbage, overpriced and terrible build path Arams: garbage. Removed. Hexdrinker/maw: one of a few only good items you could consider for bruisers Hydra: melee item, awesome and honestly overpowered as shit on people who can use it well, but it's the only good true melee item. Iceborn Guantlet: it's better on ranged champions than it is melee champions

So what's your point? Offensive bruiser items suck. Defensive items aren't great, especially MR itemization for tanks. Righteous Glory is amazing but it's pure health and random regen which barely does anything for team fights. And the items you claim are "bruiser items" like trinity and blade have been nerfed because of ranged adcs, not bruisers. And something else to consider here, if adc itemization is such shit, explain how they are still the best class? Maybe both adcs and their itemization is overpowered as shit.

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